Judah Smith speaking at Generation Unleashed
Posted on July 14th, 2006 by catalyst into the Uncategorized categoryFor your viewing pleasure:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NwH_et2g8o
Is there anything more uncomfortably funny, than a youth pastor talking about having sex with his wife?
Permalink |
| 
July 14th, 2006 at 1:48 pm
That’s fantastic.
Judah’s is having more fun than you are…
and he’s pissed about it.
I tend to think if you really want to sell people on the fact that you are indeed having sex and that the sex you are having is good, you might want to act a little bit happier. Sounds suspicious.
July 14th, 2006 at 2:55 pm
That was disgusting.
He looks pretty close to when he was a baby… his hair stood straight up back then too… except then it naturally stood on end.
What persona is he trying to copy with the twang and the yelling? Kinda like Osteen? ewww myyyyyyyy
July 14th, 2006 at 3:22 pm
Lets give the kid a break, it wasn’t all that bad! I was at their wedding and it was pretty clear that the two of them were rather anxious to “live as a married couple” - it was actually kind of refreshing. Personally, I’d rather not hear about another married couple’s sex life preached from the pulpit, but I believe he has the best intentions. Young people do need to feel comfortable about sex, although, I can’t really recall a single teenager or “young adult” I’ve ever known who wasn’t fully aware and more than comfortable with the idea of having sex! That’s not usually the problem.
I’m more so embarassed for Chelsea! Pastors (is Judah a pastor?) do have a tendency to throw in little stories about their own kids/spouses, sometimes to the extreme embarassment of the family. I was victim to this many times growing up!
July 14th, 2006 at 3:40 pm
How rude to stand in front of a crowd of single young people and shout emphatically, multiple times, that “I’m having more fun that you are” because “I’m married and have a baby,” and because “I have sex all the time.” Doesn’t exactly help his listeners learn to enjoy their single-hood, to make the most of the time in their lives when they can, as Paul says, focus solely on the Lord. Who cares how often he (or anyone) has sex? I don’t know him, but I’m glad he’s happy in his life. However, is the point of preaching to drive home how happy you are because of your life circumstances? I think not.
Oh, I’m pretty sure this kid was raised in Oregon & Washington, so, yeah, his affectation and accent are quite ridiculous.
July 14th, 2006 at 3:56 pm
When did Judah turn black? And I’d like to directly challenge him. He is not, in fact, having more fun than I am.
July 14th, 2006 at 3:59 pm
PS, did you hear those church girls scream? There’s some good hunting there. Thanks for the video, the next time someone from CBC tries to tell me that GU is not all about hype, I’ll just link them to that.
July 14th, 2006 at 4:02 pm
I was at his wedding also…
They showed a video and kept zooming in on a statue of a lion and talking about the “Lion of Judah”. Now it makes me wonder if he jumps in that old TCHS Lion’s costume before he has sex. Then he could really say he is having more fun than the rest of us.
Actually, I don’t really know Judah, but his wife is really nice. For her sake I hope they are having a lot of sex (I’m sure she loves this being discussed on a blog).
July 14th, 2006 at 4:10 pm
Judah dressing up as the school mascot and jumpin’ in the sack… ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! I’m going to need therapy. What was it they said during their (apple cider) toast… “let the lions roar”???
To the Mrs. - you go, girl, and I’ll stop commenting on this for your sake.
July 14th, 2006 at 4:25 pm
I personally liked this clip better.
He complains about the secular notion of sex being perverted, but then admits that’s what he was thinking about during his wedding ceremony. I don’t think it does much for his credibility to lecture on the depraved worldly view of sex, and the fake southern drawl doesn’t help either. I will give him bonus points for the reference to the Discovery channel song…
I don’t feel embarassed for Chelsea at all. She chose to marry into church “royalty”, so a little embarassment comes with the territory. She can drown her sorrows in her husband’s book royalty checks.
July 14th, 2006 at 4:47 pm
I wonder how many people mistake him for Clay Aiken?
July 14th, 2006 at 5:55 pm
Wow, Judah’s mom still dresses him and does his hair. Does anyone else remember when all that kid ever wore were little navy short suits and white tights (think Little Lord Fauntleroy)?
And RP, he’s more Adam Curry than Clay Aiken.
July 15th, 2006 at 12:31 am
Heh. Great link, Fezzik.
There’s actually a couple other GU hype videos floating around youtube, I’ll try to post them later.
I think you guys covered all the relevant points, which is why I so love this blog. And I hate to rip on a guys style, but seriously, doesn’t he look like he’s trying just a little too hard?
July 15th, 2006 at 1:25 am
That’s pretty funny. I couldn’t stand watching that video… his “accent” and how he spoke drove me mad.
Who cares if he has a lot of sex, everyone has a lot of sex. What’s he trying to say? I DONT EVEN THINK HE HAD A POINT.. or it took him a long time to get to it.
July 15th, 2006 at 5:15 am
Was he at least balanced in his talk about sex? I mean, since he talked about sex with his wife, did he talk about all that wacking off he did before he got married?
July 15th, 2006 at 7:07 am
Isn’t GU2006 (by the way, how appropriate that GU stands for something in the medical field) mostly junior high and high school students? Kids who should be hearing about staying pure til marriage, not about how much fun sex is and on and on??? How inappropriate for Judah to prance on the stage like he did and exploit his sex life and “na na na, I can do it” to the kids.
July 15th, 2006 at 8:13 am
…he’s more Adam Curry than Clay Aiken.
That’s Clay Aiken. Maybe we could start some sort of American Idol-style competition among youth pastors. Oh the irony.
July 15th, 2006 at 12:09 pm
Why is the first choice for a ‘youth minister’ a 20-something seminary grad? Seems like a mature adult is the better choice IF it’s maturity and common sense that parents want modeled for their kids.
But where youth groups have become more entertainment oriented than Christ centered, the choice of a young/green youth minister would seem to have more to do with someone who can play with the kids and keep up with them.
I watched both Jonah’s videos on YouTube … I think he may have watched too much of Jesse Duplantis … regardless, the kid is a wingnut. And I disagree with his assertion that “the church needs to talk about sex” … the parents need to talk about it - but it’s not a church responsibility.
Are there any Biblical examples of the open and frank discussion about sex among believers/the church? Not that I know of. Song of Solomon is essentially a love letter between bride and groom - the picture it paints for me is of private love … then there’s 1 Cor. 5 - the man who has his father’s wife (stepmom) - obviously it was public knowledge in the church at Corinth and Paul treated it with contempt for the sinful public spectacle that it was - “put the man out” he said. In fact, 1 Cor. 5:6 says “Your glorying is NOT good …”
What I heard from Jonah on the video sounds like ‘glorying’ to me, albeit of himself - such should be held in confidence (read: sacred TRUST) between man and wife.
Anybody know if the praise band led the kids in the chorus:
I wanna see, I wanna see, I wanna see Jonah lifted high …
Yuck!
July 15th, 2006 at 12:16 pm
It’s J-U-D-A-H, not Jonah.
July 15th, 2006 at 12:36 pm
What makes you think I erred? Jonah was swallowed by a whale, and this guy has been swallowed by his own delusions and BS.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:29 pm
Good stuff, John 444.
I’m with you.
