A Horse’s Assness
Posted on March 5th, 2006 by Reformed Pope into the Comments From Others category
Here’s a little different perspective on my last post.
I sent a copy of it to my friend Rian, who always looks at things a little differently, and this was his reply.
After many days of reading bits and pieces I finally was able to get thru this novel.
I’ve got to say it kind of comes across a little hypocritical to me.
Honestly, it doesn’t make me think wow the Well really is a good place (that might be because I already think that), or I wish I understood grace in my life like that (understood, that might not be your point). Instead it makes me think, "Why don’t you just leave those people alone". I understand that they are horse’s asses, but so are we. I don’t see where it makes them any smaller or bigger horses asses (again, might not be your point).
Granted I haven’t been reading the blog so I am out of position to really say anything about it.
With a story like this I think what happens is everyone that already agrees with you thinks its a great story and that it shows exactly where CBC’s problems are. Meanwhile everyone that thinks you’re a bitter jerk, still just think you’re a bitter jerk. It just seems like a point like this story is trying to make gets lost in the horses assness of the blog.
I think the blog is great when it is a big joke and everybody is making fun of everybody. That’s what I live for…making fun of people, hurting peoples feelings, etc. But, personally I don’t get how this story would do anything on the blog other than expose “the leader”.
Just telling you what came to mind.
Rian
Anybody else feel this way?
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March 5th, 2006 at 4:28 pm
Hmmm….
Makes me wonder if, when the pharisee and teacher of the law walked by the man who was beaten, robbed and dumped in the ditch, if they kicked him.
Like, how dare you express your hurt, man. (Reminds me - where’s the emoticons for sarcasm, roll eyes, etc.?)
You know, it’s always struck me as, hmmm, a symbolic picture of ‘church life’, that many catholic churches in old europe are built on grave yards, or have buried deceased members beneath the floor of the sanctuary. Seems to me, that the road to most ‘churches’, are often littered with the dismembered bodies and victims who were maimed along the way.
Pharisees and teachers of the law, suck.
;^)
March 5th, 2006 at 11:47 pm
Why is it that a community that talks so much about supernatural transformation shows so little of that transformation? We will have to be men and women who embody the message that we are preaching, whose lives are faithful to the claims we are making.
Cliff Knechtle in his book Give Me an Answer, © 1986 IVP writes: “We all either try to hide our bad sides or we try to make them look good. But deep inside we all know that we fall short of living the way we know we should. No one can escape the charge of “hypocrite” — no one except Jesus Himself. He is the only One who has lived up to God’s standards; He is the only One who has perfectly lived what He preached. Only through…Christ can we escape the penalty due our hypocrisy… By living within the security of Christ’s love, we are free to peel off masks and to become real, honest people.”
Ruth Bell Graham, wife of international evangelist Billy Graham, shares the true account of a young college student from India by the name of Pashi who once told her, “I would like to believe in Christ. We of India would like to believe in Christ. But we have never seen a Christian who was like Christ.” Ruth Graham says that when she consulted Dr. Akbar Haqq about what might be the best response to Pashi’s challenge, Haqq answered decisively, “That is quite simple. I would tell Pashi, ‘I am not offering you Christians. I am offering you Christ.’”
The Church is not perfect. But Christ is. Fasten your eyes on Him.
March 6th, 2006 at 7:31 am
“Granted I haven’t been reading the blog so I am out of position to really say anything about it.”
I think this sums up Rians ability to comment on the blog or understand how the blog is carthtic to readers and writers while (in whatever small way) holding the CBC machine and leadership accountable for it’s actions and their affects. Someone needs to stand up and speak the truth and call a spade a spade and point out that in fact, the emporer has no clothes on. If in the process you must be called bitter, so be it. There are worse things to be called.
March 6th, 2006 at 7:40 am
…not that I meant Rian any ill will, I just feel it’s impossible to really understand the depths of people’s feelings and how this helps them without reading the stories of their pain.
It’s also impossible to understand how truly misguided the CBC machine is without reading the specific examples that people had lived through or heard with their own ears. I mean seriously, you couldn’t even make some of this stuff up if you wanted to.
March 6th, 2006 at 7:55 am
It seems to me that this is all very much in the eye of the beholder. If the post in question was something that was spoken to a live or recorded audience, or even handwritten, it’d be different. None of us has as much ability to deliver a comprehensive look at how we feel about something through the internet as we do through almost any other mode of communication. Online forums are limited — emoticons and italics, etc. are about as close as we can come to really expressing tone of voice, emotion, etc. So, if someone chose to read what RP said about The Well and impose a completely cynical tone onto his words, that’s the way it’d sound. Funny, isn’t it — because, in my opinion, the Bible works kind of the same way. It’s a written source of information, and we can try to get as close to the actual words (the actual spoken or sometimes written source) as we want, but we still weren’t there in the situation. Like it or not, it’s all a long ways past second-hand transmission. Living in a foreign country has really driven this home to me: it’s not only about what you say and how you say it, but who you are when you say it and who you’re saying it to. And, speaking to someone in person is still the easiest way to say the most with every verbal and nonverbal tool at your disposal. Variations that seem slight can completely change everything…..to the point that there’s really no such thing as taking a statement at face value. Complicated, ain’t it? So, from where I’m sitting, Rian’s comments are as valid or as invalid as anyone else’s (and, just to make it even more sticky, it’s totally possible that I or anyone else is in turn misconstruing what he said/meant)…and therefore, worthy of being taken under advisement. Ahh, the beauties of perception vs. intention.
