Putting the Account in Accountability
Posted on April 22nd, 2005 by catalyst into the Uncategorized categoryI am willing to delete this blog, if someone can show me another way to hold the church (CBC, The Well) accountable.
I have run out of things to say, but everytime I think about quitting the blog, someone like LucyGirl posts a comment, and then I realize that this blog is the only thing holding City Bible accountable for their actions.
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April 25th, 2005 at 4:37 pm
Maybe you could form a coalition.
“The Defense of Religion Coalition”
April 25th, 2005 at 8:48 pm
WOW holding the church accountable. That just great. I’ve got it.
And if they don’t do it you’ll have to stop blogging. You know passing the collection plate like they do it. Why do they intimidate you like that? They make sure they watch you as you put you’re rolled up one dollar bills to make it look like your giving a lot. I say if they are not interested about the dollar they should put the offering plate at the back of the church as they did in the Old Testament. If the Jewish people don’t pass the offering and you know how much they love money you might think maybe we have it all wrong. I don’t know about cbc but every church I’ve been to they pass the collections right after the singing. That way you’re all emotional and you give more. Maybe thats what the collection agency should do to get their money back is have a sing festival.
You might get all uptight about the Jews did they not send him to the cross in the first place so maybe we are right. I say we are wrong. If Jesus would come to today how would it be. Would he stop at your church? Or would you have to go to a park to hear him talk? Or if he came to the Well would people from the cbc go to that church to hear him? Or visa versa? I think that if he was hear not that many people would even know.
Can we hold the church accountable? I believe not. What we can hold accountable are the people that believe that an organization is going to help them get closer to God. 10%close 20%closer 30%getting even closer and if you give 50% you might even get to sit by him That not even right. Which I believe the bible will get you closer to God.
I believe in this web site because it makes people think for themselves and not just listen to what other have to say and believe it. And don’t get me wrong I don’t disagree with going to church. I just do what is right for me. There is nothing wrong with questioning things. Or to ask question like Why’s that? They (the church) just don’t what to hear it.
Don’t give up Catalyst you’re helping more people then you know.
Peace Shalom
April 26th, 2005 at 8:29 am
I think in the end God holds every one “accountable”. I leave it up to him.
April 26th, 2005 at 9:05 am
Why the sudden angst, Cat? You’ve said it before, that CBC tends to write this blog for you. I know it’s hard to write satire/parody instead of outright bashing, but you guys are pretty inspired at times. Don’t delete the blog simply because you don’t have any ideas. Take a break and come back later. No one is going to die if you don’t post something every day.
April 26th, 2005 at 9:22 am
You’re probably right. I should just chill out, and wait until their next conference. You know it’ll be great…
Though I actually am curious who holds churches accountable. I’m pretty sure it’s the congregation, and yet at CBC if you disagree you inevitably just leave the congregation… seems odd…
April 27th, 2005 at 7:59 pm
Who holds churches accountable…surely you are kidding…God does. And believe it or not He does not even listen to our opinion. You keep calling out CBC; but you must remember we are all human and in that state we are sinners. It doesn’t matter if we are heads of a church or homeless in the streets we are all going to be HUMAN, fallen, sinners, and making incredible mistakes until we arrive in Heaven. I do not think that we should let the church run wild as I think CBC may have; along with many mega churches in America; but still we are evil and fallen and we will remain that way until we leave this earth. I think it may be unfair to expect even the leaders of churches to be perfect, after all they are not. And neither are you or I. I only hope that we can love each other enough to have half of the forgiveness that God has for us, until we reach perfection in Heaven. Thank God he does not judge us as harshly as we judge ourselves and each other. Belive not in man but in God. Princess Caraboo
April 28th, 2005 at 9:00 am
You ask whether I am kidding? And then say, “God holds churches accountable.”
That’s kind of vague don’t you think. I mean God holds everyone accountable in some sense, but we still need people on earth to help us out, right?
Or, are you suggesting that humans need other humans to hold them accountable, but Churches only need God?
As usual, you leave me confused Caraboo.
