Thank you for your honest comments. I was recently pulled into a meeting with my church about this blog, they felt like it was un-Christ like (I think they are right) and that it would turn non-Christians away from God (I think they are wrong). So, it’s good to get your perspective.
The truth is that this blog isn’t really meant for people outside the church. I’m surprised that you even find it funny since so much of it revolves around “inside” jokes. None the less, I’m glad that you do. There are many great things about religion and many more about God. The problem is that we humans make mistakes. A lot of them. That’s where this blog comes into play.
I spent a lot of time in one church running around in a circle. God was nothing more than a celebrity we all claimed to be best friends with, but had really never met. Sure, we read lots of books about Him and we went to lots of meetings about Him, and even talked to Him before meals and bed, but 20 years later I realized that he wasn’t talking back. Maybe I just wasn’t listening I guess, but the point is I didn’t have a relationship with Him.
That’s when I left one church for another.
Now, I would like to believe that church should have little to do with your ability to have a relationship with God; and in some ways I think that’s true, but the fact is that when I changed churches I met Jesus. Really, it was the first time that someone actually explained Grace to me. It’s quite interesting how it all works. The first step is to screw up (done) and then the second step is usually to screw up again (also done again and again) and then comes the good part, salvation. After that your role is pretty much left to accepting forgiveness, every time you make a mistake. It’s really quite refreshing.
I used to think the goal was to stop making mistakes, which it is, but since no one will ever do that… well thank God for the grace of Jesus. There are so many Christians out there who think religion is all about being “better” than everyone else. They build themselves a platform to sit on and look around and say I’m better than you and you and you, well maybe not you…we’re tied, but I’m better than all of them. It’s as if they think God is going to grade on a curve and they only have to be better than most. If God were going to judge on any kind of curve we would all burn.
(Right now there are tons of CBC members yelling at their computers saying “That’s what you are doing to us. You think you are better than us. OHH HE MAKES ME SO MAD I WANT TO CUSS… that son of bitches.” Well, CBC, before you go asking for forgiveness for your foul language let me just say; in many ways you are right. It does look like I’m sitting on my pedestal judging you. But, I hope you can see that I’m really trying to judge myself and my behavior while at CBC and not you.)
So, I guess that brings me back to where I wanted to go with this before I started ranting:
Please do not judge Christ by this blog or by the people on this blog. We are terrible sinners and could never do God justice, but He is worth getting to know. And try to ignore Anonymous, he is a complete coward who’s issues stem from a hatred for his mother (probably).
I don’t know if any of this is interesting to you or not, but thanks again for your comments. It’s good to get your perspective.
By the way, I’m curious what you were looking for on Google when you found us? If you would like to respond without the annoying comments from Anonymous, you can email me @ mortonjp14@hotmail.com
Truth is a precious possession and hard to come by, either in the church or out of it. Some friends and former students urged me to check out your blogger site recently when my friend, Ken Ross, and I were the topic of conversation. I expected to see some misinformation, but mostly the dialogue seemed earnest and many of the participants seemed genuinely interested in the truth. From what little I have seen of this site I cannot imagine that it would turn away a non-believer since most people already hold presuppositions about the church. It is truth that most people want, deep in their lonely souls. In spite of the criticisms, obvious biases and occasional misinformation, I want to applaud you, the younger generation, for your hospitality to honest dialogue. Just remember that eventually you will need to come up with some answers as well as criticisms too. Meanwhile, thanks for providing a forum for people to honestly divulge their thoughts and feelings. Honesty without malice never hurt the cause of Christ, and people who live honestly have little to hide. Blessings. LT
LOL. All of your issues read like a 2010 Judah Smith sermon on grace. Funny how God has His way of working out all things for the good of those who love Him.
(and to think, he did it without you and your ranting and raving blog)
In the end, God is having is way at CBC, TCC, and many of the other MFI churches…people are getting saved, grace is preached, bodies healed, devils cast out, and hey..even some prosperity hits people who tithe…who’d a thunk it?
