Tracking Tithe
Posted on May 14th, 2006 by catalyst into the Uncategorized categoryA reader called Grace and Peace asks a question about City Bible.
I have family members who have been pulled into this church. Does anyone know how CBC entices and tracks the required tithe of church members?
I know how they entice tithe. They preach on it for 50 straight sermons, until you've finally had enough and you're tithing, not so much to bless God but to get them to shut up about money.
However, I am not sure how City Bible tracks tithe. So I'm throwing this out to our more knowledgeable readers.
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May 14th, 2006 at 6:39 am
Micro-chip implants. That’s also how they track what time you get to the service, where you park, where you sit, and how often you raise your hands.
May 14th, 2006 at 11:50 am
It’s just one more thing for the NSA to track. It’s all cash for me from here out.
May 14th, 2006 at 11:58 am
So today’s sermon was great.
Pastor Frank talked about Bill Gates and how he has a model of a future house.. and he was like AND YOU CAN CHECK YOUR EMAIL ON YOUR FRIDGE
and he was getting all excited about that and saying how Bill Gates controls our lives and the way everyone does things..
It was just funny.
May 14th, 2006 at 3:45 pm
In every church I ever attended, the treasurer tallied up the offering plate - and giving was credited to the individual who gave it IF it was by check or in a numbered offering envelope. At the end of the year, a statement was sent to each member.
As for tracking whether giving keeps up with the 10% expectation of the church, the church could only determine that IF the member(s) disclosed their income to the treasurer. I *never* disclosed my income, though I suppose it could have been imputed based on the job I had, and the standard of living I enjoyed. And I’ve NEVER known a church where the treasurer wasn’t a hand-picked yes-man of the pastor - and so the pastor defintely knows whether or not you are giving, though probably not what percentage.
It seems to me tithing compliance is relies on making individuals feel obligated to tithe by the skillful use of guilt, shame and legalism from the pulpit.
Locally, there is a church with grand plans for expansion, where the pastor asked members to bring their paycheck stubs and W-2 forms in to compute the tithe for them. The few who refused to comply were asked to leve. Believe it or not, the church is growing.
The abuses I’ve heard are jaw-dropping. Pastors refuse to pray for members who do not tithe. Levels of membership based on giving. People giving to the church rather than paying rent or buying food or medicine. I stopped posting letters from people about 3-4 years ago after writing a series of articles on the tithe - still - there’s some heart-rending stories to be found in the old letters, at Responses to the Tithe Articles.
Thought this might amuse:
From: charisma@strang.com
To:
Date: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 2:56 PM
Subject: Charisma News Service Update for Tuesday, April 17, 2001
===============================================================
CHARISMA NEWS SERVICE Tue, Apr 17, 2001 Vol. 3 No. 16
===============================================================
NEWS BRIEFS: CHURCH THREATENS NON-TITHING MEMBERS
Members of a Boston area church who are late with their tithes have been told to pay up or they will be kicked out. More than 200 congregants at the Holy Tabernacle Church of God in Christ Apostolic in Dorchester have received letters warning them they have 30 days to straighten out their accounts, “The Boston Globe” reported.
The letters advise recipients that they are “in default of payment of tithes,” and that if the money is not received “all privileges of membership in the church will be immediately suspended.” The “Globe” said that the letters were the latest skirmish in “an ugly power struggle” at the church.
Around 70 worshipers filed a lawsuit against the church earlier this year contending they were not given a voice in choosing the new pastor. Arthur Jack took on the leadership following the death last year of Joe L. Smith, who founded the church in 1966. By the time of his death, the church had expanded from a handful to around 1,400.
Among those who received the tithe warning was Sandra Smith Cosby, the founder’s daughter. “My spirit just kind of broke,” she said, reported the “Globe.” “Our job is to bring people in, not kick people out.”
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Copyright 2001 Strang Communications Co.
May 14th, 2006 at 3:49 pm
Levels of membership based on giving. Just like Scientology!
May 14th, 2006 at 3:51 pm
Nanoo, Nanoo!!!
