Thank you all for you enthusiastic response to my meeting with Howard. Reading your comments took me back about 18 months to the passion I once felt in regards to City Bible Church. I would like to address some of the comments and will do so, but maybe it would help if I tried to explain myself a little better first.

When we first started this blog a year and half ago I still felt (and was) very connected to CBC. I still had many friends that went there and spent a lot of time talking with people about the church. After giving over 10 years of my life to CBC I felt I had a right, and duty, to call out the errors of their way.

I did just that. And it was good.

Now fast forward 18 months, I haven't stepped foot inside the church, I only have a few friends that still attend there (I can't imagine why) and don't really know what's going on anymore. At this point I can confidently say they are not the same church that they were while I was there.

Yes, it sounds like they are worse off now then when I was there and that they are continuing to head in the wrong direction, but I don't really know for sure. At this point it just doesn't seem to be any of my business. There are millions of screwed up churches out there and I would like to focus on more of them then just the one I used to attend.

It's not because I believe they may have changed for the better, its because I just don't care anymore (yes CBC, another point to show that I am not bitter).  As I said before, this does not mean that I will never write about City Boobie again, I still may…

Please don't take this post as a resignation or a concession. It's just time to move on.

And now for your comments.  

Comment 1: Maybe I got it wrong, but, why wasn't someone willing to meet with you a long time ago?

They made 1 previous attempt (2 if you count Larry Asplund, but I think he knew he was on his way out). I met with Marc Estes when the blog first started. He didn't seem to care about what I was saying. He was only there to tell me why I was wrong. He threatened to "Do what ever it would take to make the blog stop", but never followed through.

Comment 2: Can I ask you honestly? Doesn't the 18 months, lawsuit, etc., kinda let the air out of whatever happened in your meeting with Howard? I mean, clearly Howard cares, but he's just one man. What about CBC the institution?

They are what they are. Right now, I feel I have made my point and as we all know, there is no point in beating a dead horse. I had never spoken with Howard before that day and I stand by what I said. He's a good guy.

Comment 3: Does talking with one man really give you closure?

Not really. I believe this blog and the many comments by all of you have given me closure. My meeting with Howard was just a nice way to formalize it all.

Comment 4: Yea, so Howard's a great guy, and he cares. Guess what. There's other great guys up at CBC…who probably would care too…But it just seemed like you shared the conviction that many of us have against institutions like CBC, and now you're backing away faster than a Joel Fahndrich post.

There may be other people up at CBC who care, I haven't spoken to any of them. I've been through so much on this blog: talks of lawsuits, multiple threats, countless meetings, my family even got Uninvited to a 3 year olds birthday party; all because of my actions. There's been nothing "fast" about it.

Comment 5: We've spent a lot of time on here spelling out the things we've disagreed with in terms of doctrine, philosophy, and policies of CBC, the actions of the pastors, elders, etc. None of that has changed, but now you feel good about it because you had an amiable meeting with Howard?

I don't feel good with it. I still don't agree with the way they do things, I'm just tired.

Comment 6: Let me give you a hint: Howard is the head of CCLI because he's really good at something. That something is making people feel good about agreeing with him… So is it any surprise that you felt good coming out of that meeting? Not in the least. Unless you already know Howard and are willing to look past the slick salesman (as sincere as he is), and stay focused on the issues, you're not likely to make any "progress" towards resolving your philosophical issues regarding what church should look like, especially when it comes to tithing.

I don't get a "slick salesman" feeling from Howard. I believe he genuinely cares. Howard and I are still communicating about our "philosophical issues", but we go to 2 different churches now. Chances are real good we won't agree on everything. The important thing is that we can openly debate the issues.

Comment 7: And now that I see how you've backed off, I can't see why I should be reading here any more.

I'm not sure why anyone reads here anymore. Things have gone downhill since we posted our last Christmas song.

Comment 8: RP said himself that there is a time to judge intentions and a time to judge actions. I have a hard time when I hear that someone who has been a CBC elder for 20+ years has pure intentions when he continues as part of a church leadership group that misrepresents Scripture to boost their income.

How about this then?

In dealing with me…Howard had the best intentions. His actions backed that up.

Comment 9: Howard seems to be ok with that tithe policy as he referenced 10% tithing in his last blog post….and hasn't posted since. As FICM already pointed out, I have no doubt that RP was sold on a salespitch by an experienced salesman, nothing more.

Howard sold me nothing (except this great CCLI T-Shirt).

Comment 10: I have always found that actions speak louder than kind words and "pure intentions". If I believed every religious salesperson that had "pure intentions" and a good sales pitch, I'd probably be a Mormon.

How true. Mormon's really are the best humans aren't they. I look forward to seeing many of them in heaven.

And so I took a deep breath and walked right in…

Howard sat quietly in his dimly lit office, flanked by a row of angry businessmen. The smell of fresh brewed Starbucks coffee filled the air. "I hate the smell of Christians" I muttered to myself. Clearly no one was happy to see me.

As I approached the desk they began to mock me. "You don't tithe, because you suck at math" one yelled. "Quick, what's 10% of minimum wage" another shouted. I couldn't help but feel like Carman in "Witch's Invitation".

