The ‘Organic’ Judah
Posted on October 20th, 2006 by Samaritan into the The City Church categoryThe gift of discernment often makes listening to a religious message very difficult, as the pastor reads scripture (spirit and truth) and then expounds on it (potentially out of a fleshly understanding). There are times when listening to a message, my spirit is in agreement, until the pastor throws in that old familiar manipulative "twist" to chide people into serving the institution over which the pastor presides. Ideally, a message should be wholly truthful and delivered in/by the Holy Spirit, however messages with a few twists rooted in the doctrines of men and the unquestioning support of institutionalism are more typical in my listening experience.
Judah's 2 part series on Organic Christianity however was spiritually convulsive for me, as he attempted to slap a coat of organic green paint on himself, the religious institution that profits him, and the doctrines of men which establish and insulate him as its leader.
The basis of his 2 part message was Acts 2:40-47.
Acts 2:40-47 MSG [Peter] He went on in this vein for a long time, urging them over and over, "Get out while you can; get out of this sick and stupid culture!" (41) That day about three thousand took him at his word, were baptized and were signed up. (42) They committed themselves to the teaching of the apostles, the life together, the common meal, and the prayers. (43) Everyone around was in awe–all those wonders and signs done through the apostles! (44) And all the believers lived in a wonderful harmony, holding everything in common. (45) They sold whatever they owned and pooled their resources so that each person's need was met. (46) They followed a daily discipline of worship in the Temple followed by meals at home, every meal a celebration, exuberant and joyful, (47) as they praised God. People in general liked what they saw. Every day their number grew as God added those who were saved.
Near the beginning of the message, Judah exclaimed: "We're gonna get rid of all the man made stuff, and GO ORGANIC". He went on to talk about organic vs. chemically enhanced foods, how just a few decades ago everything was organic, but crop loss and poor yields drove the development of non-organic methods to increase yield and profit. He relates organic and non-organic to Christianity, specifically, the non-organic Christian may look good on the outside but be full of man made ideologies and theologies and philosophies that God never made nor intended. He states "If you don't go organic, you're not gonna last" and that only by going organic will you hear "Well done good and faithful servant."
While I do not disagree with his application of the organic metaphor to individuals, their personal walk with the Lord, the condition of their hearts, etc., Judah never once questions whether the institution is the non-organic creation of man. Though Judah warned against "man made ideologies and theologies and philosophies", he did not name a single one. By comparison, Paul whom Judah cited as author of 2/3rds of the NT, did not hesitate to identify false doctrines, such as circumcision, continuing to observe food laws, false apostles, etc. So tell them Judah; what are the "man made ideologies and theologies and philosophies" believers should be wary of?
I'd be happy to name a few "man made ideologies and theologies" (false doctrines): THE TITHE (Matthew 17:24-26, 2 Corinthians 9:7), THE BUILDING as the HOUSE OF GOD (Acts 7:48, Acts 17:24, 1 Corinthians 3:16, 1 Corinthians 6:19), SUBMISSION / SPIRITUAL COVERING (1 Corinthians 11:7, Matthew 23:8-10), THE CLERGY / LAITY DIVIDE (1 John 3:1, Galatians 3:26, 1 Peter 2:5-9, Revelation 1:6, Revelation 5:10). These are but a few of the many false doctrines that prop up the man made institution you represent, Judah.
Judah pitched 'cadres' as necessary to establish relationships and accountability with people who know you well, who know where you live, your email, your phone number, who can and will keep tabs on your spiritual walk. He also said "you need a pastor - somebody to look into your soul - and ask the hard questions - to really discover whether or not you're organic." In the next breath, Judah talked about Paul's church plants in Galatia, where "OT chronies" from the old system infiltrated the church and preached a different gospel that included works and effort - such as how you walk, talk, look, act, and do things. How are the Cadre's evaluation methods any different from those of the "OT chronies"? Both examine people based on non-organic criteria. Just listening to Judah's many remarks about others reveals his position on how a Christian should behave.
