Tithe…or else?
Posted on February 16th, 2005 by Reformed Pope into the Tithe categoryWhat do you think about this…..
Brian9000 said…
“Anonymous said…The good news is, even though it isn’t taught or encourage to give anonymously, we can.”
Unfortunately this is not true at CBC. I’ve always felt strange about taking a tax deduction for tithing, and having to use a tracking number on my envelopes. It took more work, but I would literally go to the bank and withdraw the exact amount for my tithe, (plus a little tip added on for my “offering”) and put it in the felt sack as cash.
Unfortunately I was an employee of CBC at the time, and after a couple months of this I got called on the carpet. It turns out that according to the Member Tithing Average printout sitting on the office administrators desk, I wasn’t making the minimum number of payments according to the salary CBC was paying me (with my sinful nature I couldn’t help but look at all the other under-paying employees highlighted in pink).
I tried to explain that I paid God anonymously in cold hard cash, but apparently the god of CBC doesn’t like that. I was informed that if I wanted to keep my job, I needed to put my cash in a tithing envelope and remember to write my assigned number on it.
All I’m saying Anonymous, is that not everyone gets to give in secret as you suggest.
I’m curious what people think about this. Is this acceptable? Should CBC require its employees to tithe? Lets discuss.
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February 16th, 2005 at 9:46 am
I suppose it only takes one to bring on the dreaded “Curse of Malachi”
Rumor has it that the church offers Automatic Tithe Withdrawal (ATW) for their employees.
February 16th, 2005 at 11:18 am
Philippians 3:13-14
…but this one thing I do,forgetting the things that are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
so I say I forget and press on.
Anonymous: Mac
February 16th, 2005 at 11:23 am
I find this shocking; although I guess, I should not. One of the principles that I think is basic in the Bible is the fact that we have a choice. Choose God, or not, it is our choice. Once we do choose God, the choices do not stop there. If fact those choices become much more important, but they are still our choices to make. God does not “Force” us to do anything, although, He can be quite persuasive at times. If He does not “Force” us then I do not think anyone on this planet should be the “Enforcer” of His Word; He can do that all by Himself. It makes me sad to think that there are churches out there that have come to this. I also believe that they have made that choice and they will have to answer to God for that choice. I would not want to be in their shoes on that day.
February 16th, 2005 at 11:41 am
So for those of us still here at CBC we just should forget about this and move on MAC? I’m not sure I understand what you are saying.
Anonymous Coward
February 16th, 2005 at 12:33 pm
I think Mac means the blog should forget and press on; which is what people have been doing for years and years.
Every time there is a problem with the church everyone says to forget and move on. Well, Catalyst and I managed to move on, but we haven’t forgotten yet, and by the looks of things we aren’t going to forget any time soon.
I believe this is how things get so bad. When churches start to pervert the word of God, those who want a real experience just move on.
The time has come for us as Christians to stand up together and say “Enough”.
Lets all stand and sing:
“Open the gates and seize the day. Don’t be afraid and don’t delay. Nothing can break us; no one can make us give our rights awaaaaay. Arise and seize the day”
February 16th, 2005 at 12:48 pm
…and so I feel I must confirm that Brian9000’s experience also extends down to those who are in ministry, not only to those who are in their employ. It is my “understanding” that people have been asked to “step down” from minstry because their tithing records were not what someone deemed “appropriate.” This is a fact.
How crazy is that? People this sickens me, that church is reduced to this.
So people I emplore you, it apparently does you absolutely no good for you to tithe in cash. Apparently God does not get notified properly if you do that and the curse will still be upon you. (this is a little known loophole in curse of Malachi)
February 16th, 2005 at 12:51 pm
Well I am definately no coward, and i already posted my thoughts on here but i cant remember in what comment. So here i will add my two cents again. And let me be quite Frank (to pun intended
) My name is Steven Gunvaldson my phone number is 503.722.9755 and if any one would like to talk about this simple yet blatantly clear principle why don’t we go get a cup of starbucks and chat. Here it is plain and simple, i hope i do not go to fast for anyone. I will paraphrase for time sake…”do not let your right hand know what your left hand is doiing concerning giving.” is that to hard to understand? That was a directive from Jesus, you that guy who died on the cross and is the son of God, and is in fact God himself. this is a truly black and white issue unlike the grey issues that CBC loves to enforce and preach as truth. I dare someone to refute this on a biblical stand point with me. Explain to me why this is accepted in todays christian practices and not highly condemned. I would love to debate this issue because it is a huge one in todays church that gets no publicity. This is a root that bleads into so many other areas of our materialistic christian life. It is wrong and needs to be addressed. I dont care it is is pastor Frank ok’ing it or a manifested angel proclaiming it is ok here in our americaninzed christian church. The B I B L E denounces it so why do we wink at it or not even think about it. It boils down to loss of control in the leadership over their people and measuring of peoples righteousness in materialistic form..among many other things. Well i have alot of other things i could say about this subject, and would love to talk to anyone about it so as i said earlier my name is Steven Gunvaldson and you can reach me at 503.722.9755
anonymous “STEVE”
February 16th, 2005 at 1:01 pm
This makes me so hopping mad that sometimes I want to nail my 95 feces to the church door.
