The Case of the Website Violation
Posted on November 29th, 2005 by catalyst into the City Boobie Church, Favorites categoryThis blog’s favorite sleuth, Henry Straforelli (or"Joe Hardy" as his close friends lovingly refer to him) recently discovered a violation within the Eternity Website.
Using clues he located from the donation section of Eternity’s Website, "Joe" was able to determine that Eternity used 2checkout to accept "donations" for their services. Unfortunately, this was in direct violation of 2checkout’s own payment policy which clearly stated that
"The following Products and Services CANNOT be sold: firearms, pornography or donations."
Joe quickly contacted his Brother in the Lord "Frank (Johnpaul Morton) Hardy", and they set out to solve the case of City Bible’s Missing Morals.
Thankfully, for us readers, it was a relatively easy case to solve. Frank and Joe both sent emails to 2checkout alerting them to the apparent violation, and 2checkout sent the boys back a case number: 3059-QWEY-5316.
This morning the Hardy Boys received an email proclaiming "Action will be taken." And now Eternity’s Donation site is down.
As City Bible’s Blogfather "Fenton Justin Morton Hardy", I would like to send my thanks to these two valiant amateur detectives. Thank you for keeping City Bible honest, and keeping our internet safe from unscruplous businessmen.
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November 29th, 2005 at 1:02 pm
I usually enjoy the blogs posted on this website. For the most part it’s pretty harmless and just entertaining, but I do NOT enjoy the “fault-finding” mentality reflected in this past post, JUSTIN! Why don’t you just start minding your own business and quit wasting your time trying to find loopholes where CBC may have ( in this case its most likely unintentional!) violated a rule or regulation in regards to website issues. Is that really important to you? Let it go!
It’s one thing to be funny and discuss some of the whacko standards and situations that may or may not have taken place at CBC, but this is just flat out stupid. I wouldn’t say that wisdom and/or good judgement are your best qualities, but then again I’ve known that for a LONG time so what was I expecting. I guess you really are messed up.
Do you honestly think that CBC is INTENTIONALLY mis-using their website functions? I DOUBT IT.
Maybe you should spend more time fine-tuning your personal character instead of looking at someone else’s weaknesses (or just mistakes) to take the attention away from your own.
Fed up with Catalyst
November 29th, 2005 at 1:15 pm
Thank you. Thank you.
(I know have my hands clasped above my head, and am shaking them back and forth in victory.)
Also, I am now printing off that last comment for my records. It is my personal favorite.
Lastly, I would be remiss, if I didn’t thank my fellow contributors J-P and Henry. I owe you both so much.
November 29th, 2005 at 1:18 pm
come on "Fed up with Catalyst." Are you serious? You just told him that he is messed up, has no wisdom and/or good judgment, and questioned his character all because he pointed out an inconsistency and mis-use of the CC Processing service. It is impossible to know if CBC was doing it on purpose, however it IS possible to know that it was a direct violation of 2checkout's company policy and as such should be terminated. I think we should all thank Mr. Henri AND Mr. Morton for doing their part to keep another Christian church in America above reproach.
November 29th, 2005 at 1:54 pm
Hardy Boys,
Seeing as you’ve got more than 2 now, I think y’all are a bit more like the A-Team than the Hardy Boys. And, by the way, I think the whole thing is priceless…hitting ‘em where they live for once. Who cares whether it was on purpose or not? Shouldn’t someone be reading the fine print? C’mon, Fed up….this is proactivity here. Remember, faith without works is dead.
November 29th, 2005 at 2:16 pm
There were once two roads…one road was wide and full of bright light… this road was called “easy”… People that walked down it were often praised for their ability to look the other way.
The other road was narrow and dark…this road was called “hard”…when anyone walked down the “hard” road they were often ridiculed and mocked.
I recently came to the intersection of “easy” and “hard” road…the path I chose was not the popular one, but I had to ask myself “What price are you willing to pay for justice?”…I also asked myself “How hilarious is the “hard” path going to be?”
The answer? Freaking Hilarious…I don’t really care about justice.
November 29th, 2005 at 2:41 pm
pesky assholes
November 29th, 2005 at 2:57 pm
It is the RESPONSIBILITY of any corporation, CBC included, to make sure they are following protocol. Catalyst, you are still cool in my book. Straf, you rock!