Presumably Cadres evaluate members by the same criteria Judah uses. For example: Do they read their Bible daily? Pray daily and especially for their pastor and other leadership? Do they tithe? Do they go to church? Judah has mentioned each of these 'evaluation criteria', all of which are rooted in man made theologies or are OT imports. Instead of the 'witch-hunt' mentality of "asking the hard questions", why not just be real (honest) with each other in loving brotherly relationship? As someone who has been involved in Relational Christianity and the Relational Body Life movement for years, I can assure you that people are put off by personal inquisitions of the type Judah is suggesting in his message. The practice smacks of authoritarian control under the watchful eye of "big brother."
The following 8 points are the characteristics Judah cited from scripture which he says identify an organic Christian. They are in the format of rough notes as I listened to his message. Following each of the 8 characteristics, are my comments and questions, if any.
1) Personal devotion … devoted all by themselves … I pray, read my Bible and tell people because I'm an organic Christian … talks about someone who got out from under religion and didn't read the Bible or pray for a year and had never felt so free - criticizes the person for it - says they're influenced by man made philosophy.
Samaritan: Since when is reading the Bible daily a requirement for being a Christian? The Bible was not readily available to the public until the 19th century, with the advent of modern mass printing methods. Regarding prayer, isn't a life devoted to Christ a prayer in and of itself? Does prayer have to take the form of kneeling, hands folded, at regular times of the day, or, can it be as led by the Spirit or as often as we need to go to the Father with a heartfelt concern?
2) Reverence … awe factor … people who say "hay buddy" to their pastor or call his parents by their first name - that is irreverence - they should be called 'reverend or pastor' - that's 'reverence for the house of God' … nothing holy any more … we over use word "awesome" - only God is awesome.
Samaritan: How can Judah talk about 'reverence in the house of God' and ask what happened to holiness - yet say often "shutup" to vessels of the Spirit, talk about sex with his wife, talk about farting and his farting skills and how freshman love fart humor? We are only holy when we are IN Jesus. We can NOT be holy. Even the Pharisees, for all their appearance of holiness, were said to be full of maggots and unclean things.
3) Ownership … greatest investment is giving in the house of God … talks about Poker tours - it's like poker nation - talks about being "all in" for Jesus. Says 5400 freshman joined UW today - says he asked the Lord for 2000 freshman … Judah's ALL IN … someone gave $1M for the down payment for the building they're in - calls that being "ALL IN". Taking ownership is giving all. How long we gonna sit at this table and watch you put in one chip at a time? God is looking for "all in".
Samaritan: Troubled my spirit that whenever Judah tried to make a "spiritual" point, he resorted to a "religious" example to underscore the point. Why is giving $1M for a building an indicator of being "spiritually" ALL IN? I thought the measure of being spiritually ALL IN was the fruit of the Holy Spirit? What building ever won someone to Christ? How much more would that same $1M have yielded if it had been invested in people? Sponsor a missionary, invest in individuals to help them put their talents to work for God, etc.
4) Generosity … "whatever you need the church gonna take care of you" … uses the word sucks, then says he never uses that word - hates the word - then observes he used it and says "shutup" … talks about his dream of building and furnishing a house just to give it away to someone else. Talks about person to person giving - helping one another out without even knowing someone elses name - just asks "are you one of us"? And helps them?
Samaritan: I wonder if the Good Samaritan asked the man who had been beaten and robbed and left for dead "are you one of us" before helping him? I'd like to see the GC books, please. If the church is going to take care of you, I'd like to see how GC is handling the tithes/offerings of people, and how those are being channeled through the pastor / leadership back out to the members to take care of their needs, and not just footing the bill for Judah, the building and utilities, etc.
5) Worshipping Together - talks about the first believers being in "one accord" - I believe in the local church - the coming together - "get into the same accord WITH ME" - has piano play nice chords, and dissonant chords - differentiates between accord / harmonious and discord / dissonant. Accord is not being in the same building or singing the same song - rather being of the same mind and passion - some people think they're "submitted" but they sound like 'this' (piano hits a terrible chord) - criticizes people who are not "submitted" - who are not in accord with a pastors vision - says "there are no lone rangers in Christianity" - the Lord will not tell you 'well done' for your independence …
Samaritan: The Lord will not tell you "well done" for your conformity. Regarding the old and tired 'Lone Ranger' cliche, and being IN a building and SUBMITTED to a pastor, I wonder how Judah reconciles Moses, Abraham, David, Elijah, John and Jesus, all of whom were called to the wilderness (alone) for a season. How is it that Jesus did not submit to the established religious institution? God has ALWAYS called people OUT of religious institutions to follow Him exclusively. That is the essential truth of Stephen's discourse in Acts 7. Further, worship is NOT gathering in one place to sing songs as led by a praise band. True worship is offering your very life upon the altar of God (Romans 12:1). And therein lies the epic conflict all of us must face. Whether to submit to the fear of man as expressed in the false doctrines of institutionalism, or, to leave the institutions of man (Revelation 18:4) and follow Christ like He commanded us (Matthew 10:37-39). Judah or Jesus; who are you following?