July 15th, 2006 at 2:43 pm
Thanks FFTM.
When I was a teen, our youth minister lasted for about 2 years before he bailed on us for his own church. I was one of those “always at church” kids - volunteering, hanging out at the youth ministers office - I gave him guitar lessons. So it really hurt when he bailed out.
The senior pastor, who had kids my age and older in high school and college, took over. For a main-line denom. church pastor, he was an incredible man - who preached Jesus from the pulpit - who was genuine and visibly moved by love. He was like a 2nd dad to me, and when I got in trouble, he didn’t hesitate to really let me have it. I respected him, and loved him dearly - because he was in it for the long haul, where as the mid-20’s youth minister was using the post as a stepping stone to his own church - a kind of internship.
Biblically, there shold be an eldership (emphasize: ELDER) where those who are older and more mature in the faith guide / nurture the infants in Christ. How can a young person, with no practical experience raising teenagers, pastor them, especially where the matters of life are concerned?
…
I’m left with a potentially stupid question for the youth and young singles (teens and 20’s) … is there a tendency to simply dismiss the older generation(s)? And, is there a tendency to put more stock in what people like J-O-N-A-H (Judah) have to say, than someone older?
Guess I’m blown away that someone like Jonah has the ear of youth, or is considered a spokesperson for a generation.
July 15th, 2006 at 5:18 pm
To be fair we only heard 10 mins of what I sure was a service that went on all night.
July 15th, 2006 at 6:20 pm
To be fair we only heard 10 mins of what I sure was a service that went on all night.
July 15th, 2006 at 7:51 pm
I have to say I immediately thought of Clay Aiken when I watched Jehoshaphat’s tangential rant.
July 15th, 2006 at 8:17 pm
It’s J-O-N-A-H, not Jehoshaphat.
July 15th, 2006 at 9:31 pm
Maybe knowing Judah and Chelsea actually makes it easier to be objective about this. I agree with Judah - there is definitely a negative attitude in the world and in the church about sex within marriage. The world sees it as non-existent, and the church sees it as a necessary evil once you get married that you’re only supposed to do to please your husband and have children, but not actually enjoy. Doesn’t anyone else think that this is an cultural epidemic? Are you all so caught up in being witty and sarcastic that you missed out on the context of the message? Yes, it was mildly uncomfortable to listen to, especially since I always think of Judah as still being in the sixth grade. I wouldn’t think it would be so hard for some of you to look past one’s appearance and speech to hear what they’re actually saying. And for the record, I think he sounds just like his dad.
July 15th, 2006 at 11:22 pm
But Hannah, he had a southern accent! By my calculations he’s spent exactly…uh, zero years in the south! He’s most certainly not the Judah (aka Jonah/Jehoshaphat) you knew in 6th grade any more; he’s cut from the same fabric as an Osteen or a Damazio!
P.S. I have a love affair with exclamation points!
July 16th, 2006 at 7:01 am
Cultural epidemic is a misdiagnosis. What you’re seeing is the long-term effect of state-church influence from the Catholic church tradition and the Victorian era where sex is concerned. Sex isn’t the only thing that religion has branded as dirty; how about alcohol, slang, rock music, gambling, smoking, and countless old traditions, hymns and religious relics that have been rendered “holy” (sacred) by churchians? They all come with a hands off or bad label.
For example, my nephews are being raised in a very religious way. They have been taught that poop is bad; in fact, there isn’t a single word you can call it that isn’t bad. So imagine the trauma they go through when they’re helping me with a project, something goes wrong, and uncle Jack let’s out an emphatic “shit!” They told their parents. Their parents convened a family meeting to confront me. I listen politely to them for half an hour, and finally asked them “well, what do you call that smelly brown stuff that comes out of your butt” - and they gasped at “butt”. Heck, the word “shit” is in the Bible, but our religiousness has prompted a ’sanitization’ of scripture - rendering the original greek word for shit as “refuse”, “trash”, or “rubbish” - only the KJV was honest in rendering the word “dung”. (Luke 13:8, Phil. 3:8). Maybe the Bible is bad, at least in the sense that we feel we need to clean up the language it uses?
What the church really needs to examine is their adherence to tradition, the notions of holiness/sacredness, in light of the purifying work of Christ’s blood. What does it mean when scripture says Christ sanctified and cleansed us? What does “Christ destroyed the works of the devil” mean? Could we be wrong in many/most of our judgments of things as good and evil? Don’t forget, it was the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil that we ate that completely hosed us up; what makes any one of us think we have the capacity to rightly judge good and evil? It is written:
But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. (Isaiah 64:6 Webster)
What that scripture says to me is, even when we think we are doing good and righteous things, they’re filthy. We can’t do good / righteous on our own, nor can we rightly discern evil/bad when we label sex within the context of marriage as anything less than beautiful.
It isn’t that Judah is wrong, it’s that he’s barking up the wrong tree. Wanna kill a weed, gotta kill the root.
Specifically, instead of preaching about sex, he ought to be examining the ROOT of our understanding of good and evil, which is tapped into dead religion and baseless tradition.
Perhaps the deadliest notion we can have, in terms of living and enjoying the life that the Father has given us in Christ, is the notion that we still have work to do to be clean/pure/holy beyond the work that Christ did on our behalf. If all OUR righteous works are as filthy rags, then don’t we labor in vain to be clean/pure/holy, and wouldn’t it be better to simply rely on Christ to cleanse us? In my way of thinking, there’s a sense in which all our vain efforts to cleanse ourselves and refrain from doing the many things we think of as sinful, is rooted in a lack of trust in Christ. I’m not talking about a license to sin, rather, each of us seems to have a personal code of right and wrong, good and bad, that is extra-Biblical. Such makes a person rule-bound, and can make for a miserable existence.
In the freedom, then, with which Christ did make you free–stand ye, and be not held fast again by a yoke of servitude; (Galatians 5:1 YLT)
Have we become slaves to dead religious ideals? Is there life in refraining from doing “bad things”? Do we get brownie-points in heaven?
July 16th, 2006 at 2:20 pm
Then maybe I didn’t make myself clear, seeing as my comment was only one small paragraph and contained no scriptural references. I do think there is an attack on marriage from Satan, the father of lies, that has affected the world’s view of marriage. Not just on sexual intimacy, but on all aspects of marriage, and that the church’s response has been pretty much nil. The youth of today do not want to hear someone say to them, “go ask your parents about sex” because they think their parents are retarded. The youth of today would like to hear something real. Something honest, something personal. From someone close enough to their age that they feel they can identify, yet someone old enough that they respect. (p.s. I’m not saying all youth pastors need to be between the ages of 24-32 so don’t freak out.)
My whole point of what I was saying previously, and I can’t believe I have to say this to a bunch of grown-ups, is that it is not our place to judge someone even if they are wearing different clothes or they talk a little funny. It is definitely not WJWD. Exclamation point, exclamation point, exclamation point.
July 16th, 2006 at 4:33 pm
Hannah, the issue of adult credibility is of our own making, so I don’t fault any young person for holding the older generation(s) in suspicion. As a generation, we haven’t exactly been good stewards of anything but our own portfolios.
However, as a person of years, I am alarmed at what Jonah is peddling as wisdom. Twenty years from now, he will look back on that message and cringe at his misplaced zeal.
