Prayer Walk
Posted on November 17th, 2005 by catalyst into the Uncategorized categoryHere is another thought from our favorite ex-PBC student.
I’m just getting to some of these postings, but I have an experience I wanted to share from a group called “Main Street” that was started by CBC in 1997.
This isn’t about a “prayer tunnel” but along the same lines. I volunteered to be on the prayer team down at Main Street, and we were supposed to go on a “prayer walk,” which to me meant praying silently while walking. Kind of like meditation while on a hike or something.
Well, I was mistaken! The group going on the prayer walk through the PSU park-blocks pulled out a map. Then, they asked who would like to lead the prayer walk. I said I would, but then the leader of this group told me that I didn’t have any experience with “spiritual mapping.” I didn’t know I had to have experience, or I wouldn’t have applied for the job, but whatever.
Anyway, the “spiritual mapper” prayed over the map until the Holy Spirit told him where we were supposed to walk. Then, we had to stop in front of certain buildings that he felt led he was supposed to pray over.
One building that was owned by PSU was supposedly previously inhabited by a molestor according to this “spiritual mapper.” I’m not sayin’ any names. The “spiritual mapper” asked that we start praying against the spirits from the person that used to live there. I got scared. It was dark & there wasn’t much light around. Plus, the way these people were talking scared me.
So, I just fell behind the other prayer walkers and went home–I don’t think they noticed that I wasn’t with them when they got back to Main Street. To be honest, that was my last time going to Main Street.
I was unqualified to pray, because I hadn’t been trained to be a “spiritual mapper.”
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November 17th, 2005 at 12:37 pm
Odd. Thats the only word I have.
November 17th, 2005 at 12:47 pm
Spiritual Mapper???
Mom, was that you?
November 17th, 2005 at 2:17 pm
Um, the term is “principality cartographer,” people….hello!
Here’s hoping my sarcasm is palpable. Good grief….do these people lay awake nights coming up with this kind of bullshit, or are they just “artistic” enough with the medium of cow patty to come up with this kind of thing on the fly? Not that I altogether deny the existence of a spiritual dimension to the world or any of that jazz…it’s just that the notion of “mapping” it through some untaught skill is more than a little presumptuous on the part of the “cartographer”. I’m all for discernment…I’m just against buzzwords and their use to create hierarchy for no good reason.
I just don’t even know what to say about all this nonsense…the funny thing is that it all seemed perfectly obvious once upon a time (before I stopped drinking the kool-aid, as it were) from the inside looking out, and now from the outside looking in, it seems so totally….well, both ridiculous and sort of frightening. The world’s so much less scary when there aren’t demons under the doilies anymore. And, I daresay that people are a lot more useful when they’re living their lives within an appropriate sphere of influence, loving and caring for others rather than freaking out about the things that go bump in the night.
November 17th, 2005 at 2:29 pm
RP-
Prayer Mapping?
Is that like the time that we marched around Bours Health Clinic 7 times, and than blew our horns hoping that the walls would come crumbling down.
November 17th, 2005 at 3:01 pm
Wait a minute…were there stakes involved? I distinctly remember a prayer walk that included driving stakes into the ground at different schools. Or maybe that was just a strange, horrible dream. Actually, it was kind of educational, because I’d heard about all these horrible, demon-infested public schools but had never seen any of them up close.
November 17th, 2005 at 4:33 pm
Yes, Hannah! There were stakes involved eventually, but the story I was talking about happened just prior to the time when they started staking. I was never a staker or a mapper.
November 17th, 2005 at 5:52 pm
Oooh, I had almost forgotton all about my stake. I bought my stake at one of those looney intercessor conferences. It came “pre-annointed” with oil from Frank (The Gatekeeper of the city) with appropriate scriptures etched in it to scare the demons of darkness. I store it in a special box with my prayer cloth that I bought from Benny Hinn, or was it Robert Tilton??? Hey, you never know when I’ll need to do some staking again.
November 17th, 2005 at 6:09 pm
I think we already covered “staking” somewhere on this blog. I know that there are very explicit instructions on how to “stake” your yard.
Not just anyone can “stake”.