6) House to House Relationship - Continues talking about having meals house to house - house to house relationships - knowing one another over breaking bread - and having accountable / confronting type relationships - 'faithful are the wounds of a brother'.
Samaritan: I'm all for eating house to house. But, I disagree with the whole accountable relationship idea to the extent that it makes no allowance for eldership / maturity, and uses a religious criteria for judging someone's walk, rather than discerning by the Spirit and the evidence of fruit of the spirit. I also have to ask, IF the Acts 2:40-47 church is what God really wanted, why did He let the persecution of Acts 8:1 happen, which ultimately broke up the Acts 2 church and scattered them to the winds? The Acts 2 church was NOT obedient to the Great Commission. Jesus did NOT tell them to gather unto themselves - to form their own cloistered little community - He told them to GO OUT (to all the world) not STAY IN (Jerusalem).
7) Great Joy - ate meals with gladness and simple hearts - down plays / disses 'sophisticated thinking Christians' - talks about bringing all the knowledge and learning down to simplicity - and portrays himself as "I'm just a local pastor - not a Bible answer man - that loving each other is more important than doctrinal disputes - that it's still about Christ and Him crucified"
Samaritan: "I'm just a local pastor"? Wow. In a previous message just 2-3 weeks ago (the Waterpot message), Judah said "I am not here to fit in … We are here to take over". Judah is a real chameleon. I think Judah has some kind of disassociative disorder, or at the very least, his mouth is not connected to his brain, or his brain does not correlate what he is saying today with what he said yesterday. Paul I believe, called that 'double-mindedness' and a 'reed blowing in the wind'.
8) Favor With All The People - speaks of favor in context of blessing. Uses the example of a front page article the Seattle PI did on Judah and GC awhile back.
Samaritan: How does "favor with all the people" stack up with Paul's accounting of all the hardships and beatings and persecutions he went through? ALL the apostles were KILLED on account of living Christ. Same with the prophets of the OT who were killed for the truth. Where Jesus Christ is the "truth", they were killed for Jesus. So why is "favor with all the people" the measure of an organic Christian? Wouldn't a Christian who is truly letting Christ live through him / her, experience hardship and persecution? After all, didn't Jesus say: "you will have trouble in this life - the world will hate you because it hates me"?
CONCLUSION: Real organic Christianity does NOT need the religious institutions of man. Institutions are NOT organic. They are like greenhouses with artificial / filtered lighting and rife with pesticides, insecticides, fertilizers, hybrid religion, etc. Real organic Christianity, cuts out the middle man (the institution and the overlords thereof), where there is a simple 1:1 relationship between the gardener (God) and his planting (you). Religious institutions relate to believers in much the same way as green houses relate to seedlings. Unlike green houses however, religious institutions never transplant believers out in the world, but rather keep believers in the greenhouse their entire lives, where they are dependent on men to water and fertilize them. Sooner or later, if believers are to become truly organic, they must be transplanted out in the world, where they must rely on the Father in Heaven for all of their needs. Sooner or later, you must be planted in open ground, so that your roots do not become pot-bound, and to give you room to grow unhindered by the greenhouse environment and methods, whereupon you learn to walk by/in the Holy Spirit and to hear the Spirit of Christ for yourself. Organic Christians do not rely on men to hear God on their behalf; they hear, see, learn from and obey God directly. See John 10:27, Galatians 5:25, 1 John 2:27.
Finally, to Judah, I would say:
I practice organic Christianity. Organic Christians are my brothers. You, Judah, are NO organic Christian.
Sam
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October 20th, 2006 at 5:55 am
Nice!
