The Price Has Already Been Paid
Posted on November 2nd, 2005 by Reformed Pope into the Conferences categoryThe “Eternity” play is now showing at your local CBC campus and I wanted to share a few excerpts from their website http://www.eternityproduction.com/index.html and then give a few thoughts of my own.
For those who don’t know, "Eternity" is a play where they show people dying and going to either heaven (if you’re a good person) or hell (if you’re gay). It basically uses scare tactics to get people to the alter. Yes, it’s effective for short term results; NO, it’s not effective for long term goals. Fear only motivates for a short time; people get numb too quickly.
With that in mind, here’s what they have to say:
They said: “Eternity" is an intense dramatic presentation of the Gospel that shows the reality of life after death… Heaven or Hell.
RP said: Really? Maybe a better title would have been “Heaven’s Gates/ Hell’s Flames”.
They said: City Bible Church determined to better impact their community for Christ. In 1996, Senior Pastor Frank Damazio and Pastor Ed Schefter set out to develop an outreach that would win souls by activating the local church. As a result, Eternity was built to be a relevant and hard hitting ninety-minute stage presentation to preach the gospel of Christ.
RP said: Let me re-write this accurately:
As you can see, not only do I think “Eternity” is a waste of time; I also think it’s a plagiarized waste of time. Now, what does the Bible say about stealing? (Exodus 20:15 Thou shalt not steal). But, I suppose if you change the music it’s not really stealing. Isn’t that right, Ed?
City Bible Church determined to better impact their community for Christ and make a little cash on the side. In 1996 Senior Pastor Frank Damazio and Pastor Ed Schefter stole an outreach that would win souls by activating the local church. As a result, the play "Heaven’s Gates / Hell’s Flames" was renamed "Eternity" and they’ve been taking credit for it ever since.
For those of you interested in learning about the real “Eternity” please visit http://mze.com/heavensgates/
For those of you not wanting to waste your time; please don’t visit either site.
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November 2nd, 2005 at 1:23 pm
The only thing missing from this post it the #7… as in THAT’S THE SEVENTH GREATEST POST EVER!
November 2nd, 2005 at 4:06 pm
Why doesn’t someone just set the domes alight and get it over with???
Someone should roll into the Service on a beautiful Sunday morning and calmly let all the “faithful” know that whoever would like to enter Eternity today can do so.
All the faithful have to do is stay in the quickly disappearing domes.
And voila!!! Eternity here we come with our pure souls white as snow and fluffy as sheeps wool.
The End.
November 2nd, 2005 at 5:50 pm
Great Story.
November 2nd, 2005 at 6:25 pm
Coming soon to a CBC campus near you:
Frank was a simple pilo… cruise ship captain (yes that’s original). He was living a sinful life when suddenly all of the true believers in the world disapear, and Frank finds himself…LEFT BELOW!!!
Don’t let yourselves be LEFT BELOW!!! Come see this relevant, uplifting and above all original play. Ticket prices start at $49.95.
November 2nd, 2005 at 9:44 pm
So I was at Eternity and Frank was introducing Ed.. and he was like “And here’s the man who wrote the play!” and he said that like 3 times.
November 2nd, 2005 at 10:26 pm
AMEN! I’d like to revise JP’s paragraph just sightly:
City Bible Church determined to make cash and numbers which would both further its image of success. In 1996 Senior Pastor Frank Damazio and Pastor Ed Schefter stole an outreach that would bring weak Christians to the altar in as many churchces as possible. As a result, the play “Heaven’s Gates / Hell’s Flames” was renamed “Eternity” and they’ve been taking credit for it ever since, praying with back-slidden Christians to “re-dedicate their lives” ever since.
As one who used to volunteer as an “altar worker” at Eternity, I can tell you that ALL of those I prayed with already “knew Christ,” but were seriously struggling. Maybe there have been some authentic conversions, but the main “fruit” of this has been money for Frank & Ed, along with
bragging rights over the (alleged) numbers of people “impacted” by this plagarized play. This type of “outreach” is completely ineffective…not necessarily because it’s fear-based, although I doubt the effectiveness of that approach (”Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God” aside). One-on-one relationships where unbelievers can see the kindness, love and holiness of God lived out through his people, are effective in winning souls. Apart from all of that, how could God bless “Eternity” given that it was stolen?!