July 16th, 2006 at 5:48 pm
Ew. That was pretty icky.
July 17th, 2006 at 12:34 pm
Sounds like he’s doin’ the same drugs Rush Limbaugh got busted for… In this case, I would say he is having more fun than me/us/them…
Nothing like wild sex when you got all those pills and all those teen girls yellin at ya!
P.S. I like the accent. Brings out his country goodness!
I bet he screams “Hell Yeah!” with that same accent when his lovely well mannered wife is blowing his mind…
July 18th, 2006 at 1:10 am
If he really is having as much fun as he says he is, he should provide video proof. If his wife isn’t speaking in tongues by the 40th minute, he should be stoned for being a false witness.
July 19th, 2006 at 2:21 pm
Judah Smith is the most amazing youth pastor that I know of. I have never met him, but I have listened to many of his messages online from Generation church. If you listen to the whole message, what he is saying is that for too long the church has made sex some weird, foreign, even bad thing. Judah wants to destroy the lie and shed light on the fact that he as a married person enjoys his life. He is saying that Christians do have wonderful sex lives, but that the must be found in marriage and that is the only way to enjoy an intimate relationship to the fullest. He was not angry, if anything (having listened to many of his messages) he was passionate about what he was saying. You all need to go to generationchurch.org. listen to the audio casts. They will challenge everything you think.
July 19th, 2006 at 4:00 pm
I just want to thank you for sending me to generationchurch.org. I was going to listen to a whole sermon by Judah, in order to give him a fair chance, but then I saw that his wife Chelsea has a sermon titled, “Bob, The Builder”. I started chuckling immediately.
I was pretty good friends with his wife in High School, so this is definitely going to be a blog post. I’m thinking another running diary.
July 19th, 2006 at 4:03 pm
I’m totally blown away GenChurch.
NOT
Everyone knows sex is fun.
The church just realized this after 2000 years and now I’m supposed to care if some dude with a good accent tells me he’s having more fun than I because he’s married.
Who cares.
This is just another guy trying to use the Bible to write out the NEW Lifestyle we are supposed to want to achieve.
Judah is the reason that people of alternative lifestyles are oppressed in this country.
I he came out and said “Look marriage is great for me, But find what you like and worship God with that realationship” that would be different.
In this case as in most, the Christian is the DIVIDER not the GLUE.
July 20th, 2006 at 5:01 am
Many of you are ignorant. So maybe the titles of these sermons are silly. That’s the point. I remember them more because of how I can relate the message to the simple title. Everyone knows sex is fun… but fun at what cost. How fetched is it to imagine that everything that would deteriorate you as a person would be made to seem fun? Some of you sound l like you might know something about God or faith, but you lack experience. You might understand that there is a spiritual battle for our lives, and the best tactic to kill us physically and spiritually is to desensitize us to what is not profitable, but rather harmful. Look at the world you has “realized” how much fun sex is… it doesn’t look like they are any more better off. All can seem to do is sit around and complain about people who offer something better. Look at the relationships in hollywood… they suck. Judah is not the reason many “alternative” lifestyles are oppressed in this country. They are oppressed because they are captive to their own perverted desires. In the end, it doesn’t matter what any of us think, but what God thinks. Pretty soon you are going to see God moving throughout the world. There are going to be major earthquakes, volcanic activity, and catastrophic hurricanes. This is because we as people have tried to kill God, and follow our own lusts. A hope many of you are found not straddling a fence, but standing on the side of God. Let me make this known, i am not affiliated with Generation Church, but i support them. They are some of the only people who are addressing issues and speaking and teaching better than anyone I have heard. Do listen to Bob, the Builder. Maybe you’ll learn something.
July 20th, 2006 at 5:19 am
Preaching against evil is SO old covenant. The new covenant is about knowing and preaching Christ and Him crucified.
Jonah’s preaching is old covenant / old wineskin. Gotta white wash them tombs - burnish them cups.
GC - if any preacher stands up there week after week, and preaches against sin, and the congregation strives to avoid sin, are they saved? If your answer is “no, only Jesus saves” - then why waste time preaching against sin (and other human stupidity) when the only message with power is Christ and Him crucified? When preaching Christ, where people get saved, why not let the Holy Spirit go about the ministry of renewing our minds, which will take care of any screwball attitude about sex?
Jonah preaches like a moron, and anyone who swallows Jonah’s crap is a moron too.
Pharisees: making sons of hell since 654 BC.
July 20th, 2006 at 5:45 am
Hey guys, I read all of the above comments and would like to make something known. I’m a 23 year old pastor from ON, Canada. I was 17 when I first heard Judah Smith preach at a youth conference at Toronto Airport Christian Fellowship (www.tacf.org). I was kinda struggling at the time in my relationship with God. Judah’s teaching (he was 21 at the time) rocked my world. I learned I could experience God and have an intimate relationship with Him alone, not only at church. Also I saw more miracles and healings than I’d ever seen before, witnesses the power of God not only mere words. My life has never been the same thanks to Judah’s obedience to God’s call on his life.
Personally I enjoyed the message (and I do agree if you comment you should listen to the entirety of it) “The Beautiful Affliction” and it gives me courage to wait for the wife God will give me, and not live by my flesh. One of the things that stirred my heart at the conference was Judah said, freshly married at the time, that he had never masterbated once in his life. Not once! and attributed that to the grace of God! Perhaps because of his courage to say that, I have not masterbated in the last 4-5 years of my single life, so it is possible to live a pure life with God… but I do look forward to marriage! haha. My prayer for all of you would be that you would look beyond exterior appearance, and hear the voice of Holy Spirit, calling us to see the cross, and a Daddy’s (God’s) love for us that calls us back to union with him, only at the expense of crucifying our sinful life with Jesus. I love you all, and pray that the glory of God would touch your lives. Go deeper in God guys. God is cheering for you to know Him, obey Him, and fulfill the call of God on your lives.
Peace…
July 20th, 2006 at 5:46 am
[…] hope many of you are found not straddling a fence, but standing on the side of God. Permalink | Add a comment? […]
July 20th, 2006 at 6:00 am
The Bible says I can’t masturbate?
July 20th, 2006 at 6:22 am
To An unscrupulous Man:
I thought your last post was a little… unbiblical. Yes, you can only come to the Father through Jesus Christ, but once you are saved does that mean you can lie, kill, cheat, committ adultery? I hope your response is no, otherwise you need open up the bible and read what the word of God says. Christ told his disciples “If you love me, then you will keep my commandments.” This is what He is still telling those that follow Him. Too often in the church we have become lax with being obedient. We have taken the message of grace and used it for our own lawlessness. The Holy Spirit does come to teach, correct, and counsel us, but we as the church, the body of Christ, are to allow the Holy Spirit to use our lives to help all believers from stumbling. Many people in the church are experiencing personal battles and no one will address them. I’m glad there is a new generation of individuals, such as Judah Smith, who are willing to be bold and address the real issues confronting our youth. And don’t forget that Paul was always writing the churches and telling them to stay away from sexual immorality and other forms of immorality. Jesus does save, and He asks us to live a life of obedience as He was obedient to God.
