Here is the letter I received from CBC’s lawyers, Davis Wright Tremaine LLP:
(Click the image to open in a new window)
And here is my response:
(Click the image to open in a new window)
City Business Church
It is not by grace that one enters the kingdom of heaven, but by tithing. – Damazio 3:16
haha. good times. So what’s next now, JP? Are you planning on a new logo or do you plan on not conceding?
-rock
are you an idiot? Yep he’s gonna concede in the first . Went threw all of this to concede. Yep that’s it rock.
der
great effort. we just can’t see the damn thing.
try printing out the page.
or click on the letter and in the lower right hand corner there will be a button that will enlarge the letter.
if you still can’t read it, email me: citybusiness@gmail.com
and i will send you a copy of the letter.
To those who have Christ as their personal savior and have a desire to be more like Him and also have a desire to grow.
This is a very important message regarding unity and offenses that can affect relationships,work and in the case of this blog,church
I think everyone can relate to an offense of some sort.That person who took advantage of you. The friend or family member that disappointed you or let you down ,either by accident or intentionally . The things your spouse or partner said . We all have been offended to some degree so I think it is important to address this issue .
What kind of person are you? Are you the type that person that people want to be around because you have an agreeable spirit ? That is,you have harmony in yourself and cause unity around you . Unity at work ,in relationships or at church . Or do cause division? Do certain people avoid you because they are afraid of what you might say or because of something you have said ?
What destroys unity ? Unresolved offenses. The word offense is derived from a hunting term meaning to bait and catch prey which is exactly what Satan does . He baits you into a situation and once offended,ensnares you .You then live in that offense until it begins to affect your life . An unresolved offense can lead to distrust and disloyalty . It can change the way you think,talk, judge life and it can begin to defile your attitude . It can also open you up to satanic harassment
What are some signs that you have an unresolved offense ?
Strained relationships.Not only with the person who offended you but with others as well . Proverbs 18:19 says An offended brother is more unyielding than a fortified city, and disputes are like the barred gates of citadel
Have you isolated or closed yourself from people
Do you resist authority. Are you the kind of person you resists council. Proverbs 19:20 listen to advice and accept instruction, and in the end you will be wise . Hebrews 13:17 Obey your leaders and submit to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give an account . obey them so that their work will be a joy,not a burden,for that would be of no advantage of you .
Do you drift from local church to easily. If you have an unresolved offense , resolve it instead of running from it
You imagine a lot more than what’s true
The river of the Holy Spirit begins to dry up . You start to lose your prayer life,devotional life,worship life and servants heart.
Bitterness has spread through your soul. Hebrews 12:15 See to it that no one misses the grace of God and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many.
You become a critical , fault finding person . You say things like “I see things how they really are, my perspective is right”, You claim to be an expert fault finder (which no one likes )You like to list peoples faults . You think sarcasm is a social grace and think cynicism is the norm. Romans 14:13 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead,make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother’s (or sisters)way
How deep is your offense ? How long have you let it go on ? 1day,1 month,1 year .Resolve it my friend. be the better person .take ownership of the offense and move on and you will be blessed for it .Your relationships will improve and grow. You will be successful at work .And you will help further Gods kingdom at church.
I pray that all of you will look at the big picture, forgive everyone always, release bitterness and not live in the past .I pray you will be full of grace and not judgmental or critical. I also want you all to know that im coming to you with this in love and (believe me)personal experience. Please try to refrain from your negative posts or slander and just let this sink in and I guarantee you will grow.
thanks cat!!!
The river of the Holy Spirit put Bush in power.
WWJD
“Do you resist authority. Are you the kind of person you resists council. Proverbs 19:20 listen to advice and accept instruction, and in the end you will be wise . Hebrews 13:17 Obey your leaders and submit to their authority.”
BOSTON TEA PARTY
Your my hero JP!!!
Did WWJD just copy and paste his sermon on the butte?
probably. My, how he’s good at rambling.
Cat and RP,
You guys are so petty.
Should I add JF name to the list now?
Come on peeple. The guy was trying to be positive . There was some truth to what he said
Wow that letter looks like crap. Thanks for posting it though. I think it’s obvious enough that if you can’t even post a link to a letter, you have no way of changing or removing the logo. You suck at the internet!
Anyway, I haven’t tithed to your site on accident yet. But I will on two conditions
1. you take me to lunch. At a strip club.
2. I get a version of this site that only allows WWJD to post their rants in ONE topic rather than all over the site.
well said jp
This site has gone downhill . Who knows whos posting what
Gabe:
I know who’s posting, and its mostly you. For a guy who disagrees with us so much, you’re easily one of our biggest fans.