November 17th, 2005 at 6:23 pm
Just found the previous post:
Stake Out for Christ
An anonymous reader and, City-Business-survivor, sent me this link to an article from the mid-90’s. Its an article discussing how pastors in Baltimore placed stakes around the city to protect the city from Satan. They got the idea from Pastor Frank. It is quite possibly the stupidest idea I have ever heard. And is on par with the time me and my brothers got the idea to stuff our two year old sister into a pillow case and swing her around, because of course, she would like it. “Its like a roller coaster” we told her.
Anyway, read the article. Its pretty entertaining.
http://www.banner.org.uk/res/StakeOut.htm
Check out that site. It really is hilarious.
November 17th, 2005 at 7:36 pm
Wasn’t that part of the whole “Take the City” movement?
November 17th, 2005 at 7:49 pm
That was part of the “Take the City” movement:
“From the north, to the south blah blah blah blah blah blah blah . . .”
I think it was all part of the Cindy Jacobs/spiritual mapping/intercessory prayer conferences and all that jazz. Good times.
Does anyone else remember the praying over rocks when they brought the rocks from John G. Lake’s house (I think) and put them on the altar for people to pray over and get “anointed”.
I didn’t. So I probably missed the blessing or something.
November 17th, 2005 at 7:56 pm
Um, yah, I totally remember that!
I also remember the on-hand wheelchairs they had to transport slain-in-the-spirit & drunk-in-the-spirit attendees who couldn’t walk or drive back to campus. I also remember the designated ‘catchers’ that had to attend a class before the service in order to catch the falling people. What about the conference when Erica Bonia’s dad, with a wave of a hand, made the crowd fall like dominos. I also remember “Black Tuesday”–the day almost the whole PBC campus broke curfew to attend a conference. Looking back, why was it okay to participate in those freakish events, yet not okay to enjoy a pint in the ‘real’ world. I remember feeling like I couldn’t bring any ‘outsiders’ into CBC or to a PBC chapel service without fear of what they would think. Anyone else care to comment on ‘Black Tuesday’ from 1994 at PBC?
November 17th, 2005 at 7:59 pm
Hello Jefferson Starship!
We built this city, we built this city on rock an’ roll
Built this city, we built this city on rock an’ roll
Say you don’t know me, or recognize my face
Say you don’t care who goes to that kind of place
Knee deep in the hoopla, sinking in your fight
Too many runaways eating up the night
Marconi plays the mamba, listen to the radio, don’t you remember
We built this city, we built this city on rock an’ roll
chorus
Someone’s always playing corporation games
Who cares they’re always changing corporation names
We just want to dance here, someone stole the stage
They call us irresponsible, write us off the page
Marconi plays the mamba, listen to the radio, don’t you remember
We built this city, we built this city on rock an’ roll
chorus
It’s just another Sunday, in a tired old street
Police have got the choke hold, oh, [but] we just lost the beat
Who counts the money underneath the bar
Who rides the wrecking ball into our guitars
Don’t tell us you need us, ‘cos we’re [the ship of] fools
Looking for America, crawling through your schools
(I’m looking out over that Golden Gate bridge
Out on another gorgeous sunny Saturday, I’ve seen that [bumper-to-bumper]traffic)
Don’t you remember (remember)
(Here’s your favorite radio station, in your favorite radio city
The city by the bay, the city that rocks, the city that never sleeps)
Marconi plays the mamba, listen to the radio, don’t you remember
We built this city, we built this city on rock an’ roll
November 17th, 2005 at 9:41 pm
“I’m just against buzzwords and their use to create hierarchy for no good reason.”
You said it Jiminycricket81…you are SO right!
November 17th, 2005 at 10:18 pm
OK, please don’t kill me, but I still remember the words to the chorus of “Let’s Go Take This City”, which I believe was the theme song of the Staking Season.
And I do vaguely remember the Black Tuesday of ‘94. Those crazy college kids, skipping class to attend an intercessor’s conference. I guess everyone’s gotta go a little nuts in college.
Now, anyone up for a rousing rendition of “We’ll Stand in the Gap”?
November 18th, 2005 at 12:16 am
Okay, someone said they could hear the sermons online, so I checked it out. He says in his most recent sermon after greeting the new visitors…”Here at City Bible Church, we do things according to the vision God has given us…” I thought the church was supposed to ‘do things’ according to the Bible. Guess I’m just old-fashioned. Welcome to the church of 2005.
