Odds ‘n’ Ends
Posted on October 23rd, 2006 by Samaritan into the Uncategorized categoryListening to Judah's first 2 'Organic Christianity' messages produced more blog fodder than could be written in a single post. Here's a few odds 'n' ends from my sermon notes - some obvious contradictions and a few funnies.
In all the messages by Judah I've heard so far, he has stated, as if read from a queue card:
"We at GC believe the Bible is the Inspired word of God even to the very choice of words - we stake our entire existence on this book Genesis to Revelation - it is our life."
The statement gives me gas on several levels; the Bible is not the basis of our life and existence. Jesus is. Amazingly, Judah even cited the vine and branches scripture in part 2 of the message, where Jesus said "apart from me you can do nothing." Jesus did not say "apart from the Bible you can do nothing."
There's also something about the phrase "to the very choice of words" that bothers me. It seems to emphasize a translation over the original manuscripts. With dozens of english translations, all different, how can it be said that the Bible is inspired "to the very choice of words", when the translators can't even agree?
In part 2 of the message, Judah talked about prayer and right living. He cited the example of someone who came to him crying that he prayed and prayed with out any answers, yet observed others who barely prayed at all and got prompt answers. So Judah 'investigated' and found the root of the problem. The guy wasn't tithing.
Judah's solution (aside from tithing?) He said:
"Let's let the Bible wash us again"
Now we all know from Judah's Waterpot sermon a few weeks ago that he's a "shower guy" and loves the feeling of water cascading down his naked body. But washing with the Bible? Uh, no thanks Judah, I'll stick with my loofah.
In the just plain funny department, Judah was plugging the Gathering and said they would be giving away free glo-glasses like the ones Screech wore on Saved by the Bell. Judah said he might even preach in glo-glasses. Judah did not mention whether Screech wore glo-glasses in his new porn video.
I visited the GC web site again this morning and was horrified to see "Organic Christianity - Part 3". Trilogies are popular to be sure, but let's face it, Judah is NO George Lucas. The first 30 minutes of part 2 was a recap of part 1. I plan to listen, but not for a few days; a guy's spirit can only take so much religious abuse. I need to veg-out with something less violent - like ice hockey or something.
Admittedly, there is something about mining blog fodder from a Judah Smith sermon that is reminiscent of fishing at a trout farm. There's not much sport when they're jumping into the boat. You know?
Sam
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October 23rd, 2006 at 6:49 am
You use a loofah?
October 23rd, 2006 at 7:20 am
Truly, Sam you do not understand the process. Most of the CBC staff know how, and PF is the master. Let me enlighten you:
First you preach a multi-part message, 8 or 9 parts is good.
Then you have your secretary transcribe said messages. Next, you have it edited into book form.
Spend some time to write opening and closing chapters.
Get your cronies to write book reviews for you. If you can get a “big name” to write a 2-3 page introduction, even better.
Hire a graphic artist to get a really “edgy” cover.
Have the book published. It might not make the cut in a regular publishing house, but no worries — you own your own publishing house!
Have your cadres sell the book at all the conferences. If you can make a package with CD’s, you can get more $$$.
Just thought you might want to know.
October 23rd, 2006 at 8:08 am
Frank’s propensity for counting is kind of Sesame Streetish.
Anna, my friend David Benrexi used to work in the Christian publishing business, where he got a real eye-opening. Between the publishers and book store chains, anything that differs from main-stream religion or has the potential to offend religious leaders or believers, is not published or distributed. Never really thought about it before David’s comments, but then recalled I’ve never seen a book at a Christian book store that refuted the tithe, for example.
Where David’s comments really shocked me, was some books aren’t even written by the credited author - rather the real author paid to use the name the book was published under. I had no idea and David didn’t indicate how widespread the practice is.
Anyhow - you might get a kick out of a song David recorded called Cheerful Giver - it’s a hoot. It echoes your comments, Anna.
