Churchtastic
Posted on July 25th, 2006 by catalyst into the Uncategorized categoryChris Snethen sends over quite possibly the greatest sermon summary I have ever read. It's a little long, but well worth the read. The author recently attended a Fourth of July Sermon at a Mega Church in Nashville, and shares his thoughts. As always, try to read the whole thing.
Money quotes:
My dad and mom had both been appealing to me to attend a service and their appeal finally won me over for Cornerstone’s Fourth of July service which bills itself as, “Nashville’s Largest Indoor Fireworks Show.” This phrase was so compelling that I accepted an invitation on the spot. Call it churchtainment or enterchurch or whatever garbled conglomeration of church and entertainment you’d like. Bottom line: it’s churchtastic. So I embarked upon the first ever Church Game Diary on Saturday July 1 of 2006.
During the performance:
I check my cell phone to see what time it is and it suddenly occurs to me that it is 7:33 and I have yet to hear an actual Bible quote.
It’s 7:39 and I realize I’m watching the pastor speak on the jumbotron instead of watching the pastor himself directly in the center of the pulpit.
And after leaving the church:
For all the world I feel like I’ve just left a sporting event. Only I’m not sure if my team just won or lost.
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July 25th, 2006 at 4:32 pm
How soon until such an event is staged on Rocky Butt do you think? It seems they do try to keep up with the Jonses on fads.
July 25th, 2006 at 5:25 pm
Is there much of a patriotism message in Oregon churches, or elsewhere in the PNW? Has it increased since 9/11?
That was one of the culture shocks moving from Seattle to the rural midwest in ‘99. Patriotism is prominent in churches here, much moreso than in the PNW - at least in ‘99.
After 9/11, one baptist church here trotted out the red white and blue and plopped it down center stage on the altar. The minister, an interim from Scotland (and a good, gospel preaching man), promptly removed it. A few of the retired military men in the congregation put it back, and led the campaign to remove the minister.
Sounds strange I’m sure, but I strongly felt the day after 9/11, that patriotism would become the new national religion. Feels that way sometimes - but I’ve never heard it so bad as that Nashville church.
July 26th, 2006 at 4:01 pm
Jumbotrons kick ass! PF always made me laugh when he had the lisp on the jumbotron. lol
Patriotism is not necessarilly flying the flag, is it? The media has it’s own definitions for things but the dictionary alludes to this: Patriotism= Love of country and willingness to sacrifice for it.
Sacrifice is a personal matter and flying a flag is not a sacrifice, unless you count the $10.99 it cost ya to purchase that flag made in China, and the time it took to screw in the flag holder, a sacrifice?
For me personally, it is the willingness to be incarcerated, punished, rebuked, mocked and tread upon by fellow americans, while standing up and speaking my mind about the injustices that have occurred in this country to its citizens.
Volunteering for the military could be considered patriotism too, but from my experience, most of the folks in the military are there because they want to escape the poverty they grew into being born in this country.
Patriotism is another ism that should not be thrown around so liberally when men and women are dying over badly planned business adventures.
I wish the draft dodging pastor’s out there waving the flag, had one day in battle before they start messing people’s heads up with this “Jesus would want you to go over their and kick some Ass!” schpeal.
Nashville is still pissed they lost the civil war, I think? Strong headed folks who’ll never turn ya down for a hot meal though.
July 26th, 2006 at 4:04 pm
Patriotism in the NW looks a little more like WTO Protests than it does, a flag-waving bake sale.
We work hard up here to keep our American Values alive.
Google: John Silas Reed
July 26th, 2006 at 5:44 pm
Freedom costs a buck-o-five.
July 27th, 2006 at 7:31 am
Mr. Dumbass,
As someone who has family members who have served and even given their lives in the U.S. Military, I find your statement ignorant and calloused. While it may be true for some that service is an opportunity for a better way of life, no one goes into it without having seriously considered the possibility that they may have to someday make the ultimate sacrifice for their country (i.e. people like you). There is nothing more patriotic than serving willingly in the military, and it is even moreso when you don’t necessarily agree with the current administration or what you’re fighting for.
A coworker recently lost her brother, a Marine, in Afghanistan. I stood at the funeral and watched as her family mourned their loss, but spoke of how proud they were of him that his desire to was to serve his country and his family in the best way that he could think of. To say he and thousands of others like him are unpatriotic is living up to the name of “Dumbass”. To say that disruptive protests and getting jailed for being a public nuisance is more patriotic is just asinine. Believe what you want, get jailed if it makes you feel better, but don’t insult the patriotism of your fellow Americans who have given far more than you ever will, you ungrateful ass.
July 27th, 2006 at 4:30 pm
Dear Dumbass,
My son is a senior in high school and has his whole life wanted to be a Marine. He has spent the last two years giving this goal extreme and deep thought. He looks at both sides of the war, the political issues involved and the consequences that would/could result from this decision. He thinks about the role his faith would play if he were to decide to join. He has met with recruiters and his father and I will also meet with them soon. He is not trying to escape poverty and does not need money to help him get a college education. He is a talented football player and wrestler and has already been contacted by over two dozen colleges. Yet, his goal of being a Marine is still at the front.
