Men and Church
Posted on June 10th, 2006 by catalyst into the Uncategorized categoryThere is an interesting article in the Washington Post today that asks why men don't go to church: Empty Pews: Where Did all the Men Go?
The article attempts to find out why Church is comprised predominantly of women. According to the article, the main factor is that in Christianity God is a He, and men don't want to spend their Sunday mornings professing their love for another man. The article quotes a book that discusses the difference between the Muslim Faith and Christianity and their approach to church.
"Every Muslim man knows that he is locked in a great battle between good and evil, and although that was a prevalent teaching in Christianity until about 100 years ago, today it's primarily about having a relationship with a man who loves you unconditionally," Murrow said.
"And if that's the punch line of the Gospel, then you're going to have a lot more women than men taking you up on your offer because women are interested in a personal relationship with a man who loves you unconditionally. Men, generally, are not."
I find this reasoning a bit of an oversimplification, but it may be the basis for why men are resistant to attend church. I tend to think church is geared more toward women and their needs. The music, the emphasis on relatonship, the overly long sermons, Church is just not a very masculine experience.
So let me throw this out to the guys. What could church do to make it more appealing to you?
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June 10th, 2006 at 9:22 am
The article is hogwash. For me, I don’t see the point to overcomplicate the issue.
I don’t go to church any more because when I rejected all the “traditions” of chrisitianity and “started over” by listening to the holy spirit within me and reading my bible… I did not (and still don’t) feel that attending some institution on Sunday Morning (and possibly again in Evening) is any relation to what makes me a righteous person or a follower of my saviour.
Besides, church is too expensive.
Perhaps some day the holy spirit will intuite to my spirit that I should once again attend the institutional “church”, but until then… Sunday is just another day that God has given to me as a gift.
June 10th, 2006 at 9:25 am
But that’s just me.. someone who is already a “christian”.
For non-christian men who no longer go to church.. it’s likely because the religious “fear” that has driven men to church for generations is no longer a big deal. In this day and age, fewer and fewer men are believing in the existance of anything more then themselves.
Thus, the “fear of going to hell” is no longer a reality.. so why bother going to church, since that was pretty much the only reason. (Fear of the unknown.)
For women, I’m sure you’ll all agree that they are weaker in thought and more likely to fall for the “if you don’t go to church you’re going to hell!” ploy.
haha. Just kidding about that last part. Unless you’re a guy.
:)
June 10th, 2006 at 9:35 am
Give me my tithe back.
Use real wine - large glasses - and free refills.
Serve a real meal instead of crackers or 1/2″ cube of Wonderbread.
Rip out the pews, and platform/stage, and replace with round tables and chairs.
Fire the pastor or tell him/her to get a real job like everyone else.
Oh, and valet parking.
(Nice to be home - it was about 13 hours door to door last night … the NW is nice, but too many liberals (and too much rain)).
June 10th, 2006 at 11:42 am
Don’t forget TV with my own personal remote so that I can change the channel when I disagree with what is being preached. (Maybe CBC is on to something with the plasmas.)
Food - Starbucks is a nice start, but church would be awsome over a big plate of nachos.
But, I think the big thing is, I want something to do that is important. Listening to a guy motivate me on what he thinks is important is OK occassionally, but I need something to do. Men are doers. Ask them about themselves and they will tell you what they do. Women (I think) define themselves around relationships. Hence, the church experience fits for them.
June 10th, 2006 at 12:50 pm
Maybe if the church would make it clear that they expect men to follow the bible’s teachings a be LEADERS at home and in the church the men might feel they had a role to play in church (and home) life. The modern American church has turned men into a bunch of metrosexual sissies that are more concerned with their wardrobe than the spiritual welfare of their families. The church needs to require less of women (who do most of the “volunteer” work in the church) and require the men to take their place instead of sitting on their butts. (just one woman’s opinion, but a strongly felt one!)
June 10th, 2006 at 1:07 pm
I asked my wife what she thought.
She said, “Women are better.”
From my experience, she is probably right.
June 10th, 2006 at 1:57 pm
Is the chainsaw considered an instrument?
June 11th, 2006 at 7:50 am
Shouldn’t women who are going to church without their husbands instead stay home and submit to them? (Ephesians 5:22)
Is it possible that part of the problem is, that by leaving their husbands home while they go to church, wives are showing disrespect to their husbands and are failing to honor them as head of the household (Ephesians 5:23), who being the dominant types that they are, dig in their heels all the more?
Why not instead let the believing wife stay home with her husband and love him and respect him and let going to church be his idea / leading?
I’m half kidding here - but - not about the disrespect/dishonor observation; women sew resentment in bushels through acts of disrespect / dishonor. Love (and respect / honor) always leads the way - far better to lead than push.
June 11th, 2006 at 8:17 am
I had an interesting Sunday. After attending my regular service, I decided to drop by a seeker church that meets at a local high school. There were nearly as many men as women. So I set about observing why.