May 14th, 2006 at 6:06 pm
Someone explained it well in another post; CBC assigns each member a tithe #. Beyond using it to create giving statements for members to use in filing tax docs with the IRS, leadership there uses it for all kinds of creative things: deciding who is “faithful,” who “deserves” “positions of authority,” who gets stellar prophecies vs status quo phrophecies (during presbytry), etc. It’s all truly evil.
We’ve talked ad nauseum about giving vs tithing on this blog, so newbies, you’ll find lots of info on prior posts.
John 444, My current church has a bookkeeper count all offerings, make deposits, and otherwise track giving in order to produce giving statements. Our senior pastor does not look at that data. He says he doesn’t, and I believe him because of who he is, but also because I am not giving much these days and continue to be involved in many ministries, continue to be treated like I’m special by the pastor and other leaders, etc. It’s almost like a sick little test of mine, because of my past at CBC and other churches that placed far too much emphasis on the size of my financial contributions. It began unconciously, but now I’m fully aware that this is my rationale for not giving much these days. I feel guilty because my current church deserves my financial investment more than any of those in my past. Mostly I feel convicted by the Lord. Much like my current family and friends shouldn’t have to “pay” for how my family of origin and previous friends treated me, my current church shouldn’t have to “pay” for the sins of my prior churches. I think I’ll end this little test soon because it’s so immature. I suck. Fortunately, the Lord knows that and loves me anyway.
May 15th, 2006 at 5:18 am
FFTM,
I admire your honesty and introspection. No doubt some of the more extreme views I hold are the byproduct of past treatment, where I expect and even look for the same types of treatment in the present, and then use it to justify my stand-offishness where it comes to meeting with other believers.
Yesterday, I attended my mother-in-laws church for a ‘mothers day’ service, and it was so surreal to me … no one other than the husband and wife pastor team spoke, and I found myself listening for “religious-speak” (errors) of which I counted several; the empty faces of the congregation while they sang a hymn about “surely your presence fills this place”; the song they sang about clapping their hands where they did not clap their hands; singing a 50 year old hymn which was about singing a “new song unto the Lord”; a half dozen references to the building as “the house of God”; the religious twist on the “vine and branches” parable/metaphor as an exhortation to “go to church”. Oddly, if the vine and branches story is a metaphor for “go to church”, how is it that the “pruning branches” metaphor is not a metaphor for being pruned from the church?
It was pretty easy sitting there, quietly, and keeping score. Either they hit on most of the things I’ve written about lately, or they hit on the topics of the songs included in my upcoming CD. I did feel ‘justified’ in holding back.
Hard to sort out my part, because it wasn’t just abuse and manipulation that drove me away, it was gross error. After all these years, I still have mixed feelings about it. I didn’t feel I could correct the pastor(s) for the errors they were speaking and I didn’t want to imply my approval of it all by my participation, so I just sat there so as not to hurt / offend my mother-in-law. You know - being polite.
If I ever went back and was inclined to give, it wouldn’t be a tithe, or a percent of any kind, nor a fixed amount, but only what the Spirit led, to whatever person the Spirit led me to give to (I already do that, but not in the context of an institutional church).
What clarifies the subject of giving for me, is deconstructing the modern church model to sort the good from bad. Sticking to the Biblical Church model of believers meeting in each other’s homes where everyone shares food (real and spiritual) and a pastor does not rule over the people, but befriends them and walks beside them on the path, I feel no obligation to support a building and maintenance staff, but just the people the Lord leads me to support. That is consistent with Matthew 17:24-26, where in regard to paying for buildings, Jesus said “the sons are free”. Knowledge of history helps too; there were no dedicated church buildings the first 300 years of the faith - they didn’t start popping up until after Constantine made Christianity the state religion of Rome, wherein a civil-government-like heirarchy was adopted for church government.
Yet, if the Lord so directed, I would have to support a building, though I would surely protest first.
I can’t help noticing Matthew 17:27, where Jesus gave to the temple-tax collector so as “not to offend them”, or notice that Aaron the priest made the golden calf when the people demanded it of him. Aaron was not judged for it, but the people who demanded it were. While I have no personal use for religious buildings (in keeping with what I’ve been shown and Acts 7:48, Acts 17:24, Matthew 17:24-27, Matthew 23:38, 1 Cor. 3:16 and 1 Cor. 6:19), I would have to support the building/maintenance of one if the Lord ever directed it.