-Justin
You can make a version of that logo that just has the colors in the opposite order.
Their logo is almost the same as Kinko’s.
WWJD, you make some very wise points in your post. However, I really need to tell you that seem to completely miss the point of most of us blogging here. I think I can safely say generally that this blog is NOT about isolated “unresolved offenses” that those who comment here have with individuals or groups within CBC. This is about objecting to the brand of Christianity that CBC models and promotes; this is about exposing the rotten fruit of a system that historically and currently appoints itself as some sort of elitist, blameless example of God’s people. I am not bitter and I have forgiven the individuals and collective CBC for their wrongs towards me personally. I do not live in my past (and, to the extent that my past is an issue for me, it’s not CBC’s piece of my past that tugs on me, it’s other chapters in my life’s history that sometimes filter into my dreams or rare conversations about life’s regrets). I praise God that, because of Jesus, today is a NEW day, this is a NEW season, and He can redeem all that the enemy has devoured to fulfill his purposes in and through my life. The reason I personally read and sometimes comment here is because of my personal hatred of the legalistic system that CBC represents, the unfortunate frequency in which I encounter people damaged deeply by CBC and churches like it, and my commitment to live and disciple Christians very differently than CBC does.
JP, I like your simple and brief response to the CBC attorney re: the logo. It’s interesting to me that his assertion that your “right does not extend to the logo” isn’t followed by a statutory or case law reference…any lawyers out there who can definitively comment on the veracity of this statement? Usually attorneys cite statutes or case law to support their statements; the absence of any makes me wonder if it’s a true statement. I’m sure they’ll contact catalyst next; will be interesting to see where this goes…
Justin
Ive never said I disagree or agree with you . And Jesus spoke mostly to the sinners not the saints because they were the ones that needed him.
As far far as the postings go, Im not trying to be sneaky. The great thing about a blog is that you can say do whatever as everyone is so clear to point out here . And i do want to point that although i may like to have a little fun you will not find me slandering any church or joining any pity partys
In a final note you will not have to worry about my postings anymore . I started posting on here in an attempt to find where John Paul is coming from and maybe have a healthy dialogue which I feel we have somewhat. I know your in a different place than even JP but I would encourage you to continue in your personal persuit of truth and be open minded to everyone on this site. Not just the anti cbc’ers. I hope that JP is always an example of what Christ should be . I had a brother who was lost and it pained me , but I can now say that he is found . But I now realize that most the people on this site dont even respect the bible and dont want care to hear anything positive. And since bad company makes for bad character ,I bid you farewell
“don’t let the door hit you….”
…..where the good Lord split you.”
John Paul, I spoke to my wife who spoke to yours and they were talking about setting up some game night. Are you still wanting to get together?
Brandon
WWJD,
I admire your tenacity (and I doubt you’ve left for good), but I think maybe you’re a bit naive. I sat in an MFI church for 6 months having the Pastors wife mad at me. For 6 months I tried to resolve the conflict. I apologized (in person and in print). I continued to love and pray and gift on birthdays. I continued to serve in my capacity of leadership with a good attitude not talking to anyone about my struggle.
The pastor’s wife REFUSED to speak with me, and once, when we were supposed to meet to talk things out BLATANTLY decided to go shopping instead. She took communion every time it was offered freely, while I passed it up. She also continued ministering all over the world with her husband with an unresolved conflict. Her husband (whom has always treated me wonderfully) would preach sermons on not letting the sun go down on your anger. She would sit there and support him and yet not pull the humongous log out of her eye.
I cried nearly every day for those 6 months. We had been very close and it nearly destroyed me. When we did finally “resolve” things it was clear, it was not really resolved.
None of these things were in my head, and I am not blowing things out of proportion.
What was my crime you ask that made her mad and needed to be forgiven? I actually expected her to keep her word to me.
I expected that when plans were made, they were kept. (Before you go off on that), I am not talking I got offended because there was a church emergency. I am talking 10 YEARS of not keeping commitments, public or private. I am talking about a lifestyle of breaking commitments, whether it be a dinner date, an elders meeting, overseeing weddings, ministering around the world, you name it, they were not afraid to break ANY type of committment if it were inconvenient to them.
She got angry with me because I went to see her off at the airport to say goodbye after them cancelling Thanksgiving plans with me for the 2nd year in a row, the night before Thanksgiving. I went to see them off to protect my own heart from getting bitter. This pissed her off and ultimately finished our relationship.
EVEN after all of that, I waited 6 months before resigning my leadership post, and another 6 months after that before deciding to leave the church. When I left, there were just a few close friends who knew what really happened. I didn’t gossip or complain or seek to cause them pain.
