Testimony Time
Posted on March 10th, 2006 by catalyst into the Comments From Others categoryHere is an excellent testimony from Micah Modrall. I had to cut some of it out, because it's a little long, but if you want to read his whole comment click here:
I grew up in BT/CBC, was involved in the homeschooling program, and also attended TCS/CCS for several years. My experience with the Church can be characterized in the same way that many people have chosen to depict it on this blog: overall, it was empty, meaningless, often discouraging, and sometimes a painful experience.
It was not until after I left the Church, for good, that I was able to understand, and view things outside the bubble of isolation that many are so comfortable living within. I saw how superficial members and leaders were, how little concerned the Church was, with pursuing the original teachings of Jesus (e.g. feeding the poor, egalitarianism, open commensality, healing, and abandonment of temporal dependence, etc), and was given the opportunity, finally, to grow and mature on my own, without oppressive social expectations of the Church.
What I discovered, is, that most of my new (secular) friends, were not only more accepting and appreciative, but also, usually, characterized by a greater level of moral integrity.
Not having gained anything from the Church spiritually, and finding out, that, often times, people I met outside CBC’s influence, were of greater value to me as friends, made it very easy for me to never attend another Church service again — I felt no guilt, no greater absence of God in my life (versus before), and was able to focus on learning and discovering who I really was, and what purpose and meaning God had given my life, free from the legalism, conformity, and hypocrisy provided by CBC.
Now, certainly, there were good people who participated in the schools, programs, and services affiliated with CBC, however, in my experience, it goes without saying, that the bad heavily outweighed the good.
So, in conclusion, I guess what I really would like to say, is that I totally support this forum/blog, but, would like to see people devoting more energy into creating something BETTER then what CBC offers. This does not mean go out and start your own Church; it means go out and start your own personal, individual movement. Do whatever it is that you need to do, in order to improve the quality of your life and those around you, go out of your way to make sacrifices and work to achieve YOUR goals and dreams!
People will follow, that is what they do. Follow. Lets try and give all those CBCers something better to live for, show them that meaningful ways DO exist to express the love of Jesus.
Just my two cents.
That's actually more like a dollar's worth of opinion. But still good thoughts and insight.
RSS feed for posts
March 10th, 2006 at 8:26 am
I agree! Instead of just complaining about the “system” and the ways “churches” sometimes miss the needs of the people, we should make changes starting with ourselves! All talk and no action changes nothing. A misconception that I grew up with at CBC was that there were “ministers” and the “ministered to”. It was like the difference between aristocracy and peasants. A “minister” rarely came from the “ministered to” group and the children of the “ministers” were pretty much expected to become leaders/”ministers” in some capacity. I even remember a youth camp I went to with Gary Zelesky when he asked us to ask God what He wanted us to do for our future. Then, when we all got together again he had all those who God told that they would be in ministry to come forward. 90% were children of the current church ministry/leadership…the other 10% were nobodies…children of the “ministered to”… Do you think the children of the “ministers” went up because God told them to…or because they felt that they would be chastised if they did not. The camp counselors and leaders were also exclusive as to who they prayed over…the “ministered to” group were pretty much ignored and showed signs of their discomfort in standing up there… I think back at how ridiculous that was! We are ALL called to be ministers!…FULL TIME, EVERY DAY MINISTERS… It should be synonomous with being a Christian. We are to feed those who are hungry, heal the sick, visit those in prison, etc…who said we have to be in leadership or have the label of “minister”. Let’s ALL be ministers!
A group of believers and I are starting a Christian mother’s support group with the intent of truly supporting in ways other than just “talk”. It came when our needs as mothers and our desire to help each other were not being met. We’ve called it “Mother’s Village”…you can check out our blog…http://mothersvillage.blogspot.com if you are interested. So, I am glad that this was said!…and just wanted you to know that there are people who are getting out to make changes and not just complain!
March 10th, 2006 at 10:19 am
That is more then I have ever heard a Modrall talk. Glad to hear you have found your peace.
Rp can we try to be a little less angry? Tanell does need some friends.