Here are my observations:
1. No singing
2. Pastor discussed relavent modern topics
3. No altar call
4. Auditorium seating was more comfortable than pews
5. Dress was very casual
6. Bring your hotrod or classic car to church next Sunday
7. Coffee bar
8. Offering was taken quickly (if you attend, please give, iff a visitor, keep your money)
9. Pens and programs given out at the door - pen collected as I left
10. Got to watch part of a TV program
11. Service start to finish was less than 1 hour
For those out there wh want to rip on a seeker church:
The gospel was clearly preached. There was no way that anyone could have left without making a decision one way or the other. Nothing was sugar coated, just presented in a way without churchy pretense and relavent to people today.
I changed my mind about a number of things today.
June 11th, 2006 at 8:46 am
Well now, is’t THAT special?
June 11th, 2006 at 9:55 am
Rip.
About so-called ’seeker churches’ - I’ve always wondered about churches, who’s weekly message is essentially the same, week after week - the message of the cross/salvation; for those who regularly attend such a church, when/how do they get teaching on the rest of scripture IF the basic message is always the same?
When I went to my last IC several years ago, I remember trying to talk to the pastor and get him to open up in thoughtful conversation about “growth” - specifically, the notion that sometimes members outgrow the pot they were planted in and the need for transplanting to a bigger pot … after all, we are encouraged to move from milk to meat to promote growth …
Where the pastors message is always the basic salvation message, and the pastor presumes to preach to the unsaved in attendence, when do the elder / long-term members get to hear something different? Seems to me like the basic premise of the ’seeker church’ is flawed / short-sighted.
I sure wouldn’t sit down to watch the same TV show (repeat) over and over and over again, any more than I would go to listen to a preacher deliver the same message week after week.
Anyway, my former pastor would not let his guard down long enough to answer my questions about growth within the confines of the IC …
It was a liturgical / traditional church I attended where the weekly message was tied to the annual “church calendar” … you know - the 4-5 Sundays before Advent, Lent, the Umpteenth Sunday after Pentecost … as far as I know, most protestant churches follow the ‘advent church calendar’, and so no matter which protestant church you go to, on any given Sunday, you would hear the same scriptures read - and a message founded on the scripture(s) for the week.
After going there most of my life before I had a significant encounter with the Holy Spirit, it was quickly apparent that the IC teaches from a small subset of scripture / avoids a lot of scripture that contradicts the doctrine of that particular denomination.
So IC’s, like seeker-churches, would seem to be places that a believer would eventually outgrow, and move on to some place where there was ‘fresh meat’. That is IF the people there are growing AND have the desire to satisfy their hunger … Proverbs 26:15
June 11th, 2006 at 11:34 am
Ok, so let’s discuss this seeker church then.
This church has multiple campuses and “teaching pastors” rotate through the various locations. The total congregation is approximately 9000 according to their website.
There were a couple very unique aspects of this church. The auditorium in the school only seated 500. The parking lot is packed and I can’t figure out where the rest of the people are. Evidently they had what they called the “video community” down in the gym. They were simulcasting the message to them. These were apparently older regular members who had agreed to meet there (another 500) so that there would always be seats available for the newcomer or volunteer. This was very interesting to me.
There was no praise and worship. This service was non-participation. Music played was secular that matched the theme of the teaching. There was Christian p&w playing over the sound system when I arrived.
The sermon used a lot of scripture, but no references. I only recognized it as such because of my background. I am sure that this is what the early church was like since only references to the OT could be made. Even then, these references would have been meaningless to the gentiles.
From my understanding, they do discuss a variety of topics, but only in relation to how they are relevant to live life today. Next week, for instance, they are preaching on true manliness for Father’s Day. Completed with a bring your own classic car show. I have no doubt that this will draw new guys to all of the campuses who have never been. But, they have discussed issues of marriage, family, etc.
Ok, the thought about going deeper. This is where it gets interesting. Their main campus seats approx 2000. The only Wednesday night service is held at this location. It is more traditional with p&w and scripture teaching. They also have numerous small home churches in the area during the week. Youth group for all campuses is held on Mondays at the same place.
The offering was very interesting. At the end of the service, the pastor said that if you regularly attended the church, it was your responsibility to give. If you did not attend regularly, they asked you not to give. That’s all they said. No word about the tithe. Very interesting. They sang a secular song I’ve never heard, the pastor quickly challenged the people to act on what they heard, and the people got up and left.
There was no prayer to close the service, no altar call, people just got up and left. Very weird from my IC perspective. What I found very interesting was the number of people talking about the message on the way out.
One last thought. Their statement of faith crackes me up in it’s simplicity. They call it L3: LOVE God and others… LOCK arms… LIVE openhandedly. This is way too simple, ours is something like 15 points and has at least 100 scriptures referenced. Nothing so simple could be of God….or could it?
June 11th, 2006 at 12:01 pm
Depending on the emphasis, that could be interpreted in several ways …
Best man’s service I ever attended (back in the 90’s, in Washington) opened with the song: There’s a dead skunk in the middle of the road …
That, AW, is foundational in my personal belief system - you’ve heard me harp on Church not being a building or institutional but something more organic that is integrated in our daily lives and not a time-slot in our day-timers on Sunday morning.