SO, please do not think that a simple quotation of scripture can heal all situations. I would love to be completely reconciled. BUT, without this person acknowledging their error it’s not possible. She still thinks she was right, and has rewritten history in her head to agree.
Unless you’ve been through similar situations, YOU JUST CANT KNOW.
KM
JiminyCricket81. I spoke to a friend of mine who’s wife knows who you are from the home school days. Now that I have been enlightened as to the kind of home school Geek you are; Drowing in insecurity and longing to fit in with the cool crowd. After learning what a sad lonley person you are and how in school had no friends to speak of I now know why and understand your need to stroke the ego of those you felt unwanted by. You just want to fit in. You long for a friend and by blogging you get that social interaction you have always longed for. too bad without your computer the only friend you have is classical music. Good luck to the 2 of you I am sure you will lead a very happy life together. As far as the blog goes, I am sure no one is impressed by your bitter pointed attacks at me.
People often confuse anger and insecurity. As for me, I am not fooled by you at all. Your picture says it all in your profile. Just curious you seem to be very supportive of the Mortons, How well do you know them? I am sure you are all the best of friends by the way you defend them.
WWJD
This is an imposter WWJD fyi, I thought it would be funny since there is so mucn of that going on. esp from the origional wwjd, but he did not think it was funny, he thought everyone would take this seriousley and think poorley of him so he wanted me to post this comment letting eveyone know that this WWJD is not Gabe
IMPOSTER WWJD
Sorry . One last post.
Im sure some people may use my signature like that last one but i want to go out on a postive note .The last comment was from Master story teller whom I work with. I can disagree with you without getting offended or upset so be well .
To KariMichelle
You are a diamond in the rough on this blog and i appreciated your story . I love that you tried to resolve the issue the right wayand you will be rewarded for that kind of attitude . I want to leave you with this karimichelle, i may not know every situation but God does , and there is no situation too big for him . I personally know people who have been abused and molested and somehow forgiven those that hurt them. Continue to persevere and remenber to look to those from the bible and have a strong group of friends that help encourage and support you in a positive way .Its the people like you that i enjoyed interacting with
God Bless
Gabe
seriously dude. Just leave already.
2-14-06….4:32 pm comment….that was really not very nice. Is that what being a follower of Jesus Christ has taught you? I think that this “Christian religion” you practice, is not what our Lord intended…if you throw cruel comments and want to hurt people emotionally. Please pray and repent and ask for the forgiveness of those whom you apparently seek to hurt. I ask for forgiveness right now if I have offended you..,and may the peace of Christ which passeth all understanding….be with you. God Bless you.
I haven’t been around long enough…who the hell is WWJD? Is that Pastor Frank? It sure sounds like him or his clones…I thought this site was about free speech not free sermons…I can get those anywhere.
So, one thing I love on this blog is hearing people’s stories. The TCS/TCHS ones seem esp. crazy.
Here’s one of mine:
During my JR. year of PBC, Dave Mackin (whom I liked) came in and ripped my whole class for our laziness in our scholarship and told us how horrid our writing was and how they wouldn’t begin to hold up in a real college (I’m sure he was right). So we all endeavored to do better. SO, we agreed to help each other out, cutting time by sharing research. (We had 13 papers due in 10 weeks, mind you). We all did our own writing, but Dave felt we cheated so we all got called into his office one at a time and were questioned. Meanwhile, you know the teachers regularly used our papers to help research their courses. Just a smart use of time.
Used to line up and stand at attention for uniform inspection. Mr. Sligar scared the crap out of me when I was 7.
oh good old Mr. Sliger with his ding dong collection and spanky paddle that you had to sign after being beatin
Mr. Sligar scared the hell out of me too…I had an autograph book in 2nd grade like all the rest of my class…I asked him to sign it. He said very gruffly, “What for? Are you trying to get away with something or try to copy my signature?” I was 7 years old for god’s sake…I had nightmares for a week!
Remember Janic Dorzyski…she would have us kneel down on our knees and measure our skirts with a ruler, mind you that her skirt was always hiked up to her chest because it wouldn’t fit her around her waist!
I remember Ms. Green in high school sending my sister home because her earrings dangled…barely.
I wish I would have pointed out that Jesus never wore socks.
Nothing like fear to keep kids in line.
Anonymous 4 Ever
RE: 2-14-06….4:32 pm comment….that was really not very nice.