November 29th, 2005 at 4:02 pm
I am NOT saying it’s not their responsibility to adhere to these policies, I’m just saying it’s ridiculous for “The Hardy Boys” to make a big issue out of it. Out of genuine concern you would initially contact the offending party; out of genuine spite you would report the offending party to the “authorities”.
You can say all you want about “high road v. low road”, but what about simple kindness and giving someone the courtesy of at least finding out from the source? The fact that someone actually researched this, reported it to the website company and then blogged about it as if they exposed something significant about CBC is just ridiculous. I am sure it was a simple oversight.
I’m just glad that I don’t have people dissecting my life and documenting every single mistake they can catch me making, aren’t you guys?
November 29th, 2005 at 4:14 pm
Well, to be honest.. there were two reasons for my actions. Ok, three reasons.. but the last one hardly counts.
Keep in mind here that I happen to own an internet business and work in the "internet world". Thus, I know a lot more then most about how "3rd party credit card processing systems" work. 1) 2checkout has a nasty tendancy to suspend any account it finds that does not comply with their publicly posted policies on what can and can't be sold using their services. Since the eternity website clearly violoated their "you can't sell donations" policy, it was a suspension waiting to happen. We merely expedited the inevitable a little. 
Kind of like Santa's little helpers, but with a twist. 2) I happen to use 2checkout myself for a few of my ecommerce sites. Stay with me here and I'll explain my point. I'm sure you're all aware of why credit card processing rates are so high, right? Well, it's mostly because of rampant fraud on the internet. Not only are the rates very high, but 2checkout has a "holdback" fund, which means they "hold back" a % of every sale I make for 90 days or so, in order to have a "contingency" fund in place should someone initiate a chargeback from one of my sales, etc. That's CASH I could be using to grow my business that is sitting in a "holdback" fund where I can't touch it for 90 days. I'm suffering lost opportunity cost as a result. The holdback percentage and merchant rate are DIRECTLY proportional to the amount of fraudulent activity in the overall 2checkout system. Much of this fraud is a result of people who make a "donation" for some intagible product/service (ie: donating to a website that sells good feelings), and then later decide to do a chargeback if their prayer isn't answered or they don't see a 10-fold increase in their finances. The seller has no proof of anything, and so the chargeback always goes through uncontested… and this costs 2checkout a LOT of money.. which they pass on to *me*in the form of an increased holdback percentage and higher processing rates. Thus.. I am simply looking out for MYSELF. I could care less that it was CBC or the eternity website that was accepting the "against the policy" donations. It is worth noting that I have reported other websites I've found that violate ANY of 2checkout's public policies. In other words, it wasn't simply because it is "City Bible Church" that I complained to 2checkout. It was also, and mostly, because I have a personal vested interest in NOT seeing my own rates/percentages rise any further. 3) I was taught by the good teachers of Temple Christian High School that I should be a good citizen. I'm simply doing my part to participate in our global community. If someone was violating MY terms of service, then I would certainly want to know about it. I was simply treating 2checkout how I wish my own business to be treated. On another note: Please don't blame *ME* for the fact that CBC/eternity weren't smart enough to read the big text that says, "WE DO NOT ALLOW DONATIONS TO BE SOLD". Before they are able to use their 2checkout account, they had to sign an agreement that says they DID read this policy and that they WOULD abide by it. It is THEIR OWN FAULT that they violated the policy they agreed not to violate. I mean, really, if you're going to be all "high tech" and part of the internet age.. then it would be good to … well… RTFM. lol. 
On a side note, PayPal accepts donations. (Although I don't see why CBC doesn't simply use their own merchant account.)
November 29th, 2005 at 4:23 pm
There was only one reason for my actions:
I did it because I wanted someone at CBC to raise a clenched fist and mutter “Damn those Morton boys and their meddling ways.”
Is it petty…yes. Is it funny…without a doubt.