What in the world happens to people when they get so isolated in their high posistions of authority that they can come up with these idoitic anti-scriptural policies?
February 16th, 2005 at 1:09 pm
Logically speaking, this amounts to nothing more than a mandatory reduction in pay, under the guise of giving to God. Correct me if I’m wrong, but the Levites weren’t required to tithe because they were doing the work of God full-time, right? The purpose of tithing in the OT was to financially support the priesthood and their families. Modern tithing, in principle, is supposed to carry the same idea, so clergy don’t have to work second jobs to feed their kids. Making them tithe to pay their own bills just makes no logical sense whatsoever. If, on the other hand, a VOLUNTARY clergy tithing program allowed them to donate VOLUNTARILY to another church or charity then that would allow them to participate in giving back to God through their finances.
February 16th, 2005 at 1:29 pm
wow I can’t believe it.
February 16th, 2005 at 1:31 pm
Why would anyone give VOLUNTARILY to another church? You certainly can’t “keep up with the Jones” by letting people do that.
February 16th, 2005 at 2:21 pm
Sounds like the Mormans
February 16th, 2005 at 2:26 pm
Sounds even more like the Pharisees
February 16th, 2005 at 3:37 pm
….After we “Seize the day,” will we have to give 10 percent from the sale of our papes? If so, we could get on our horses and ride away to “Santa Fe….”
February 16th, 2005 at 3:38 pm
….After we “Seize the day,” will we have to give 10 percent from the sale of our papes? If so, we could get on our horses and ride away to “Santa Fe….”
February 16th, 2005 at 3:39 pm
…after we “Seize the day,” will we have to pay 10 percent from the sale of our papes? If so, we could get on our horses and ride away to “Santa Fe….”
February 16th, 2005 at 3:44 pm
I love you guys, the ones who made this site and let me tell you why. I use to think that i was bitter at CBC until i started reading some of these postings, then i realized something. God showed me that what I thought was bitterness, was actually nausea. The practices of CBC sickens me, and i can kinda understand how Jesus felt dealing with the Pharisees. I truly realize that there is no perfect church, that all have thier “quirks” Although i see the things at CBC as more than quirks, but out and out wrongs. The sad part is how the other 5000+ members can’t, and all the while the Big cats get to sit back and get fat on their appetites for control, while sitting on their superior and righteous high horse. But as i said earlierthanks reformed pope and catalyst for reminding us to raise our voice, and reminding us to bow our knees at the awesome cross of God’s love and Grace… sincery Steve G.
February 16th, 2005 at 3:45 pm
Oops! Sorry I didn’t mean to studder! I am sure it was a computer glitch and not operator error!
February 16th, 2005 at 3:47 pm
5,000+ members?
I know people who haven’t been at that church in over 3 years that are still on the membership list.
My guess is somewhere closer to 3,000 members.
February 16th, 2005 at 3:52 pm
My bad i figured that since it was around 3000 when i attended school there it would haveot be around 5000+ but whatever, you always have to be a know it all pope! “gosh! i forgot my numchucks” (said napolean)
Steve
February 16th, 2005 at 4:58 pm
If you don’t like how your boss treats you, quit and find a new job.
Or start a blog about how much they suck.
February 16th, 2005 at 5:29 pm
Way to sum it up there chief. Genius! Christ’s Church IS JUST like a job. Now shut up and “give me some of your ‘tots.”
February 16th, 2005 at 5:43 pm
This is in reponse to…. “What was I saying when I posted the scripture Philippians 3.”
When I read the blog I was so frustrated. I wanted to lash out at CBC,I wanted to write every unethical thing I had ever heard about that church. But I didn’t think that would be the right thing to do, so as I pondered what I should do I was reminded of this scripture. So I layed down my carnal response to ungodliness and
decided to just look ahead and at Christ. Receive His mercy, and apply what I believe to myself.