It is true and I do not care who thinks it was harsh. My wife knew this Jimminy cricket chick. I saw her profile and have read all of the personal attacks she makes at anyone who does not agree with this blog. If you do not like my harshness than mabey you should tone it down yourself. As for me, I am called to speak the truth good, bad or indifferent. Deal with it. No one here seems to respond to Gospel, or the Bible so why not, lets just put the gloves on and do what we do best, duke it out. I have seen so many people on this blog over the last week go from discussing things to all out slanderous personal attacks. I have seen people condem some to hell by thier own judgement and I have seen others go off on personal attacks because they are angry at what is going on with the logo thing.
respectfully
As for me……No I do not agree with the decision to steal the CBC logo but I am not going sit here at my desk and tell the mortons they are going to hell for trying to take it. I like Justin and JP. They are grown men for gosh sakes. They know what they are doing and just because some people do not agree with it does not give them the right to play God and try to send them to hell. If you cannot just disagree with someone without personally attaking them then I will make an effort to go after you myself. This is directed to Jimminy Cricket right now but it goes for anyone else.
Jimminy I have been disgusted by you and your fancy pants vocab and grammar. Your tasteless personal attacks on WWJD and everone else over the last 2 years have been pissing me off, not because I agree with him/them on everything but becasue I do not ever agree with you, especially since the only people you agree with are Catalyst and reformed pope.
This is not clok and dagger and you are not really the secret identity you assume for yourself, your just pretending here. These people are not going to invite you over to their house to disscuss the blog so for gosh sakes stop bending over backwards to kiss their a$%^. Lets just face the facts Jimminy and move on. I could go the rest of my life without hearing another comment from you.
JP and Justin, We are all looking to find the same invisable God. I hope in the end I will see you guys at the finish line. Not to sound like I know I will be there my self but just to say The Lord says Judgement is for him, I do not have that kind of time to waste. God be with you all.
To all you Anonymous out there:
I am human so please do not waste your time re-stating the obvious with how harsh my comments to Miss J Cricket 81 seem. I already know but am un-able to keep my mouth shut any longer. I will deal with god and forgiveness tonight; b4 I do to bed, should the holy spirit lead me.
respectfully
Master Story Teller
Brandon Clark
Seriously, have you been to http://www.KINKOS.com??? I wonder if people are trying to tithe there too?
4:32 WWJD – whoever you are:
You’ve descended to a whole new level. You freely admit that you don’t know me, but that also means you know nothing of my life, my loves, my hates…or anything else of significance to or about me. My life in K-12 days, thankfully, had its true epicenter away from the BT campus, though I didn’t realize it at the time. That life outside ultimately led me to the rest of my life, where (hate to disappoint) I discovered that I am lovable and fully capable of being surrounded by positive relationships…..basically, I discovered that the social scene that shut me out from about age 10 to age 17 was a fluke, and it’s never been duplicated since. I could choose to judge you and everyone else who had ever been connected with CBC/BT/TCHS, etc., and I’ve definitely had my moments, but at the end of the day, everyone else was just as screwed up and screwed over as I was….just in different ways, and not all of them had as easy a road out as I did. Obviously, I don’t need to justify myself to you or anyone else, and I hardly think what you’ve said to me has damaged MY credibility in the slightest. No, I’m not close buddies with the Morton boys….I don’t think I’ve talked to them in person (except for a few exchanges with Jesse at some point in junior high). I’m here for my own reasons….and ego-stroking isn’t part of it….which you’d know, if you looked more closely at my posting history. Yes, I’m a geek. I wear it with pride….and have watched the episodes of Star Trek TNG to prove it. As for the picture, I don’t know what to tell you…my friend Hailing took it as a candid shot and gave it to me because she liked my smile. Don’t know what that’s telling you, but, uh, good luck with that.
Now, can we please get back to the thread….this personal attack nonsense has gone on far too long, and besides, I’m enjoying the show….
Uh, just for the record… Master Story Teller is a totally different person than me. Gimcrack, you may be thinking to yourself, “Why that Cattle List has come up with another name…” but I swear it’s not me! It’s a completely other person who thinks you’re off your rocker.
(I just KNEW I wasn’t the only one!)
Master Story Teller, I want to be just like you when I grow up.
Master Story Teller, I didn’t make that comment that got you upset. Period…
Why did you have to bring me into that? I did not criticize you…
City Business Wrestling Federation…Round 2…Ding!
I think the logo on this blog is more appropriate for the church, actually. It’s direct, and to the point.
I don’t think anyone’s talking about the logo anymore. They’re all too busy fighting.
Someone asked for other TCS stories. Here’s some of my more “fond” recollections:
Having to shake Mr. Andrews hand EVERY day before leaving. That was always so intimidating to me.
Some kid asking Mr. Andrew one day why it “snows in his cube every time Mr. Andrew comes over”…..and Mr. Andrew answering without missing a beat “because I have a dandruff problem”. I don’t think any of us little 6th graders knew what to think about all that.