Be blessed man, I’m just teasing like you do, but it’s time to move on. Take it as “a word” if you want…God wants more for you than this.
I’m happy to just agree to disagree.
I’ve heard Judah’s sermons on Grace and they are seriously lacking substance (thats just my opinion of course…but its one of the reasons we blog here).
I don’t hear Grace being preached at CBC and TCC…I hear religion. I’d love to hear more about the “bodies that were healed”…last I checked Frank was still searching for Miracles he could claim for his book….same goes for Devils cast out (but hey, most Christians are gullable and will take your word for it, so if it sounds good say it…right?) and we all know how well the Prosperity Doctrine has worked out. That’s why CBC has had to make so many cuts to the payroll lately…seems like God isn’t bigger than the recession.
You be blessed too, buddy. I love the teasing and could do this for at least another hour or 2 before it gets old.
Real quick though…
Take it as “a word”? Do you feel God has called you to call us out?
How aggorant.
Twice, I was told I was healed… and pam! Nadda. Only God can heal, and it doesn’t make an ounce of difference what any of the fake “fancy word speakers” say about it. One person told me to stop seeing the doctor. Problem got worse and I went into a relapse after just a couple days. Yeah, stupid idea. Another, in front of more than 3000 people, I was told I was healed (by a BIG name) – I was sent off, they NEVER followed up, and I was worse off for it – more time in a cast. So, all those people… yeah, give me some statistics… before/after reports. YES, God heals. YES, God heals through people. YES, God may heal through these particular pastors. NO, God doesn’t just heal because you say so,… and I think it’s dangerous ground to say simply, “YOU ARE HEALED”. I mean, in that whole speech I was given by two different people, it wasn’t God who was healing me, it was “I have a word for you – you’re healed”. So, Mrhopper… your “word” is just that… a word. A typed word. To even HINT that it’s a word from God… makes me sick. People who do that shouldn’t be in leadership, and need to reevaluate the damage they’re doing in the lives of vulnerable, hurting people. Because, those people who are told, “you’re healed”, HURT. Spiraling… it’s painful to think you didn’t have enough faith to be healed, when they said you were healed. It’s humiliating. It’s confusing. It leaves you thinking, “wow, does God not really heal?” when I know He does… just not through them. Do you get angry at the preacher or God or yourself or the person next to you? I guess I’m still unsure about it all. I hope you take some of what I’m saying to heart. Be careful. Your words can mean life or death for someone who needs a touch from God. Are you going to show them WHO they can get it from (God alone) or are you going to pretend to “be” God and just be a “let-down” substitute?
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Um…I wonder if Judah was given the opportunity to study his fathers’ notes over all the years. That could explain the low substance of his messages as the previous blogger suggests.
I don’t get the impression that his messages are original. No matter.I really don’t care, (she said, with a chuckle).
I am confused, is it Mr. Grass Hopper? If it is, then, that would answer a whole lot of questions. LOL
Wow. I was really in a bad place 5-6 months ago. A bit angry, put out. I apologize – I’m sorry. Things have changed and I’m in a great church… one that is pastoral, strong in the Word and doesn’t pressure anyone to “act”, but to “live”. It’s a tough transition, and I still feel sometimes as though I “judge” those who doesn’t act the way CBC requires, when often, those actions are not even ones the Bible requires. It’s an adjustment of my understanding – my relationship with the Lord, my understanding of God’s grace, and my submission to authority… all have been turned upside down, and the waves are just starting to calm.
[Comment ID #39041 Will Be Quoted Here]Good to hear you are doing better! For whatever reason, a book I have read came to mind as I looked at your post. “A Tale of Three Kings” by Gene Edwards. If you haven’t read it, give it a try.