October 23rd, 2006 at 9:42 am
Great song — thanks!
October 24th, 2006 at 11:20 pm
Luv your comments Anna –so true I can’t tell you and I personally know of a writer who was hinted at/asked to be a ‘ghost writer for their pastor’
interesting that you now like the term ghost!
October 24th, 2006 at 11:24 pm
As long as you stay a hidden entity in your gifts and talents thats all that matters.
October 25th, 2006 at 3:46 pm
I was asked to ghost-write for my pastor’s wife. We had several meetings but the project fell to the wayside.
I think it’s a bum deal for the ghost-writer, BUT it’s not just done in Christian circles. It’s a pretty standard practice in publishing.
What’s worse is when you’re asked to write emails for your pastor to keep in touch with folks. Folks you’ve never met. That one was a bit confusing to me.
I made it fun though. Once I was down, wished for a word of encouragement from my pastor, wrote my own email in his name and sent it to myself. Strange thing is that it really did make me feel better.
KM
October 25th, 2006 at 11:38 pm
Kari, i swear you are from my town.
October 26th, 2006 at 5:41 am
TCR,
Pretty sure I’m not. But it’s interesting how similar the “disease” is.
KM
October 26th, 2006 at 8:09 am
KM, what you described is identical. When I attended there (years and years) the whole entourage thing we had to endure (you mentioned on another post) was a real eye roller even then. I used to think they weren’t able to hide their vast insecurity. That whole pack mentality never did settle well with me because of what it said to the rest of the sweet ‘little’ people who PAID MONEY to go through the dysfunction. What is said was: the pastor and his family were the selected and elected by God and his plans for them were more special than anyone elses.
Another weird thing was the High Ones would descend to our level when they felt like it kind of like the sun was shining on you for awhile. But whenever the guest visitors would come, the sun would go behind the clouds and they would look right through you like you were no longer existing which felt like a dark fog. This also happened when we had to go visiting cbc or city church in Kirkland. Our group sat off somewhere else while the Big Dogs sat in their pack together. The last few years that changed when number 2 guy and wife arranged to save seating for us with the Big Dogs so they could no longer detatch from us. BTW, number 2 couple no longer attends the church either.
We all finally woke up when the real Son illulminated the darkness. Even though we detested the beforesaid behavior we were locked into thinking we were supposed to stay. The truth sets you free indeed. I wish we could rescue the others. Maybe this is why we blog. Not only does it purge, it throws out a line?
October 26th, 2006 at 8:34 am
Thanks for the response, KM. You are so right. You and emigre both describe a disease. When I have the freedom to, I actually feel sorry for the ‘big dogs’ emigre mentions and pray for them. Those types of feelings surface at the oddest times. But for the most part, I no longer have the energy to pray for them because we had to pray for them every day for so long. I feel I put my time in! It IS nice to know I’m able to pray for them periodically when the Spirit moves me to. See, I’m not offended–at least, not ALL the time!
October 26th, 2006 at 8:39 am
Believe it or not, THAT was what the ‘heads are going to roll’ comment was about when Big Dog said that to his staff: when he said ‘if prayer isn’t kept going while we are gone, some heads are going to roll.’ (bark-grrrrrowl-snarl)(drool)
October 26th, 2006 at 3:03 pm
Yes, I felt the whole “called to stay” thing too. I was at the church for 9 years. The first year was really rough, the 2nd-5th pretty good, the last 4 or so awful.
About the 3rd or 4th year, we lost a big chunk of the core. Mass exit of leadership, etc. I wasn’t privy to the whole discussion, but it had to do with a “Christian pyramid” scheme outside the church that a lot of the members including leadership got involved in. The eldership felt that the church should take an official stand against members participating in it. The pastors felt that people should decide for themselves. (Which I agree with, although it blew me away how many people fell for it.)
It also had to do with the music minister being laid off (with wife and 4 kids) and the pastor’s daughter who was the youth pastor keeping her position. Some elders left due to all of this, and others saw the writing on the wall and “moved” or were “called” elsewhere.
