City Bible Tithing Policy
Posted on May 20th, 2005 by catalyst into the Tithe categoryIn the past, there has been some debate over City Bible’s tithing policy for employees. As luck would have it, I was able to acquire City Bible’s employee handbook.
Here, written verbatim, is their policy.
TITHING
Consistent tithing is a requirement for continued employment as a staff member and as part of the ministry team at City Bible Church. Each quarter the giving records of all staff are reviewed. In the event that a staff member is not meeting the requirement, a meeting with Church Business Administrator will be scheduled. If after that meeting, no change has been made the staff member will be notified of possible termination.
For further understanding of this vital area please refer to lesson #16 Stewardship from Foundation Truth: Understanding Church Life by Pastor Frank Damazio.
Editors Note: You can add "Foundation Truth" to the list of books I have got to read.
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May 20th, 2005 at 5:47 pm
Do they use Frank’s books to back up every policy or do they sometimes use the Bible?
May 20th, 2005 at 6:58 pm
How is this not considered extortion? This has to be illeagal. I have never heard of a business that requires you to give a percentage of your income back to the company. I am just waiting for someone to take leagal action against CBC. Last time I checked tithing was supposed to come from the heart not the employee handbook.
May 20th, 2005 at 9:22 pm
CBC sounds like the Mormon church. The Mormon church requires all members to tithe 10% of every pay check. If they do not, they are no longer considered to be in good standing. Hank could almost be compared to Joseph Smith, in that everyone bows down to him, treating him as though he were a god. CBC’ers need to start thinking for themselves and not believe everything they are told.
The stupid thing about all of this, is that CBC employees really are not required to tithe because they do not sign contracts for employment up there. In reality, CBC really could be sued for terminating someone for not tithing.
May 21st, 2005 at 5:55 am
When you make tithing mandatory, it makes the tithe like a tax. The government takes 30% of my money every two weeks, is that a tithe? Because if it is, then the Curse of Malachi be damned, I’m tithing above and beyond… Of course, I’m also trying to get George W. Bush to lower my mandatory tithe. It’s killing me…
May 21st, 2005 at 10:23 am
I would normally think they are misusing the word of God, but since they only list Frank’s book…
It’s hard to misuse something that you don’t use to begin with.
May 21st, 2005 at 11:28 am
I’ve ranted about this before, but I’ll say it again anyway. Tithing was started during the Mosaic Covenant, when God set aside the Levites to act as the ministers to God’s temple. To make sure their attention wasn’t divided, he made it their full time jobs. To carry this out, he required the other 11 tribes to tithe 10% for the support of the Levites. Did God require the Levites to tithe? (No.) If tithing is meant to support the church and those employees of the church, should they tithe? (Yes! Wait - what???)
CBC’s employee tithing program is simply a mandatory 10% reduction in pay.
FICM
May 21st, 2005 at 4:01 pm
ever seen those bumperstickers that say that “gambling is a tax for people who are bad at math”? hmmm… perhaps tithing rules work the same way. but hey, someone’s got to support Franko’s fancy car and latte habit. kinda strange that they refer to it as “giving” and “offering” but it isn’t given, nor is it offered, if it is taken against one’s will. if the topic at hand was sex, i think we could all agree that is called rape.
May 21st, 2005 at 4:13 pm
As a professional church musician, I’m so glad that someone (thanks, FICM) has brought up the original purpose of the tithe. To my knowledge, the teachers at CCS are paid a pittance, and the story is the same for the custodians, administrative assistants, etc. Even the federal government is charitable enough to have tax brackets. I also feel inspired to note that I have never been expected to contribute monetarily to the congregations I have worked for. The ushers don’t even send the basket down my pew. And, the churches I’ve worked for have been in much worse financial straits than CBC has ever thought about. The difference is that these congregations realize what I am — a student without significant disposable income and an employee who is already doing more work than they can afford to compensate.
This business of giving money so that God will provide blessings is silly at best…of course the church needs money. It has operating costs and employees, and those employees have to be maintained. That’s not doctrine, nor is it rocket science or some complex spiritual principle. There’s nothing mystical about the rent check, folks.
Now, what does seem rather mystical is CBC’s financial report of a few years past, surveyed at a tender age by a dear elder’s-kid friend of mine…to her surprise, she discovered a $10 million surplus. Her parents calmly explained to her that she didn’t understand it. I don’t know, though….she’s always been pretty good at math if memory serves.
May 22nd, 2005 at 11:07 am
Actually, CBC does not reduce pay by 10%. There are two options:
1) Allow payroll to automatically deduct the 10% from your check, or
2) Put the 10% in the tithing bucket yourself.
I guess, in a sense, #2 is almost the same as a mandatory pay decrease.
As I had mentioned a month or so ago, my mother was not tithing “enough”, while she worked there, so she was called in and questioned about it.
May 22nd, 2005 at 11:11 am
Speaking of paying for the leaderships cars and latte habits. I heard (this came directly from a son-in-law of one of the leadership at CBC) that all of the leadership have a mortgage stipened. Apparently, almost their entire mortgage payment is paid each month. Where do you think they get the money from??? Probably all of the tithers.