As I sat down the businessmen began to surround me, the whole time they were chanting "C-B-C - Give to me, C-B-C - Give to me". I was spooked. The chanting grew louder. "C-B-C - You owe me, C-B-C - You owe me"  I didn't really understand what it all meant, but it didn't matter they were inching closer and closer.

I wasn't sure what to do next when suddenly everything went dark…I could still hear voices but wasn't able to see a thing. Something had been placed over my head. It smelled familiar, but I couldn't quite place it… wait a minute, I thought, it's a tithe bucket. They've covered my head with a tithe bucket.

I leaped to my feet only to be tackled to the ground. They began to tie my hands with a rope, I tried to struggle free but it was a three fold cord, which not even the Power Team could break. I felt like my life was coming to an end when out of nowhere I heard a voice speak.

"Untie Him"

As I looked up something shone brightly in my eyes. It was a man… wearing a purple suit.

"Howard?" I asked unknowingly, "Is it really you"?  

Saying nothing he reached down, extended his hand and picked me up. I've never felt more compassion in all my life.

"My son" he said, "Today you are…

Ok, I've got nothing else. I'm only making up a story because I don't think most of you will be excited to hear how my meeting with Howard really went. I'll tell you anyway.

Howard impressed me.

It was clear from the very beginning that he had no hidden agendas. All he wanted was to know why I was so upset. He didn't want to condemn me for this blog. He didn't want to threaten or scare me. He just wanted to help.

Do you know how refreshing that is?

There's a bit of timing to it all. I've been feeling for some time now that my attacks on CBC have served their purpose and that it is time to move on. During the meeting I was able to air my frustrations with CBC. Howard and I don't see eye to eye on every issue but it doesn't matter. He's got a good heart and he truly seems to care. I don't care what church you're in, it's hard to find a person like that.

We talked about tithe, Forward Together, CCLI, and "the affair". Through it all he was reasonable and understanding. I like that in a man.  

In the end, did Howard change my opinion about CBC? Am I now a CBC'er believer?

No, but I think he was able to help me move on. I'm not saying I"ll never write another post about CBC, but I am saying that it helps to know at least one pastor cares.

There's a time to judge intention and there's a time to judge action… Howard's intentions are pure. I can only hope that the rest of the elders listen to him.

Howard Rachinski, you have made a friend out of me.

-Johnpaul

PS. I like the purple suit.

Here is interesting article that was recently forwarded to me from Pete McClain. I thought I'd share it.  

 Belief in the Best Sellers
— Martin E. Marty - May 1, 2006

Don't believe the celebrators of "the good old days" in American religion, when "everyone was religious and religion was all over the public place."  And don't believe the denigrators of "the good new days" who sulk because government will not do the church's work by allowing and providing for the worship of God(s?) in public schools and in courts.  There is now more evidence of religion in public media and non-governmental institutions than before.  And in the "free market" of ideas and markets, religion never had it so good in recent or semi-distant memory.  I thought of that when scanning the New York Times Book Review best-sellers list.

First, fiction.  I am happy to see that the author of The Da Vinci Code in court had to call his book fiction.  It's delusional to look for and claim to find factual or evidential bases for much of anything in it.  Equally hokey — but, remember it is fiction — is Steve Berry's The Templar Legacy, which shares the ethos of the "Da Vinci" enterprise.  So does Javier Sierra's The Secret Supper.  "Clues in 'The Last Super' reveal Da Vinci's heretical beliefs."  Authors and publics can't get over "the Holy Grail," though it is pretty much beside the point.

As for nonfiction, two of five on the list are worth taking seriously.  Kevin Phillips, in American Theocracy, worries about the takeover of the religious right, fearing it might become a privileged, dominant force.  I also take very seriously a refreshing book by Newsweek editor Jon Meacham: American Gospel probes the faith of American founders and their legacy.  Next comes a silly one, Michael Baigent's The Jesus Papers.  "One of the authors of Holy Blood, Holy Grail argues that Jesus survived his crucifixion."  (And the moon is made of greenish cheese — a proposition on the same level of "nonfiction" as the Baigent book.)  Add to these: The Gospel of Judas, about which too much has already been said, and Bart D. Ehrman's Misquoting Jesus, whose author has discovered and is informing us that we do not have original gospel documents and that those we have are of diverse quality and display variants — something even fundamentalists freely learn from the footnotes in the Greek New Testaments that they used in seminary.

Still, nine of thirty best sellers in the sales by 4,000 godless bookstores and wholesalers are religious in content, as bannered for everyone to see.  Don't look for much of anything canonical or orthodox in those that relate to biblical life and times.  G. K. Chesterton once said that when people stop believing in God, the problem is not that they do not believe in anything but that they believe in everything and anything.  That's made clear with "everything and anything" showing up as religious on dust jackets, covers, title pages, and in texts.

More and more we read editorials or letters in humanist magazines and elsewhere: Can secularism survive?  It'll do all right in the marketplace and the marketplace of ideas; one need not worry about that. 

Were I a worrier, I'd be more inclined to worry about those who are taken in by everything and anything that is sensationally marketed as potentially replacing classic religious texts or more cautious and profound new ones.  Still, the books are likely to sort themselves out, while they gain a huge hearing right now.