I am proud to see how seriously he is taking this decision. I do not know what decision he will ultimately make. But I do know this…he is no “dumbass”…looking for a way for the government to support him. Rather, he is a young man who sees serving his country as a responsibility and an honor. So…Dumbass, be very glad there are those young men and women who take their military service seriously and not as an escape. They are the ones helping protect your dumbass.
July 27th, 2006 at 5:55 pm
Thanks for all the kind words FICM & Chinook.
I’m glad to say I joined the military and recieved and honorable discharge just like I was trained.
I will respect an individual to do anything he/she wants to do in this life.
The Service is necessarry and it has flaws. Government is necessary and it has flaws. We all choose our personal battles in life.
Families who have lost loved ones in past/present wars, are always deeply affected my the emotional toll that death brings to so many in this world.
I have two long time friends who have both served in OIF and they are both now in mental hospitals dealing with the things they were instructed to carry out.
Killing other people in other countries for quality of life issues is a huge subject.
I don’t pretend to think that wars can be completely eradicated.
Both of you who commented on my original post should go join up and serve for four years and then give me you pat schpeal about how horrible I am.
I’ve seen guys take thier life in my quarters. I’ve had guys try to kill me.
Just try to understand that if you don’t go, you don’t know.
Please don’t pull the military card if you haven’t been there.
I have family members who have chosen dangerous options in their life and if they die, I respect thier decision to do what ever they will with this one life.
If you have served, I respect your service and your comments.
Enjoy your freedom. I’ll enjoy mine.
Cheers
P.S. Chinook. If your son decided to jump off a bridge for the rush and excitment of it, would you let him? The marines are trained to die and itf that is what you want for your son, so be it. Just please don’t pressure him into doing it to make you look good to your buddies. That is one of the things that really got me when I had to deal with this subject. Please understand what Jesus says about turning the other cheek. The wars being fought now, are being stoked by people who have no regard for you, your son, or his life.
FICM. I understand the frustration with your loss. Please don’t blame me or others like me for your loss. Your family members did what they had to do. I respect that. They are gone. I and thousands of disabled Vets like me, know what it’s like to lose people right NOW.
Please take no personal offense to my comments. This issue is very emotional for everyone who cares about this country we inherited.
July 27th, 2006 at 7:04 pm
Dear D.A.
I appreciate and agree with most of your comments. I have enough military in my family that have served stateside, in WWII and in Iraq to know that your comments are very real. My son is looking to be part of something bigger than himself and to be part of a noble cause. As his parents, we know that the Marines will train him to kill and to be killed and could care less of his motivation to join. He is very aware that if he joins, he may die. He also knows that if he doesn’t die that he may loose a limb, or worse loose himself mentally, emotionally and spiritually. That is precisely what my son is looking to balance.
Never did I say he was doing this for the rush and the excitement. And there is not one of his friends or one family member that is pushing him towards this. It is coming from within himself.
My previous comments were based solely as a reaction to your original comment that joining the military was not so much patriotic as a way out of poverty. I do not think you are horrible.
So Jesus says turn the other cheek, but in the Old Testament God sure kicked some ass. It’s a tough call. How do you know what’s right? It’s a tough call…and you are right…very emotional.
Thanks for your response.
July 27th, 2006 at 7:10 pm
chinook said:
July 27th, 2006 at 7:04 pm
“So Jesus says turn the other cheek, but in the Old Testament God sure kicked some ass.”
I guess you gotta follow your heart? We all do.
I thought Jesus came to fix the wrongs done in the Old Testament?
Funny how Christians can use the Bible so loosely to justify insanity.
I hope your son doesn’t have to kill anybody.
July 27th, 2006 at 7:19 pm
I thought Jesus came to be the sacrifice for our sins and give everyone direct access to God through him. Is that the same as correcting the “wrongs” done in the OT?
I’m not using the Bible to justify anything. Just using it as something to ponder.
Actually, I think this whole mess is the result of different religions thinking God is telling them they are right and everyone else is wrong. That’s a pretty dangerous assumption for anyone to make.
I hope my son doesn’t even join.
July 27th, 2006 at 7:24 pm
chinook
heres an option to research
Give this blog a shot if you’d like to know that your son was given options from his mother, who I’m sure he respects.
http://www.progressiveaustin.org/nmofy/drupal/
best wishes
July 27th, 2006 at 8:48 pm
D-A,
My son and I will look it over and discuss it together.
Thanks.
July 28th, 2006 at 7:41 am
Well, Dumbass, I suppose if I had known that you had served, I would have disagreed with you a little more kindly. It would have been nice if you had given us the background of your viewpoint beforehand, so you can understand my reaction when you make such a large blanket statement without any kind of clarification. I heard the same viewpoint from a lot of people who didn’t have the courage to serve like you, and so it was easy to lump you into that category. You know, the people who throw rocks at a Starbucks and block freeway onramps or march down Burnside to tousle with police because they believe anarchy is a good time.
You’ve served and you’ve protested. You are patriotic. But I still respectfully disagree that the latter is more patriotic than the former, especially if you’re not willing to do both.