GREAT TOPIC because this perfectly ilustrates the rotten core of CBC.
November 2nd, 2005 at 11:12 pm
at least the play is free and so is the parking
November 3rd, 2005 at 7:35 am
I’ll bet all the people in Ed’s inner circle back in 96 who wrote those all those vignettes would be interested to know that “Ed wrote the play”.
Acctually they already know because Ed gets the royalties for each performance, they got the sastifaction that they did something to save souls.
November 3rd, 2005 at 9:06 am
Tell me it isn’t true that Ed gets royalties from his plagerized play.
November 3rd, 2005 at 9:54 am
“Apart from all of that, how could God bless “Eternity” given that it was stolen?!”
Have you learned nothing from all that we teach? God blesses those who give, so you had to plagerize another church; as long as you are giving God is blessing.
Besides, that other church has only one campus.
November 3rd, 2005 at 11:16 am
“Tell me it isn’t true that Ed gets royalties from his plagerized play.”
I’ll have to disagree with “plagerized”. By definition this is not the same. Anyone who has the misfortune of remembering Heaven’s Gates, Hell’s Flames should remember that:
1. People started a skit, and (in the style of Jack Chick) reject or accept “salvation”.
2. At that moment a car crashes or an anvil falls on their heads and they die and wake up in pre-judgement Heaven.
3. Satan yells and Jesus hugs, and then on to the next skit.
Those that have the misfortune of remembering Eternity will recall that:
A. The skit starts with people waking up in purgatory.
B. They flash back to life decisions
C. They come back only to be drug off to hell, or get hugged.
Really the only similarities are screaming satan, hugging jesus, and short skits. If this was plagerism, then by definition every Easter play, Christmas story, and cop-turned-vigilante movie would be guilty.
That being said:
I think we can all see how Frank would watch HGHF, and in all of its crappy Jack Chick preachy-ness decide that it could be improved.
However, even though the idea wasn’t “original”, it isn’t illegal, or even morally questionable (in the buisness world), to take a crappy product and make it a slightly less crappy one. Provided the inovations are all your own.
Here’s what you all should be concerned about:
1. How much $$ does CBC make from materials sales for these events?
The salvation packets and branded merchandise (T-shirts) all come from CBC, and the churches HAVE to buy this stuff from CBC.
2. a. How much $$ does Ed Schefter make from royalties for these events?
2. b. Who wrote the skits that made the show so popular, and does Ed give them a kickback from his royalties?
Don’t belive he gets royalties?
I can’t give you their tax information, but go to the US Copyright office (http://www.copyright.gov/records/cohm.html)
and do a search for registration number: PA-772-926
Notice that CBC (and the other authors of the skits) are not identified anywhere on the copyright? Even CBC has to pay him to show the play.
3. Other churches pay them money to grow their churches. Arguably the salvation numbers that they claim to have would be a major selling point.
How many of the claimed salvations are made by people over 18, and are not re-dedications?
(Personally I think they both suck, and are a waste of many Christian’s time and money.)
November 3rd, 2005 at 11:22 am
Why is it that anonymous and Brian are never in the same place at the same time?
November 3rd, 2005 at 11:57 am
How do people find these things?
You are correct, there probably isn’t enough similarities to qualify as plagerism, but let’s be honest, its essentially the same show.
Why didn’t City Bible just copywrite the play, and keep all the revenus themselves.
Better Yet. Just write a new play titled “Salvation/Damnation” and then you don’t have to pay anyone.
November 3rd, 2005 at 12:42 pm
Since our primary “home” is the Kingdom of God, not the business world, I would continue to contend that CBC’s “adaptation” of HGHF, subsequent re-naming & copy-righting of it, and its continued financial benefit is immoral and unethical. And, at one point, one of the churches that purchased the whole Eternity package adapted some of the music and Ed threw a fit, accusing them of plagarism. Ironic, don’t you think?