July 20th, 2006 at 6:38 am
The Bible says sexual immorality is sin, and no one who practices such things will inherit the kingdom of God. Masterbation is essentially sex with your hand. Jesus also said if you look at a woman and imagine having sex with her (my paraphrase) then to God, it’s the same because you’ve done it in your heart. And your heart, or spirit, is really the core of who you are and whatever is in your heart will eventually manifest in the natural. So yes, I believe sex with your hand is wrong, because what you are thinking of in your heart; the motivation of masterbation being lust and natural urge. Albeit, there are natural urges that have tempted me to masterbate. I suggest going for a walk and doing something physical to take your mind off of lustful things that will feed that temptation.
Furthermore, as a Christian who is madly in love with Jesus, I want to be as close to Him and as far away from the line of compromise as I can possibly be!!
Agreed?
July 20th, 2006 at 7:36 am
How so?
Why do preachers, who are taking money for preaching, despite Jesus command to “freely you have received, freely give”, therefore disobeying his commandment and demonstrating their lack of love for him, presume to tell their congregations not to sin?
It is far better to keep the message and your life Christ centered (i.e., in humility, broken-ness and the knowledge of ones own sin and need for grace), and let the Holy Spirit go about the work of cleaning up the sin mess, than be a hypocrite and preach an old-testament message of “avoid sin” while indulging in sin.
Please don’t tell me how wonderful these empire-building preachers are, bilking people and living in $425,000 houses. Clearly, the message they preach is: do as I say, not as I do.
C’mon man - don’t you think Jesus would ask them: why did you preach about sex and not about me?
July 20th, 2006 at 7:52 am
“I have not masterbated in the last 4-5 years of my single life, so it is possible to live a pure life with God…”
Josh, I am glad you have not masterbated in the last 4-5 years, but I think it is very safe to say that you have sinned in the last 4-5 years. A pure life with God is not and cannot be based on our own uprightness before Him.
“If righteousness comes by the law then Christ died in vain.”Gal 2:21
“If we say we have no sin, we are decieving ourselves and the truth is not in us.” 1John1:8
I do agree that Christians should be close to Jesus and far away from comprimise. But we are not called to champion our pureness or put a man, be it Judah Smith, his dad, Frank Demazio, John Wimber, John Calvin, Charles Spurgeon, John Wesley or Joel Osteen ( yikes can’t believe I put all those guys together)on a pedistal. May I never boast in anything, anything! but the in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ.
All, and I mean all of God’s children need God’s grace and mercy everyday! Let us honor God with all of our lives yet not promote ourselves but Him to whom belongs all the glory and honor and praise.
July 20th, 2006 at 9:01 am
Amen Jeremiah, I do believe the scriptures you quoted. Do you think I misrepresented them by what I said about not masterbating? Purity is a thing of the heart for sure, but also of the natural.
“Who may ascend the hill of the Lord? Or who may stand in His holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart…” psalm 24
Therefore an ongoing relationship with God will demand purity on all levels. Resistance of sin is only accomplished through God’s grace, as ALL things that require faith are only accomplished through God’s grace.
I don’t find a problem with people following a man, as he follows Christ. I for one love Judah Smith, don’t know him personally, but for sure I love the presence of God and truth I receive from his preachings. Someone said the reason movements become monuments is because the people exalt a man so high they don’t have to become like him (or her).
I believe this to be true. I have people following me and my lifestyle and convictions, and I want them to emulate me in character and conduct as I emulate Christ and my leaders, not simply praise me because of the holy life I live, but do as I do.
True I have sinned in the past 4years, what I’m saying is by learning to truly live in the presence of God and obey His voice out of love for him, our sinful nature, through the cross, can be crucified and overcome. Our nature can truly be changed from sin to Christ, as we walk out the process of salvation. And we can lead others to change as we change ourselves, and disciple others. I would encourage everyone (and I do a lot) to listen to Judah Smith’s messages, because he is a man, as far as I can hear and discern by the Holy Spirit, that is walking in integrity, honour, and purity. He is a man that God has put in my path to yield powerful change and increase in my relationship with God. And I thank and bless the Lord for his life, and the choices he’s made to represent truth the way he does.
I worship Jesus, not men, but I honour men of God who go after God, not perfectly, but with passion and courage. I believe Judah does, and for anyone that mocks him publically, I fear for them, and I would ask the question: how is your heart before your maker?
July 20th, 2006 at 9:05 am
And I would emplore you to ask God for the gift of discernment.
July 20th, 2006 at 12:14 pm
Clean hands? I don’t think he’ talking about masturbation here, Josh.
July 20th, 2006 at 12:28 pm
Josh,
I actually agree with a lot of what you say and further more I think it’s great that you love Jonah. I don’t love Jonah, but I do think he is a talented public speaker.
That being said, I can’t help but think you are a complete idiot if you actually believe that he never once masturbated in his life. And this brings us to the one big problem with youth pastors (pastors in general really, but especially youth pastors).
Pastors seem to think that it is OK for them to lie… if it sends a positive message to their youth. Whether it’s Doug Lasit lying about how far he went with his wife before they were married, or if it’s Jonah lying about never masturbating it’s all the same.
Why they think it’s ok to lie but wrong to masturbate will never make sense to me. But what do I know…
July 20th, 2006 at 12:34 pm
Correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t Pastor Slappy say he thought about sexing up the future wife DURING the wedding? Technically, he wasn’t married yet and was therefore lusting. Surely this means he will go to Hell for this transgression right?
July 20th, 2006 at 1:38 pm
Josh,
I think your honesty is great, as is your quest for purity.
That said, there are two types of guys in the world: Guys who masterbate. And Guys who lie about not masturbating.
July 20th, 2006 at 1:39 pm
there are two types of guys in the world: Guys who masterbate. And Guys who lie about not masturbating.
Uhhhh…..
July 21st, 2006 at 1:36 pm
Well something I know, that the desire of God is to be one with us, and to bring us back into complete union with Him. That’s where I wanna go, so I just wanna bless people as they pursue God. God through Judah Smith has touched my life in lasting ways, even His messages on sexual purity challenge me to live in a more intense way. I would encourage all to listen to some of his other messages… and to more importantly, live completely for our amazing saviour, Jesus, who will ultimately judge every one of us anyway. His opinion is the most important one of all.
And for ‘Reformed Pope’, if I could not masterbate for 4 - 5 years of my single life, I think it’s possible not to for 21. I believe Judah, and he is accountable for the words he says. At the very least, it encouraged and empowered me to understand I could live that way also.
Blessings…
July 21st, 2006 at 3:12 pm
What’s the matter with masturbating, anyway?
The puritan attitude towards masturbation seems to be a derivative of the ‘look at a woman with lust in your heart’ scripture … problem I have with that is, looking at a woman you don’t even know in a lustful way, isn’t bad because sex is bad, so much as it objectifies the woman - makes her less human - or that you’re imagining a ‘covenant act’ (intercourse) with someone you are not in covenant (marriage) with and therefore mentally fornicating / adultering. Begs the question - is it possible to masturbate for the simple pleasure of it without drooling over a porn mag or conjuring up a mental image of a woman?
Specifically, is it OK to masturbate if you are wholly focused on self-pleasure, and not objectifying someone else?
Or is there a scripture about masterbating?
July 21st, 2006 at 4:07 pm
There is nothing the matter with mastUrbating.