May 22nd, 2005 at 12:22 pm
When I read this post I could hardly believe what I was reading. Surely this is some new policy to cover for all the new campuses and stages, etc. After all, I’ve had family members and friends who have worked for this organization, and there’s no way they would put up with such blatant extortion. But after having a very fascinating and detailed conversation with one of them, I was informed that this policy has actually been in effect for quite a while, specifically since Hank became pastor. And when I asked this ex-cbc employee if they thought it was justifiable, they diplomatically responded “all I can say is that’s not the way I would do things.” Shocking. So he’s always had the audacity to assume the position of “big eye in the sky”. If he had a smidge of the grace and understanding his former employee has, he would never have stuck his nose where it clearly doesn’t belong. Catch a clue, Hankie boy.
May 22nd, 2005 at 10:48 pm
The mandatory tithe pre-dates Hank by many years. It was in place when Hank was there the first time–at PBC and pre-Eugene. As well as the policy that employees have to be church memebers.
As far as the “mortgage payment” goes: that comes from tax law where ordained ministers get to deduct a “housing allowance”. It is not paid by the church. Just an FYI. Don’t get me wrong, there’s plenty of cause for righteous indignation, but we want to give credit where credit is due. The fact that the mandatory tithe still exists in the 21st century…that is pathetic.
May 23rd, 2005 at 8:52 am
as a pastor of a church community here in pdx, we try to teach giving by actually doing it… that is, as a community we have decided that 10% of what comes in to the community through offering will go to the poor and people in need. The idea is also that as giving increases, so does the percentage of money that we use to feed, clothe and house people.
my hope is that I’ll never have “preach on giving.” The lesson will just be plain by what we do.
Also- I expect our people to be giving- to be using their money to do some good in this world. I hope that they support a wide variety of things- their church community, Compassion International, etc.
I guess my question for those that impose a mandatory tithe- If I gave it all (or most) to feed children in 3rd world countries, would that be okay???
May 23rd, 2005 at 9:40 am
When I worked at CBC it was not ok. It is taught that your tithe goes to your church body you call home. Now if you want to give (on top of your 10% to CBC) to another organization that was OK, but not encouraged. After all CBC has a missions program that needs funding just as much as Compassion International. Just whatever you do, just make sure to pay up your 10%……. OR ELSE.
May 23rd, 2005 at 10:29 am
Does The Church (CBC or whoever) give 10% of their income to anyone?
Shouldn’t they, or does the tithe stop with them?
May 23rd, 2005 at 4:28 pm
If I was still going to church I would check out Pastor Bob Hyatt’s church. http://www.evergreenlife.org/forum/
May 23rd, 2005 at 7:48 pm
If CBC’s tithing policy is true, it would seem CBC is arrogantly challenging anti-discrimination laws.
According to ORS 659A 659A.030 (1)It is an unlawful employment practice: (a) For an employer, because of an individual’s … religion… or because of the … religion … of any other person with whom the individual associates, … to refuse to hire or employ or to bar or discharge from employment such individual. However, discrimination is not an unlawful employment practice if such discrimination results from a bona fide occupational requirement reasonably necessary to the normal operation of the employer’s business.”
Unless tithing is a “bona fide occupational requirement”. For example, a church may discriminate against applicants who hold a different religious view if the job requires an applicant to express a particular religious (such as a pastor). But a church cannot require a janitor, office worker, or accountant to hold a religious view if its not required. CBC may be betting on a legal workaround.
May 24th, 2005 at 1:30 pm
Would you consider being taught that God will curse you if you don’t tithe (that’s a full OT 10% for those new to the blog)”window dressing”?
How about being taught that God charges 20% interest on missed tithe?
For those interested in hearing this “window dressing” see Frank’s sermons on A Life that Honor’s God Pt. 2(Nov 21st 2004).
Maybe I’m wrong though. After all, I once heard an elder from “The Business” say that there are only 3 important things.
1. That you believe in Heaven and Hell
2. That you believe in the Bible
3. That you believe in Jesus Christ.
And I was always taught that Mormonism is a cult.
May 25th, 2005 at 8:36 am
Pastor Bob, I appreciate your comments on setting a positive example by giving 10% of your offering. I know that CBC and other churches dedicate a certain percentage of offering income to missions and other charities. But the difference here is that, as far as anyone here seems to know, the mandatory employee tithe is placed back in the general fund of the church. I’ve mentioned this before, but if they want to make this system seem more like giving as opposed to pay cut, they should have a separate fund for employee tithing that is given to a public charity in the city, Christian or otherwise. That would allow them to set a good example of giving (not tithing) without creating a conflict of interest. But it should still be OPTIONAL.
FICM
February 8th, 2006 at 6:05 pm
Wouldn’t mandatory tithing negate “Cheerful Giving”? How are we to be given the opportunity to be cheerful givers if giving is forced?….Silly Pastor, controling your church is for the government.
November 20th, 2006 at 8:49 am
This is bogus. There is no command to give anything to any religious organization for the follower of the Messiah (Christ-follower, Christian). There are plenty of web sits that show the basic fallacy of mandatory tithing to “church”. Google “mandatory tithing” and go from there. If an organization says giving is mandatory watch out; you’re probably dealing with a group that wants you under their control. Most religions and cults fall under that, at least in my experience.