Just a little easy weekend reading.
October 20th, 2006 at 6:20 am
Nice writting Sam.
October 20th, 2006 at 6:43 am
There are two reasons I come here. The first is for the satire. The second is to read about & help point out the obvious contradictions in the so-called doctrines of churches like CCC and CBC.
It still amazes me how they can twist Scripture into the saying the exact opposite of what the writers intended.
What I wouldn’t give to hear the Gospel preached in these churches again.
October 20th, 2006 at 6:57 am
Sam,
Well thought out!!!! That was “awesome”.
My experience when asked the hard questions from leadership was not asked out of love and concern. It’s a form of interrogation. It was a form of manipulation, domination, as if the askee was speaking as an absolute authority. Correctness without fault.
My Loving Heavenly Father speaks to me out of relationship. He never has spoken down to me.
It is refreshing to read a post that is well thought out!
Laura
October 20th, 2006 at 7:41 am
Pastor: How are you doing?
Johnpaul: Fine.
Pastor: No, how are you really doing?
Johnpaul: Uh….still fine?
I don’t know where I would be without the guidance from hard hitting leadership like CBC.
October 20th, 2006 at 9:11 am
Sam,
Very nice pointing out of the obvious hypocrisee (?) of the mega-church, conference happy, hype- driven ministries calling themselves organic. How can CBC be organic when they paid 150 grand for marketing. Makes me want to puke. Good use of scripture by the way.
Oh yeah I should follow my own advice and mix in some grace. I am sure that I need to be more “organic” myself and lean more on God and not man’s framework to walk before the Lord. Hopefully Judah can preach these things to himself and let it hit home before he starts pulling planks out of others eyes.
Johnpaul- How are you doing?
October 20th, 2006 at 10:16 am
Hi Jeremiah,
In my own preaching experience, my messages are better preached to the mirror than to the congregation. I have observed the same in many ministers.
Might that be because we can not bear the weight of all our faults as the Father reveals them to us, and so we project them onto our circle of friends to conscript their help in bearing the load?
Yes Johnpaul - How are you doing?
Sam
October 20th, 2006 at 3:29 pm
Just once I’d like to see someone help people like that. Often, there isn’t much standing in the way of someone who is gifted for a particular ministry and doing that ministry. When I was 21 or so and formed a singing group, all that stood between us and doing concerts was a sound system - back then a typical church had lousy PA systems so we wanted to get one we could depend on. That was 1976 or so - and even then they went for $2000, plus another $1000 for mics and cords. We got one, but paid for it ourselves after getting a loan and paying it off with pay from our jobs. We did several hundred concerts in 4 (?) years - for crowds as large as 2000, but averaging 50.
We have a scrapbook with many wonderful memories from that time. One church in particular comes to mind now for the beautiful ways in which God works through a small, relational-type ministry. We did a concert in Ashford, WA, just off the SW corner of the Mt. Rainier Nat’l Park - it was an avg. crowd - but took up the single largest love-gift offering we ever received. As the pastor handed it to me - and whispered the amount - I looked to my dad and brother and both nodded at me in agreement - we sensed the leading of the Holy Spirit - and gave it back to the pastor to give to a needy family since it was just a week or so away from Christmas. So, us grown men just stood there, cried and hugged. And then we opened the door to start loading out, and it had snowed while we were singing. That’s a specal memory, but there are many more like it.
My point is simply this: a love-gift into a ministry like my brother and I used to have would have helped touch tens of thousands of lives over the course of several years.
I’ve heard stories of missionaries barely getting by, musicians with new songs they can’t afford to record, artists who can’t afford art supplies or to put on a showing, people who want to dance or sing who need some training, etc., all of whom are waiting for the release that comes through someone’s kind investment and the vote of confidence that gives.
But the people who have the ability to give probably never had the chance to hear the hopes and dreams of people with a gift and desire for some kind of ministry.
For some reason, I’m thinking of that Amy Grant show that lasted a few months last winter (?). She and her crew came to a town, and asked people what their dreams were, and then helped people realize their dreams by ‘hooking them up’.
How I would love to see people who are blessed with wealth, invest in individuals, instead of just buying another building for people to cloister in. Investing in people isn’t as obvious or tangible as buying real estate, but in terms of outreach, it is a far better investment for taking the gospel to people in the world.
