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Posted on June 21st, 2005 by Reformed Pope into the Uncategorized category


I hope this clears things up. Posted by Hello

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35 Comments To This Post

  1. Anonymous said:    
    June 21st, 2005 at 4:43 pm

    it is fuzzy… got a link or something?

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  2. Anonymous said:    
    June 21st, 2005 at 11:54 pm

    The Picture is the link.

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  3. Samuel John Klein said:    
    June 22nd, 2005 at 12:02 am

    Wild, absolutely wild, and appropriately cutting.

    Especially I liked the part where you lined out “Joel Osteen” and left it visible.

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  4. FICM said:    
    June 22nd, 2005 at 1:11 pm

    Very insightful and funny. I was worried as I was approaching the end, though! haha

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  5. catalyst said:    
    June 22nd, 2005 at 1:28 pm

    I would like to thank Priv8Pete for sending this graph.

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  6. Anonymous said:    
    June 22nd, 2005 at 3:14 pm

    Question: I don’t believe Jesus is God and I don’t go to church. I am…

    a) Muslim
    b) Buddhist
    c) Jewish
    d) Hindu
    e) Animist
    f) Any of the above, if not more

    So many people, so many ways to find God…

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  7. catalyst said:    
    June 23rd, 2005 at 7:53 am

    You are:

    g) Going to Hell.

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  8. JiminyCricket81 said:    
    June 23rd, 2005 at 1:35 pm

    Wow, cat,

    I’m hoping and praying that your last comment was meant sarcastically. It sounds a whole lot like the Christian ghetto doctrine….

    “There are two kinds of people in this world…people going to hell and people going to heaven, that’s it, and that’s all!”

    How exactly are we supposed to love people who we aren’t even interested in getting to know? And, if the answer is as simple and black-and-white as:

    g) Going to hell

    how can we claim to truly know someone when that’s the only box our brain sorts them into? And, consequently, how can we expect to really love them? Isn’t love the point of all this anyway?

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  9. catalyst said:    
    June 23rd, 2005 at 2:16 pm

    uh yes, that’s what the spanish call an el joko.

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  10. Anonymous said:    
    June 23rd, 2005 at 4:30 pm

    el drunko

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  11. Anonymous said:    
    June 23rd, 2005 at 5:51 pm

    Jiminy, please elaborate exactly how it is you believe someone who doesn’t believe Jesus is God will have any other outcome than the southern sizzle? Your thoughts?

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  12. Anonymous said:    
    June 23rd, 2005 at 5:51 pm

    Jiminy, please elaborate exactly how it is you believe someone who doesn’t believe Jesus is God will have any other outcome than the southern sizzle? Your thoughts?

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  13. Crickett said:    
    June 23rd, 2005 at 6:52 pm

    jiminy is trying to be liberally PC in a Christian world…

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  14. Spade said:    
    June 23rd, 2005 at 10:17 pm

    To Southern sizzle Anonymous,

    You are missing Jiminy’s message entirely. It is not about what she believes. It is about what the Christian thing to do is, and telling a person that they are going to hell is not the Christian thing to do. Christ’s message was not “Believe in me or burn,” it was one of love and compassion for your fellow man.

    If I remember correctly it is a Christian’s duty to spread Christ’s message not his/her own fire and brimstone sermon. Telling someone they are going to hell does not make him/her very receptive to any other more important message.

    You can go put your pitchfork away. I have done the calculations and Jiminy does not weigh the same as a duck, therefore she is not a witch ;)

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  15. JiminyCricket81 said:    
    June 24th, 2005 at 10:27 am

    The southern sizzle?

    Sometimes, the things “Christians” say in jest make me nauseous. Anonymous, if you’re so convinced that you’re right and the rest of the world is wrong, then what in heaven’s name are you doing making fun of people who are going to spend eternity burning? If your belief system allows for the possibility that anyone will be tormented forever if they don’t follow the rules, then shouldn’t you be trying to save them with every breath you take? If you have the compassion of Christ, then you have a funny way of showing it.

