6 Comments To This Post

1. forever an idealist said:    
   December 23rd, 2004 at 8:31 pm

   Hey Bloggers,

   Where to begin…

   You guys are hilarious–and I’m not being sarcastic.

   As I said before, I’ve been frustrated at church before, too. So although I haven’t been around CBC to see for myself how things are, I can relate to your feeling of frustration.

   But can I make some comments and question the way you are dealing with it? (Forgive the lenth.)

   We are told to be holy, and hopefully we will strive to be holy. But all of us will occasionaly make mistakes. What do we do when we make mistakes? What do we do when other people make mistakes and harm us or those we love? Since I don’t attend CBC, I am not in the position to comment intelligently on the concerns of many of the bloggers here. Let’s assume though, for the sake of discussion, that every charge is entirely accurate. What then should be done?

   Jesus taught, “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who despitefully use you and persecute you, so that you may become sons of your Father in heaven…” (Matt. 5:43-45) Even if you have been persecuted, we are commanded to love our persecutors. If it was always easy to follow the teachings of Christ, being a disciple wouldn’t be that big a deal. (And there would be more of them.) But being a disciple costs. You have to love them.

   Some excerpts about the nature of love from 1 Cor. 13:

   Love is patient, Love is kind…Love is not rude. Love does not count up wrongs that have been done…Love quietly covers all things..endures all things.

   You must love them, and if you love them, your instinct will be to cover them and work out your concerns privately. I’m sure you intentions are good. And believe me, I sympathize. I too had a very difficult time at a church I once attended. But let’s face it. This forum is not going to be a catalyst for change at CBC. It will stir things up, though. And then Willamette Week gets wind of it, publishes an article, and the Name of Christ gets dragged through the mud. The average person who doesn’t yet know the Lord won’t appreciate the finer points of the debate. All they see is Christians who are supposed to love each other fighting in public, and a church with a high profile called into question. How will this help the name of God? How will it extend the Kingdom? Jesus prayed (John 17:23) that we would be completely one. Only when the world saw that we were one would it know that Jesus was truly sent from the Father. We can’t bring a reproach on the Name of Christ.

   Do people misuse some Scriptures when it comes to giving? Sure. Again, I am not at CBC, so how can I say? But remember that while Jesus talked a lot about character and spiritual disciplines, he also _did_ speak a _lot_ about money. In fact, he said that where your treasure was, there would your heart be also.

   As Olderwiserha pointed out, the Church is the Bride of Christ. It is cliche that you can insult a man, and get away with it, but if you insult his wife–especiallly in public–look out. I would be _very_ cautious about railing against any church publicly.

   There is another important principle to consider. God uses authority structures. We need to be careful to respect that. Even if you don’t respect the person in the office, at least respect the office that God made, the decision He made to fill the office, and the God behind the office.

   There is a great book–”Tale of Three Kings.” Basically, it’s about Saul, David, and Absalom. Probably every Christian will at some point have a conflict with authority. The question isn’t, “Will you,” the question is, “How will you handle it when you do?” When you find yourself there, you had better be sure that you are a David–that the leader really is wrong, but you decide to conduct yourself righteously anyway. You will not “touch the Lord’s anointed”–even when you find it in your power to harm them. And you better make sure that you are not an Absalom, rebelliously seducing the hearts of the people away from God’s appointed leader.

   Again, I sympathize with your frustration, and admire your passion to see things done rightly. But please don’t make the mistake of going about it the wrong way. It couldn’t please God, you’ll just get bitter, and you’ll never achieve your stated goal of changing things this way.

   God bless you all.

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2. Mike said:    
   December 23rd, 2004 at 9:07 pm

   too bad, I’m not Spanish.

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3. catalyst said:    
   December 24th, 2004 at 7:16 am

   Idealist:

   Thank you for your comments. And I agree completely, that this blog is not likely going to change a thing.

   However, you made one statement which I simply disagree with. “I would be _very_ cautious about railing against any church publicly.”

   Really? Why? Do you think God is going to punish me? Because I don’t.

   If the church is the Bride of Christ, then the bride is having an affair with a guy called “money”.

   And here is the Lord’s likely response. Hosea 1:2-5.

   When the LORD began to speak through Hosea, the LORD said to him, “Go, take to yourself an adulterous wife and children of unfaithfulness, because the land is guilty of the vilest adultery in departing from the LORD .”

   So he married Gomer daughter of Diblaim, and she conceived and bore him a son.

   Then the LORD said to Hosea, “Call him Jezreel, because I will soon punish the house of Jehu for the massacre at Jezreel, and I will put an end to the kingdom of Israel.

   In that day I will break Israel’s bow in the Valley of Jezreel.”

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4. catalyst said:    
   December 24th, 2004 at 7:22 am

   I guess I also want to add, that I don’t have a clue what God is going to do. He’s God, he can do whatever he wants.

   I imagine, he is much more concerned with the Aids crisis in Africa, or the genocide of the Sudanese people.

   While the church is buying plasma screen tv’s and cool lighting systems, there are hundreds of Portland street kids sleeping on the street.

   So, no, I do not feel badly about what I’m doing. I may not be coming at this from the right place, but my message is still true.

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5. A.C.T.I.O.N. said:    
   December 24th, 2004 at 9:20 am

   “Things are more like they are now than they ever were before.”

   -Former U.S. President Dwight D. Eisenhower

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6. Reformed Arch Bishop said:    
   December 24th, 2004 at 11:45 am

   Action,
   One of my fav’s

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