TTFN
I just came across this blog today. Wasn’t intending to, just had been curious these last months about old BT associations from many years ago. Anyway it pretty much floored me these same issues still bother me after all these years. I thought I had gotten over the guilt/anger/disorientation of leaving the so-called covering at least 20 years ago. But hearing more recent stories of the next generation come-outers being screwed up convinces me, “Houston we still have a problem”.
Just an opinion, but I think just having this site still staying open and functioning for the next wave of hurting people is a valid ministry
I agree. Welcome.
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Wow Jay – Thanks for coming along and validating that the issues that bothered us then might still bother us now! I’m still getting subtle hints (some not so subtle) that we have taken far too long to ‘get over it’ after leaving the MFI world 5 or 6 years ago. and that’s just our story – I think the ones who started this blog left their MFI church even before we left ours.
Our point all along has been that blogging has been very instrumental in helping us process all we went through. Something wrong was going on, it effected us, we left that world, it effected us, but we are moving on and getting over it. However, the bad behavior of the old world still bothers us because it’s still HAPPENING TO OTHER PEOPLE!
I agree that it’s good to have this blog up – a place for survivors! We can come and go freely – check back in to see what the blog is saying lately. . .
Thanks for the welcome. Nice to meet all you sinners lol. Wish I had had this years ago. All we could do then was huddle together in very small groups in secret and talk about what we’d been taught not to ever talk about (that the church or someone in leadership might actually be doing something wrong) We didn’t know back then that it was only the beginning of a plague of abuse that would spread through out the body of Christ.
And I guess I’m realizing now, that just as in other types of abuse situations, church abuse can take years of healing
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Yes and it’s probably different for each person as to how long it takes. My friend describes it as another layer coming off. When a layer comes off it usually exposes something else, lol. But the Lord is interested in making us whole and completing the good work he started in us! Thankfully we can take it one step at a time and trust him for the details and the outcome.
This comment “when a layer comes off… ” reminds me of an entry from a poetry book I once owned (ie: I don’t remember who said it) – If, like a fragile flower,torn petal by petal, my heart must continue to tear, let there be fragrance.
Sometimes all it takes is a little perspective. We can all look back and see areas of our lives where we wonder ” was God even there?” And often, in the middle of the chaos we cry out, “Can you see this, God? Do you know what’s going on here?” But after we’ve gone through the battle, we look back and see His hand was there.
So….where does that leave us….the survivors? We create (hopefully) a soft place for new escapees to land. We give them a listening ear. We help them find perspective (where do I go from here?) and, hopefully, fragrance.
I like that feeling sensitive stuff. I think God made us that way. Thanks detox and barbara. I’m pretty sure Jesus himself is still touched with the “feelings” of our weaknesses, so He cares about all this.
The “get over it” time limit, yeah I remember going through some of that for months or even years after my son had been murdered. Kinda a whole different subject, but what I’ve found there is some pretty big grieving of losses for other things besides death. Divorce is one, and even church can be huge, if it meant a lot to you for a good period of time.
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That’s beautiful Barbara – that’s it exactly!
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Wow Jay – having to go through that with your son makes everything else pale in comparison. Not to minimize the church thing, but still! With your son I’m sure there is no time limit of getting over it – how could a parent ever truly come to terms with losing a child, at least on a consistent basis? Anyway, you must be right on the depths of grieving that come with important losses, some of which we may never ‘get over’.
Hopefully, Jay, you’ll never get over your experiences with the Church. If you “get over it” how would you be able to be there for someone else going through the same pain? I left PBC / BT 25 years ago, and no, I am not over it. I have moved on, I am done with that stage in my life, but no, I remember so that I can warn others to avoid the quicksand that made up that part of my life.
Welcome to the Blog that will give you life and hope again. Your not alone. Weren’t you taught that the Devil wants you to think that you are the only one experiencing pain or “unbelief”? Ironically, this time it is with the Church “SIN” and not the world’s “sin”. Those–the Church–are warning you to be wary of deception are those propagating the deception. The wolf is in sheep’s clothing.