    Actually, I don’t mean “funny”….I mean sadistic. Take a look at yourself in light of what you say you are.

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  16. jiminiycrickitt said:    
    June 24th, 2005 at 11:38 am

    WOW… this was a fun blog til jimmy cricket joined in with her “reindeer games” and socialized/liberalized views of the Word of God. Start your own blog jimmy and then blast the Bible and Christianity all you like. You are boorish and have RUINED this blog.

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  17. Fezzik said:    
    June 24th, 2005 at 1:13 pm

    Anonymous/cricket/jiminycrickett/CH:

    If Jiminy is so wrong and evil, then debate her points. All you’ve done is call her names and shown your own level of immaturity while hiding in anonymity. Come on out and back up your bile with a little substance, or can you only sit in the corner namecalling and creating accounts misspelling Jiminy’s name?

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  18. JiminyCricket81 said:    
    June 24th, 2005 at 5:36 pm

    jiminiycrickitt,

    Nice name.

    It’s against my better judgment to call you out, and I’m pretty sure I know who you are and why you think you’re so angry with me. However, know that I have a lot of compassion for you (regardless of whether or not my guess about your identity is correct), and I sincerely want to understand the point of view that is driving your angry statements.

    How is advocating love for other beings a socialized/liberalized view of the Word of God? Unless, of course, you’re saying that Jesus is a socialist/liberal (you wouldn’t be the first)…as I recall, this whole love business comes from Jesus’ teachings. If you’re against loving people, you may be affiliating with the wrong faith.

    I haven’t blasted the Bible, and I haven’t blasted Christianity. I’ve simply questioned the views expressed by my fellow bloggers. Finally, you’re not even arguing with me. You’re arguing with what you assume I represent.

    And I must be a lot more powerful than I gave myself credit for if I’ve singlehandedly ruined a blog.

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  19. The Voice of Reason said:    
    June 24th, 2005 at 6:52 pm

    Crick, make no mistake: Jesus was VERY clear that there IS a place of eternal damnation. He made no bones about the fact that He is the way, truth, life and that no man comes to the Father except through him. “Turn or burn,” so to speak. There are a lot of false religions out there preaching the exact same message as you. Whether it sounds harsh or not, there is only one way out of the lake of fire. Yes, we need to be compassionate to people, we need to love one another, we need to be a light to the world. But we also need to be very clear about the only way to eternal life: the blood of Jesus poured out for the redemption of sin for mankind–if, and only IF, one accepts Jesus Christ as the Messiah.

    Maybe the “southern sizzle” thing was harsh, but I agree wholeheartedly with whomever posted that comment.

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  20. Anonymous said:    
    June 26th, 2005 at 12:07 pm

    anon29 - The earth was a garden once and will be again but Adam turned it into a prison and only criminals are born here.Those who claim they are innocent will go to hell, those who admit their guilt and ask for a pardon will receive it. If this doesn’t make sense to you I suggest you request an audience with the warden.

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  21. Anonymous said:    
    June 26th, 2005 at 12:10 pm

    It is false compassion to let a child play in the busy street. It is false love to ignore/dismiss the reality of hell. Jesus said more about Hell than He did about love although He certainly demonstrated love more than wrath.

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  22. JiminyCricket81 said:    
    June 27th, 2005 at 11:01 am

    This post has been removed by the author.

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  23. JiminyCricket81 said:    
    June 27th, 2005 at 11:01 am

    Anonymi and the voice of reason,

    I never said anything contrary to the doctrine you are describing. I am simply asking you what good it does to walk around in the “turn or burn” mindset.

    Do you want people to follow Jesus out of fear of hellfire or do you want people to follow Jesus out of love for Jesus? Sociologists and psychologists have repeatedly found that both guilt and fear are lousy motivators for human behavior. They don’t work that well to begin with and the long-term results are even less promising.

