Spring Break
Posted on April 18th, 2005 by catalyst into the Uncategorized categoryRecently the following comments were posted on the blog:
“Where you at, Cat? We’re worried that while reviewing your Solemn Assembly audio tapes you’ve become disheartened and indifferent toward CBC’s propaganda.”
and
“We want Cat. We want Cat.”
Please allow me to respond. I am not indifferent toward CBC’s propaganda. It’s just that when I saw their new conference and saw what they were charging, I genuinely felt sorry for them. And I don’t want to kick them when they are down.
And while I can not believe people still attend CBC. If they want to go to a church where the emphasis is on money and success, then fine. I think its crazy, but that’s their choice. And so be it.
Secondly, I have to admit that I am not that impressed with JP’s church The Well. The leadership at The Well refused to admit that this blog did any good. This blog isn’t perfect, nor is the manner in which we portray the church. But this blog has given a lot of ex-CBC members a sense of community. It has reassured them that they are not alone in their beliefs.
Unfortuantely, The Well does not care about those people. They would rather support “the church” then help people who have been hurt by “the church.”
It’s sad really. And when I say “The Well is just CBC for people who want to drink alcohol.” I’m saying, The Well is not that much different from CBC. It’s the same institutional leadership that values church over people.
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April 18th, 2005 at 10:51 am
Watch out Catalyst,
comments like that are sure to bring out the rage of Anonymous #39.
(He might not be that anonymous anymore)
April 18th, 2005 at 3:48 pm
What would you like the well to do?
April 18th, 2005 at 3:57 pm
“It’s the same institutional leadership that values church over people.” — I believe that’s called fascism: ‘a governmental system with strong centralized power, permitting no opposition or criticism, controlling all affairs of the nation’ (or in this case, church) — the dictionary.
Anyway so as not to get too serious, keep reviewing those Solemn Assembly tapes. They’re sure to have clues of where to find that handmaiden of the Lord, O man of God.
And if you end up being so busy looking for that wife, thanks for keeping the blog open. I’m sure we can find something to comment on if someone starts a thread.
April 18th, 2005 at 8:38 pm
You know catalyst you’re probably right about the Well. If history can teach us something it’s that through history any new message the people received by God the moment the church organized it, it died. Maybe the bloggs not right and maybe at times it has crossed the line with a few of the articles but its the truth. Here no one is lying to their self. It’s their true feeling about what happens and how they see things.
Theirs a group of Christian that burn to know the truth , To feel God and that want a relationship with Him and not the church. I believe that’s why this whole thing got started. Please if I could tell you one thing is don’t fall into the system and get lost. Don’t lose your voice. Don’t DENOMINATE in a church. Christian will be judge as individuals so just remember that (Not by what church we go to.).
What funny is that they will say that we are like children and we don’t know better? That’s our problem, in that children aren’t that dumb as grow up think, and you can’t get by with “Dad said to do it and that final” they want more. The church has sat her and argued with you guys from day one and if they would show you the power of God as in the work that Jesus did so shall we. No one would be even blogging.
I’m sure Luther didn’t have it easy. I just hope we didn’t lose a big part of this blog to the Well and he realizes that this might be for just one soul that needed to realize that the actions at CBC are not
Christ like, but more mankind and they don’t lose hope on Jesus Christ. And that I think was your goal when you started this.
Peace Shalom
April 19th, 2005 at 7:32 pm
The Well’s position on this blog isn’t all there is to the Well. Hopefully you all know that. So, unless you have been involved at the Well, like you were at CBC, you may want to reserve criticism. Not that the Well is perfect (it’s not), but it’s quite wonderful in many ways, and has given many people who’ve been chewed up & spit out by the likes of CBC hope that it may actually be possible to “do” Christianity and ministry in a joyful, fulfilling way.
I know the Well didn’t “order” or “guilt” JP into quitting this blog. It sounds like he chose to honor his leadership’s request, which isn’t so bad, is it?
April 19th, 2005 at 7:56 pm
“The Well is not that much different from CBC. It’s the same institutional leadership that values church over people.”
Wow, I beg to differ. First of all, the “church” is made up of “people” so they are not mutually exclusive. I can tell you that the Well leadership does not think highly of CBC (do you forget where the Well’s original pastor spent many years getting beat up?…and they never even considered succuming to CBC’s pressure that the Well pastor should sign up the church as a whole for the CBC-sponsored “Churches for Measure 36″ list). Those are just two small examples of how the Well and CBC are vastly different.
April 20th, 2005 at 9:26 am
In a city as small as Portland, a church like The Well could suffer a great deal of damage from a monstrous church like City Business. If I were a pastor or elder there, I too would be a little leary about stirring up that hornets nest. When contents from this blog start making there way into Willamette Weekly articles and CBC threatens a Well member to stop blogging, I think it’s justified of their pastor to want to tone down the attacks on CBC.
April 20th, 2005 at 9:45 am
I’m sure if the pastors at The Well were concerned about being damaged by CBC they would have stopped the blog a long time ago.
At this point it looks like they just care about RP.