Standing with your nose 2″ away from a wall for 15 or 30 minutes in detention, staring at that week’s scripture verse and trying not to pass out or fall asleep.
CAN-AM, PACES, student store, the constant swapping of boyfriends and girlfriends cause the total population in your class was like 30, Twin Rocks Camp. The Power Team, DragonSlayer, the youth group being called S.W.A.T. (Spiritual Warfare and Training), the downstairs bathroom in the old BT building having a creepy shower in it, and on and on.
Oh, the “good old days”.
KariMichelle is a breath of fresh air on this blog. It’s nice to see her comments amongst the (fridge buzz) chatter of Jiminy C. and WWJD.
TCS/TCHS – I was sent to Mr. Paulsons office for God knows what. He was out of the office so I had to sit in his and wait for his return. Being a twelve year old kid, waiting for more than 13 seconds was a stretch. So I ate up all his lemon candy from his crystal candy dish – moved my way over the files along the wall underneath his window. I found my file and thought it only fair to add my own remarks and notes to each offense that was recorded. That day I got the paddle, its been a while but I believe that paddle had drilled holes in it as well.
Has anyone out there gotten one of Mr. Paulson’s “spanks” before? You have to extend your arms out straight and rest your hands on the chair. All the while sticking your butt in the air. Oh’ the good old days.
You know for all the crap that church and school did to me, I left with some great stories. It was all worth it.
Speaking of Mr. Andrew,
He used to stand at the urinal with his hands interlaced behind his back. What the hell was he trying to prove – that he had a kickstand or what?
His dandruff bad, yes. But I was always more concerned with his armpit staind shirts.
He used to make the guys shave with the oldest electric razor on earth if we had the slightest bit of stubble.
He always knew how to say the worst thing at the worst time in any circumstance. A student was hit by a car, and he stood up – addressed the school and announced he happen to drive by the accident and see them putting him in the yellow body bag.
Crazy
SKH, I vaguely remember somebody being hit by a car. Do you remember who that was, or what year that was?
Good old Mr. Andrew. I hear he’s in Mexico now.
I agree with your comment that even though there were some crazy times during my TCS/TCHS years, I still had some great times.
It was Michael Lehmann and it was September 95′
The school and church mishandled that tragedy in my opinion. The Lehmann’s are good people.
No one mentioned Mr. Andrew’s stinky feet. He used to take off his shoes and try to get us to smell them. Remember those little Christian flags we had to raise at our desks to get help with schoolwork? I decorated mine with pretty colors and got in big trouble. I was desecrating school property. I remember the navy blue gym shorts with the yellow stripes, the Creamsicles you could buy at lunch, demerits, Sara Paulson selling stuff like homemade popsicles after school on the parking lot, tetherball, Twin Rocks Friends camp at dinner with dares for prizes (swalling a goldfish, licking peanut butter off someone’s toes, etc.), and picking the black paint off the railings (oops, desecrating school property again). Good memories…
Let’s not forget Mr. Young.
He was color blind with his red and greens, so we’d all correct each others papers in green pen.
I had the best times reading our poetry in his English class. We’d read lyrics from the Beatles or Nirvana. Then he’d read something about a bird. His poetry was always about birds. Or was it something else? Anyhow, my favorite poem was entilted “Dawaynes World.”
The best teacher to teach at TCHS was Jenny Straupp – her mom was a good 1st grade teacher as well.
Off subject, why did Charlie Myers always have a boner in gym class? He’d lean up against the closed bleachers poking the wind.
Remember when…TCS was at the old building on Glisan and Mr. Andrew would bring us back from break? He’d walk down the middle of the stairs and take out his comb and start brushing his non-hair!! Oh the blizzard he inflicted on us. I tell people stories about the old days TCS/TCHS and they can’t believe some of the crap that went on there.
Boy this is fun….
It’s like a high school reunion, where you don’t have to show your face.
F’ing cowards.
People, please give it a rest. If you want to sit around and bad mouth people please post your name and email address to go along with your comments. We’ll all respect you much more for that.
Anonymous 4 Ever:
You are right, I made a mistake and I am sorry for calling you out. It was anonymoose that I should have directed my comment too.
Master Story Teller
I’ll backup JP on this one. It’s one thing to say stuff against the church/school and to even say something again JP and Justin, but when you start bad-mouthing an individual (especially a student, Sofa King Happy) then you best be identifying yourself. Otherwise, keep your comments to yourself.
Reformed Pope,
With all no respect, when did this blog/forum become a place to earn the respect of others? Secondly, I seem to remember one of the rules of the blog being, to not name names. Thirdly, no ones bashing anyone. Four, if you do consider talking about Mr. Andrew, etc bashing – What is the difference between talking/discussing Frank D. ? Everyone is using a psuedo name around here – including you.