Reason #6794 why being a human isn’t so easy.
March 6th, 2006 at 8:32 am
Cricket, I often like what you have to say and appreciate your perspective, but that lost post/thought was very confusing to follow. So, without getting into a discussion regarding human nature or getting into a discussion on how the whisper game is played, let me try to clarify and make this as simple as possible.
1. Rian is of course welcome to his opinions and they are as valid as any-ones. I am of course allowed to disagree with him which of course does not invalidate him.
2. However, how can Rian judge if something has value on the blog if he admittedly does read the blog? If he doesn’t read the blog and thus understand why people post AND why people read, how can he effectively judge if something has value on the blog? That’s what I am saying plain and simple.
…Oh, and I also wholly disagree with the concept that because we have problems with can’t comment on others problems. (aka: we are both horses ass’s) How then would anyone be held accountable? Furthermore leaders are held to a higher standard. Christians love to pull out the, “Judge not lest ye be judged.” Which is a complete misunderstanding of that scripture. I don’t mind at all if the same standard that I am using to judge in this instance is applied to me. If I was a leader and coercing people into tithing and using a power structure to control them, I would then be open to judgment and criticism myself. Alas I am not, so in return you can only judge on my life that I live and to that I say, I am a sinner saved by grace just like everyone else.
March 6th, 2006 at 8:54 am
Hmmm … have re-thunk Rian’s comment - it’s the honest assessment of a friend - suggesting (between the lines) that you move on with your life - and implying that the ones who hurt you aren’t worth the time and effort you’re giving them. Rian’s comment below makes me think that:
Instead it makes me think, “Why don’t you just leave those people alone”.
Perhaps Rian has been reading this:
Ecclesiastes 2:11-26 GW But when I turned to look at all that I had accomplished and all the hard work I had put into it, I saw that it was all pointless. It was like trying to catch the wind. I gained nothing from any of my accomplishments under the sun. … (17) So I came to hate life because everything done under the sun seemed wrong to me. Everything was pointless. It was like trying to catch the wind. (18) I came to hate everything for which I had worked so hard under the sun, because I will have to leave it to the person who replaces me. … (22) What do people get from all of their hard work and struggles under the sun? (23) Their entire life is filled with pain, and their work is unbearable. Even at night their minds don’t rest. Even this is pointless. (24) There is nothing better for people to do than to eat, drink, and find satisfaction in their work. I saw that even this comes from the hand of God. (25) Who can eat or enjoy themselves without God? (26) God gives wisdom, knowledge, and joy to anyone who pleases him. But to the person who continues to sin, he gives the job of gathering and collecting wealth. The sinner must turn his wealth over to the person who pleases God. Even this is pointless. It’s like trying to catch the wind.
March 6th, 2006 at 10:23 am
I only had a chance to skim through your comments so I am sorry if I have missed any of your points.
The thing that stands out to me, and I have heard similar comments in the past when catching up with the blog, is the idea that this blog is holding someone accountable. I don’t see how that is happening.
I may not have heard the latest changes that CBC and/or its members have made to answer for some of the valid issues this blog has brought up, but it sounds to me like the only action you are getting out of them is their effort to protect some of there trademarking. Which, mind you, I do think is funny.
I should add, to whichever of you is thinking using the emoticans is a good way to show emotion you should probably flip off your computer and get out a little more.
March 6th, 2006 at 2:11 pm
fearthecurse,
Ok, point taken….I re-read what I said, and it is organized a little strangely…sorry about that. Here’s what I mean:
Rian’s got a point, it seems, regardless of whether or not he reads the blog. It’s completely understandable for him to be reading things that way (meaning he sees much of what happens here as counter-productive), and he’s likely not the only one who does. I’m not sure any of us can know right now whether he’s right or wrong.
How much Rian does or doesn’t read the blog definitely factors into how seriously we should consider what he says, but it’s not the only determining factor.
Blogs in general necessarily have a lot of mis-construing attached to them because they’re “sterile”. We can’t trust our instincts to perceive what others are trying to say and we can’t rely on our motives or emotions to come through adequately when we say something.
I don’t think we disagree, actually (and just for good measure, Rian, I think you’re exactly right about the emoticons). I just think this one situation is a nice representation of a bigger issue that may not be avoidable in this kind of forum.
Hope that’s easier to look at…and thanks for the dialogue.
March 6th, 2006 at 8:07 pm
Hey Rian, are you related to Candice and Cassandra Tuttle?
March 7th, 2006 at 10:08 am
Yep.
March 10th, 2006 at 11:17 am
I went to Candie’s 7th birthday party at Oaks Amusement Park. At least I think it was her birthday party.