November 18th, 2005 at 10:58 am
They did get a vision, but I’m not sure where it’s from. They got a vision for multiple campuses and simulcast from Singapore. They got a vision for neighborhood churches tailored to style from Willow Creek in Chicago. They got a vision for college campuses from City Church in Seattle. And on and on it goes…..
November 18th, 2005 at 11:21 am
Let’s play a game. How many commonalities can you find between CBC and Buffy the Vampire Slayer?
1. Staking
November 18th, 2005 at 4:25 pm
2. Watchers.
November 18th, 2005 at 5:11 pm
Is it kinda like this lady?
http://www.break.com/articles/tradingspouses2.html
November 19th, 2005 at 8:40 am
mackman….whoa. You should post some kind of viewer discretion clause on that.
Oh, and could someone lend a hand to the out-of-touch classical musician in Hungary and tell me….what IS that show?
November 19th, 2005 at 11:00 am
It’s called “Trading Spouses” and it’s a show where two moms switch families for a while and the families (supposedly) learn to appreciate their mothers and vice versa. Then each family is awarded a bunch of money at the end, and the visiting mother has to decide how the family will spend it according to the needs she senses the family has. Only in America would this craziness take place, although while I was in Japan a few years ago I saw some TV shows that could rival this kind of insanity. Including one show where this seriously overweight man went and knocked on unsuspecting people’s doors and asked to take a bath in their tubs. Not surprisingly, they all said yes, and they all fed the guy afterwards without being asked. That’s why I love Canada, where our TV shows mostly consist of people in rural Saskatchewan being sarcastic to each other.
November 19th, 2005 at 11:43 am
Does anyone want to hear from a “spiritual mapper?” If not, then skip this. As someone who as “been there done that” I’ve given it a lot of consideration.
(BTW, Jiminy, it’s not the same as a “principality cartographer.” I know you were joking, but if people had those titles, they would be looking at different things.)
Spiritual mapping is one of those ideas based on a couple of Scriptures that has morphed into a whole teaching and practice, which in itself is a little suspect. Consider however:
1–There is a spiritual reality out there. How many times have you gone somewhere and not liked the way it “felt” — maybe not knowing why. Or even better, have you been in the presence of the Lord? You can “feel” it.
2–There are many Scriptures of the Lord directing people to do a physical act that would have a miraculous effect. Examples:
Marching around Jericho
Raising a bronze snake in the air
Breaking pots and blowing horns
Throwing salt in the water
Smearing mud on blind eyes
3–There are also things that we are directed to do physically that demonstrate a spiritual principle.
Water baptism
Taking communion
Throw these things into a pot, and out comes “spiritual mapping,” the teaching that we can tell what kind of a spirit is in a place, and then by doing a physical act of some sort (often based on a Scripture like the ones above), we can effect a change. Kind of like exorcism for places.
The down side of this is that it can become like a formula, sort of like “Buffy” or “Supernatural.” And then it slides out of being led by the Spirit of God into being led by your own ideas or even another spirit.
That does not mean that we cannot be led by the Spirit of God to do unusual things. Just keep in mind that if HE leads it, it will have the effect He desires. And that most certainly does not include a feeling of pride, exclusivity, and exaltation of man.
IMHO, nothing changes until His Kingdom comes and His will is done. To work toward that goal seems to be a more profitable use of prayer and activity.
November 19th, 2005 at 3:48 pm
Wow…this post has brought back all sorts of creepy memories. I remember moving into a new house and putting grape juice on the doorposts and praying over the house before we moved in. I guess we were hoping that the angel of death would pass over our house or something.
November 19th, 2005 at 5:01 pm
Hannah,
Thanks for the info.
And the Buffy reference.
Anonymous Mapper,
Dude, I don’t quite know what to say. First off, I think “mapper” and “cartographer” are actually interchangeable terms in this case…”mapper” is just a baby-talk term.
Now, let’s go point by point:
1. Ok, fine…spiritual reality. Granted. But let’s remember that if that reality is real, we’re ALWAYS in “the presence of the Lord”. And, the places that “don’t feel right” are NOT necessarily our responsibility or our problem…nor are they necessarily evil. I get a funny feeling when I go to the dentist…not because it’s bad, but because I *personally* don’t like what happens to me there. It’s not fundamentally any different.