I’m actually suprised at your response due to the nature of this forum. However, I believe you are less concerned about respecting anyone and more curious as to the authors. So it’s cool.
Point taken – Anonymous. Thank you.
Top Ten Reasons Reformed Pope is all Revved Up!!!
1. Like Mr. Young, RP is also color blind
2. RP really thought it was snowing in Mr. Andrews office
3. RP never got to use Mr. Andrews old shaver.
4. RP would tear up when Mr. Young read his poem entiltled “Blue Jays and The Bumblebee.”
6. RP took showers with Charlie after P.E. class
7. RP was moved by Mr. A’s insensitive remarks
8. RP enjoyed combing Mr. A’s “non-hair” before school
9. Summer Camp? Twin Rocks was a nickname RP had for Doug Lasset’s…
… and the #1 reason Reformed Pope’s all revved up:
“How did you know I took showers with Charlie after Gym class?”
JP’s boss is an Andrew and thus Mr. Andrew is JP’s boss’ father.
I imagine all the attacks on Mr. Andrew hit a little too close to home for JP.
Most bloggers have a moratorium on attacking the place they work, since they don’t want to get fired. Which I completely understand.
I have since come to understand Mr. Andrew a little better, but to be fair, I certainly did not have fond feelings for him in High School. He was the disciplinarian, so these attacks kind of come with the territory.
So, point taken on Mr. Andrew. If we could avoid discussing him from here on out, that would be great. Not a first amendment thing, but an, I don’t want to get fired thing.
Anwyay, thanks for the comments, whether we like them or not, they make this blog more interesting.
I love Jiminy Cricket. She is obviously a secure, open-minded, free-thinking individual. And she entertains me. WWJD and Master Story Teller, frankly, do not.
Catalyst, it’s hard not to respect your last comment. One, because you are defending your bro and Two, because it was well said.
My sincere question to Catalyst and RP if he cares to respond is this: (Prefaced with a comment)
Alot of sludge gets thrown around this blog about a lot of people. PF being the main target, should we not express our thoughts about him or his doctrine or even memories we have of him – because it might effect someone negatively who works for, or lives with, or knows him?
I think you would say no, otherwise you have no blog.
So my question: Is it okay to speak of (negatively or postitively) about anyone as long as it doesn’t affect the Mortons? Is this the message you want to convey?
Attention Eric Anderson and others making personal attacks against people who have nothing to do with this site:
If you can’t say something funny…don’t say anything at all.
This blog has never been about attacking individual people (with a couple exceptions around Christmas). Yes, we do go after the teachings/beliefs of CBC which leads to attacks on Frank Damazio. As pastor of a large corporation he is a public figure, who should expect criticism.
Feel free to attack anyone you want. I don’t care. I’m just saying this isn’t the place. If you were saying those same things about Frank Damazio or Marc Estes or Ken Malmin we still wouldn’t tolerate it.
Quite simply put, Grow up or Go Away
Are you really trying to compare criticism of CBC and pastor frank with making fun of somebody’s dandruff? Frank directly affects CBC’s policies just a tiny bit more than somebody’s flaky scalp or morning wood. So while it’s probably not good to bash Frank personally, there is at least a little context. I think you need to quit trying to justify being petty and taking cheap shots at people because I bet you would feel differently if somebody told a nasty story about you from back in TCHS.
On record, I love Mr. and Mrs. Andrew…I thought Mr. Andrew chasing kids around with his shoes was funny. I loved how he wasn’t afraid to talk about his faults, like dandruff and stinky feet. Mr. Andrew would be the first one to make fun of himself. He has a wonderful sense of humor. You have to learn to laugh at yourself and not take things so personally. I admire him for that…and think he is wonderful. So, there!
Bravo Fezzik,
Your absolutely right. I’m making light of a situation. The point is, in high school everyone is awkward including the staff sometimes. Who cares? No body unless it directly affects them.
What context are you speaking of? Yours, right? Did you ever take the time to think that I was taken out of context?
Your saying its okay to bash one and not the other. Even when not I, nor anyone else (if you read the transcripts) bashed anyones character. Statements on whether you have dandruff and whatever is hardly defamation of character. It’s kwirks of the human machine.
Yet, you say its okay to bash Frank, becuase that’s in context, because he’s the big bad wolf who you don’t like who preaches from a boob. Who’s only motivation is money, and cares less for his congregation than the tithes that come from it. You slam him at every opportunity. These are areas of character – not dandruff.