November 29th, 2005 at 4:25 pm
In response to Anonymous: >> I'm just glad that I don't have >> people dissecting my life and >> documenting every single >> mistake they can catch me >> making, aren't you guys? This is pretty much the model that was shown to me when I was effectively booted out of their church. But really, that's beside the point. The point is that it is up to CBC/eternity to find and fix their mistakes. Not the general public. If one of my clients (I own a web hosting company) is violating our terms of service, then I want to know about it NOW. My technicians will take action immediately, through whatever means we have states as appropriate in our own Terms of Service. (ie: We will contact the account owner and discuss the situation.) It isn't the reporters obligation or resposibility to "go talk" to the account holder. That is OUR job, as the company with whom the account holder has the contract/agreement. It is the same for CBC/eternity. The issue is between THEM and 2CHECKOUT.. not me and 2checkout and them. BTW - I didn't go "looking" for mistakes in their website or researching anything. Since I work/live/breath in the industry it was a simple matter to roll my mouse over their donation links to "see what they were using" to receive the donations. Needless to say, I was surprised to see 2checkout as the linking URL.. since accepting donations is directly forbidden by the 2checkout "what am I allowed to sell?" policy. In other words, I am very familiar with 2checkout's policies, having done my own research into them on behalf of many clients. In fact, 2checkout specifically gives out a REWARD for reporting an offense. (Sorry 'Frank', but I reported it first, so I got the $25 gift certificate.)
November 29th, 2005 at 8:46 pm
Since this is the internet, the following seems entirely appropriate:
PWNED!!!
Hey, Henry, don’t forget to tithe on that $25!
November 29th, 2005 at 9:31 pm
I just wanted to throw my two cents into the mix here. A friend and former PBC/CBC’er, as am I ,turned me onto this blog about a week ago. I have been reading the posts, comments, etc and I have to agree with alot of the experiences and information shared.
I have a million stories I could tell about my time at PBC/CBC (as do alot of you). And there was a fair amount of good that came out of it, but what caught my attention this time was the issue with the Eternity website. I jumped over to look around on their site, (I honestly thought that play died out yrs ago!) and saw something startling. The tshirt design…simple enough except it is a rip off of a design I made up for Ed and the Eternity play several yrs ago. Ed convientley used my original design plus several other designs and alterations and never paid for them back in the late 90’s. Now it looks as though he is regurgitating them! It was suggested back then that they be dontaed to “the ministry”. When we did not comply we were “shunned” and our services not used again.
This type of intimidation and abuse is a pattern with CBC as a similiar situatiuon also happend with Doug and Generation Unleashed around the same time.
I mention this to help validate what others are saying. Granted, this situation of the “donations” on the website could be a mistake…but in my experience I would tend to think it was a calculated risk in the “name of ministry. ”
Lastly, I have not read all the posting yet, just the most recent ones. I was curious if there has been any discussion of similiar attitudes, situations, etc in the smaller, satilite MFI churches? Our whole family (20 plus people) left and MFI church about 3 yrs ago due to the type of attitudes, etc that tricked down from the top. I never really put it together until I got on this blog last week.
Thanks for listening to my ramblings
Jack
November 30th, 2005 at 5:45 am
Thanks for your comment Jack. I actually heard that T-Shirt story from someone else, but it’s always better to hear it from the source directly.
Actually, our blog has discussed MFI. Though the comment section has usually delved into the topic much better than me or JP ever could. Most people tend to agree that it’s not just City Bible but the MFI community that is responsible for a lot of the un-Christlike attitudes.
November 30th, 2005 at 8:49 am
Hi Jack! So good to hear from you. Karli
November 30th, 2005 at 10:24 am
Jack, I was part of a CBC (then Bible Temple) church plant that didn’t make it (God’s mercy). MFI only served to enable our pastor’s sin, not help him overcome it (he was the pastor after all, who were we to point out his deficiencies to him?). Our pastor was raised up by Frank, in the likeness of Frank so it’s no surprise. As painful as it was it sure opened our eyes up and we are grateful for that.
November 30th, 2005 at 12:44 pm
Hey Jack!!!I think I told Eric about this site! Glad to see you joined in!
Oh how I remember this whole tee-shirt thing….Bastards I say..Bastards.
Oh and that first anonymous comment was funny, its to bad they aren’t man/woman enough to say who they are. Obviously some unresolved issues there….
Of course this wouldn’t be half as funny with out comments like that first one.