April 20th, 2005 at 12:01 pm
—- “I know the Well didn’t “order” or “guilt” JP into quitting this blog. It sounds like he chose to honor his leadership’s request, which isn’t so bad, is it?”——
In my humble opinion this is tantamount to being guilted or ordered. When asked by leadership to stop something what option does a decent leadership abiding church attendee have? None.
I firmly believe churches like these need to get their hands OUT of their attenders lives immediately. These are not issues of sin, morality and spiritual growth, it is manipulation and control, plain and simple! Seriously, woe to them on judgement day.
signed, yet another former inner circle member who has been freed from the matrix.
April 22nd, 2005 at 2:52 am
I can’t tell who’s on what side anymore! If Mark Estes threatens to call Tim Ringering and make RP stop blogging, and RP is a somewhat respectful human being, then it seems reasonable to me for RP to consider stopping. Doesn’t make it right, but JP just cares too much! Catalyst on the other, couldn’t care less what any pastor or politician has to say to him. Doesn’t make it right, but Cat just cares too little!
April 22nd, 2005 at 5:39 pm
I heared Tim was really worried about hearing from CBC and thats why he told RP to stop.
April 23rd, 2005 at 1:27 am
I wanted to take a moment to commend you on this blog. As far as I can tell, over the last 22 years I have either been on staff, in the Bible college, or friends with the pastors of the churches mentioned here. I have been witness to some dishearting behavior over that time span. I am sure I have fallen short also. For that I ask forgiveness.
I agree with the people who say you must confront in a biblical way. I also know that all these leaders have been properly approached on many different levels and they have rejected the appeal. So what are you to do when you can’t take your concern any higher in the command structure?
I have concluded that the only thing left is public exposure through some sort of media.
We (pastors)can set up our own little worlds and make it so we don’t have to listen to anyone. Public scutiny is the only thing left. It was the only thing that got the Catholic churches attention after its leadership tried to cover a problem.
Your doing them a favor. I don’t want to sound condescending, but I am proud of you.
April 24th, 2005 at 3:41 pm
Knowing CBC, I’m sure they contacted the Well about this blog and tried to manipulate the Well’s leadership into guilting JP to quit. Knowing the Well, I cannot imagine it being intimidated by CBC. So, I am fairly certain that the Well’s motivation for asking JP to stop blogging wasn’t intimidation by CBC.
April 26th, 2005 at 3:36 pm
“Knowing the Well, I cannot imagine it being intimidated by CBC. So, I am fairly certain that the Well’s motivation for asking JP to stop blogging wasn’t intimidation by CBC.”
It’s not a matter of intimidation. It is a matter of wanting ‘big daddy’s’ approval.
Sure when you are a new church with a radical young pastor, it seems right to point out the hurtful and crazy things that other ‘established’ churches are doing. You hand off your church to another who isn’t quite like you and is less confrontive. (sure they will confront a young person who wants to stay in good standing of their church). Then the pastoral team likes being successful, they hit a couple hundred people and all of a sudden you want to go along and get along.
You got a good thing going and you don’t want to ruin it.
You say to yourself your doing it for all the right reason’s, but deep down you know you want the big churches to like/respect you and say “your a good church”.
Last but not least you say something like this, “If they do that to City Bible, soon they will be upset with us and we will be the ones they blog about.”
And the whole time it feels so right.
April 28th, 2005 at 8:35 pm
“apastor,” you definitely are mis-reading the Well. They certainly don’t view CBC as their “big daddy!” Also, if they wanted CBC’s approval, they would have signed up to support Measure 36 when CBC leaned on them to do so.
April 29th, 2005 at 9:21 am
To not participating in conservative politics in the city of Portland is not that big a deal. It actually would carry more risk than benifit.
As far as CBC ‘leaning on them’ then they leaned on every church in Portland. They just announced they were going to support measure 36 and asks other churches to do the same. This act of standing up to CBC is the equivalent to not buying from a phone salesman. You just brush them off.
You can’t just brush CBC off when the man who is bloging about them goes to your church. Telling CBC that you don’t control your congregation and how they blog would have been an act of bravery.
As far as misreading the church, I don’t think so considering some of those lines where direct quotes from their leadership.
April 29th, 2005 at 11:02 am
I heard CBC took names of everyone who didn’t support measure 36.
Sounds to me like they think its a big deal.
May 2nd, 2005 at 8:18 pm
“apastor,” given your first comment in this strand, I’m thinking we’re largely on the same page here (my guess is that we may even know each other)…so I don’t want to squabble and speculate with you about the Well’s motives for asking JP to stop blogging here. I do know that CBC did put some specific pressure on the Well to endorse Measure 36; it didn’t stop at a general “y’all join us” invite. I am not aware of any desire within the Well’s leadership to have a stamp of approval from CBC and would be hard-pressed to believe it exists to any significant extent.
At any rate, if you’re still in ministry, even after being on staff and close with leadership at CBC, you have my sincere respect. After going through the ringer at CBC, then again at a church seemingly radically different than CBC, I seriously struggle to have hope that Biblical, authentic, effective, sustainable ministry, within a church community, is possible. I’m happy for you that you have sifted through all of that and found a way to serve…I’m still working on that.
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