1 Timothy 6:17-19 ISV Tell those who are rich in the present world not to be arrogant and not to place their confidence in anything as uncertain as riches. Instead, let them place their confidence in God, who lavishly provides us with everything for our enjoyment. (18) They are to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous, and to share. (19) By doing this they store up a treasure for themselves that is a good foundation for the future, so that they can take hold of the life that is real.
The key in the scripture above, seems to be the phrase “AND TO SHARE”. Sharing is something people do through relationship - through evaluating individual needs and sharing the wealth to meet those needs.
Jack
October 20th, 2006 at 4:10 pm
Sam,
I have come to know that when I get the oppertunity to preach the Word, that I need the gospel just as much if not more than the people who are listening to me. For the very fact that to whom much is givin much will be required and I know that my shit stinks too. As the Father reveals to us our faults we can either run from them and make ourselves feel better by thanking God that we are not as bad as_____, or we can humbly acknowledge our faults and let grace be grace, this is repentance.
I am sorry Johnpaul- How are you really doing?
October 20th, 2006 at 6:59 pm
Judah’s right, you’ve got to mix a lot of shit into the soil if you want to grow organic.
October 20th, 2006 at 9:00 pm
Well, Judah certainly has plenty of that, now doesn’t he?
October 21st, 2006 at 12:58 am
Thank you, Samaritan for your restrained review. You were so much kinder than I would have been. When I listen to these types of sermons, from Jonah or whoever (yes, even PF himself), I just can’t stand it.
THIS IS NOT THE GOSPEL — THIS IS NOTHING LIKE ACTS 2.
Just imagine for one moment what the Apostle Peter would think if he sat through this sermon, if he could manage it. He’d be saying something like:
“We had this power upon us that was like the very presence of Christ, only magnified. In it we lived and moved and had our being. The Spirit was so strong that even the simplest sermons brought conviction to the hearts of people. When Yeshua died, we were confused; we didn’t get it. But when the understanding of what He did on the Cross finally sank in, we sat stunned. And when we began to live in the power of the Cross that brought us into a closeness with the Living God that Moses only dreamed of, well all we could preach was Yeshua and Him crucified and glorified.
The compelling Presence of God drew all kinds of people to us, so we taught them what we remembered from being with Yeshua those few years. We prayed together because when we did, He was with us again! We shared our stuff because when who cares about ’stuff’ when the King of glory is with you? We had this dynamic common bond that engulfed our souls and set our spirits on fire.
When opposition, then persecution and even martyrdom came, it didn’t matter. To live here on earth is to walk in this incredible grace. To die is to be in His heavenly Presence and see my Lord once more.
THIS is what it was like — joy inexpressible and full of glory. Of course, we had to organize to get things done. And of course, the more mature mentored the new disciples. But the core of it all was spending time with HIM, the Lord — one on one or all together — completely clean, forgiven and filled with love, joy, peace, kindness…..
I don’t perceive much of this in that sermon….”
October 21st, 2006 at 3:35 pm
Beautifully written yourself, Anna. Thanks for painting that picture of the early church for us.
Sam
October 22nd, 2006 at 1:59 am
Cadres.. the term will forever be linked to my time in Generation Church. Honestly.. any visitor to GC would have been absolutely creeped out by how many doe eyed young people would come up to them and try to get them to join a cadre. I was technically a member of a cadre but rarely ever went to cadre meetings. The guy who was my cadre leader (a guy I would describe as a loyal Judah Smith foot soldier.) would regularly call me to see how I was doing but he wasn’t doing this out of concern or friendship, he was doing it to keep tabs on me. I know it sounds melodramatic and totally inappropriate (and yeah.. I’ll give you inappropriate.) Cadres were GC’s secret police force. Its absolutely creepy and it makes my skin crawl. They are supposed to be about edification but in reality they were about enforcing theological “purity” and smacking down those who strayed with rubber hoses. Forgive me but I am bitter.. hehe
October 22nd, 2006 at 8:26 am
It sounds like you’re talking about the GC troops described in the “Left Behind” series. HHHHmmmmm…Maybe Generational Church really stands for Global Community.