The church was never the same after that. During my time in this place, I developed an ulcer, hypothyroidism. severe depression, and a blood clot on my lung. I struggled for years about whether or not to leave.
I felt I would be leaving my “destiny” to leave this church and that my spiritual life would be over.
So glad I got out.
KM
October 26th, 2006 at 4:01 pm
Wow Kari. Did any of your symptoms clear up after leaving? I would expect the ulcer, depression and blood clot to be gone now. Hypothyroidism is usually life long - hope you’ve gotten help with synthroid, etc.
Sam
October 26th, 2006 at 4:44 pm
Kari we so emphathize with you!! Our background is so similar its amazing
even down to the part of losing a Worship Leader with that size of family.
If this is a plan to destroy people’s faith it has been found effective-fortunately
there is One more powerful and He can use something as out there like a blog
to bring revelation and healing.
Were you on staff or close to it —thats where it hurts and most and the
people reading this who are in the middle of it will never believe it can happen to them or their hope shaken until it is their turn up for bat.
How else could we have gotten out unless we were shaken to the core. Its not really our faith that was shaken but the position the leaders had in our hearts –all intern– generation c types out there beware of placing your leaders on a pedestal or throne.
We’ve found the Lord will not allow it for long –sooner or later it comes crashing down and you are left with a choice—
choose who you will follow them or Me. I pray eyes are opened here.
October 26th, 2006 at 4:46 pm
Thats true –now how do I get my leader’s voice out of my head.
it resurfaces at the strangest times and in certain situations! Usually negative.
October 26th, 2006 at 4:59 pm
It helps to sing a really strange song like:
He was a one-eyed one-horned flyin’ purple people-eater … or … yes, we have no bananas, we have no bananas to day …
October 27th, 2006 at 5:24 am
Yeah, things are cleared up. Thanks for asking. I don’t think I’m depressed anymore–but I have little use for this world anymore. I’d love to go get killed as a martyr in Ecuador. Then I could give God glory and still go home.
October 27th, 2006 at 5:27 am
PS. I wasn’t on “leadership” till the end. But, my pastors considered my part of their family, so I was at their home a lot and knew most everything going on.
October 27th, 2006 at 8:04 am
Hi KM ~
One of the prevailing myths in Charasmatic Christian culture seems to be that depression should only be treated spiritually — claiming Bible verses and staying involved in your church and obedience and all that. But if depression is caused by a chemical imbalance of some sort, it should be treated with a medication according to the need, without a stigma attached to it. Sometimes people need it just to get over some hurdles and then can be reevaluated later and go off of the med. I have some Christian friends who have a better life when they are on their medication. I’m only mentioning this because thoughts of martydom in Ecquador could be sign you still suffer from depression. It could be something to look into if you haven’t already.
Also, I just want to say thank you for your openess on this blog. Like Free at Last already mentioned, we empathize with what you’ve gone through and it’s helped us feel less isolated in what we’ve gone through.
Here’s to healing for all of us and to helping others as they come into more reality!
October 27th, 2006 at 8:57 am
Part 3 contained little repitition / recap from parts 1 and 2. Judah preached from the Beattitudes (Matthew 5), about being salt and light.
The only observation I have of this particular sermon, is the way Judah (and for that matter most every long-winded story-telling charismatic televangelist type preacher) can drag out a simple point for 10-20 minutes, with fanfare, bravado, teasing, anecdotes and side-tracking, etc.
I once lamented the 15-20 minute long sermons I grew up with as boring, but they are far better than a 50 minute long sermon that repeats a simple slogan until the listener screams for mercy:
Talk about dumbed down - the message was like a religious-themed infomercial.
Sam
October 27th, 2006 at 2:03 pm
I’m only mentioning this because thoughts of martydom in Ecquador could be sign you still suffer from depression.