You’re right, those who helped Ed “adapt” HGHF do not receive royalties, only Ed does. Another interesting piece of this “story” is the direct correlation between Ed’s copyright of Eternity and his joining CBC as staff. He’s now a “pastor” as well as a “slum lord” with a number of rental properties–purchased with Eternity royalties.
I agree, neither play is at all effective!
Things that make you go “hmmm…”
November 3rd, 2005 at 1:29 pm
“slum lord”
We can burn those too!!!
November 3rd, 2005 at 5:13 pm
The end does not justify the means.
I personally know some people who were saved dramatically at Eternity. These were not backsliders. They were truly lost.
All this shows is that the Lord Himself is so humble that He will use all kinds of vehicles to bring people to Himself.
I was saved because I was scared to death to go through the Tribulation, and I was shown pictures of what it would be like in the Plain Truth magazine. What 7-year old wouldn’t give their heart to Jesus when faced with that? Should we adopt this method as an evangelistic tool for children? (shudder)
So all these people that say, “Well it’s ok because people are getting saved” need to go read Matthew 7:21-23.
November 3rd, 2005 at 5:34 pm
21″Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven.
Matthew 7:21-23.
22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name? Did we not drive out demons in your name? Did we not do mighty deeds in your name?’
23 Then I will declare to them solemnly, ‘I never knew you. Depart from me, you evildoers.’
November 4th, 2005 at 6:14 am
Does anyone see any similarities between Ed Shafter and the main character “Corky” from Waiting for Guffman?
-For those of you who haven’t seen it, the movie is a mockumentary by Christopher Guest (Spinal Tap, Best in Show) where this supposed genius director from New York moves to a small town and directs their community play. Everyone thinks he’s great cause “He’s from NY and Broadway.” Well he was never on broadway and he is sort of a loveable buffoon who creates this uber-cheezy play.
This reminds me of Ed (minus the loveable part) as supposedly Ed was some talented person in his past life, but all I have ever seen is a talent-less hack creating stupid dance moves and spewing out his gigundous ego all over everyone. (Has anyone else been insulted in one of Ed’s director fits?) The best thing he has ever done was to steal/re-write/whatever you want to call it Heaven’s Gates/Hells Flames and repackage it as his own.
For anyone who was around to see Ed’s disasters before Eternity and was present for the Visit from Origional HGHF play you know this to be true.
No disrespect to anyone (including myself) who has ever acted in an Ed Shafter play, I’m sure you all sang and danced your heart out. I’m sure at the time you thought that Corky, I mean Ed, was truly the talent he was touted to be.
November 4th, 2005 at 7:22 am
The difference between Corky and Ed is that Ed has never screamed “I Hate You! I Hate Your ASS FACE!” … but I wish he would I wish he would.
November 4th, 2005 at 9:44 pm
If the royalties and the “borrowing of the concept” are true, then everyone who knew Ed back in his PBC days would agree that they could see this coming. Push, push, push, that was Ed. Man I am glad I don’t live up there anymore. If only half of what I read on this blog is true, I am still disgusted.
November 5th, 2005 at 11:21 pm
Am I interpreting this correctly? Eddie owns a copyright to “eternity play” and makes money off the “ministry” …?????
What a crock. Doesn’t the Bible speak to this? i.e. Money changers in the temple or exalting yourself or something!!
BTW: I always thought he presented himself (had a persona)as more effeminate than masculine.
November 6th, 2005 at 5:35 am
cat,
Don’t forget about “You’re BASTARD people!” That and the “ass-face” quote definitely go together.
Also, Corky was a better dancer than Ed is. And he used live music…bad live music, but his bad live music was better than those shitty recordings of the Hallelujah Chorus. And The Story of Blaine was completely original.
Maybe Ed has his Remains of the Day lunchbox and My Dinner with Andre action figures, after all, though…
November 6th, 2005 at 12:31 pm
I went to the Eternity event this week and was delightfully surprised at how much better it is than four years ago. (By the way, CBC has cool new signs and logos!)