March 10th, 2006 at 10:35 am
I accidentally cut this line from Modrall’s comment out of the post. But it is the best. I love it.
"After removing myself from an environment, that I view as repressive, conformist, classist, materialistic, and spiritually suffocating, I had to spend a great deal of time reversing the effects of the indoctrination I had received."
Classist and spiritually suffocating are two of the greatest adjectives I have ever heard to describe City Bible. If that’s bitter, then sign me up for a small group.
And what do you mean? Tanell doesn’t need friends, she’s got A-Mo.
March 10th, 2006 at 10:41 am
Hey Micah,
Good to here from homeschoolers who don’t stutter… sounds like you got your arrows pointed forward.
I was just wondering how long it took you to reach this enlightened state since leaving CBC/ homeschool program, ect.
Your words have the ability to give hope to others. Thanks for “coming out”.
March 10th, 2006 at 11:14 am
I don’t know Micah but his testimony is very thoughtful and his reflections on his time at CBC mirror my own in so many ways. Instead of writing my own testimony out can I just say “ditto?”
March 10th, 2006 at 12:22 pm
Excellent post Micah,
I think that is how many of us feel. Thanks for sharing.
March 10th, 2006 at 1:48 pm
Hi, my name is Matt Foley and I am a motivational speaker!!!
http://garyzelesky.com/home.htm
Seriously, though, I remember this guy and a similar (if not the same) event “garland” described. It’s funny how Christian youth leaders are always looking for that silver bullet to get kids to stay in line and stay in church. Looking back now, it could have only been more humorous if he had stated that he lives in a van down by the river and lives on a diet of government cheese. I’m sure he’s a fine motivational speaker, but even his own web site fails to make any mention of God or the church. Maybe he also got fed up with his own nonsense about motivating people to perform to please God. (Hint: It can’t be done.) But they still try it every year and charge a lot of money and sell overpriced merch (surprised?) for various youth conferences.
March 10th, 2006 at 2:13 pm
Hi Micah,
I can’t say I know you personally, although I do know your parents fairly well. There’s no question that the church is broken in a lot of ways. On the other hand, Jesus is building his church (but not my church or your church). Somehow I think Jesus knows what he’s doing, and somehow we still have opportunities to participate.
I agree that it all starts with us as individual Jesus-followers. We are redemptive representatives in a broken world (including a broken church) and can make a difference on our journey. However, we still need friends. We need a supportive network of real relationships with a purpose (my idea of church). I pray the Lord has given you good partners on the road.
BTW, have the local members of this blog ever thought of getting together?
March 10th, 2006 at 3:10 pm
I checked out the Zelesky site…it appears he does motivational speaking now. You are right about no mention of God. Maybe he doesn’t try to motivate others to serve God anymore. I wonder why?… I do remember him being a very good speaker though. Do you or does anyone remember the big capture-the-flag water fight? That was the funnest thing I ever did at camp!
March 10th, 2006 at 3:20 pm
I am wondering, as a former member of CBC, back in the day of Pastor Ivorson, and for less than a year after the baton passing, how many dissatisfied church goers were and are second genneration Christians? It sounds as if many, if not all, of the disatisfied, share this in common.
March 10th, 2006 at 3:26 pm
off topic…. but me and my gay friend were talking today about how him working at Christian Supply would be the equivalent of a child molester working at Toy R Us
Do you people agree? :-p
March 10th, 2006 at 3:39 pm
I remember the capture-the-flag water fight. Good times. We also had an “unauthorized” midnight run up a trail on the hill behind the guys cabins, past some big fake Bigfoot statue, to an opening where the stars seemed a hundred feet away. One of my best friends lost a shoe in ankle deep mud, as we ran in the pitch black that night, scared out of our wits!
I also remember all the lunch time dares, and how seriously the foosball and ping pong tournaments were taken!
BTW…I received a “word from the Lord” from Gary Z at one of those camp years that has yet to come true. Not that it isn’t still a possibility…just saying.
And I thought I heard a few years after Gary did our camps that he had some kind of scandal (affair, drugs, ?…can’t remember), so perhaps that’s why now he appears focused more on just being generically motivational, rather than religiously!