    One of the best sermons I ever heard included the following fable:

    An angel was seen walking around with an enormous torch and a gigantic bucket of water. Someone asked the angel, “What are you doing?” The angel replied, “I’m going to burn down all the mansions of heaven and put out all the fires of hell, and then we’ll see who really loves God.”

    No, I don’t think it’s a true story…that’s not the point. The point is that Christians are supposed to believe that Jesus isn’t just a lifeboat or a failsafe from damnation. A relationship with Jesus based purely on what Jesus is going to bail you out of seems a lot like a relationship with one’s parents based purely on the value of the genetic code they gave you. Speaking from experience, there’s better things to be had. And, if that’s true, love and knowledge of other people is a lot more important than exposing them to the dualistic construction of heaven and hell.

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  24. The Voice of Reason said:    
    June 27th, 2005 at 12:52 pm

    JiminyCricket, just so we’re all on the same page here, could you please affirm or deny whether you believe Jesus is the ONLY way to eternal life?

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  25. JiminyCricket81 said:    
    June 27th, 2005 at 1:10 pm

    Voice of Reason,

    Sorry to be curt, but….

    I’ve enacted my own on-blog policy of not answering personal questions. It has no real bearing on the topic at hand.

    The issue here is whether we see the world through a lens primarily colored by real personal love or by the threat of damnation.

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  26. Jeremy said:    
    June 27th, 2005 at 5:28 pm

    Now there’s something to debate. (Should I open this can of worms? As if we’re running out of stuff to talk about…)

    Is Jesus the only way to eternal life? Seems like an easy answer, doesn’t it? What’s makes us Christians so special that we can say that we’re going to heaven and people of other religions aren’t? Is it because of what the Bible says? Am I just lucky that since I grew up in a Christian home I have an automatic ticket? What about people that will never hear about Jesus? What about people that heard the “gospel”, but it was from a crazy guy at Pioneer Place holding a “Turn or Burn” sign? Does everyone that praises Allah get a quick trip to hell just because they didn’t “ask Jesus in their heart”? What’s really at the heart of salvation? Any ex-PBCers want to educate me?

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  27. The Voice of Reason said:    
    June 27th, 2005 at 6:37 pm

    Actually, Jiminy, it is very relevant. Your non-answer is an answer in itself, which makes this whole discussion pointless after all. Sad, really. There were martyrs who were burned at the stake because they wouldn’t deny Christ, even privately. And here you won’t publicly affirm a belief in His exclusive redemption, even from behind a veil of anonymity.

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  28. JiminyCricket81 said:    
    June 27th, 2005 at 6:51 pm

    Voice of Reason,

    That’s not an argument.
    That’s a smear campaign.
    (And, if you’re interested, the logical/argumentative fallacy commonly known as a Bulverism)

    Eeeeeeeeeeennnnnk! [buzzer sound]
    Try again.

    Let’s hear what the theology buffs have to say to Jeremy. I’ve already gotten in trouble once for citing C.S. Lewis, so I’ll refrain….

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  29. Anonymous said:    
    June 27th, 2005 at 7:34 pm

    Pthaaaaaaaaaph! [sound of monkeys flying out of Jiminy’s big fat butt…]

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  30. Jeremy said:    
    June 27th, 2005 at 7:52 pm

    Aaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrgggggghhhhhh! [sound of Jeremy screaming in frustration at idiocy in general]

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  31. Anonymous said:    
    June 27th, 2005 at 7:59 pm

    Woooooooooop! Woooooooooop! AAAA! AAAA! AAAA! AAAA! [sound of a car alarm, piercing the quiet night]

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  32. JiminyCricket81 said:    
    June 28th, 2005 at 12:46 pm

    Anonymous,

    How do you know I have a big fat butt? Have you been watching me from the phone booth again? Do I need to file another virtual restraining order?

