Is City Bible growing?
Posted on October 25th, 2005 by catalyst into the Uncategorized categoryI’m taking a break from the Top Ten to ask a quick question. Is City Bible’s membership actually increasing in numbers? I’m asking because I just read a comment from FICM stating,
You can talk about alleged church growth at CBC, but the simple fact remains, that over the past 5 years, attendance at CBC has steadily decreased to the point that they actually removed half of the seating so it wouldn’t be so painfully obvious that they were half empty.
Is this true? I was cruising the new hip CBC website and found this little statement in PF’s bio.
Under Pastor Frank’s leadership, City Bible Church has continued to grow and become an influential, multi-campus church impacting the culture in Portland, Oregon, the Northwest and across the country.
I thought this statement was odd, because usually when a company (and that’s what this church is.. a company) brags about their growth they throw in a figure like, “Attendance has increased 20% in the last five years” or “our congregation has increased 50%” …but it just says the church has “continued to grow”. Kind of vague if you ask me.
Anyway, I don’t think the church is growing in numbers. They may be growing in “complaints about tithing” but not in actual people.
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October 25th, 2005 at 9:36 am
I’ve noticed the numbers getting smaller and smaller. It seems like no one goes to church anymore.
Maybe it’s just summer.
October 25th, 2005 at 10:55 am
Except it’s almost November and not Summer anymore.
Reminds me of a quote from this year’s sure-to-be Best Picture Oscar Winner “Wedding Crashers”
Owen Wilson: “I’m still young.”
Hottie from The Notebook: “You’re not that young.”
October 25th, 2005 at 1:41 pm
I don’t live in Portland anymore but have regularly attended CBC while on vacation up there in order to see old friends. I have commented to my spouse that it gets emptier and emptier each time I am there. I think it’s a dinosaur who’s meteor is coming.
October 25th, 2005 at 1:55 pm
Yay!!! meteors -_-
October 25th, 2005 at 2:05 pm
My brother JP sent me a quote from there website, mentioning that they are planning on opening 9 different locations/churches. I bet CBC sells the main campus soon, and then take the money and re-directs it to opening smaller churches. This way they can get out of subsidizing PBC and CCHS, and focus their profits on developing the many campuses.
October 25th, 2005 at 5:24 pm
I would say that attendance is up, but with the church having 7 total services ( 2 Sat night on West side, 2 Sun morning on East and West, 1 Spanish service on West side, not to mention the Russian, Laotion, and Romanian services, the people are very spread out. I would say that the church is still moving along at a steady pace. I know that membership is up and that each time they do membership class, somthing like 200 are enrolled in the class. I would say that CBC is a growing church. Yes the plan is to expand to 9, yes 9, campuses. So they are priming themselves for future growth. The church is now looking at property in the Couve to come and plant the third campus there. So Vancouver, here they come!!! I would have to add at the end of this message, that I support CBC. I would have to say that the methodology might not be the way I would build the church. I may not like everything they do, but I have to say they are at least doing something. They have a college that are training tomorrows leaders, a high school, a rehab place to lay down addictions in lives (Celebrate Recovery), a youth ministry that ministers to over 700 young people every week, a down town service with 200 in regular attendance on Wed nights, a childrens ministry that have over 500 kids on a weekly basis. This church may not be perfect, but I can say that they are doing more than the average church is doing. I promise you I am not a blind supporter, blindly toanything. I am a free thinker who has opinions, but I am challenged to think that this place has touched thousands, and I have probably touched just a few. So I would say, I have thoughts, but I want to be someone who builds the church, not tears it down.
October 25th, 2005 at 5:39 pm
Programs are great…however, I’ve been to many Youth Camps, Conferences and other programs that didn’t produce a whole lot.
Hype is so overrated.
October 25th, 2005 at 5:42 pm
I haven’t step foot into city bible in over two years and I know they still count me in membership.
October 25th, 2005 at 7:04 pm
Seven indicators of a growing church:
1. Nearly 300 active small groups, a number that grows every year.
2. Two Sunday services expanding to four Sunday services, two Saturday services and a Spanish service over the course of two years.
3. One Wednesday youth service expanding to three Wednesday youth services over the course of two years.
4. One location expanding to three locations over the course of two-and-a-half years.
5. A 20% spike in attendance at PBC over the course of a single summer.
6. 400 Thanksgiving dinner boxes delivered last year, and even more this year.
7. 500 specific Christmas gifts bought by the church last year for kids of single parents and families facing financial hardship… and even MORE coming this year.
October 25th, 2005 at 7:23 pm
My question is why does CBC need to open 9 campuses? This is supposed to be a church for crying out loud, not a freakin’ business. I heard from a friend that attends CBC that the future locations will be in East Vancouver, West Vancouver, Wilsonville, Clackamas, Gresham, Downtown Portland. I can’t remember the last one… Anyway, why does Frank have to open locations in places where other leaders from the church have locations. Bob Isabell and Bob MacGregor are in Vancouver and Joel Hjerdstedt is in Clackamas. Does this mean that Frank thinks that he can do a better job than them? I don’t get it.
October 26th, 2005 at 6:06 am
Those indicators don’t mean the church is growing.
That just means you have a big church with lots of meetings and programs.
They have a membership dictionary. They must know specifically how many people are members from year to year. I don’t think they’re growing.