2. Yes, in the Bible, people do things physically to represent things spiritually. So? They did it because they were told to do it, and it was recorded because it worked. How many times did people *think* they were told to do things and it didn’t work and we don’t know about it because nobody bothered to write about all the hooey. Remember, the snake on the pole eventually became an idol that later had to be destroyed. People like tangible representations of things…they like to feel like they understand. It doesn’t mean that they *actually* understand.
3. Yes, the Christian church has physical symbols of what is believed to happen spiritually. See the point above about people liking tangible representations. It is when we attach ourselves to the physical manifestation that we become idol worshipers. It is possible to make baptism or communion into an idol…revering the symbol for its own sake.
I have a LOT of experience with all this kind of stuff, on a first-hand, bystander/child, and academic level. I have spent a lot of time reading everything from the Bible to books by Cindy Jacobs to 16th century Italian exorcism treatises to volumes on historical demonology from a psychological standpoint, you name it (my master’s thesis was on the use of an English renaissance composer’s music in 16th century exorcism ceremonies….and my parents were heavily involved in the intercessory movement from 1990-96, and I was involved myself from about ‘92-98). I don’t come to this from an uninformed perspective.
I think it’s hogwash. I think it’s tantamount to voodoo because I think it’s a way for people to tell themselves that they understand things that they really don’t understand and to give them a false feeling of control over their environment. I think it comes from fear and not from love. If we believe that God is love and God is infinite, we acknowledge that fear has no place in our hearts, and that infinity necessitates that we admit not knowing or understanding certain things. We have to admit that we don’t get it, and certain things are beyond us. “Spiritual mapping” is, at this point, a futile exercise because even if it exists, it’s none of our business.
November 19th, 2005 at 11:00 pm
This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard of and still can’t believe it was a reality.
November 20th, 2005 at 8:00 am
This is for spirtual mapper,
Good try.
The things of God are almost impossible to understand.Let me point out a few examples.
Jesus said to Nicodemus,” I tell you the Truth, no man can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.”
Now that is some food for thought.
Nicks reply was much like some on this blogs…..doubtful, unbelieving.
“How can a man be born when he is old?……….Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb to be born.
Well here is how Jesus chose to answer his question….and I think his answer could be used to alot of the questions on this blog.
John 3v5 I tell you the truth, no
one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh , but the Sirit gives birth to spirit.
There it is in a nut shell, we just can’t understand the things of God without His Spirit. If you read the whole chapter it is very helpful.
Another example would be when Jesus told his follows that they had to eat his body and drink his blood. He lost a lot of followers that day. He turned to his disciples and asked them if they were going to leave him also. They wisely answered , Where would we go
for you have the words of eternal life.
That story is in John chapter 6
So my point. Many times the things that followers of Jesus do are odd to those who are looking through eyes of flesh or the world. It doesn’t make sense to them. So it doesn’t surprise me to read the ridicule of some of those practices here on this blog. but
We must look at the fruit…..
love, joy, peace, patience, long suffering to name a few…
I leave you with Matt. 7v7,8
Ask and it will be given to you, seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.
Much grace to all of you on your journey to know God better.
Love,
Mom
November 20th, 2005 at 10:16 am
Prayer Walks, Dragon Slaying, Staking territories…. oh my!
I too am a CBCer circa 1992-2004 and I have to agree that once you step away from the CBC “community” the view looking back can seem a little strange.
This weekend I was summoned by a couple relatives (both lifers at CBC) to attend GNI:ITM (it was posted all over the restroom stalls so I guess if you’re a member you’re just supposed to know what this means!). So I woke up, threw on my Seven jeans (in order to not feel like an outcast it was a toss up between Citizens & Sevens) and drove over to the butte. After a few announcements I figured it out - Girls Night out in the Morning. We used to just call these “ladies meetings or ladies breakfasts” but whatever.