April 28th, 2005 at 1:08 pm
Princess Caraboo,
How do you think that God holds people (or churches) responsible for their actions? True, come judgement day, everyone will have to give an account for everything. In the meantime, how do you think God enables accountability? It’s called “other people”. We are all the body of Christ and as such we are responsible to love each other, and that includes holding each other accountable to the Word of God. Let’s not hyperspiritualize matters and hope that God magically - excuse me, “supernaturally” intervenes in the affairs of men. The Bible shows that He rarely does that. He’s more interested in us exercising our free will(s) to do the right thing.
Perhaps you didn’t mean it to sound that way, so to be fair, I will agree with you that we are all in need of grace. Paul told Timothy to repeat the mantra “Christ died for sinners - of whom I am the worst.” It’s that humility that allows you to keep a healthy balance of accountability without being judgmental. Equal portions of Grace and Holiness.
I think if there was no humor here, only angst and bitterness, I would wonder if the authors had any grace left for CBC. If I make fun of Cat’s dorky shoes and laugh with him about it, he’ll probalby stop wearing them (which was my goal). If I HATE Cat for wearing dorky shoes and make up lies and rumors about him…
Keep up the funnay!
FICM
April 28th, 2005 at 1:18 pm
FICM, you are correct, I don’t have very much grace for City Bible.
I think they do more harm than good. While, I imagine you think the opposite.
April 28th, 2005 at 5:04 pm
Hmmm… a couple of thoughts on the matter…
First of all, I believe that God actually does listen to our opinion and cares very deeply what each one of us thinks about Him and His church.
Secondly, to actually hold people accountable, kinda like FICM was saying, you have to be friends and do it in a personal relational way. There’s no way this blog actually keeps CBC accountable, which brings me to my last and most important point…
On a day to day basis I go back and forth on the opinion that CBC does more harm than good. I really do find it hard to believe that anyone could really be called to be there at all, unless it were to implement change. However, I don’t believe that all the programs and plasma screens are the problem. I mean, I disagree with them, but so what.
What really disturbs me is that everyone tries to pursuade you that it is the biggest and best church you’ll ever go to, and there’s no sane reason to ever go anywhere else or try to hear the voice of God apart from your pastor. That, my friend, is absolutely terrible.
Forget all the messages on tithing and faith harvest. Forget all the outward signs of the deep issues at hand. What’s wrong is the idea that it’s all about the church, it’s all about the pastors. Seldom does Jesus actually pop up anywhere. The audacity of the leadership in their arrogance to say that you need a “spiritual covering” apart from the Holy Spirit is simply rediculous.
I was the most confused Christian in my time at CBC, because I knew I had to pray and read my Bible every day, but I also knew that I had to hear the voice of God through my pastor, so why even bother with actually talking to God?
The last couple of years have been wonderful for me as I actually begin to talk to God and hear him speak to me about His love and His Father’s heart for me. I’ve visited churches a handful of times over the last two years, but also, shockingly, I’ve only picked up the Bible a couple of times over this time period also. You see I’ve read it through about 5 times or so and I’ve got a pretty good memory, but it all really pales in comparison to actually talking to the author Himself!
Be careful Cat, don’t be just as guilty of arrogance as CBC leadership to think that this blog will keep them accountable. Ultimately, God will, but for now either directly dialogue with them or pray that God leads people directly into their life and shakes them up a little bit. Otherwise, like someone else already suggested, go out and live your own life, find your own relationship with God, find your own church, and maybe even find a wife.
April 29th, 2005 at 10:59 am
Why do so many people think it is wrong to write a web site which tries to hold the church accountable, but it’s ok for the church to run a site to hold the homosexuals (I believe CBC refers to them as faggots) accountable?
April 29th, 2005 at 2:19 pm
I was just at a CBC service where they referred to them as “HOMOSEXUALS”. If you have the tape of them saying “FAGGOTS” I’d like to hear it.
April 29th, 2005 at 3:41 pm
From the pulpit?
I think they put on a better show than that. They save “faggot” for personal use.