You think? Thanks TCR for the TLC. One of the things my church did right was to encourage me to go on medication. I had the same “super-spiritual” kind of attitude about it, but once I found my drug of choice (Celexa), I understood. I had tried St. John’s Wort but it didn’t work for me.
Celexa was like the missing “piece” and I began to see how truly physical it was. I started a class on anxiety and depression at my current church, but it wasn’t a balanced view so I stopped after the first session.
I’m glad my stories help other people. I know that when I found this website it was like a goldmine, and very therapeutic. I’m still always surprised though to hear of other churches like my former one.
Thanks for the input.
KM
October 27th, 2006 at 2:20 pm
KM,
Do you suffer from Seasonal Adaptive Disorder? The PNW is nasty for that.
Sam
October 28th, 2006 at 6:51 am
Sam,
I don’t think so. I grew up in Alaska and I kinda like the overcast days.
KM
October 29th, 2006 at 8:51 am
I do hope that all these dysfunctional churches are represented on this discussion group.
I’ve “been there, done that” myself in a church with controlling leadership and the “in crowd” vs. “out crowd.”
At the time, I pined to be a part of the insiders. I was friends with some leaders and held out constant hope that I would be inivted into the inner circle.
At some point, I woke up and said: Owah Tagoo Siam!
Or, translated: “Oh, what a goose I am!”
I can’t imagine that God is pleased to have such divisions and manipulations in his church.
Thanks for the openness from KM and others who have seen and been freed from these scenarios.
I hope this is not a widespread thing to have such dysfunction in God’s local churches.
However, in the midst of it all, people are still coming to know Christ.
As Martha says: “That’s a good thing.”
October 30th, 2006 at 12:47 am
Hi CO~
The thing is I wonder how many people ARE coming to Christ in these dysfunctional churches? Their focus is so on themselves that reaching out to ‘the lost’ doesn’t seem to be the priority like the churches who have chosen not to complicate the message of grace and salvation. And if they were to come to Christ, would it be good to be induced into an environment of legalism and authoritarianism? I guess if it gets them in the door to heaven so to speak, but what of the quality of life here on earth?
Do share if you know something statistically that would help us see that people are giving their lives to Christ in these churches.
Also, can you clarify your comment:
I’m wondering if you mean that you hope they comment on the blog too to represent themselves or are you wondering if we are representing them accurately? thanks for any clarity you can offer
October 30th, 2006 at 1:16 am
Ok Kari, just no going off to Ecquador before your time OK?!
I agree about this blog being a goldmine in many ways, including it can fend off the depression somewhat, with all the funny stuff, don’t you think?
October 30th, 2006 at 6:10 am
TCR Said:
Concerning our investments here on earth, people should ask the simple question “will it burn?”
1 Corinthians 3:11-15 GNB
(11) For God has already placed Jesus Christ as the one and only foundation, and no other foundation can be laid.
(12) Some will use gold or silver or precious stones in building on the foundation; others will use wood or grass or straw.
(13) And the quality of each person’s work will be seen when the Day of Christ exposes it. For on that Day fire will reveal everyone’s work; the fire will test it and show its real quality.
(14) If what was built on the foundation survives the fire, the builder will receive a reward.
(15) But if your work is burnt up, then you will lose it; but you yourself will be saved, as if you had escaped through the fire.
Over the weekend, I watched a video clip on CNN.com about the Prosperity Gospel - it featured Creflo Dollar (Cashflow Creflo) and Joel Osteen - they featured a formerly broke member who now has a nice house and cars, and panned the parking lot which is filled with new vehicles, and a row of Mercedes that has been roped off from the main lot … there was a scene where Cashflow Creflo calls for the offering as “Opportunity for Prosperity time” while the people cheer wildly.
There are gonna be more than a few slack-jawed church goers in Atlanta, Houston, Portland, et al, on the Day of the Lord, as they watch ALL they’ve worked for go up in flames.
Sad, ain’t it?
Sam