Marathon Sickness
Posted on May 12th, 2006 by Reformed Pope into the Comments From Others categoryHere is one readers comment on Frank's latest sermon on the Marathon Vision. This reader has never been to City Bible Church and doesn't know much about them. Maybe he's picking up on our offences or maybe he's just got a discerning eye. Let's read on and find out:
Good grief - what a load of crap that was. Listening to it really tested my endurance - my ‘discern-o-meter' was going off like an air-raid siren.
There were SO MANY things that upset my Spirit …
Continual references to OUR vision and OUR church. Talk about self-centered - I thought it was JESUS church!
The use of Hebrews 12:1-2 to underscore the CBC vision - which is an entirely out of context use of the scripture. The race is run *personally* and *individually*, and the writer of Hebrews, in speaking to the individual Hebrew peoples is effectively saying "let us lay aside ever weight" (through off any/everything that hinders you) so you can run the race, and there's Frank loading people down with burdens - give give give, work work work, expand expand expand - oh - and by the way - if you don't agree with me, YOU NEED TO CHANGE. Talk about phariseeism / teacher of the law searching the world over for converts and making sons of hell out of them.
Hebrews 12:2 is the message of the cross, and how Jesus endured the shame of it all … Hebrews 12 sets the stage for Hebrews 13:13-14 which exhorts us / ALL OF US, to join Christ "OUTSIDE THE CAMP" (of conformity / religion, et al), where Christ is, and where WE TOO endure His shame (the scorn of religious people, etc.).
In one place, Frank referred to CBC / the building as the "HOUSE OF GOD" - that is a BOLD FACE LIE AND ERROR! Apprently Frank has NOT read Acts 7:48, Acts 17:24, Matthew 23:38, 1 Corinthians 3:16 and 1 Corinthians 6:19.
Loved the "Vision = Resources" twist, which springboarded into the comment that the "tithe (was) not enough money" … doesn't take a genius to put to gether "vision = resources = money" … and loved some of the financial numbers being tossed out - that there was a $3,000,000 debt that they wanted to retire, classrooms to renovate (?), and then $600,000 spent on feeding people, etc. Let's see - I don't remember a number for renovating the classrooms, but, feeding the poor, etc., clearly accounts for far less than 1/6th (16%) of giving? Man, if World Vision, or Feed the Children fund had such a poor use rate on donations, they'd dry up and blow away like an old cow pie.
Then there was the ‘how many of you come here BECAUSE OF THIS CAMPUS‘? I wanted to vomit - I found myself asking rhetorically "Doesn't anybody come here for Jesus"?
And I was really put off by Frank citing the various church stats near the end of the speech - he cited size stats, number of services, number of campuses, simulcasting, etc., each time seeming to revel in the fact that CBC was in the upper echelon of the stats he was referring to. Anybody remember the OT story of David, who counted the people which angered God - either because it was self-exalting of David or because it boastful of the strength of man? See 1 Chronicles 21 …
…
I guess the laughter and amens heard in the background just go to show, that there are always sheep willing to follow a false shepherd.
What I heard there made me want to barf.
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May 12th, 2006 at 9:25 am
Any church leadership should ask the question. Are we making much of ourselves or making much of Christ? You cannot simultaniously draw attention to yourself and Christ.
May 12th, 2006 at 9:42 am
I listened to the sermon(?) and came away thinking, “arrogant”, “abusive”,
“diatribe”, but after some thought, I think it is worse than that. What the above poster said about taking scripture out of context is very true. In Second Peter 1:20 thru 2:3 there is a serious warning about using scripture for your own interpretation. I’d be interested to know if anyone
else thinks FD falls under this scripture warning.
May 12th, 2006 at 1:19 pm
Two of the most unsettling things Frank said, was the comment “I’m not going to change, YOU NEED TO CHANGE” and the comment about whether people were there to “restrain, aid or judge” CBC …
One of the Biblical measures of a healthy and relationally interactive Church, is found in 1 Corinthians 14:26-33 … basically it says whenever people get together, everyone and anyone with something to offer (as led by the Holy Spirit) can share their portion in turn. And when that person is sharing, the others listen, and the gift of discernment is there to sort it out. Like the statement “the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets”. If someone comes up with a message while another is speaking, the one speaking should yield … as it says “all may prophesy in turn” … in light of Revelation 19:10 which says “the spirit of prophecy is the testimony of Christ”, it is clear a healthy church permits everyone to testify about Jesus in turn, subject to the discernment of the body.
But Frank’s statements effectively shut down all discernment - by his statement(s) he has made himself and CBC to be ABOVE discernment. The relational church that Christ intended, where people are supposed to break bread in a love feast, has become the Pastor Frank show.
It’s not my intent to make a literal interpretation of the Corinthians scripture reference, but rather address the spirit of it, and that is a spirit of inclusiveness and openness and doing all things in spirit and in truth …
I don’t hear anything reminiscent of inclusiveness and openness in Frank’s message, nor do I hear anything even remotely resembling worship “in spirit and in truth” … it’s Frank’s way, or the highway.
From my knothole, discernment is sorely lacking in CBC.
Jack
May 12th, 2006 at 1:54 pm
I don’t think many people there would argue with that statement.
They believe that God has placed each pastor in their position for a reason and when you disagree with them you are going against God’s will and by doing so you may remove yourself from under their “covering”.
If anyone see’s it differently please speak up, but that’s just what I have seen and heard. And yes, I find it rediculous.
May 12th, 2006 at 2:12 pm
That 2 Peter 1:20-2:3 reference is right on. “They will make mercandise of you.”
Not unlike Proberbs 6:26 “For a prostitute reduces you to a piece of bread. ”
At least you get something for your bread with a prostitute.
May 12th, 2006 at 3:32 pm
RP - It has been that way since the B.T. days. Worse yet, the same dynamic takes place within the leadership itself. If you look closely you can see their Koolaid mustaches.
May 16th, 2006 at 5:12 pm
I just want to add that I to listen to the service the Marathon runner.
It was very sad, I am still grieved at the error CBC has embraced without
a thought. Yes Jesus is still there, but you really have to wade
through a lot of poop to to find him. Not very pleasent.
May 17th, 2006 at 12:03 pm
sounds fun 7777…
definitely my idea of living in Christ!