1. Although “Jesus” still looks like a creepy hybrid between Eddie Van Halen and Katherine Kuhlman, I was struck by how the production really exalts him (the real Jesus, not the actor). I only wish they would have given him some speaking parts. “Devil, you pathetic loser, I’m gonna mop this stage up with your skinny little ass!”
2. The “devil” is way better this time around. He’s vigorously youthful and much more sprightly than the old one (which, I believe is probably a more accurate depiction of the real prince of darkness).
3. Although many of the actors (I use that word very loosely) appear to be overdoing it, I got a sense that they really did connect with their characters. The cheerleader girl who, when asked “Why didn’t you tell us?” by her hellbound girlfriends, tearfully replies, “I TRIED to tell you… but you always made fun of me…” sounds a lot like my own youth (minus the lachrymose drama). And so it hit a soft spot for me personally.
Also, the abortionista girl, whose good-fer-nuthin boyfriend is tossed into the fiery pit, does a great job of emoting what it may be like to be parted for all eternity from one’s lascivious paramour. But only for a moment; for down the sweeping staircase comes her REAL boyfriend, the King of Kings, who wipes the tears from her eyes and jubilantly escorts her into Glory. (Clap, clap, clap…)
4. The soldier scene is a real weeper, especially the part where he is deployed into combat and has to say farewell to his sobbing bride. Tissue anyone?
Also, when presented the gospel message from our soldier hero, the sargeant replies, “Lord and Savior? I’M your lord and savior, boy!” Something about it made me glad I’m heterosexual and NOT in the army.
5. The earthy new-age girl reminded me of someone from City Bible Watch. Maybe it was the “ascent to enlightenment” line or the desire to “finally become the goddess I was meant to be” prose. Or maybe it was the airline tickets to Hungary she was clutching in her witchey hands… Not sure exactly. (Oh, that was ONLY a JOKE! Get over it, Gimcrack.)
6. The real scene stealer here was the old folks. FAR more improved from earlier showings, especially the granny… gigantic boobs, big shelfy butt (which she seemed to enjoy scratching) and overstuffed handbag often used as a blunt weapon for pounding her Magoo-like husband. Obviously they end up going to heaven–I mean, who in their right mind would tangle with the AARP and portray this lovable duo going straight to hell? Predictable from that perspective, but thoroughly enjoyable and a good representation of folks who just love God and care for people.
7. I was thrilled to see that the angels dropped the whole raise-the-roof thing each time someone goes to heaven. A bit disappointed, however, that they now do some sweeping arm motions more akin to a Miss Universe half-time show than the way I envision the angels really rejoice upon someone’s entrance through the pearly gates. Seems like there should be some real whoopin’ it up. And next time, I suggest having a cable and harness system whereby we can have angels who actually fly, a’ la Cirque du Soleil. Oh well… I’m not the director. (Hmm, maybe I should be?)
_______
All in all, I think the Eternity event was a much needed improvement over the last time it rolled across the stage.
I don’t get all the criticism about “lasting fruit” or the apparent vendetta toward Ed. I think people should quit pointing fingers at Eternity and stick them back up their butt where they started out in the first place.
Lasting fruit isn’t something I think mortals are in a position to determine. And at least Ed is doing something to spur people to think about eternal issues. A lot of people get less (or no) criticism for doing nothing at all. If he gets a royalty, big deal. Don Miller will be cashing in on royalties from his books for a long time to come. I don’t hear anyone griping about that.
Sure, it’s corny in parts and maybe the whole drama genre is an outdated model for evangelism. But more than once I’ve seen the altars filled with people who were moved to square things up with God… and for that, I think Eternity has merit.
(Alright, Gimcrack, go ahead and unleash your fury now…)
November 6th, 2005 at 12:55 pm
You seemed to have missed the point, again. The royalty is a secondary issue to the fact Ed stole the material from an existing source, copyrighted it, and now profits from work that is mostly not his. My simple little homeschool brain calls that theft and plagiarism, what say you CL?
Another interesting point is Eternity is not an effective witnessing tool. Sure, it generates a big altar call at the end because you’ve scared people into coming forward so they don’t go to hell. What about the weeks/months after that? How many of them actually make a change after their initial fear wears off and follow a real Christian walk? Scaring people into becoming a Christian will never be as effective as sharing God’s love with them. It’s just easier.