October 22nd, 2006 at 5:28 pm
PMD said:
Does Judah or other church leadership pick the cadre leaders?
There’s a long list of them at the link - what few I looked at had the following statement:
It does sound creepy, PMD.
Sam
October 22nd, 2006 at 10:47 pm
I have a couple of random questions regarding Judah? 1. Does anyone know if he attended or graduated college? If so, where? 2. What type of car do him and his wife drive?
October 23rd, 2006 at 8:24 am
I think the people from this site have a good view of what it is to help put missions but other things are manipulated to preach their own bias. Personally I think they’re jealous of CBC and Pastor Judah. Besides if your so right with God we are you gossiping of other people. DID they hurt you? IF they did then you need to forgive because all you cause is division. You might think you unite and do it for the better good but you dont. And as far as the blog goes it’s pretty funny I dont agree with it but it’s funny at times. The way to deal with your problem is to confront Pastor Judah and tell him,. Because all you say in your blog is “Finally, to Judah, I would say” I think you need to do something about your problem big brother. You have become the Judah of this blog.
October 23rd, 2006 at 8:39 am
TUTIO,
Look for the plank in your eye…
You are doing exactly what you accuse us of doing…
Thanks though, I appreciate your thoughts.
October 23rd, 2006 at 8:50 am
TUTIO—- what cadre do you ascribe to?
October 23rd, 2006 at 9:01 am
Stop it - you’re killin’ me!
The real problem TUTIO, is that Judah is leading countless young people into bondage through gross error. What on earth makes you think Judah would listen to anyone with the voice of discernment, much less give them an audience to publicly correct him? It is precisely because Judah and every other leader of CBC, City Church, et al, have completely shut down 1 Corinthians 14:26 type assemblies, that people must resort to another venue to correct them by the Word and Spirit.
In keeping with the Biblical model for assemblies of the saints, per 1 Corinthians 14, when was the last time you saw someone stand up at GC and correct Judah by the Word and the Spirit, when he is wrong or is exalting himself? Or is everything Judah says the absolute truth and in total humility? Or, are the GC assemblies not in keeping with 1 Corinthians 14?
Sam
October 26th, 2006 at 9:05 pm
SHOOT, I think we have a dogmatist!!! Praise the Lord…. Samaritan has solved, for all of us ,the exegetical questions and queries of a Biblically centered paradigm!! Thanks big guy….my ecclesiastical confusion has abated. Whew that was a close one!!! Again, thank you for the catechist…………..
Samaritan,forgive me of the brusque sarcasm, but relax your inexorable opining……. Im embarrassed!!!!!!
October 27th, 2006 at 6:07 am
Yer welcome, Cowboy. But I think you ought to check your definition of dogma. The real dogmatists, would be Judah, Frank, Wendell, Ken, etc., as representatives of an institution without sound doctrinal basis. Unless of course it’s scripture and asking a few healthy questions about the application of it that you consider dogmatic? - Sam
Main Entry: dog·ma
Pronunciation: ‘dog-m&, ‘däg-
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural dogmas also dog·ma·ta /-m&-t&/
Etymology: Latin dogmat-, dogma, from Greek, from dokein to seem — more at DECENT
1 a : something held as an established opinion; especially : a definite authoritative tenet b : a code of such tenets c : a point of view or tenet put forth as authoritative without adequate grounds
2 : a doctrine or body of doctrines concerning faith or morals formally stated and authoritatively proclaimed by a church
October 27th, 2006 at 11:25 am
Haaa!! Thanks for the lexical experience, however i dont need a lesson on the etymological nuances of dogma…..
My premise, forgive me for the banal foregoing, is that dogma in its intrinsic form is a lingustic reference to ‘community”…… community, a grouping of people,much like this blog,does indeed have dogma!!!! Unless, you regard yourself as a neo progressive, who reject the very notion of dogma, you are uneqivocally dogmatic! You merely express a general theological bias held by this blogging society, notwithstanding the variegated tapestry of ideological difference……..
In other words, come out of your closet and admit that you are a “Dogmatist” !!! Dont fight it!!! And please refresh conceptually your idea of words. Quoting the dictionary makes you look a bit dull, boring, and mindless. Its analogous to a child who has gone back to her daddy searching for answers when lacking comprehensive insight.. Words have linguistic life and meaning and to cheapen that is to forfeit lexical adroitness .