March 10th, 2006 at 5:31 pm
Micah,
Beautifully written post, and nice to hear your story. I knew you somewhat distantly way back when as a fellow homeschooler….and a fellow student at Tracy Durkee’s in-home art lessons (as I recall, she had you pegged for an abstract artist and me for a portraitist…). Welcome to the “family”.
March 10th, 2006 at 8:16 pm
Hah, that remark made me laugh — in a good way.
March 10th, 2006 at 9:03 pm
Magledon,
Hrmm, enlightened state? I guess that is one way of putting it. Not the words I would of chose, but we can work with it
As stated previously, it was not until I completely left the Church, that I was able to discover who I was for myself, and experience life for what it was, outside the confines of CBC– at that point– I was able to become conscious of everything that I had gone through.
While I made some good friends at CBC/CCS, I did not feel very accepted, and struggled with that, especially after first entering the Church’s school system (this phase was quite brutal). I never felt like I could completely be myself, and was never inclined to play “the game” that so many CBCers mask themselves behind. I was somewhat of an outcast, not so much as others, but I had a small circle of real friends.
As long as I was attending Church, mostly youth group, I felt the social impacts, the guilt, and frustration, of not correctly meeting the demands of CBC’s cookie cut members. I was always someone who inquired “too much” or asked questions that disrupted or somehow misrepresented the ABSOLUTE truths of the Bible.
I remember at a summer camp, Doug pulled me aside and told me I had a rebellious heart, because I did not stand up, dance, sing, lift my hands, and worship with the same enthusiasm as the rest of the camp. He was very confrontational with me, and I will remember this event for the rest of my life. When I challenged him, and asked him what he was talking about — how he could reach such a conclusion — he did not have an answer for me. Instead, he looked at his watch, realizing that he had somewhere else to be, and magically, on the spot, received a word from God. This word from God was that “he was wrong”, and inorder to quickly resolve the situation so that he could attend other business, he told me that “God had spoken to him”, and that “he was told by God that my heart is pure”. I was thoroughly disgusted with his attempts to manipulate me at the expense of God.
So, anyways, yeah, a lot of people labeled me one of the rebellious ones, simply because I did not manifest my enthusiasm for God the way I was suppose to.
To get back on topic, it probably wasn’t until my Junior or Senior year in highschool that I began to develop and feel comfortable with who I was. By this point I was in public school, and had lots of supportive friends and people who cared about me, regardless of what kind of relationship I had with Jesus, or what kinds of questions I had about the Bible and Church doctrine.
I felt much more accepted and loved in this environment, and it definitely helped me progress as a person.
The quality of people I have met, in terms of providing significant meaning to my own life, were much more profound outside of CBC’s social structure, and these people have helped shape the person I am today.
There was never a single event, or episode that allowed me to “see the big picture”, it was a gradual progression that occurred when I voluntarily stopped participating in CBC culture. Looking back on those days makes me laugh, but at the same time feel a great deal of sympathy for the people who had it much worse than I — and there were a great number of people who suffered more than I could ever imagine.
The majority of the memories I have of CBC are funny, because that is the way I have decided to characterize them — to simply laugh at how ridiculous things used to be, and be thankful I have moved beyond them. However, I feel sorry for the people who are still stuck there, and unable to break free from the very small box they force themselves to experience life in.
March 10th, 2006 at 10:06 pm
Larry Asplund,
Thank you for taking the time to respond to my post. The memories I have of you are very vague, however, I realize that you are/were friends with my parents.
To be quite frank, I do not believe that CBC or most contemporary Churches that I have been exposed to, are doing anything, in a meaningful way, to express the true and original teaching of Jesus. I know that better Churches exist, and have heard great things about The Well, however, right now, I do not see it to be in my best interest to attend Church — or actively find a Church that better suits me. Presently, I am doing just fine without Church.
However, I do understand and accept your interpretation of what the Church should be. It would be nice of the leadership of a Church could uphold those standards, yes?
CBC to me, is more of a social club, than a Church. A lot of rich white guys dressing up in suits and enjoying “Christian fellowship”, right? I know that it is unfair of me to make that kind of a generalization, but that is largely how I see things.