Sheesh!
July 21st, 2006 at 4:54 pm
OMG! Nothing worse than misspelling something I’ve been doing all my life.
Thanks for giving me a hand, pdxrn.
July 21st, 2006 at 5:59 pm
I heard some guy say that masturbation is sin because it is homosexual- man’s hand on man’s unit. So way more than 10% of the population is gay. No really, it is sex outside of marriage so I do believe it is wrong.
July 21st, 2006 at 6:51 pm
Where in Bible does it say that???
July 21st, 2006 at 8:38 pm
Googling “what does the bible say about masturbation” brings up a number of diverse articles. I read several of them - this one wasn’t religious like the others and makes some darn good points:
Masturbation: A Sin For Christians?
I’d never heard the “nothing beyond what is written” (1 Corinthians 4:6) argument before for disspelling religious rules. Since scripture says nothing about masturbation, but only about lusting in our hearts / minds, it would seem like masturbation without painting a lustful mental image is OK.
July 21st, 2006 at 10:21 pm
The only thing that comes closest to condemning hand-to-gland combat is Onan in Gen. 38, 6-10. This story has been misinterpreted to say a dude spilling his seed without fathering a child is sinning. The correct point is that Onan was duty bound to give his sister-in-law a baby but didn’t.
Likewise, Matthew 5:28 is taken out of context by the definition of “lust”. Lusting as temptation is not a sin. Think about it, Jesus himself was tempted for 40 days by Satan. When you see a hottie walking in front of you, you are supposed to think, “Nice ass”. But you are not supposed to attempt to cheat on your wife to find out how nice it really is. That is using the Free Will God granted us. Jesus taught us to meet temptation head on and defeat it.
In Moses’ day, all a man had to do was write a letter to divorce his wife. Women were given no protection under law. They were not allowed to even keep their inheritance as the dowry was passed onto her next husband or her son. If a man wanted another wife, it was as simple as a Dear Jane letter. That is why Jesus prefaced it with (verse 27), “You have heard that it was said, ‘Do not commit adultery.’” So you come home, give wifey a letter, kick her out, get a new wife and you didn’t commit adultery? Jesus says nope.
So Jesus was re-affirming the “Don’t commit adultery” rule, not redefining it.
July 22nd, 2006 at 6:43 am
Does bible temple / city bible now preach that wacking off is a sin? I’d love to know what Frank’s official opinion is on this subject.
So who wants to ask him? lol.
July 24th, 2006 at 8:49 am
Wow. This really sparked some serious debate. Interesting. I’m not very good at constructing amazing irrefutable arguements. So I’m not going to try. I did, however, find it slightly offensive that Judah felt the need to be so very emphatic and public about his sex life. Frankly, if my husband got on a stage and talked about me that way I can tell you he wouldn’t be having sex anymore for a good long while. On the other hand, I agree that many Christian young people are woefully uninformed about sex. I attend a Christian university and for the last three years I’ve lived in the dorms. I cannot even begin to number the girls I’ve encountered who know nothing about sex. Nothing. I met one girl who actually thought it was possible to get pregnant simply by being in a hot tub with a guy. And she was one of the more informed! It makes me sad. In this area, these otherwise perfectly normal and intelligent young women have been made lame and somewhat defenseless by their lack of knowledge. Not every young man that they meet will have their best interests in mind and I’ve known several who’ve found themselves somewhat unwittingly used and abused because of it. Judah may have gone about it the wrong way but something does need to be done.
July 24th, 2006 at 10:14 am
Yelling out, “I’m having more fun than you” and CLAIMING that you are having sex with your wife isn’t exactly what I would call Sexual Education.
However, it is entertaining and for that I commend Jonah.
July 24th, 2006 at 11:45 am
Sex?
July 24th, 2006 at 1:56 pm
awe yes… entertainment for the road trip to
July 24th, 2006 at 2:08 pm
Great points, JP.
July 28th, 2006 at 11:27 pm
Okay, so you guys decided to go all crazy about the way that he talked about sex. Personally, I think that he really made some good points and you guys just want to find something to bash others about. Most of you know that he was right, and that sex is so perverted nowadays. I’m sure in the back of your minds that you know that you don’t honestly feel good about yourselves. You put on a front and act like what you do is all good…but hey guess what! You know that you’re still miserable. Judah stood up there and yeah he was way vocal about his opinion but I’m sure he really connected with some people and their lives will be improved because of the way he speaks the truth of God’s Word. God made sex to be a beautiful thing but people ruin it and make it into something disgusting.
July 29th, 2006 at 7:47 am
I’m certain that championing a right attitude about sex will usher in the 2nd coming. Jesus would be right proud of Jonah.
If sex were the object of our attention/affections, in so far as the Church is concerned, how come we’re not singing:
Lord I lift my dick on high?
July 29th, 2006 at 9:15 am
I’ll be honest…I rushed into marriage so I could have sex and it never once lasted more than 5 minutes. It was all based on B.T. teachings. I’ve never had it good except when I’m by myself so I can’t relate but I knew Judah from since before he was born. I played with him almost everyday growing up. I remember him as a whiny little kid who talked too much and bugged the crap out of his sister Wendy. I was hoping that would change. Apparently not. Or maybe I’m just jealous…
July 29th, 2006 at 12:49 pm
Disgusted, I respect that you don’t agree with what you read here. However, your inaccurate speculations about how we “really” feel and/or think result in you having no credibility here, at least not with me, so, bye-bye.
July 30th, 2006 at 10:08 am
What I’ve noticed from observing the MFI world for the last 23 years is that sex has been put on this ridiculous pedestal where it has become something completely separate than the legitimate feelings two “christians” in love have for each other. Almost to the point where if you truly care about someone and are falling in love you just have to keep focusing on the fact that you’re not going to have sex with each other until you’re married. And then once you are married (prematurely most of the time, so that you can have this pedestal sex) there seems to be this fake glow about how incredible the relationship is because they waited for sex, when all of the while the time wasn’t taken to get to know the person they are married to on the levels deeper than sex, because yes, those levels do exist.
July 30th, 2006 at 7:49 pm
I googled Juda Smith, just to find some info on him. I recently heard him speak at a youth conference wihich I attended with my youth group of which I am a leader as as well as a parent of a teen. I was totally amazed by Judah (not Jonah) as was our entire youth group including leaders. But I tell you honestly what I am more totally amazed at is the fact that there are people claiming to be christian and talking about masturbating. Come on guys, PLEASE get real!!! And more amazing is the fact that you all sit here in your comfort zones and bash a child of God. As a parent, it infuriates me when my children treat each other with disrespect and inhumanity. I am just a simple human, so how do you think all powerful and knowing God reacts when he hears of you ripping His child Judah apart in the name of christianity? If you are trully God’s children, then grow up and act like it!
July 31st, 2006 at 5:02 am
Totally Amazed,
Thank you very much for your comment. A lot of people share your concerns over this blog.
July 31st, 2006 at 5:11 am
A couple of other unrelated thoughts on this particular post.
Before I posted this blog, I googled Judah Smith to see what was written about him. There wasn’t much. I was really curious whether our little blog would show up on the first page if people googled Judah. And sure enough, two days after I posted this You Tueb clip, our blog was the third choice on google’s front page.