November 6th, 2005 at 1:08 pm
Cattle List, I agree with Fezzik, you completely miss the point(s).
1. The only reason I think it’s wrong for Ed to earn royalties from Eternity is because he plagarized it and then copyrighted it. I’m all for people making money from their own work. The Bible actually supports the concept of a person’s ministry providing for him/her. But, gaining financially from someone else’s ideas is wrong. Intellectual Property copyright issues are complex, to be sure, but if HGHF ever decided to make an issue, they would likely have a credible case.
2. Eternity, and similar things, are ineffective in reaching people’s hearts with the Gospel.
November 6th, 2005 at 1:33 pm
Okay, I have to weigh in on this. I used to know Ed Shefter and I don’t think he has done anything wrong. Just becasue there are two things that are similar does not mean that one of them is plagiarized.
First there was Doctor Laura. Now there’s Doctor Phil. Does that make him a plagiarist?
On one hand you have Puprose Driven Life, then you also have Your Best Life Now (virtually the same book). Which one is plagiarized? Okay, mabey that was a bad example.
My point is that if Ed Shefter thought he could make a better depiction of heaven and hell than HGHF he has a right to do so. I don’t believe HGHF has a copyright on portraying judgement day.
November 6th, 2005 at 1:53 pm
Fezzik:
1. What I believe Anonymous meant to say is that Judgment Day is not intellectual property, the theatrical portrayal of which, therefore, cannot be “stolen”. Lots of people produce theatrical performances of the birth of Christ and the Crucifixion. Eternity is no different. If it were a verbatim script, I would agree with you. It isn’t so I don’t.
2. There is, in fact, something very frightening about eternal damnation. To leverage the Gospel message against that isn’t anything new. Ask John the Baptist, St. Thomas Aquinas or Billy Graham. Just because you weren’t saved by “having the hell scared out of you” doesn’t mean the method doesn’t work with others.
Additionally, my friends at CBC tell me that their Evangelism Dept follows up with new converts and plugs them into the church body… which might explain the rapid growth nobody around this blog can seem to figure out.
November 6th, 2005 at 4:44 pm
So if Judgement Day isn’t intellectual property, why did Ed feel the need to copyright his version and freak out when someone made a play similar to his? You can’t have it both ways. Also, why doesn’t he share his royalties with the people that helped him develop his “original” work? Selective capitalism makes people look greedy.
Ah yes, new Eternity converts. What about the “converts” that regress? I’m sure you’re aware of the episode a few years back of the “convert” that plugged into the church and proceeded to rape a little girl from the church? Or does CBC not like to mention their failures? That leads me to my other point that you glossed over. Eternity does not convert people, it scares them. Once the fear wears off down the line, how many of your converts actually become functioning Christians months and years down the line and how many revert to their previous ways? I can scare my dog into obeying me by yelling at him and beating him, but is he obeying out of love or fear? You can change people using fear. but my dog is going to attack me eventually because people (and animals) resent things that repeatedly scare them over time. That’s how you end up with rampant Atheism in the modern world, or do people hate God and Christians just because they’re bad? Why don’t you show me where Jesus promotes using fear to convert people? God is Love (1 John 4:8), not a cosmic father waiting to beat you with His belt.
Please don’t try to reference CBC membership numbers either because I’m still on their memebership rolls and I haven’t visited since I graduated from school.
November 6th, 2005 at 6:32 pm
Fezzik,
I love you.
November 6th, 2005 at 6:40 pm
Cattle List,
I spent a large part of this weekend watching the “Praise-a-thon” on TBN.
They spent most of the time telling me how much they’ve grown and how badly they need my money (for the Gospel of course).
I guess numbers matter in some circles, but here at City Business Church we don’t care about the size of your church.
I could however get you the number to TBN if you’re interested in swapping “war” stories with Benny Hinn.
November 7th, 2005 at 8:23 am
I agree with Fezzik, Fear does not produce real conversions. Only the Holy Spirit produces regeneration in an individual, not our vehicles such as “the eternity play”.