When I see CBC, I see greed, I see people who are takers and not givers. I see a lot of superflous material possession, that amounts to nothing in the Kingdom of God. I see a lot of gratuitous living, a lot of luxury, and a lot people neglecting those suffering in our city.
I see a lot of Christians who are nothing like their Christ.
These are not the kinds of people I choose to have as meaningful additions to my life. These are the kind of people who take away from the value and quality of my life. They are narrowminded, superficial, and unable to think for themselves — they are the ones who need to be SAVED and find JESUS.
CBC is home to a lot of people who pray to a WHITE Jesus with blue sparkling eyes. They are fake, just like their Jesus, and know nothing about what they believe in. They are grossly mislead into believing a great deal of information that holds little or no substance in REALITY.
They have no faith in God, or Jesus. They put all their faith in the leadership of the Church, in science, technology, and medicine. They believe in men and have faith in man. What they lack, is FAITH IN GOD.
Where are the miracles, the signs and wonders, the healings?
Why does the leadership of the Church feel it so necessary to live such extravagant lives? Why don’t they give up EVERYTHING for God? Why don’t they live in the hands of GOD — and not take continuously from the hands of MAN?
Sorry, Larry, to have to direct all of this at you. I know nothing of your character, but view you as someone who understand more than I — and, might possibly, be able to shed some light?
Now, the purposeful relationships that you speak of, are indeed, a integral part of success, especially within the context of a Jesus movement –however–I simply did not find any of that during my experience with CBC.
I do not think people MUST go to Church to establish these kinds of meaningful connections with their peers.
You can find meaning and purpose in your life under any circumstance.
Thank you for praying that the Lord has given me good partners on the road. I appreciate that. And, in fact, God continues to bless me every day with new experiences, friends, and meaningful interactions! He will do the same for you, whether you go to Church or not.
Ps. I hope this response is not offensive, my intentions were not to inspire negativity, but to, candidly, share my thoughts about CBC and the purpose driven relationships you spoke of. Best of wishes, and I hope your walk with God continues to grow, and you never lose touch with the ORIGINAL movement of Jesus.
March 10th, 2006 at 10:52 pm
JiminyCricket,
Wow, I am impressed with your memory. You have definitely taken me back many years with your remarks!
All I remember about Tracy Durkee is that my brother and I took art lessons from her –and that, we drew these crazy multicolored birds with magic markers. Good times.
Just out of curiousity, are you still active in art?
March 10th, 2006 at 11:47 pm
Hey People, I haven’t posted here in awhile, but I’ve been around. Anyway, Micah, I totally relate to your post. I made some comments awhile back along these same lines.
I haven’t attended church since fall of 98. Like Larry A. was saying, I saw church as a way to network with other believers, but in the end, I was let down by the network (CBC), and found little support in networking with others. Too many fake people that wouldn’t get real. Then, when I tried to be real about my past or whatever, I was made to feel like the only sinner around. And so many people were into their image. I totally related to WW’s article about Gen. Church being like an Abercrombie & Fitch ad. In addition, PBC chapels were like stepping into a Bath & Body Works store–to this day when I smell Sun Ripened Raspberry body spray, I think of PBC.
There were some great people I met along the way at PBC and CBC. Unfortunately, when I quietly left CBC (I just stopped going one Sunday), most of those people stopped e-mailing. I do try to focus on those people to improve my impression of church in general, because their impact on me when I was up on the hill was meaningful at the time, but try as I might, it’s never enough to make up for everything else that negatively impacted me.
Anyhow, I’m with you, Micah in that it was when I left CBC that my life turned around for the better. Unfortunately, because of my experience there, when I’ve tried out other churches and am reminded in even the smallest way of CBC, I go the opposite way. In the meantime, my relationship with God actually does exist apart from going to church, even though there seems to be a lot of CBC’ers that think otherwise. And, back to the networking thing, it does suck not having a lot of nice, friendly Christian friends to hang out at Starbucks with along the way, but it’s okay–I’d rather be where I am now than where I was before. You win some, you lose some.