Yet, for the sake of argument, let say that dandruff is a topic of character defamation. Is Frank’s lisp not? Becuase that has been brought up.
You are at fault for as much hypocricy as you claim CBC has.
I can respect Catylist, because he was honest as to why he didn’t want those comments made. Whether they were hyporcritical or not. They were honest. Rock on Catylist.
You my friend, are pointing your finger at me for what? I still haven’t figured it out. You and RP and many others do the same thing with every post. Except with you its okay cuase you don’t like Frank.
You know what, if someone were to tell a story about me – if it was true – who cares? We all shit – We’re all human.
One last thought regarding Mr. Andrew. as much as I didn’t like his dandruff or whatever. He was always good to me, treated myself and siblings with dignity.
Lastly, where were your comments RP and FEzwik and any others… when Wayman Steel or Doug Lassit were brought up a few weeks ago. Oh’ that’s right, they were not made. So please save the crap, JP that you would defend anyone else, etc.
RP sounds like he could be intellilgent, but with these latest statements he just sounds like a sycophant.
Thanks for those of you who like my posts. I am just a girl standing in front of a church, trying to understand . . .
I wanted to hear stories because:
1) I am human and frankly like the gossip
2) It helps me get why so many people have problems with CBC. I didn’t but I left in 95. It seems like those who went to TCS have the most issues with CBC and I wanted some insight as to why. PBC was a much different experience , I think–it’s a theory I’m testing.
3) When I hear stuff like Howdy requiring people to sign a paddle–that is just sadomasochistic shit in my opinon (can I swear here?) and TOTALLY goes to the heart of why people are so messed up after encountering CBC.
4) I was not privy to the dysfunction that CBC has–just it’s fruit in an MFI church. Comparing the fruit helps me figure my own stuff out.
I feel guilty reading/writing/enjoying the gossip—but I feel guilty about the Frank stuff as much as anything else. A lot of things feel tainted here (even bitter?) for MYSELF, not judging all ya’ll. I have to weigh the good against the bad.
Peace,
KM
By context, I meant Frank is a frequent subject of this blog. That doesn’t mean I think that’s license to rip him to shreds personally, but it’s at least on topic.
How is saying “bashing Frank is probably not a good thing” is endorsing bashing? If that statement confused you, then let me make myself clear for you. I don’t endorse personal attacks on anyone here and don’t participate in them. You can feel free to look back at my posts to see how much personal bashing or insulting I do.
Also, I didn’t say you were assassinating somebody’s character, I said you were taking a cheapshot at them. That leads me to the point I was hoping you would catch…two wrongs don’t make a right. You’re being just as obnoxious and petty as the people you’re criticizing.
Fezzik, you dog you!
I love this latest post. Love it!
You said:
“How is saying “bashing Frank is probably not a good thing†is endorsing bashing? If that statement confused you, then let me make myself clear for you.”
What a sly move Fezzy. You misquoted yourself. You cherry-picked your own statement. Brilliant.
Lets refer to your original post – statement:
“So while it’s probably not good to bash Frank personally, there is at least a little context.”
Your little response failed to answer the question of: What context?
Becuase the topic of the blog is to bash Frank – and no one else?
Lets read more of what you said:
“I don’t endorse personal attacks on anyone here and don’t participate in them. You can feel free to look back at my posts to see how much personal bashing or insulting I do.”
Funny thing, in this post as you personally bashed me. By the way, it makes me sad and should be condemned. Like RP said: Grow up or Go Away!
Back to your bashing that you don’t endorse.
“You’re being just as obnoxious and petty as the people you’re criticizing.”
Lastly, who did I criticise?
If making a truthful statement such as Mr. Andrew had B.O. and dandruff is critcising?
What does observation mean? Are you one of those people who doesn’t call Mexicans, Mexicans?
Will you describe a black guy, by everything by the color of his skin – cause you think it’s racist.
Look Fez, Dandruff is a condition not a disease. Snow is metaphorically being used to describe. So Description. He had it. He knew he had it. Everyone on this site knows he had it. What’s the secret.
It would be critical if I said, he wasn’t hygenic because he had dandruff. That is criticizing. I did not criticize Mr. Andrew.
I have not criticized anyone including you, even though you have loaded all the amminition.
KariMichelle,
Your honesty is what this blog needs.
Let’s be honest RP doesn’t care if you make fun him, his mother, or his little sister Jesse but when being mean try also to be funny.
Will these posts ever stay on topic? This is ridiculous. It’s like children fighting in the schoolyard.
Sorry Sofa, but you’re wrong.
“So while it’s probably not good to bash Frank personally, there is at least a little context.â€
“How is saying “bashing Frank is probably not a good thing†is endorsing bashing?
