Merry Christmas
Posted on December 18th, 2004 by catalyst into the Seasonal categoryI am going out tonight. I have a Christmas Party to attend, and I plan on celebrating by emulating Christ’s first miracle. If I am silent tomorrow, you know the reason why.
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December 18th, 2004 at 7:47 pm
This is the first time I’ve checked out the famous new blog. I appreciate the satire, and I’ll make a point to say hi now and again.
I thought this was an interesting excerpt from a book I’m reading right now:
“The false security that tempts those known for virtue leads them to make their own tenets the standard for others. This is what happens when people begin to see themselves as good. Their standards become absolute standards of morality. Nonconformity becomes an evil rather than a disjunction and thus subject to the use of power. Efforts are made to for community by eliminating nonconformity in this realm. Some conservative Protestant schools have combined a commitment to the authority of Scripture in matters of faith and conduct with legalistic moral codes. In certain situations, students effectively challenged the biblical grounds for prohibitions such as the one against alcohol. The response to them by the administration was not on the grounds of biblical arguments by that these rules are necessary for forming the kind of community that they want. In effect, the transcending biblical grounds were abandoned in favor of the moral preferences of the administration and trustees. That these provide the best basis for community was regarded beyond argumentation.” (Stephen Mott “Christian Perspective on Political Thought”, 39)
-Diotrephes
December 18th, 2004 at 10:14 pm
just some thoughts from a pilgrim. the word is the authority, not emotions on either side, that being said let the satire fly. noble bereans listened to Paul and searched the scriptures to find out whether what he said was true, they were commende for doing so. but today we have those in our city who are greater than paul . i have never heard of it but i am sure that CB pastors commend and and applaud those who biblically question what is said, think criticaly, and say do you really beleive what your saying? this must happen quite frequently and paul would be proud. moving on may lanny hubbard, prosper and be in good health ( seriously mad props to lanny) God forbid anything happen to that guy , where would questions of dotrine be passed to , if cloning becomes legal i vote lanny to be first on the list, make ten of the guy to replace leadership at the domes. got to wrap this up resistance is not futile . war cloning , war reading your bible and thinking, war God and His glory first and man and his need second, war bearean revival at CB, this is pilgrim I am out.
December 18th, 2004 at 10:23 pm
the only difference between political correctness and religious correctness is the terminology … they are both anti-christ
and catalyst … hypocrisy of others doesn’t justify personal disobedience …”be not drunk with the first miracle but be filled with the spirit”
December 18th, 2004 at 10:49 pm
Dear older wiser. Was the author actually saying not to be drunk with wine, or was he simply saying why would you want that when you could have something better?
If alcohol is so bad, why isn’t there more direct and more voluminous teachings in the Bible against it?
Does it really matter that much?
I suppose that drinking too much can cause problems for a person or even destroy them and their loved ones if used to excess, but can’t many other things as well? i.e. eating, lack of exercise. What about good things? Could they not also damage and even destroy a person and or their family when done to excess? i.e. praying, reading the Bible, tithing/giving.
Could not anything out of balance cause excessive damage to other areas of ones life?
So why is alcohol such a hot button? Is it truly evil? Is it simply cultural? Is the controversy left over tension from prohibition?
Why do so many people feel such an intense need to control other people, or at least get others to agree with their own opinions?
I suggest that it is wise to consider the thoughts/accusations of others, and sincerely analyze the validity of ones own opinions before dismissing the opinions of a perceived opponent or enemy.
A wise man once said, “Many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices.”
December 18th, 2004 at 10:57 pm
Oh yeah, I almost forgot. Are you suggesting that it is OK to have some wine, but not too much? Did not the guest remark with surprise to the host that he had saved the best wine to the end when it was typically offered at the beginning of the party? Why do you suppose that is? Is it not reasonable to think that it was the practice of offering lower quality of wine later in the party because by then, people had had enough to drink that they could not tell the difference? So why did Jesus make more wine at the end of the party? Did he not think that the guests had already had enough to drink? Do you not think that there were many drunk people there?
December 19th, 2004 at 12:25 am
It is ridiculous to assert that Jesus, or anyone in the NT would have modern fundamentalist beliefs about wine- it was a staple of their society. Further, drunkenness is not extradited from Christian ethics based upon the intrinsic experience of “being drunk”, the issue which the NT, and OT authors were worried about was what followed- debauchery. The effects of alcohol, as we all know, often times hurt people- when people are really drunk. Naturally we must beware of bifurcating the effects of an action and the action itself, but we must acknowledge that this dynamic tension was in the minds of the authors of the NT. Hence to read their prohibitions against drunkenness (be not drunk with wine, be filled with the holy spirit- eph. 5.18) with the lens of 20th century fundamentalism we miss the dynamic tension already resident within the text’s world.
The object of the text (being filled with the holy spirit) is also confused in many evangelical-Pentecostal churches today. In the NT it was very much about the community, being filled with the HS for the community. In contrast drunkenness is an existential-escapist experience [ironically similar to spiritual meetings at unsaid churches] whereas HS filling involves benefiting the community. Again to read the text with our 20th C.F. lenses we betray the heart of the passage.
The above assertion by Mott claims that any community which sees itself as good inevitably posits its own standard above that found in the narrative of the Scripture. Perhaps the problem isn’t correct understanding of Jn. 2/ eph 5 but sinfulness, humility, and grace?
-Diotrephes
December 19th, 2004 at 7:05 am
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December 19th, 2004 at 7:15 am
Father your children are squabbling and I ask you to bless and love us into conformity with Christ because it is your goodness that leads us to repentance.
Thank you Diotrephes, I stand enlightened and challenged.
I think Mott nailed the problem on the head.
Re: fundamentalist values…the Father seeks those who will worship Him in Spirit(living Word of God) and in truth(written Word of God). A core fundamentalist value is that the bible is authoritative in our lives …we squabble over the interpretation. I love you LORD.
An oxymoron and great blog name: fundamentalush.
December 19th, 2004 at 9:40 am
Dear Diotrephes,
Bifurcating Bifurschmating