I was thrilled.
I’va been googling pastors at City Bible since this blog started, and we’re killing them. If we’ve mentioned them on this blog and you google their name, our blog will likely be one of the first selections on google.
Heh. It makes me so happy.
July 31st, 2006 at 11:34 am
This is the new “body” of Christ.
Thanks you Lord for this new avenue to reach people with your love.
Amen
July 31st, 2006 at 11:34 am
Amazed, we’re open, we’re honest, we should be commended.
However, if you prefer to listen to Jonah lie about having never been “swallowed by the whale” that’s fine with me. I’ll take an honest comment about MASTURBATION over Jonah’s lies anyday.
By the way, we (those who blog here) are all products of the “hype and flash” youth group movements that you support. Take your children down whatever path you feel lead, but don’t be surprised when they end up writing a blog about you.
July 31st, 2006 at 12:30 pm
This blog has sunk to a new low. You guys ought to be ashamed of yourselves. Instead of criticizing Jonah, we should be following his example.
All married Christian bloggers should tell us how they are having more fun than the non-married, and with more details please. Frequency, duration, position, expletives uttered, and fruits of the union should be announced and recorded. Surely this will be pleasing to God and will be rewarded with his blessing, so long as we tithe.
Likewise, nowhere in the Bible has Christians criticizing Christians, at least, not in any Bible I own. I have long since ripped out Romans through Jude in the New Testament since there just seems to be a lot to bitching. It’s almost as if Paul started a blog to admonish what he considered non-Christian behavior among Christians…
Anyway, Paul’s letters should read: “To the church at Ephesus, you guys are doing swell. Keep up the good work. Prison food sucks. Wish you were here. Hugs and kisses XOXOXOX, Paul.”
July 31st, 2006 at 12:39 pm
prison food sucks lol…
similar to the spiritual food CBC and it’s minions have been serving for sometime…
Judah Smith’s work is similar to fast food in that the initial moment of impact is quite tasty but down the road one finds oneself dodging traffic to get off the proverbial highway to…
uh um…
relieve ones self in anyway that god has provided their earthly vessel to do so.
XOXOXO
July 31st, 2006 at 1:06 pm
Hmmm … there may be a song in that, JP:
TTTO: What I Like About You (Ramones and Romantics)
You can blog about me
I can blog about you …
July 31st, 2006 at 4:10 pm
This is Dr. James Dobson’s opinion on the forbidden “M” subject. It will surprise you.:
“Masturbation is a highly controversial subject and Christian leaders differ widely in their perspectives on it. I will answer your question but hope you understand that some Bible scholars will disagree emphatically with what I will say.
First, let’s consider masturbation from a medical perspective. We can say without fear of contradiction that there is no scientific evidence to indicate that this act is harmful to the body. Despite terrifying warnings given to young people historically, it does not cause blindness, weakness, mental retardation, or any other physical problem. If it did, the entire male population and about half of females would be blind, weak, simpleminded, and sick. Between 95 and 98 percent of all boys engage in this practice — and the rest have been known to lie. It is as close to being a universal behavior as is likely to occur. A lesser but still significant percentage of girls also engage in what was once called “self-gratification.”
As for the emotional consequences of masturbation, only four circumstances should give us cause for concern. The first is when it is associated with oppressive guilt from which the individual can’t escape. That guilt has the potential to do considerable psychological and spiritual damage. Boys and girls who labor under divine condemnation can gradually become convinced that even God couldn’t love them. They promise a thousand times with great sincerity never again to commit this despicable act. Then a week or two passes, or perhaps several months. Eventually, the hormonal pressure accumulates until nearly every waking moment reverberates with sexual desire. Finally, in a moment (and I do mean a moment) of weakness, it happens again. What then, dear friend? Tell me what a young person says to God after he or she has just broken the one thousand first solemn promise to Him? I am convinced that some teenagers have thrown over their faith because of their inability to please God at this point of masturbation.
The second circumstance in which masturbation might have harmful implications is when it becomes extremely obsessive. That is more likely to occur when it has been understood by the individual to be “forbidden fruit.” I believe the best way to prevent that kind of obsessive response is for adults not to emphasize or condemn it. Regardless of what you do, you will not stop the practice of masturbation in your teenagers. That is a certainty. You’ll just drive it underground — or under covers. Nothing works as a “cure.” Cold showers, lots of exercise, many activities, and awesome threats are ineffective. Attempting to suppress this act is one campaign that is destined to fail — so why wage it?
The third situation around which we should be concerned is when the young person becomes addicted to pornographic material. The kind of obscenity available to teenagers today has the capacity to grab and hold a boy for the rest of his life. Parents will want to intervene if there is evidence that their son or daughter is heading down that well-worn path.
The fourth concern about masturbation refers not to adolescents but to us as adults. This habit has the capacity to follow us into marriage and become a substitution for healthy sexual relations between a husband and wife. This, I believe, is what the apostle Paul meant when he instructed us not to “deprive” one another as marital partners: “Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control” (1 Corinthians 7:5).
As for the spiritual implications of masturbation, I will have to defer to the theologians for a more definitive response. It is interesting to me, however, that Scripture does not address this subject except for a single reference in the Old Testament to a man named Onan. He interrupted sexual intercourse with his sister-in-law and allowed his semen to fall on the ground to keep from producing offspring for his brother, which was his “duty” (Genesis 38:8). Though that verse is often cited as evidence of God’s disapproval of masturbation, the context doesn’t seem to fit.
So, what should parents say to their kids about this subject? My advice is to say nothing after puberty has occurred. You will only cause embarrassment and discomfort. For those who are younger, it would be wise to include the subject of masturbation in the “Preparing for Adolescence” conversation I have recommended on other occasions. I would suggest that parents talk to their 12- or 13-year-old boys, especially, in the same general way my mother and father discussed this subject with me. We were riding in the car, and my dad said, “Jim, when I was a boy, I worried so much about masturbation. It really became a scary thing for me because I thought God was condemning me for what I couldn’t help. So I’m telling you now that I hope you don’t feel the need to engage in this act when you reach the teen years, but if you do, you shouldn’t be too concerned about it. I don’t believe it has much to do with your relationship with God.”
What a kind thing my father did for me that night in the car. He was a very conservative minister who never compromised his standards of morality to the day of his death. He stood like a rock for biblical principles and commandments. Yet he cared enough about me to lift from my shoulders the burden of guilt that nearly destroyed some of my friends in the church. This kind of “reasonable” faith taught to me by my parents is one of the primary reasons I never felt it necessary to rebel against parental authority or defy God.
Well, those are my views, for what they are worth. I know my recommendations will be inflammatory to some people. If you are one of them, please forgive me. I can only offer the best advice of which I’m capable. I pray that in this instance, I am right.”
July 31st, 2006 at 4:15 pm
“First, let’s consider masturbation from a medical perspective. We can say without fear of contradiction that there is no scientific evidence to indicate that this act is harmful to the body.”
What the heck is Dr. Dobson mentioning science for?
What place does science have in all this??? and where the heck and who the heck determines how much of this dang evil… um… science are we gonna let penetrate our faith???
dangit!…..