Oh and Henry, I remember you from PBC weren’t you in trouble about as much as Karli and I??? I swear by the time I left I had paid for not only the sand vollyball court, but Bill Shidlers summer vacation! God damn fines…..
November 30th, 2005 at 12:49 pm
Ahh, yes…the fines. I had forgotten about that, but at the time, I was quite angry about those fines. All for not emptying my trash can and failing to attend chapel. I think the semester I was told to shape up or ship out, my fines exceeded my tuition.
November 30th, 2005 at 3:40 pm
The fines were yet another way to gain money if you ask me…its all about the money with them…grrrr…
November 30th, 2005 at 6:20 pm
They didn’t have fines when I was there which was a good thing considering I was one of the few who actually had a job and paid their own tuition. But that was before Frank.
November 30th, 2005 at 8:43 pm
Henri made the comment that I wanted to, but I’ll make it again, anyway.
“I’m just glad that I don’t have
people dissecting my life and documenting every single
mistake they can catch me
making, aren’t you guys?”
THIS is precisely how CBC operates. They dissect everything they know about their members’ lives and judge every tiny piece as good/bad, righteous/evil! They major on minors and try their very best to re-define “sin” as any perspective or act that makes them uncomfortable. They beat people over the head with their judgments about “every single (perceived) mistake” and do their best to convince the poor brow-beaten listeners that they’ve somehow squandered their salvation, purpose, or ticket to a higher level of heaven because of “what they did”–whether that be smoke, drink dance in a public place (NOT sins) or whether they lie, steal, or commit sexual immorality (REAL sins).
This (CBC’s) whole way of thinking and relating and “leading” (I hate to use that word here) creates all kinds of problems, including “forcing” people to live double lives and–much worse– fostering the belief that we somehow can earn or lose our salvation by one act of commission or omission. So, the foundation of this entire CBC/MFI system is one of fear, false Christianity, and inauthentic relationships.
That Eternity receives “donations” is interesting in and of itself. I haven’t seen their corporate documents, but it must be a for-profit since Ed receives royalties, and churches pay for Eternity services. So, maybe it has a tax-exempt and a for-profit side? Whatever the set-up, the whole thing seems pretty fishy.
Speaking of, I never have understood how churches, non-profit “ministries” and the like can offer “gifts” in exchange for specific donation amounts. How is that not a purchase?! Sorry for that tangent, but if anyone knows how people get away with that, please enlighten me.
November 30th, 2005 at 9:27 pm
“…creates all kinds of problems, including “forcing” people to live double lives and–much worse– fostering the belief that we somehow can earn or lose our salvation by one act of commission or omission. So, the foundation of this entire CBC/MFI system is one of fear, false Christianity, and inauthentic relationships.”
Regarding the above quote: I couldn’t agree with you more! I felt that way, and was saddened when I left and was out of the scene to learn from others that they had been going through similar experiences as I at the time. When I left, I thought–geez, I must be a pretty terrible person because I was never able to live up to certain standards & quotas. When I left, I found out that I wasn’t alone–there were lots of people that were hiding their thoughts, feelings, actions, etc., to save face & avoid the judgement from others. It’s so sad. Now, I try really hard to love people for who they are & be as real as I can with others. I just wish churches like CBC could be the same way. It does “force” people to live a double-life! And, what’s the point in that?
Karli
December 1st, 2005 at 2:22 am
Apostle Paul, where are you?! Sounds like it’s not just the Galatians who rely on the Law and works to achieve righteousness and salvation. The City Babylonians have most assuredly reverted back to a cross-less version of Christianity. Circumcision now comes standard with every new conversion, followed by a Kosher reception in the visitor’s lounge.
December 1st, 2005 at 12:34 pm
“City Babylonians”
That’s classic.
December 1st, 2005 at 1:47 pm
I totally remember the t-shirts that Jack and Eric made for Generation Unleashed. It was the first interesting, original thing anyone had ever tried and I always wondered why the two of them never did it again. I should have guessed, really, because what a typical CBC move to make (donate or die!!). And now any shred of originality or personal expression has been stripped away, and their designs - really, their ideas - have been thrown into the manufacturing plant that is CBC. It wouldn’t be so sad if it weren’t so common.
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