Again forgive me for my brusquness……….
October 27th, 2006 at 11:55 am
Those $10 words excite me, Cowboy. If I come out of the closet, it won’t be because I’m dogmatic, gorgeous.
Sam
October 27th, 2006 at 12:25 pm
Cowboy, You keep using those words. I do not think they mean what you think they mean.
October 27th, 2006 at 1:42 pm
Do I have an audience? ……..apparently an illiterate one? jk
Man, I have plunged into your world of satire. Help!!!!! Oh ya i forgot satire means to mock…..whats that( I think i hear fezzik)? Well, how bout you go look it up in the dictionary, like your friend sam…….
October 27th, 2006 at 1:54 pm
Man, I thought I was dumbing it down for you people!!!! Maybe i was wrong about the dictionary thing, sam….
A little education would be helpful for this blog. Shoot, I am already talking kinda funny….like seriously i feel totally spazzed. Oh no!!! Heehee……….HELP!
October 27th, 2006 at 1:56 pm
THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS TOPIC BUT SERIOUSLY WHOEVER HACKED ON TO MY MSN ACCOUNT STOP IT. FOR ONE THAT IS DUMB AND IMMATURE! I KNOW SOMEONE FROM THIS SITE DID! SERIOUSLY THIS MAKES ME SOO MAD
October 27th, 2006 at 2:04 pm
Halloween gets scarier and scarier every year …
Main Entry: scary
Pronunciation: ’sker-E
Function: adjective
Inflected Form(s): scar·i·er; -est
1 : causing fright : ALARMING (a scary story)
2 : easily scared : TIMID
3 : feeling alarm or fright : FRIGHTENED
4 : brainless blogger using big words: COWBOY
- scar·i·ly /’sker-&-lE/ adverb
October 27th, 2006 at 2:40 pm
I have yet to find a “robust” refutation of the doctrine of tithing on this blog! Sorry fezzik go and look it up, hurry!!! I assumed this blog, because of its satire on tithing, would have at the least, some textual reason to not tithe. However, and unfortunately, there is only metaphor and meager attempts to satirize….so what are your reasons!! ?? And please do not resort to cliche…. For instance, “”all of those people are so BAD and so MEAN - Sorry
p.s. and please dont quote matthew 17 and the temple tax…..ahhhhhh! Let’s respect the jewish life and its complexies by not…..how would you say it? oh ya, “take things out of context.”
urs truly, cowboy……..
October 27th, 2006 at 2:57 pm
I have to say something here - Cowboy, PLEASE read what you’re writing before you click “submit”. You’re killing me!
I believe you meant to type “complexities”, not “complexies”, and your obsessive, unnecessary use of the comma is driving me nuts! It would take hours to read through and edit each of your grammatically ignorant comments, so please save us all the annoyance and just check your work, buddy!
October 27th, 2006 at 3:11 pm
sam i am so disappointed! I thought you would have something intelligent to say! oh well, you have already proven my point….You just dont know what your talking about!!! Anyone else??? And by the way, your attempts at satire reveal how……..well everyone knows:)……im sorry, i dont want to satirize those who love to satirize…..but I thought I was just playing your game….i guess two really cant play on this blog……
too bad
October 27th, 2006 at 3:21 pm
Cowboy, the solution to your problem can be found here.
October 27th, 2006 at 6:06 pm
Cowboy said:
I suppose the reason you can’t find a “robust refutation” of tithing has to do with how the people here came to view tithing as a false doctrine. You see, it isn’t by embracing a “robust refutation” that people became convinced tithing is false, rather, it is by revelation of the Holy Spirit and through His gifts of wisdom, knowledge and discernment. Most of the brothers and sisters here simply “know in their knower” that the tithe doctrine is false.
I’m sure it seems like a copout to say “the Spirit showed me”, but the reality is ALL spiritual truth comes by the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 2:14). Wisdom and knowledge are gifts of the Holy Spirit, freely given to those who ask for it and wait on the Lord for answers, not something we have to root out of scripture like pigs in search of truffles. In recognizing the fundamental truth of 1 Corinthians 2:14, what point is there in debating issues with religious people, itching for an argument? The person with the Spirit either possesses the truth by the Spirit or recognizes the truth when it is spoken by witness of that same Spirit. The person without the Spirit will continue to be tossed about by the winds of doctrine in “ecclesiastical confusion.”