July 31st, 2006 at 4:32 pm
I’m willing to be totally honest before God and my “peers” because I truly want to follow God. I struggle with this issue and I don’t care if you ridicule me or not…
What are those of us who tried the “wait until marriage” and then never even had a half-decent sexual experience supposed to do? My first time was considered rape (by my new husband) and he was brutal until the day I went into the abused women’s shelter.
I’m still saving myself for if I ever get married again, to the right person this time. If that doesn’t happen, I will never experience true intimacy. Should I create my own? Why would God give me this desire for healthy sex and not fulfill it? I’d love to hear your thoughts…
I know, TMI, TMI. But if it gets me closer to God’s truth, I don’t care what others think.
July 31st, 2006 at 4:38 pm
sex isn’tt the fun part for me.
It’s looking into each other’s eyes while having sex that is the fun part.
If you can’t trust yourself to find a healthy partner, don’t sign up for the match.
some people don’t have sex with other people.
some don’t want too, but do out of self doubt.
I hope you find someone who you can trust with everything you have.
July 31st, 2006 at 8:55 pm
oinvu4uraqt,
When my 1st marriage ended abruptly, I sought counseling from a woman who specialized in counseling sexual abuse victims, with the hope that my ex would finally deal with the childhood sexual abuse issues that prevented us from knowing real intimacy (emotional, trust, and physical). But she was determined not to deal with it, and that was the end of the marriage.
I stayed with the counselor, because I had been deeply injured by the terrible relationship with my ex, and she was able to help with insights a general counselor could not. In time, she asked a male pastor friend of hers to get several of us husbands of sexual abuse victims together as a support group. It was so enlightening to talk with others who were in the same situation; one of us would start sharing an experience, and the rest of us could finish it, because we had all experienced the same.
While there was a lot of healing there for me, only so much can be accomplished in counseling. The real healing came when the Father brought Karen into my life in ‘96. She’s incredible and I feel loved unconditionally. Secure in that love, the healing has been complete.
I practiced 2nd virginity after the separation, however I can’t boast like Jonah does..
Masturbation is OK - I’m sure.
As for the desire for a husband, I can tell you my Karen’s prayer, while she was waiting for me:
“Jesus, I want you to be sufficient for me - like a husband to me”
He was. For 20 years He was sufficient, while Karen remained single. And finally, when Karen was 42, we met. On AOL. Karen lived south of Chicago, me near Seattle. We fell in love via email, without ever seeing a picture of each other. Then we talked by phone. My God, her voice melted me. And finally we met when I flew to Chicago, Labor Day ‘96, and then every other weekend for a year until we could be married summer ‘97. We both knew very early on that this was it - the love we’d been looking for. And I think that is because WHEN you meet the person God has chosen (even made) for you, the love is ALREADY there - like you already know and love the person on some subconscious / deep level - and so the time you spend to gether is NOT for falling in love, rather, it’s for getting to know one another.
Our watch-verse, while we waited for each other, was the same:
Delight yourself in the Lord, and He will give you the desires of your heart.
Until the day God introduces you to HIS choice in a husband for you, I pray that Christ is sufficient for you.
Jack
July 31st, 2006 at 9:25 pm
John444, that is one of the most beautiful stories I’ve ever heard. Thank you!
August 2nd, 2006 at 7:47 am
Hey everyone,
It amazes me that so many people are opposed to Judahs style of Preaching. He is one of my heros.This man has literally changed my life. I am offended that you people would diss him the way you did. He is doing what God has called him to do. I believe that with my whole heart. Next fall i am going to be an intern at his church. I believe Judah is bringing awareness to the church. Teaching right from wrong, in a way that teenagers can relate. You guys are simply confused because you listen to one part of a message and blow it out of proportion. I agree with the others that challenge you to listen to the whole message. Try to see the big picture of what this man of God is saying. You may change your views. If anyone would like to discuss this further, you can email me at jonathan-kaiser@hotmail.com
August 2nd, 2006 at 9:42 am
I’d like to hear what Judah has to say personally. I’d like to see him comment here. Can anybody pass that message on to him?
August 2nd, 2006 at 10:08 am
Judah has a real talent for speaking. If only he where speaking words of unity and inclusion.
How beautiful would that be?
Maybe Judah would like to meet up for pints at a cozy www.mcmenamins.com?
August 2nd, 2006 at 11:25 am
Hey, I’d be there. I’d like to see that show! I think it would be like watching an episode of Seinfeld…
August 2nd, 2006 at 5:35 pm
Well he is the “master of his domain”.
August 3rd, 2006 at 6:49 am
Though it’s too late for me, I’m moved to tears by the number of people who are rushing to Judah’s defense for the mean and spiteful accusation of masturbation. Where were they when I needed them?
August 3rd, 2006 at 6:27 pm
They were behind closed doors doing the “lonely naughty thing” themselves probably and feel they have to oppose it because they feel guilty.
I think we’ve all done the same thing at one time or another…just some won’t admit it.
August 8th, 2006 at 11:02 am
Are the people on here making fun of Pastor Judah serious? Wake up! He’s saving everyone he talks to! Sex is the most beautiful thing that two people can share together, he was making he’s point clear. I used to be on the side of having sex with girlfriends for fun. Now that I’m living for God all the answer are right in front of your face. Sex is amazing, and is meant for marriage. Pastor Judah is a blessing to the NW and the world. Peace.
August 8th, 2006 at 11:29 am
UGH. Reading these posts just get’s to me. Alright. He talked a lot about sex to get single’s to focus on marraige, not sex before marriage. He has cool style, better than me, and who care about how he talks, it’s his character that matters. Yes, masturbation is wrong and yes, you can stop, i did. It all starts in your mind, you get sex out of your mind and your body doesn’t get charged up.
Check out http://www.generationchurch.org/audio, then you can learn more about him. Everyone has faults and he talks about his family to make him more human.
August 8th, 2006 at 11:48 am
Jeff, his fake accent does matter. That phony accent is a gimmick, and people use gimmicks to make their message more attractive or stand out to people. Why would Judah need a gimmick to communicate God’s truth or does he lack the faith to let his words stand on their own merit?
August 8th, 2006 at 11:57 am
Let’s everybody sing:
All hail the power of Jonah’s name
The masturbaters call
Lift forth your oiled up palms again
And crown him lord of balls
Lift forth your oiled up palms again
And crown him lord of balls
August 8th, 2006 at 1:13 pm
Even since childhood he has wanted to be the center of attention. He’s just milking it for all it’s worth. Hey Judah! Milk the cow for all it is worth while you can before people figure out it’s really all bull.
August 8th, 2006 at 2:22 pm
I think the thing that annoys me the most about big organized, corporate churches is their literal worship of “Type A” personalities. Modern mega churches today are structured like American Corporations and just like those corporations they honor and promote certain personality types and set them as “example christians” when what they are truly doing is reducing the complexity of the human christian pallete down to a bland stereo type.