I think it is very arrogant to believe that God needs a play to spread the gospel. He doesn’t need domes or tithe dollars or books or “events”.
How about if Frank tells everyone in the church to have their neighbors over for dinner and let them see the “CBC gospel” in action in the life of the believers. And if that eventually spurs the question of “what makes You different?”, then share the gospel and invite them to a small group or maybe church. (However this will require time and effort on the individual members)
I believe that God wants to use the “local church ” to spread the gospel not as an institution but, rather as a group of individuals commited to living the gospel message out in their own lives.
Funk and flash just wont do it.
November 7th, 2005 at 1:09 pm
Cattle List,
Just for the record, I actually laughed really hard at your crack at my “witchey” and “new age” characteristics. It was funny, really. Not clever, mind you — it was really too far from reality to be clever (although you definitely remember certain details about my life in kind of a scary, stalkerish kind of way). So, thanks for the chuckle.
Oh, and if you don’t mind telling me, why have you changed the spelling of my name? Jimcrack just seems a little more obvious (and frankly, obvious definitely seems to be your style), unless you’re somehow abbreviating “Gimme Crack” or something in that vein…and let me borrow briefly from Corky and say: Your ass face has a crack.
Ok, that was mean and immature….but I just couldn’t help myself.
I’m not really interested in addressing your points….Fezzik is doing quite nicely, and he’s funnier than I am. We all know I think you’re kind of a blowhard, and I’m sure no one is surprised to see me say that I think “Eternity” is a crock of shit from every possible standpoint. It’s like fast food….available in mass quantities for prices that are way too high for the worthless crap you’re actually getting (not that I don’t buy into fast food every once in awhile, but I think most of us would admit that it doesn’t really cut it in the final analysis).
Eternity is “drama” that would never, ever qualify as art in its own right, and it’s also completely unacceptable as an evangelistic device. In its function as an end, it sucks; in its function as a means, it sucks. I’m a little embarrassed to even make this kind of statement because it’s that obvious…to be honest, I can’t understand its appeal at any level or why any reasonable person would be willing to defend it.
November 7th, 2005 at 9:00 pm
Gimcrack:
I didn’t change the spelling of the word, “gimcrack”–that’s the way it’s spelled. It’s a noun; it means, “A cheap and showy object of little or no use.” For being a know-it-all, I figured you’d know that. “Obvious”ly, I was wrong.
For the record, indeed I questioned drama as a relevant model for evangelism earlier. I wasn’t defending it mindlessly, although I do appreciate the insinuation that you think I’m “reasonable”. I was merely pointing out the silver lining: that, though it’s still a bit corny, it isn’t quite so much as it was four years ago, and it seems to work for some people. Maybe–just maybe–it means something to people in a way I don’t understand. Any reasonable person should be able to admit that. I’ve got to believe that, somewhere hidden deep inside that cold, witchy exterior exists a tiny, flickering flame of compassion for anything that leads people to eternal life, which hasn’t been completely extinguished by eastern mysticism or silenced by humanism.
Still I wonder, where’s all that tolerance you used to bark about?
November 7th, 2005 at 9:11 pm
Fez (can I call you Fez?):
If you beat your dog into submission, that’s domination.
It isn’t domination to illustrate the post-hoc consequences of life outside of Christ. It’s a lesson in the law of cause and effect. If you run out into the street in front of a speeding car, you’re going to get run over. If you touch a hot stove, you’re going to get burned. If you postpone salvation by redemption and die in the mean time, you’re going to run into a scary devil in makeup and a sequin cape. That’s all. It isn’t “scaring people” into submission.
Quite frankly, what’s happening here at City Business is exactly what you’re griping about: dramatic theatrics about escaping a perceived hell via coming to know the “truth”.
If Eternity is proselytization, then so is City Business.
November 7th, 2005 at 9:14 pm
RP:
I haven’t the foggiest idea what you’re talking about. If you watch TBN all day long, that’s probably a personal problem you should work out.
Also, it isn’t the size of your church that matters… it’s how you use it.