As Alita mentioned “prayer tunnels” in the prison ministry during breakfast, I was paralyzed by such uncontrollable laughter that I almost lost my quiche. I was quickly shushed by my mother who I just know was about to explode with laughter herself. When Hank’s books were given away as door prizes I had to bite my tongue just to keep from making any sarcastic remarks as a young gal nearby stood up and yelped with excitement that she was holding the winning ticket – she was THRILLED about the books so I decided to keep my mouth shut and not rain on her parade. Aside from a couple of Eternity plugs, I was pleasantly surprised by the actual message that was delivered and the ministry part of the morning’s events. I went into the meeting portion of the GNI:ITM (gotta love that!) feeling a little skeptical, but after worship Mrs. D (A very kind, sincere Godly woman in my opinion) shared something that really ministered to me, and what I gained from the message that followed was well worth choking over a quiche for.
Do I still chuckle inside when PF says “sit”? YES Do I still feel like Doug is more of an inspirational speaker on steroids than an actual youth pastor? YES Do I think that some GenChurch staffers are shamelessly living their lives as “mini-me” hoping to one day reach that ultimate goal of “CBC Eldership”? YES (An old friend/buddy/co-worker/whatever made the comment to me back in 2000 that, “With the business choices I’ve made and the relationships I’ve established I’m on the right track to become an elder down the road” - Whether he was trying to impress me so I would keep messing around with him or if he actually believed it himself - it was hilarious! The sad part was that he actually believed in what he was saying and he didn’t see how stupid it sounded.) Would I ever participate in a Prayer Walk - NO. Do I think they’re too involved in everyone’s private lives? YES
I’m not like “hard core” anti-CBC or anything, and I know that all churches have issues. You just have to find a place where your standards, beliefs and even your personality fit in best and trust God. Overall the meeting went well and nothing offensive was said. CBC is not my church, but from what I’ve seen it’s not necessarily a cult either.
November 20th, 2005 at 6:07 pm
We would do well to listen to mom. The world will always make fun of the church, the darkness hates the light. But the church should never distract from that light which is Christ. Unfortunatly every church and christian for that matter does so to some measure, and CBC does so in a far greater matter than most churches we have been involved with.
Mom, just because something is wierd does not mean it is God, but our mind can never comprehend His ways.
November 21st, 2005 at 6:13 am
This blog would probably be more fun if people posted their names… …but then we would probably get far fewer comments.
To the Mapper: I think you need to work on finding the Gift of Discernment. As Jimney said, “Just because something feels wrong doesn’t make it wrong.” In looking back, some of my best decisions in life, were decisions I felt horrible about.
To Jimney: Fear is just a natural part of life. You can believe in God. Believe in Love, and still be afraid. Just because God loves you, doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t be afraid sometimes. That said, I do believe Christians often place a great emphasis on fear over love. It’s easier to control people if they’re afraid.
To Girls Night out: This quote is great, “With the business choices I’ve made and the relationships I’ve established I’m on the right track to become an elder down the road” ….it’s funny because it’s true.
November 21st, 2005 at 9:08 am
“Major on the majors, minor on the minors.”
I think the biggest problem with the whole spiritual mapping thing was that it put such a heavy emphasis on things that took away from the more important things. My opinion of this and spiritual warfare in general is that the Christians who spend so much time on it often neglect the more practical needs of their Chrisitan walk and evangelism. Yes, a spiritual realm exists, and there are bad things in it, but as Believers I don’t feel it’s our primary function to name & pray against every spiritual power in the city. I think the time would be better spent naming & praying our family, friends, and neighbors who need Christ. Our job on planet Earth is to spread the Gospel, not cast out demons on every corner.
Also, I think this kind of activity leads into a fear-based mentality about spiritual issues, to the point where people become superstitious. The biggest fact is that He who is in us is greater than anything else, and because of that, we have no reason to fear any spiritual power.
I don’t appreciate the idea of the creation of an entire Christian sub-culture based on these ideas - ideas that can hardly be called doctrine since they are not well-founded in Scripture. It’s another case of charismatic pentecostalism gone awry. CBC used to have such a strong reputation about being well-founded in doctrine, and I think stuff like this has caused them to lose that reputation, IMHO.
Which brings me to my last point: Stuff like this makes the Church and the Gospel look unattractive to the unbeliever. If we Christians find it odd, won’t the rest of the world just think we’re insane by persisting in this kind of behavior?