Both say bashing frank is probably not good and therefore wrong. The context, like I gave you in the last post, is that Frank is a subject of the blog because he is the main policy maker at the organization this blog is dedicated to, CBC. All the context statement says is Frank is a topic. It makes zero value judgement on bashing him, just says he’s a frequent topic of conversation. If you want to nitpick that, then go right ahead.
Also, I didn’t personally bash you, I criticized your points and your previous statements. I don’t know any personal details about you other than your approximate age based on students you have mentioned, so it would be tough for me to take personal swipes at you right now.
As for the criticizing, you defended your previous comments by saying RP and Catalyst take shots at Frank so you’re just playing along. If you don’t call that backhanded criticism of Frank bashing, then what do you call it?
Now as much fun as it is splitting hairs, I’m done playing that game. If you want to dissect everything I say, go right ahead. The funny thing is we probably knew each other in school because I was around TCHS more or less the same time you were.
On a more topical note, it’s really funny that CBC spends time and money on attorney letters against a blog that, according to that letter, they don’t mind. Since I’ve never seen anyone confuse this blog with the actual CBC, what’s the issue?
maybe it’s just time for everybody to stop talking.
Fezzik,
Regardless, I don’t really care. I made comments. JP and you didn’t like them and therefore wanted to split hairs over the context… blah, blah, blah.
I don’t invest a lot of stock about what that church does, however there were good stories that came from that place.
I completely understand that this blog is not a democracy and therefore free speech is prohibited.
I also understand that Truth is not a democracy. If you or John Paul or whoever wants to take a vote on gravity and conclude it doesn’t exist. Fine. The fact remains that gravity does exist. The fact remains that Mr. Andrew had “snowy” dandruff. The fact remains that that is a description of a condition and not a criticism. I am not pointing out a fault. I have commited no slander. I am stating a fact. Because you and JP choose to think one thing is a criticism and another not, or whether something is up or down, or whatever is besides the point. The point is the truth isn’t up for a vote.
Except in here, where there is no democracy (no free speech) and very little truth.
That is all
To please the esteemed pope or anyone for that matter. Here is my email if you have any response that you don’t want said publicly.
fraterklingbatzz@yahoo.com
Michael
So much bad blood from BT. It’s astonishing that you could have any bad experiences due to the fact that there were so many hot girls.
Why are you discussing Mr. Andrew when you could discuss girls like…
Girls like who?
Jessica
MeriEsther
Heather
In all fairness, once I graduated from TCHS… and then tracked down Mr. Andrew a few years later…
… the guy was pretty cool. As an adult, I was able to see things through HIS eyes, and it really changed my opinion of him. He was a good guy, doing a very difficult job, the best he could. Sure, he made lots of mistakes.. but no more then anyone else would have, including myself.
If he had lived in Portland, I think he would have been one of the guys I’d have liked to call a friend.
I don’t respect a lot of people in this world (especially from CBC), but he turned out to be one of them.
jane
pam
debbie
How bout we vote on the top ten and then find “Where are they now!”
minivans stuck in traffic…
Question to KariMichelle,
Could you please disclose the name of the MFI church this happened to you in?
If not, can you ansewer yes or no: is it located in Vancouver?
Don’t mean to put you on the spot. I really have a legitimate curiosity.
Thank You!
LoveMyLab
Anon 6:15 pm
Eloquently put, regarding Mr. Andrew.
Regarding Mr. Droppa, I was in his class when he was forced to resign. I never stayed around long enough to get the whole story, I would like to know very much for my own healing as being one of his students at the time. If you don’t want to say anything publicly please contact me via email.
fraterklingbatzz@yahoo.com
A legitimate curiosity . . .oxymoron? But no, it is not in Vancouver. And if I did disclose it would hurt some innocent people. The pastor himself is a godly man and never once did anything to hurt me. He’s one of the most humble and sincere people I’ve ever been associated with, I just think he ended up being somewhat unequally yoked. He did his best for me in a difficult situation.
KM
So, which one is JP’s boss? Rick, David or Kevin? Just curious…
Sofa King Happy, are you on Myspace?
Anonymous 808pm,
Not yet, should I?
Totally up to you, my friend. I just wondered.
No one started beating down on Sofa King until Reformed Pope said to knock it off. Up until then, others were contributing their thoughts, not only about Mr. Andrew but Howdy Sliger as well.
What’s the problem with reminiscing? I didn’t go to TCS, am I missing something?
I don’t think their would have been as much bickering back and forth, had people not taken some of the comments so seriously.
Sofa King is a “smartass” but I don’t think anything he said was out of line or malicious.
MT
I am sofa king wee todd did