November 7th, 2005 at 9:39 pm
Cattle, you never seem to address main points do you? Why don’t you use your stellar vocabulary and stupendous reading comphrension to reread my post. Then, get back to me when you address my main point instead of nitpicking one my supporting examples. If my thinking is so flawed, please feel free to take apart my other examples while you’re at it…or are you the Gimcrack around here?
Quick recap…
-A message of love is more persuasive and generates long lasting results whereas a message of fire and brimstone may have short term gains but often leads to long term anger and resentment. Don’t believe me? Go read the Gospels and notice the percentage of the text is Jesus talking about God’s positive aspects versus His judgement. Notice hell doesn’t get many mentions either.
Also, last time I checked this blog is original material that RP and Catalyst don’t profit from… other than to hear your pearls of wisdom mixed in with junior high name calling. We also don’t rip off imagery from a medieval work of FICTION to scare non-Christians. The truth about CBC is scary enough without a goofy guy sporting red horns.
November 8th, 2005 at 1:42 am
Cattle List,
Geez-louise…”gimcrack”? No, I didn’t know that word…you must’ve found it in the New Oxford Insult Dictionary. I apologize for my assumption that it mustn’t be a real word — the rest of your behavior hasn’t led me to view you as a habitual verbophile. Also, let me point out that you referring to a person as a worthless object is quite cruel…and un-Christian in the extreme. Your credibility on that front is at an all-time low. As for my tolerance or lack thereof…well, here it is: you’re not willing to deal with me on the level of ideas because you seem to prefer insulting me. So, in order to communicate with you, I’ve stooped to your level (as it were). Besides, it’s kinda funny. If you’d indicated to me at any point that you were interested in a grownup, civil discourse, you’d have never seen words like this come out of me. In short, I’m totally willing to tolerate and have compassion for you, person to person. I’m not willing to interact with you person-to-jackass. So, I tried jackass-to-jackass. It didn’t seem to fly. So, whatever, dude.
I still don’t quite get this whole “witchey” thing of yours. I think you might be watching too much TBN…or perhaps reading too much Focus on the Family. To my knowledge, you’ve never even met me…and therefore, you never could’ve seen that I have a wart on my nose, fly around on a broomstick, sacrifice goats (that was for you, Fez), have an unusual green tint to my complexion, or have a funny habit of wearing a crystal in the third eye position. So, I don’t get it. As for my compassion underneath whatever exterior or corruption you seem to have detected…thanks for the compliment. That’s what I’m going for.
Now, a reasonable question: how can you say Eternity is a simple cause-and-effect demonstration? Have you been there to see? No one really has, to my knowledge — and no one knows who’s really in and who’s really out. The information in the Bible and other sources is actually quite vague on that point. It’s an opinion piece….until further notice, a work of fiction. Surely you’re not so convinced of the relevance and correctness of your own perspective as to say that you know any of this for certain. Let me remind you that you claim belief in an omniscient, omnipotent, infinite Deity. This means that you must include the possibility that you don’t have the foggiest notion about what that Deity is really up to, regardless of how much reading you’ve done, how long you’ve been a believer, how thoroughly you’ve worked to know all there is to know. A dramatic presentation about life after death is all well and good, as long as its made clear that it’s not the truth. It’s just a possibility…and frankly, I’m willing to bet that Jesus has a better aesthetic sense than all that gold fabric and fog machine nonsense. I repeat what I said before…the play is crap on all levels, and even if someone (by some miracle) got something out of it, it should still be canned. Only the best is good enough for God, right? We can sure as hell (ha ha) do better.
November 8th, 2005 at 1:42 am
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November 8th, 2005 at 7:14 am
Fez:
Repeat for me, if you will, the points you’d like me to address and I’ll be delighted to give it a whack.
November 8th, 2005 at 12:55 pm
If you honestly can’t find them, then you really need to quit posting. If you’re playing dumb to dodge my points, then you probably should quit posting. If you’re playing dumb to annoy me, MOOOOOOOO.
November 9th, 2005 at 10:17 pm
I know I’m late in posting this, but I, too, saw the play last week and found it as mind-numbingly boring and predictable as it was years ago when I first saw it years ago.