On another note…..It is very difficult to give consistently to a ministry or the poor or to anyone and not have any recognition….It seems silly but I wonder how many of us or how many of you really do that. I have given anonymously on occasion, but as a regular habit…no…Having pondered these things I concluded I am more
compromised than I like to think. But I would like to take the challenge and see if I can give without any one knowing for six months. By then maybe it will have become a habit,or better yet part of my character.
Thanks for the time.
Mac
February 16th, 2005 at 5:43 pm
This is in reponse to…. “What was I saying when I posted the scripture Philippians 3.”
When I read the blog I was so frustrated. I wanted to lash out at CBC,I wanted to write every unethical thing I had ever heard about that church. But I didn’t think that would be the right thing to do, so as I pondered what I should do I was reminded of this scripture. So I layed down my carnal response to ungodliness and
decided to just look ahead and at Christ. Receive His mercy, and apply what I believe to myself.
On another note…..It is very difficult to give consistently to a ministry or the poor or to anyone and not have any recognition….It seems silly but I wonder how many of us or how many of you really do that. I have given anonymously on occasion, but as a regular habit…no…Having pondered these things I concluded I am more
compromised than I like to think. But I would like to take the challenge and see if I can give without any one knowing for six months. By then maybe it will have become a habit,or better yet part of my character.
Thanks for the time.
Mac
February 16th, 2005 at 6:04 pm
Hey do any of you accually have a job.Or are you blogging on the bosses time. And if you blogging working for cbc and not pay your tithes that bad.
Peace Shalom
February 16th, 2005 at 9:00 pm
This would not even be an issue if there was a different dynamic operating:
Psalm 110:3 “Your people shall be willing in the day of your power; in the beauties of holiness, from the womb of the morning.”
If the lame were walking, the blind were seeing, the deaf were hearing and the dead were raised, and the gospel were preached to the poor, would we not be willing to give to the cause? When you see the beauty of Jesus, doesn’t it make you want to give everything you have?
For what vision are we now asked to give? Starbucks-inspired interior decorating? Louder sound system? Oh, please.
I want to see His beauty and hear His gospel and see the activity of His presence in a greater way. Don’t you?
–grasshopper
February 17th, 2005 at 8:24 am
grasshopper,
without a doubt, that is what we want.
February 17th, 2005 at 10:57 am
Grasshopper said, “If the lame were walking, the blind were seeing, the deaf were hearing and the dead were raised, and the gospel were preached to the poor, would we not be willing to give to the cause? When you see the beauty of Jesus, doesn’t it make you want to give everything you have?”
That’s an excellent point. If I felt that by giving to the church, I was actually helping spread the love of Christ, I would be able to tolerate the constant messages on giving.
Unfortunately, I don’t see the money going toward anything but the Church itself, a physical building.
CBC preaches a selfish message on giving. Their message is, “Give to me, so I can become better.” when the message should be “Give to me, so we can make the world better.”
I just read that line again and Wow, Thats cheesy…
February 17th, 2005 at 11:22 am
Catalyst,
I thought you were dead.
February 17th, 2005 at 12:51 pm
has anyone heard my favourite line, “God doesn’t need your money?” This is always followed by some exposition about how they are really helping us by teaching us how to give back to God.
So….God doesn’t need our money huh? Well someone has to sustain that multi-million dollar budget. Where does that money come from?
Oh, props to genius PFD for coming up with the whole faith harvest concept which is basically a shot in the arm to the yearly budget now. I mean they have to pay for those extra expeditures somehow right? Need I list them? Maybe that would make a fun topic?I was there for the first faith harvest which seemed like a good idea at the time. Little did I know what was in store…..
February 17th, 2005 at 2:14 pm
I’m not really up to date on my Forward Together history, but I don’t think PFD is fully responsible.
I’m pretty sure this program, like most of their programs, was knocked off from another church.
They really aren’t very original.
February 17th, 2005 at 2:16 pm
I’m not really up to date on my Forward Together history, but I don’t think PFD is fully responsible.
I’m pretty sure this program, like most of their programs, was knocked off from another church.
They really aren’t very original.
November 17th, 2005 at 9:16 pm
Did someone say something about MAC..well there Studio Fix is the best!! Oh and Plastique lipstick works well for day and night. But ladies save your money from the tithes cause your gonna need it.
But isn’t looking good for God well worth it? Gotta keep up that profile. Grab your LV’s we are going shopping.