Guess there are no ‘pat’ answers; we just have to do the best we can to follow the Spirit’s leading for us.
If it makes you feel any better, you don’t suck any more than any of the rest of us do, especially me. My greatest fear is, with resisting the “go to church” mantra of the IC, is that in the end all I will have succeeded in doing is ‘hiding my light under a bushel’ to the detriment of those who go to the IC and are in darkness. The haunting question for me is: “do I have to let them drive me out of their meetings” - it was their words that drove me away - no one ever physically removed me. What if I just stayed, and continued to prophesy (speak the truth / Revelation 19:10)?
I hate thinking / introspection.
May 15th, 2006 at 7:52 am
CBC employees can opt to have their tithe taken from their paychecks. I have heard of them calling employees on the carpet because they don’t tithe/give 10% to the church and that is what is required of employees.
Other than that they have no idea if Joe Schmoe is actually dropping 10% in the bucket (do they still use Kentucky Fried buckets?).
May 15th, 2006 at 8:30 am
I went to CBC yesterday, first time in months (not counting the conference). Yes, they still use the KFC-style buckets.
Like John444, I found it totally surreal — and that was my church for years and years. The worship was good quality, but worship is a personal thing and God will always meet you wherever / whenever you worship Him.
However, the sermon was the biggest boatload of New Age drivel I’ve heard in a looooooong time. For a church with a “Bible College,” you’d think the congregation would be more scripturally discerning.
PF is starting a new series on “Imagine” (yes, with a cute little graphic of clouds and sunshine). He started off with the story of Solomon when God said He would give Solomon whatever he asked for. And then it launched from there into you can have whatever you can imagine. Your vision is too small… ask big. Be like Bill Gates, be like Walt Disney… you, too can have your dream, and even get God to give it to you.
Never mind what it cost God to give us His favor. Never mind what it costs us to walk in it. This was just more of the “Peace and Safety” lullabye that has put everybody to sleep, fat and happy with their tummies full of warm milk.
It’s not like I can go to PF and say, “What are you doing????” I went to the people I had a relationship with, and got nowhere. It was Frank’s way or the highway, as said before, only they said it so nicely.
So I asked one of my friends, “How can you sit through this? Doesn’t it make you want to scream?” The answer…. “Well, no church is perfect. We just keep praying. We are with Celebrate Recovery, and we help people.”
And what they don’t say is that most people derive their spiritual self-esteem from the church; it’s where they get their accolades. Because of the all-inclusive nature of the beast, it’s where all they spend all their $$$, their time, and where their friends are, etc. To leave is a huge personal upheaval. So it’s easier to stay.
Ok. Off the soapbox. I wish it were funny. I wish I make a silly comment about the whole thing. But there’s nothing funny about a car-wreck.
May 15th, 2006 at 10:45 am
One thing you need to remember is this fact:
The more you tithe, the more likely you are to use a “tithing number” so you can get a donation receipt for the tax man.
If someone is tithing 10% of one million… then they would effectively be “losing” a whole lot more then someone who is tithing 10% of 10k.
The odds are MUCH higher that 10k income earner does not know about charitable donations, and that they can get money back from the government for their “donation”.
The one million person, on the other had, likely got that one million from knowing exactly how the system works, and you better believe they aren’t just dropping $100k of CASH into the bucket.
So in this way, it is very easy for a church to know who are the rich sitting in the pews. They basically announce themselves.
And heh… if YOU were the
CEOPastor of a big monster church with operation expenses in the millions, wouldn’t YOU want yourboard membersleadership to be rich, too?A church like CBC doesn’t “grow” or “prosper” unless there is a consistant flow of cash coming through the door every Sunday. Otherwise… they’d have to be dependent on God to bless/sponsor their “vision” instead of just doing it themselves.
But then, one could argue that having a church full of rich people is indeed God’s way of blessing the church.
:)