October 26th, 2005 at 6:53 am
Ahh, the United States…where growth means quantity, not quality. Where it’s all about how much you’ve got and how good it looks, and to hell with how deep it is, who’s really benefitting, who’s really suffering as a result. Why acknowledge the unfortunate and inconvenient fact that the slick-brochure veneer is only a veneer, and that real people suffer poverty and neglect at their hands?
It doesn’t matter, right? As long as you’ve got a great website and new carpet and some absurd number of souped-up services enriched with the cultural values of Microsoft PowerPoint and Kate Spade. Oh, and don’t forget about the youth programs where kids learn how to get hyped up and disenchanted on a regular basis, from the youngest age possible. Yes, they deliver food baskets and buy people Christmas presents…activities which comprise what percentage of their annual revenue?
Glad to see that CBC’s supporters (apologists) are still watching and posting…as soon as anyone hits them close to home. Say what you like about their principles, but don’t say numbers are down. It’s not such a big deal if things are rotten at the core, as long as they look good, right?
Smells like bullshit to me.
October 26th, 2005 at 12:43 pm
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October 26th, 2005 at 12:45 pm
Ahh Ms. Cricket, that is why I love living in Canada so much, nothing is overblown and a quality church is about quality not just about numbers. While I know there are some churches in the great white north that are not so great the majority of the churches I have been involved in have quality people in leadership leading quality people. See my church at -http://www.gladtidings.bc.ca/
October 26th, 2005 at 1:27 pm
CANADA SUCKS!
October 26th, 2005 at 2:30 pm
Thanks anon, appreciate your support.
October 26th, 2005 at 2:47 pm
I checked out your church Mack,
I am very impressed with what I found under upcoming events:
MISSIONS CONFERENCE:
Our theme this year is “OTHERS”. Chuck and Bobbie Hamm, our missionaries home from the Philippines, will be speaking at the banquet on Nov. 4th, and Rick & Dee Bergen, our missionaries home from Brazil, will be speaking at the conference on Sunday morning, Nov. 6th. Banquet tickets are $8.00 each and are available from the church office.
“Our theme this year is “OTHERS”.”
An $8.00 conference about “OTHERS”… what are they some kind of “not for profit” and “care for others” charity?
Now that sounds like an “A2″ church.
October 26th, 2005 at 3:06 pm
Pope - Thanks, I think.
We’ve recently moved and while we consider that our home church as it feels most like home, we’re now going to this one:
http://www.ctkgibsons.com/
I’d have to say for 100 people on average we’re doing good.
Good site by the way.
October 26th, 2005 at 9:37 pm
It is definitely shrinking.
for sure.
October 27th, 2005 at 9:14 am
To bring back a great line ” a pile of crap will atrack alot of flies so don’t get to excited yet.” Faithfullness to the bible and the Lord is more important than Success in terms of numbers and events. The circus allways pulls in alot of people. Bring on the midgets and the bearded lady. Late
October 27th, 2005 at 12:39 pm
Why so many Anonymous’? What are you fearing?
CBC is unbalanced, especially in reference to Dick Iverson’s book on having a balanced church when the winds of doctrine blow. Where is the leadership that will stand up and say ” this is wrong!”, have they all sold out in favor of a salary? Who is going to be Nathan here?
October 27th, 2005 at 1:10 pm
Any leader that would oppose El Franko has either left the church or been demoted until they left.
Frank stacked his leadership with “Yes” men. This is okay, as long as you don’t make mistakes. But if you get on the wrong track, like “Speaking on tithing for 18 straight sermons”, then you have no one to tell you to stop.
…also, I like that comment by Dick Iverson. A church is more than its doctrine, and it need to remain stable when the doctrine changes…
October 28th, 2005 at 4:27 pm
I’m Anonymous because I go to The Well and my pastor said not to blog here anymore. And I don’t have the balls to tell him to stick it up his ass.
October 28th, 2005 at 10:21 pm
Anonymous, I once had a pastor (trained by PF) who told me who I could have for friends and who I couldn’t. Finally one day I put down the Koolaid cup and walked away.
January 24th, 2006 at 2:38 am
catalyst. are you mad at the church personaly or are going by what John Paul and Tannell tell you
March 27th, 2006 at 4:21 pm
Actually buddy… CBC has grown to over 5,000 REGULAR attendee’s… up from 3,000 in 1999… it helps if you actually do some research instead of just by how “empty” it looks.
March 27th, 2006 at 4:33 pm
Sure… and they still have my whole family listed as “members” even though we haven’t been there in years.
It helps if you don’t buy all their bull.
March 27th, 2006 at 4:42 pm
Unless your name is Pastor Frank, or you have some other solid backing of the number you just mentioned…. then what’s the difference with *your* number and say…. 3,001 people?
Is that you, Frank?
March 27th, 2006 at 9:48 pm
Someone in leadership at City Bible told me the reason they removed the seats from the auditorium was because the government told City Bible they didn’t have enough parking for all the seats they had. They would have had to rezone and reconstruct the whole parking lot to meet city standards so they removed the seats instead.
March 27th, 2006 at 9:50 pm
May God give us the maturity to see the stick in our own eye, before we try to remove the speck in someone else’s, so that one of the signs of a growing church would be a pile of “sticks” at the front door!
March 28th, 2006 at 3:50 pm
Then we could light those “sticks” on fire! Fire for god, um, of course.
March 28th, 2006 at 5:25 pm
Ha! Ha! Absolutely hilarious…:)