    Oops! That wasn’t monkeys, that was gas….didn’t think you’d be able to hear it from the phone booth.

    Excuse me.

    Or maybe you think that monkeys customarily fly out of the posteriors of people who refuse to answer irrelevant and inappropriate questions?

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  33. Fezzik said:    
    June 28th, 2005 at 3:03 pm

    Voice of Reason:

    Please outline for the class how Jiminy’s refusal to respond to your challenege of her beliefs equates to her denying Christ. Wouldn’t you think her speaking of the love of Christ and relating of her favorite sermons make it rather plan where her beliefs lie? If so, why ask that question unless you’re trying to focus attention away from the topic at hand.

    Speaking of which, why don’t you explain how any of that line of questioning in any way, shape, or form applies to her stance against using fire and brimstone to scare people into converting to Christ. Are you trying to contribute to the discussion at hand, or are you just playing assassinate the messenger of a stance you can’t refute?

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  34. FICM said:    
    June 30th, 2005 at 9:00 am

    Hm, well this sure took an interesting turn. I can understand not wanting to divulge personal info, and I can also understand why that’s not a valid debate technique…

    But it seems a bit silly to be debating what we believe about God, the church, life, etc. on this blog and when someone asks us to clarify those beliefs we hide behind the shield of debate forensics?

    I personally believe that Jesus is the only way to God - the Bible makes that very clear. It’s been repeated over and over again by the bloggers that the whole point of said blog is to point out the actions of CBC leadership that seemed to be focused on tithing and legalism instead of preaching the Gospel. Sometimes it’s done with satire and sometimes it’s just statin’ the facts. But the point is, we’d rather just see people believe in Jesus (as opposed to money or rules) as THE WAY to God.

    I thought this topic was funny because it points out the fact that so many Christians are willing to categorize themselves and criticize each other rather than preach the Gospel. And I think there are certainly good ways of doing it, and bad ways of doing it. And ironically, this post has dengerated into the same bickering among Christians and even implied accusations that someone might not be a Believer because of opinions on how the message should be preached.

    1) Let’s all agree to preach the Gospel. 2) Let’s not accuse each other for opinions that don’t affect our Salvation. 3) Don’t be afraid to share your beliefs about the Gospel - that’s the whole point of why we’re here.

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  35. JiminyCricket81 said:    
    June 30th, 2005 at 4:34 pm

    FICM,

    I think you may have mistaken my meaning. I’m not hiding. I’m just not interested in being the focus of any more blog-versations. It feels inappropriate.

    And as for the subject of debate…well, I think that IS an important aspect of this blog. That’s precisely what CBC didn’t/doesn’t want: people engaging their brains and talking to each other about the reality of what’s going on. The whole idea is for everyone to march in the same line. Dunno if anyone remembers the old-old days when they held a vote on the church constitution and forced people to sign their ballots, but that was a classic example. No one is supposed to think for themselves (let alone think outside the box) and if they do, it’s an occasion for the leadership to ferret them out, get involved, and start reprimanding (which was exactly what happened back then).

    It’s not that I think we shouldn’t be one body, and it’s not that I’m not in favor of like-mindedness or solidarity or any of that. I’m just not in favor of turning off our brains because thinking is scary. Mindless bickering is one thing, and honest discourse is quite another. For these reasons, I actually think that the work of the church is not just tied up with preaching the gospel, but with being responsible thinkers to and for one another.

    And, as I said before, telling people they’re going to hell is still NOT an effective way to get them to want to talk to you, let alone get them to want to be like you. If it was, “Go to Hell!” wouldn’t be a statement of angry dismissal, it’d be a pick-up line. People want to dialogue with people who are interested in their lives, which is strange, since evangelism generally teaches people to talk and not listen. It seems like there’s occasion to return to the drawing board. And, maybe it’s a good idea to practice listening and intelligent, anger-free questioning on one another first.

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