Anyway - as for simple - at the beginning of Genesis we see God, man and woman, walking and talking together in the garden of God’s abundant provision - and at the end of Revelation we see a similar garden scene with fruit producing trees growing along the river - with men and women once again walking and talking with God, face to face.
If the beginning and end of what God made, is us, in a garden with Him - so simple - so organic - how is it we’re always trying to build green-houses, fertilizer farms, hydroponic gardening methods, etc., to ‘improve’ upon what God does beautifully and naturally?
The point of God as gardener and us as His planting is really driven home here as I rehab this house and yard … we bought a bunch of green-house grown plants and transplanted them outside - where several of them have gone into shock and died. At least the lesson I am learning is that plants grown in the wild / outdoors are healthier and better adapted than climate-controlled plants - which suggests to me that man’s ways (churchy churches) aren’t as effective as God’s ways (wilderness grown).
I hope it’s that simple, AW.
June 11th, 2006 at 4:56 pm
It is so hard to let my words drip with sarcasm on a blog.
Simple is good. I always question a message where the root of a Greek word has to be used to understand what a preacher is trying to say.
This morning was very beautiful in that Christ was presented and people were asked to make a decision about what to do with it.
I like your garden illustration. I’m wild grown, and lead a home fellowship of green housers. It cracks me up that they are amazed at some of the experiences I have had.
“You mean there were really hailstones like golf balls?”
“I can’t imagine not having someone to water me.”
“A dog did what to you?”
I speak here as a house plant.
Hence my blog name. I am often misunderstood and I have battled for every inch of faith I own. But I am better for it.
June 12th, 2006 at 9:09 am
Put an end to preaching by cheesy, whiny, quiche eating, preening Nancy Boys … right now! It freaks us meat eaters out. Get it? Hire a pastor who throws off a good John Wayne vibe instead of that Boy George feeling. Know what I mean? And cheer on “Pastor Wayne” to serve up the solid meat of the scripture ? the stuff that prods the congregation to biblical maturity rather than prolonging their infancy.
Ditto regarding the worship/music leader. And make sure your new testosterone laden songmeister is outfitted with weighty worship music instead of the saccharine-laced slush we have had to sing ad nauseam et infinitum for the last, oh, 100 years. That’s a pretty simple can-do ? don’t you think?
Enough with the Precious Moments prints and figurines — okay? And the cappucino machines are cool but why not a sports bar? How about decking out the sanctuary with serious transcendent art work that stops us in our tracks, rather than ubiquitous prints of fat baby angels who look like they’ve got a good buzz going from too much Mountain Dew and children’s aspirin?
Lose the Church’s “I’m in therapy for ever” feel. Yes, yes, we’re all a work in progress but the co-dependant, extended womb the Church has wrongfully created has allowed congregants to not get a life because of some difficult doo-doo in their lives. Sure life’s hard, little Sally, and the sooner, we celebrate the struggle the quicker we will draw men back to our houses of worship.
If the Church wants to recover its losses, we’ve got to draw the knuckle draggers back to church. Masculine men are pretty easy. Toss in reason, competition, initiation, struggle, fun and a problem to spiritually throttle, and we’ll be there like stink on a monkey. Blow off, suppress, and spiritually emasculate the environment of these holy testicular necessities and your church, as far as men go, will be more empty than an Oktoberfest in Hialeah.
June 12th, 2006 at 1:29 pm
Hoooooo Aaaaaaaaaaah!!!
I like the way you said it. My sentiments exactly. I was just afraid to say it because of what my wife would say. Submission and all you know.
June 12th, 2006 at 2:08 pm
I read your blog to my wife. She laughed hard, and then agreed.
June 12th, 2006 at 2:13 pm
the very fact we are discussing this makes us men wish that other men were in the pews with us…
is that o.k?
Oh no.
I kinda enjoy smelling like 15 different types of Macy’s perfumes when I leave the church for the local deli.
interesting topic… way to deep for me today
June 12th, 2006 at 3:11 pm
What I love is when the pastor screws up and says something embarrassing to his wife. Instead of cowering, why can’t we just laugh and enjoy our differences?
June 12th, 2006 at 6:16 pm
Instead of using kids to light candles before the service, trot out Larry the Cable Guy and give him a flame thrower …
June 12th, 2006 at 7:51 pm
Can we drop the cutesy drama-to-get-you-to-do-whatever-the flavor-of-the-month-is announcements. If you want me to volunteer for ushering, just ask. Don’t perform some lame skit that makes me only want to clap because it is over.
And yes, chain saws are an instrument if they are properly tuned whereas flamethrowers, even untuned are acceptable in a pinch.
June 13th, 2006 at 11:58 pm
maybe Dog the Bounty Hunter could preach to help increase the manly anointing.
June 14th, 2006 at 2:44 am
I love Dog. Best Christian I know.
Says what he means
Prays for only what he needs
Fights evil
Helps people who have lost their way
Know he’s on a mission from God