My own education in the School of the Holy Spirit challenged my entrenched religious beliefs, by revelation (word of knowledge) and the Spirit’s leading to confirm the revelation by scripture, or by asking targeted questions of me to prove or disprove my cherished (learned) religious beliefs. Those revelations and questions asked by the Holy Spirit shook apart many towers of Babel that institutionalized religion had erected in my belief system. Among the first of the towers of Babel to fall, was the tower of tithing. In fact, as author of several papers that refute the tithe, many people who write me in response to the articles have identified the false doctrine of tithing as the linchpin that started to unhinge all the teachings of institutionalized religion and set them free to live simply as Sons of God by the Spirit.
If you are interested in reading some tithing articles, I have written and posted 6 of them at my web site, under the Giving in the New Testament section.
Other tithing resources can be found at the web sites of my friends, David Yeubanks, and Bob and Terri Earl. David’s site contains a link to a nearly 400 page eBook, by Dr. Russell Kelly that is the most thorough refutation of the tithe I know of.
http://prayershack.freeservers.com/tithing.html
http://www.harvestnet.org/basics/money.htm
Enjoy. Jack
October 27th, 2006 at 10:41 pm
Haaaaaa!! You crack me up…….. I am quite sure that I dont need lessons in grammar. Nice try!:)
,,,,,,,ooooops:)
October 28th, 2006 at 6:47 am
Obviously not. However, it wouldn't hurt you to take a few lessons in relational fellowship and get some counseling for your apparent need to hide behind so much invective and vitriol. I've heard it said "if you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit". What I've read from you thus far, falls into the latter category.
If it's relational fellowship you are looking for, please swap your tighty whities for a Judah thong, and join us in the hot tub. Capiche?
'Scrupe
October 28th, 2006 at 2:12 pm
Who needs the tighty whities???:) hummmm!!! I think unscrupulous is having a bad day!
Oh by the way, I thought this website was all about bull@#!…..I understand…. it is difficult to see anything covered in…….:):)
Capiche!!!…… just having some fun with ya!!!
October 28th, 2006 at 2:25 pm
:):):) You got spirit that is for certain…..!!!
November 16th, 2006 at 3:49 pm
Cowboy said,
“I have yet to find a “robust” refutation of the doctrine of tithing on this blog!”
Hi Cowboy,
At present, I am writing a booklet for a friend of mine refuting the tithe from a biblical perspective. I am making it as “robust” as I can. After that, Lord willing, I will be taking my research and putting it into a meaty book. If you are interested in either the booklet or the book against the mandatory tithe, you can contact me. My personal email is: davidmackin@intheworld.org.
May 27th, 2007 at 12:17 pm
if wat he said about wat we should do isn’t wat organic christianity is than do u propose that wat u are doing rite now is orgainc?
May 27th, 2007 at 2:49 pm
If there is one thing that has shocked me about this blog it is the complete lack of spelling ability in Seattle’s youth.
Pitiful.
I had to read that last comment about 3 times to understand what they were trying to say.
May 27th, 2007 at 7:08 pm
Wow, that is just sad. It does seem to be a problem for those who defend Judah Smith. Interesting.
May 29th, 2007 at 5:19 am
lern2spel on teh interwebs! werd
And to address his comment:
Organic
- developing in a manner analogous to the natural growth and evolution characteristic of living organisms; arising as a natural outgrowth.
I’d say this blog is very “organic” in that it is the natural outgrowth of decades of people fed up with poor doctrine and false teaching. If churches like CBC and CCC shovel enough manure, eventually everyone will be able to smell it. You can only pretend it smells like roses for so long…
May 29th, 2007 at 7:53 am
Communication among the younger set often includes ‘text messaging’ with a cell phone. This is OK for a quick comment, but thoughtful discourse requires more effort.
If you are really “concerned”, make a better effort.
June 2nd, 2007 at 1:11 pm
whatHEsaid: I have a question to ask you if you don’t mind–could you email me at my personal email address? davidmackin@intheworld.org Thanks!