April 30th, 2005 at 3:41 pm
Time to delete the derogatory posts….they border on NASTY… and this should be a FUN site.
April 30th, 2005 at 7:40 pm
Quoting a few anonymouses back:
Forget all the messages on tithing and faith harvest. Forget all the outward signs of the deep issues at hand. What’s wrong is the idea that it’s all about the church, it’s all about the pastors. Seldom does Jesus actually pop up anywhere. The audacity of the leadership in their arrogance to say that you need a “spiritual covering” apart from the Holy Spirit is simply rediculous.
This has it dead on.
Occasionally I tune into TBN just to see what’s going on there. I don’t buy a thing they’re selling (don’t even get me started about the love gifts) because it’s all cheap trash really. Marketing, marketing, marketing. It’s the embodiment of what Bonhoeffer described as “cheap grace”.
And the pastors say it’s about the message but, let’s be honest, it really isn’t. It’s about Rod Parsley, Paul and Jan Crouch, it’s about Joel Osteen (who just gives me the willies for some reason I can’t put my finger on).
I don’t think this ‘blog can hold CBC and suchlike accountable in the fullest sense of the word, but it can in a certain sense of the word. One thing I do not accept is that Catalyst et. al. are insincere Christians with an axe to grind. It’s easy to do this, for people who don’t fit in or are left dry by what nourishes and is popular with everyone else.
It also misses the point and exacerbates with injury, by ignoring the harm and painting the victim as the villain. I don’t think Catalyst’s complaints are merely the moanings of a troublemaker, because I sense this daily, in the dealings of people I know who are born-again’s who get ‘done to’ in the name of thier pastor and thier church. If circumstances were any different, then maybe. But I get a whiff of decadence as I pass any ‘mega’ church or slick spiritual marketing or see another televangelist.
There are genuine concerns here which, if they aren’t addressed, will eventually be disfiguring to every church, by instilling a public sense of cynicism for the practice of faith. It could possibly be fatal to churches. And they won’t go away if we mock those who raise conscientious, sincere, and loving objections.
I am, though Catholic, aware of the doctrines of “sola fides” and “sola scriptura”. Seems, in the case of CBC and its type, it’s mutated into “sola pastora (sic)”
April 30th, 2005 at 9:29 pm
Amen, Amen and Amen……excellent points and analysis. Thank you. Right on the mark in the previous post here….the victim is not the villain….hence the abusive church syndrome that those of us hurt by this mega-heresy become so aware of. May God bless you for your courage to stand up for what is right.
May 2nd, 2005 at 8:36 pm
I agree that this blog can’t “hold CBC accountable” in the fullest sense of the word; however, it can diffuse the image it so vehemently projects, and, more importantly, dispel its Pharisaical (sp?) approach to Christianity. I think it can be powerfully healing to share experiences and dissect theories that so many of us have been forced to accept as “from
God,” to get some real perspective on them, etc…
I have personally been victimized and villianized by CBC, and know countless others who also have been. For that and for many other reasons, I definitely agree that that church does way more harm than good. I’m SO sick of people saying “they’re not perfect, none of us are…” give me a break; are we children? What a cop out. Of course, none of us are perfect, which is why Jesus died on the cross. The reality is that CBC sets itself up as being immune from questioning by anyone, which is NOT Biblical. Any disagreement or violation of their “community standards” (i.e., extra-biblical do’s and don’ts that are treated like Scripture) makes you a permanent outcast, so you either conform or leave. There’s no middle ground.
I’m all for venting and healing…as long as the end result is not bitterness and hard-heartedness. I’m not suggesting anyone who blogs here is bitter. Only God sees our hearts. I know that I have struggled with hard-heartedness…but Christ has given me a new heart of flesh and it is still soft towards Him, His people, and those He died to save that don’t yet know Him. All despite of CBC, who really isn’t on my radar screen at all these days…except that I visit this blog now and then because I really empathize with others who have been damaged by CBC. This blog may not change them (although you know d@mn well their members read this blog more than anyone else), but it may change us, which is excellent.
God bless you all, every one.
FFTM
October 28th, 2005 at 2:33 pm
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