July 28th, 2006 at 2:57 pm
I wish I could understand you position but unfortunately, your attitude,as it comes off on this blog, is one of weakness. Weakness in your position on this and many topics.
Your attitude as you exchanged with me, reveals that you are willing to tear into anyone without even knowing the basis of their experience.
It is not my fault that I did not explain my entire life story to you.
FICM. If you are going to have “strong” opinions on these things and are so willing to tear down others before even knowing their history, you clearly exhibit the attitude which discourages so many from the church lifestyle and institutional life.
Get used to people having strong feelings. Next time you wanna tear into someone, do it face to face so you can have a little blood on your chin too. O.K.
I am by no means a perfect person, but if you disagree with a view point, try to find the basis of that viewpoint before you end up looking like the dumbass.
I’ve never been in a street protest. While serving in the military, the government takes those rights away from members. In fact, lately if you say anything that doesn’t follow party line structure, you can have your ass in the brig before you even know whats going on.
Now that i’m out of the service, I can protest and stand up for what I feel is truly American Values.
If you don’t like free thinking people, move to France!
he he he
July 28th, 2006 at 4:35 pm
Dumbass,
This being the internet, I can only go by what I see here. Getting a full background check on you before I agree or disagree with your opinion or position seems unreasonable. It’s a weakness we all face when arguing over the web. But it seems hypocritical to call me out on that weakness when you don’t know anything about me either except what I told you (which initally was a lot more than you told me). It’s a two-way street. I think that’s the first time anyone has ever lumped me into church lifestyle and institutional life. I don’t even go to church at present. If you knew me at all, you’d know I was part of the CBC way of life for more than a decade and renounced it years ago. Now who is tearing who down before knowing their history? And how do I go about doing this “face to face”? Seems I already have some virtual blood on my chin from the scolding you just gave me. I’ll turn the other cheek if you wish. Tell me again why I’m out of line?
I never judged you for your strong feelings. This blog is full of ‘em, and I’m used to it. Are you OK with me expressing my strong feelings? I disagreed with your opinion on the definition of what is patriotic. I even described you as being patriotic and conceded your point. Good golly, man, what do I have to do to seem like I’m playing fair? I never said you threw rocks at a Starbucks. I implied that I had mistakenly lumped you into a group of people who did. I think you read too much into my statement. Which part of “I respectfully disagree” offended you?
It’s obvious we don’t agree on this and I’d rather not repeat recent history have this turn into another insult contest. There is too much funny to be had with the people running the domes. Can we go back to that now?
Let’s protest tithing! I can get behind that!
July 29th, 2006 at 7:37 pm
Down with tithing!
Say no to tithing!
Tithing? Tithing? Don’t think so, honey!
You need a life and I need my money!
Enough protest for you?
Next!
July 30th, 2006 at 11:40 pm
FICM
“If you knew me at all, you’d know I was part of the CBC way of life for more than a decade and renounced it years ago.”
I’d like to know what that “renunciation” sounded like… I’m sure that was hilarious enough for a song or a jingle on this blog.
I don’t think there is a CBC way of life. I simply feel that there are people who rely on “old -technology” (group think) to speak about, talk, discuss, and improve modern issues.
Then there are people who attempt to find new ways of including all god’s children, so to speak… New insights into old “problems”…
I strive to be the latter.
I feel you fall into the “old technology” category. Maybe I’m wrong? I just hear alot of people on this blog say how messed up CBC was for its group think and it’s stressing the importance of keeping an image which, in my opinion, never had anything to do with Christ’s initial message of salvation and tolerance.
The same people who dispise CBC for it’s group think attitude, then come on this blog and try to tell me I’m wrong for having opinions that are based on my actual experiences rather than second hand conversations and diluted institutional “norms”.
There are alot of answers in this world to most of the problems we see daily. The only reason these answers don’t surface is because they don’t have a forum to reach the masses without offending half of them.
In fact, the wars going on in the world now could be solved rather quickly if the major religions didn’t have such a strangle hold on people’s ability to think for themselves with the brain God gave them.
But alas, leaders need sheep and the sheep enjoy watching a good horror film, I guess? Take that as you wish.
The church used to be a place to solve problems.
Increasingly, the Church (of all faiths) and it’s followers, past and present, have become the wall between problems and solutions.
Now we have war between major religions.
Our nation lets out a battle cry. If you love God and this country you must espouse a “patriotic” attitude! Wal-mart shopper friendly of course.
I dont pretend to have the answers. I simply feel that the answers are evident and the real evil is the group think that prohibits peaceful solutions to very small problems from coming to the surface.
In a sense, I see the modern church kicking it own ass on the way out the door and many on this blog who claim to have had bad times in CBC still have the same critical thinking block going on, that they did a CBC ect.
The tithing jokes are kinda funny for awhile but at some point we must accept why we are really visiting this blog.
I would guess we would like to see changes that will make our children happy we didn’t have our heads up our own rear entry.
P.S. Whenever I post on this blog, I’m smirking and cracking up. Take nothing I say on this blog personally.
Because I have never met you and most likely may never.