Karli
Hey GreySheep–recognize you! Long time! I don’t have a current e-mail for you–e-mail me at karli@hevanet.com.
:)
March 11th, 2006 at 7:32 am
Micah said:
Micah, we don’t know each other, but your comments resonate with me. ;^) I’m originally from the Seattle area (now in the midwest), and though I’ve never been to CBC, have experienced the same kinds of things at local churches where I lived.
There’s a short story available on the web, called ‘Escape from Christendom’ that you might enjoy reading, at the link below. Far as I know, the link is the authors simple, ad-free web site.
http://www.mmirror.net/escape_from_chrisendom_-_the_journey.htm
Blessings! (spiritually speaking, of course ;^)
March 11th, 2006 at 9:07 am
No I don’t. I don’t see being gay as a “problem”. I see it as nothing more then my own problems of gossip, the occasional lie, and not helping my brother when I see him suffering on the side of the road.
I don’t have a problem with someone who is “gay”. I do, however, feel that someone who embraces and actively participates in the homosexual lifestyle is a problem. The bible says we should run away from sin. Homosexuality is listed as a sin, and thus… we should run away from it in the same way we should try to run away from *every* sin, no matter how big or small or the social stigma attached to it.
March 11th, 2006 at 9:15 am
I remember how pressured I felt to raise my hands, hear a “word from the Lord”, and act all spiritual while going to CBC too. I was determined to be genuine most of the time…I tried with all my heart to be “right” before I did do it…although, I have to admit “faking it” on occasion.
You know…you have to be very careful about prophecy. Of all the prophecies that have been spoken over me, there was only one that really rang true. A prophetic bard minstrel came to a church I attended in California when I was living there. One of the things he said was “though heavy handed authoritarianism bruised you in your youth…God is now moving in marvelous truth”. The people at the church and the prophet (who is probably one of the only “prophets” I would be sure is one) had no idea of my background or upbringing in the church…and the church I attended was in no way connected to BT/CBC. Everything else he said was true as well. I have had other moments of supposed “words from God” that I believe were just someone trying to manipulate me or trying to maintain a position of “prophet”. I too believe that God has spoken to me before about people or things as “prophecy”…but, when my heart is not right with Him I hear nothing. I suppose it would be easy to make up something so no one knows the state of my fallen heart. However, isn’t that considered blasphemy?…and doesn’t the Bible say that the “unforgiveable sin” is to blaspheme the Holy Spirit?
March 11th, 2006 at 2:30 pm
OMG the pressure to raise hands garland… I remember my resistance so vividly. How could that be happening to teens still today?
Child abuse.
March 12th, 2006 at 6:19 am
Micah,
Performing arts, yes (I’m a choral conductor/aural skills and music theory teacher/voice teacher/singer/bad pianist); visual arts, no….though I wish I was. I still break out the watercolors every now and again when I want to make a concert poster, and I have been known to draw J.S. Bach’s family on the chalk board to demonstrate to my pupils how many 21 kids really is….and I still tell my students that my art teacher made me draw with pen instead of pencil so I’d stop trying to fix my “mistakes”, and that they should do the same thing musically — sin boldly, as it were, and work with what you’ve got. I think she was a genius…with her sniffling Persian cat….ahh, the memories. Are you still involved in art?
March 13th, 2006 at 7:36 am
I think you hit upon a point that we can all agree upon. That is, that many of us who post here feel (or felt) that CBC is no longer the Church that Jesus is building. There are plenty of examples from this topic alone without me having to give further details about why I feel this way.
But I can’t help but cringe when I hear someone use a phrase like “Jesus is building His Church”. What the heck does that mean? That Jesus is doing things in the world that we have no control over? Are we absent from the process somehow? I don’t like the connotations of certain Christianese phrases because it projects a type of mysticism upon our faith that ultimately attempts to absolve us of the responsibility for our involvement in the outcome! In this case, Paul described in 1 Corinthians 12 the idea that we are the church that Christ is building, and we make up the many parts of it. Yes, I agree that it is His Church, and not our church, but that does not mean we aren’t repsonsible for our roles in how it develops. We all still have the ability to choose to do the right thing, but more importantly, we all still have the ability to show other members the same grace that was shown to us. On the flip side, when a member abuses the life of another member, we have the responsibility to take measures to hold that member accountable, whether it be confrontation or removal. You may have varying opinions about this blog, but at least the boys are trying to hold someone accountable for what they see is a wrong against “the Body”.