“Type A” personalities tend to be great public speakers, organized, disciplined, focused, driven, etc., etc. and these are the type of people who manage to fight their way (or brown nose their way) to the top where they can show case the skills that God has given them. I honestly believe that their are some guys out there that becasue of their God given focus, discipline and drive are able to never masturbate, or even kiss their fiancee until they actually get married to them (Lord knows that I wasn’t one of them). I think they are very rare but they do exist. However, there are the rest of us minions who are different personality types, like the creative, passionate, expressive, artistic type who can write the most beautiful worship song to the Lord but maybe struggles with self control partly due to his personality type. He is looked down upon and expected to keep up with the skill set of a Judah or Dougy. I am not excusing peoples faults but hoping that we all realize that there are some people in this world who will probably never “get the victory” over masturbation (SIDE NOTE: not referring to myself, marriage really did the trick for me) and it will be a life long struggle for them just as Judah and Dougy have their faults in different areas that they will probably always struggle with. Even the Apostle Paul had a “thorn in the flesh” that God refused to remove to challenge him.
I remember Ken Malmin (who I would consider a “Type A” personality) speaking in a class and mentioning that he has always had a hard time connecting with people on an emotional level, or at least communicating that with people, and that he has greatly offended some people with this fault and it has hampered his effectivness in ministry. This is largely due, in my opinion, to his “Type A” personality which is very analytical, math oriented and generally less emotional. I figure he will always struggle with that. He may get better but he will probably always struggle with it. Now, do we want to place ourselves in the place of God and decide which is the greater sin,:the causing of the stumbling of a brother through your lack of ability to connect or a little private pocket pool in the privacy of your own bathroom. I am not making a judgment here I am simply trying to point out that we all struggle with different things on different levels and it starts to become a slippery slope when you start picking the faults that are “godly faults” and the ones that are not.
For leaders (especially youth leaders. Remember Jesus’ words about the milestone and causing a little one to falter) to stand up on a stage and rub the fact that they were victorious in a certain area (whether it be true or not) because of certain strengths that were God given to begin with in the faces of their parishoners with the end result of making them feel like a pile of shit becasue if they “really” loved God they would measure up is completely repulsive to me. In my mind it would be no different than having all the thin girls in the audience come up on stage and brag about how because of their love for Jesus they have been able to control their appetites while leaving all the poor little fat sinners down in their seats steaped in self loathing because their talent set doesn’t included a little more self control but if they could only love Jesus a little more, abide in the vine, and maybe get hyped up at a few more Generation F****** Unleashed sessions they would “get the victory.
August 8th, 2006 at 4:30 pm
HE is a blessing or a blessing/great marketing scheme?
Alot of us around here just don’t like his “style” o.k. Jeff.
He’s not evil. His willingness to put himself above others and inflict guilt on others around him, is though.
Jesus saved us all. Some of us just wish the youth pastor’s wouldn’t forget this…
August 8th, 2006 at 5:45 pm
[…] Dave Phillips offers these thoughts: […]
August 8th, 2006 at 8:51 pm
Dave, Thanks for your comments. My husband and I were at PBC with you. (I’m a couple years your junior.)
“Trying not to be bitter” seems to be a trend with most PBCers. And I really do think a lot of it is CBC’s Philosiphy of “levels of sin”. I never could understand why I felt so judged there. I guess I just happened to struggle with, what they thought, were the wrong types of sin.
I’m not sure I’m making any sense. I just wanted to say thanks.
August 8th, 2006 at 10:10 pm
2 things:
1-I don’t think anyone needs to be told that sex is a good thing. I think we all know that. Married people know it, single people know it. The message is irrelevant.
2-I don’t have a problem with a Judah or 2 saying they made it their entire single life w/o masturbating. However, it would have much more credibility if they were like 55 and saying it, not 21.
I, however am more grateful for people like Josh Harris, who also came out of the domes, who in Chapter 1 of his book on purity talks about his struggles with the M word.
His book came out right before he took over CJ Mahaney’s 5000 member church. That to me is a hell of a lot more gutsy and relevant than saying Sex with my wife is fun.
We all know we’re supposed to be pure. Most of us fail. The real message the church needs to hear is that Jesus loves us anyway.
August 8th, 2006 at 10:17 pm
Hi Dave,
Please let me know if I remember you correctly. I went to PBC from ‘78 til ‘81 and attended BT. If I remember right you came from canada. You had strawberry reddish hair. Is that right?
Thanks for responding. Anything over a week makes my memory foggy.
August 9th, 2006 at 8:27 am
Mandie,
Without exposing too much are you the Mandie whose husband I was part of a “secret society” with? (I don’t remember what we called the group but we drank alot and had some great discussions).
Regardless, whether you are or not, I appreciate your response. My natural inclination is to be oppossed to “victim mentalities”; (I tend to believe that life is what you make it) so I don’t want to go too far into blaming CBC for my hypertension and spurts of depression but it is times like the one I had yesterday watching that clip that I wonder whether or not I am suffering from post traumatic distress syndrome. (I had trouble sleeping last night partly due to thinking about this damn blog!)I know the cynics and critics are going to laugh their asses off at that comment but I have come to a conclusion. One of two things happened to me at PBC/CBC:
1. I was seriously screwed up when I went in and that place just exposed it
2. That place seriously F***** me up!!!
I am being as honest as I know how to be when I state that I am completely open to both answers, or both at the same time. I am even actually leaning towards the first but I honestly want to get healed.
If you know me, or have had a philisophical discuss with me before, you know that I am all about analogies. I think it is a great way to communicate. I think there is a reason why Jesus taught in parables.
That was a nice little transition into the analogy I am thinking of. I see it like this: If 10 years ago I got into a car wreck and the front end of my car was all smashed in I bet you would feel sorry for me and we would talk a little trash together about the driver who really messed me up. However, if you saw me 10 years later and I still had the same dents and damage on the car and was still talking about it and saying “well, the reason I can’t really get out and drive and socialize these days is because that driver really messed me up” you would be thinking “what a loser; just get over it. Pay the money and get it fixed. Sure the driver was responsible for the original damage but it’s not his fault that you have left it that way.”
My entries tend to be long winded (Alot like my jokes, Jesse, if you are reading. But, as you know, I have stopped apologizing for that a long time ago; I just take longer) Hope my point is not lost in the letters.
In any case, say hello to your husband if you are the Mandie I am thinking of and if not it was nice to chat with you.
August 9th, 2006 at 8:36 am
LoveMyLab,
Sorry Dude, I think you have the wrong guy. I think you might be thinking of the Emergency Medical Technician guy at CBC whose name is David Phillips as well. He’s the guy with the deep voice that gets up during services and prophesizes-es-es (SP???) reall dramatic like. I was 2 years old in ‘78. I went to PBC from ‘94-’98 and I hail from California. I have brown hair, blue eyes, a stunning athletic physique. I like to read books and take long walks on the beach. I also like pina coladas and getting lost in the rain.
(J/K)
August 9th, 2006 at 9:26 am
Jesus didn’t save “all”. He saves the ones that love him. You have to feel some guilt in order to love him and transform. Oh well.
August 9th, 2006 at 9:27 am
Dave,
You had me at brown hair.
Signed - the husband of the former Ms. Cleaver.
August 9th, 2006 at 9:28 am
So is this website all about bashing CBC. I’ve never been. I’ve been listening to Judahs’s sermons online for about 7 months. All I know is that it’s helped me reach a higher standard.
August 9th, 2006 at 9:42 am
What’s the gimmick? It’s not fake. Yes, it’s strange. But he’s himself. Funny talking or not.
August 9th, 2006 at 9:47 am