As an aside, there are other Christianese phrases that I refuse to utter, and am somewhat offended by, because they replace faith with mysticism: “Trust God” (for what?), “Give God control” (God never asks us to give up our free will), “Have Faith” (ironically - in what? if God didn’t promise you something, it’s not faith but wishful thinking)….there are probably more but I’m just ranting now.
March 14th, 2006 at 12:50 pm
keep going FICM…
I’m making a christianese dartboard.
March 14th, 2006 at 12:53 pm
I think this might be one of those things that deserves its own topic. I’ll get back to you on that.
March 15th, 2006 at 7:25 am
There are plenty of other places on the web you can find Christianese sayings, but I’ll give you the one that offends me the most: “Anointing”.
Also known as the “Duck, Duck, Goose Method of Leadership” (term coined by FearTheCurse, so I can’t take credit), this philosophy of choosing people for ministry is a complete farce, and basically amounts to whoever is being the most submissive to leadership (i.e., doing exactly what they’re told and tithing the most). Be really good and get a lot of face time with the leadership and eventually you’ll be singled out, perhaps even prophesied over, to do something really fantastic for the church - for free, or if on staff then for slave wages. This all happens under the pseudo-spiritual facade of something called “anointing”. Never mind picking the people most talented or capable for the job, just pick the one least likely to rock the boat.
March 15th, 2006 at 11:08 am
Wow–I am enjoying this blog a lot! I could probably rewrite your post, replace “CBC” with “WestSide”, and sign my name to it. And I have several close friends who went to bible college with me who could do the same. I think that there is a movement/backlash/postmodern rejection of christendom/rejection of consumerism (any of those descriptions are accurate) that is definitely taking hold of a big part of american evangelicalism.
I’m not real familiar with CBC, but my understanding is that it is tied to Portland Bible, correct? I grew up in a CB (’conservative baptist’) church, and ended up going to Multnomah (at least, until I dropped out). It is amazing to me to see this blog full of you guys who are essentially going through the same thing. A number of my Multnomah friends and I are going through the same process.
So where does that put us? Where do we end up? Do we create a new movement? I assume that you have read all about the “emerging church” movement. Do we all sign up for The Well and just do Christianity with a new, nicer face? Do we fundamentally reject some of the theology of our childhoods and embrace a more open Christianity? Do we work out our own beliefs between us and God, and try to live life in a loose-knit community (’church’, if you will..) based on friendships, blogs, and working to right social injustice? I don’t have an answer–I’ve personally thought about all of those options.
Let the discussions keep coming…
March 15th, 2006 at 11:34 am
The first thing for ppl like us is to keep talking. The answers arent clear enough yet but I can see an organization that displays the ingredients for a future of hope. The current christianity doesnt really need hope.
“The earth is going to be destroyed in armageddon anyway, right?”
Currently, we are all fed the line that “humans are born “evil” or “in sin”. That idea needs to disappear. The future doesnt even need to be a religion. It just needs to be an open forum that people can interact in that ties people of “love for now”, togather.
March 16th, 2006 at 2:17 pm
Magledon:
Thanks for your comment. I don’t know if I can completely sign up, though. I suspect that a lot of us who grew up in fendamentalist setting, even if we are willing to reject fundamentalism, aren’t prepared to reject a relationship with Christ completely either. Speaking for myself, I don’t know exactly what an ideal spiritual life would like like in a postfundamentalist setting, but I suspect that it will involve less of a formal church organization, and much more informal community and discussion, such as this blog here. But I take it that you feel differently? Have you decided to totally reject christian orthodoxy? What makes you tick and decide to participate in this blog?
Regards,
–Dave
March 16th, 2006 at 11:22 pm
I just wanna keep my weapons Dave!