Miracle Seed; Miracle Harvest II
Posted on November 16th, 2006 by catalyst into the City Boobie Church categoryI just finished listening to the latest Faith Harvest sermon and since I can't break it down as well as JP, I'm just going to share some of the highlights. Basically, what I learned about Faith Harvest.
Sermon Highlights
-Frank starts off telling the congregation he's going to teach us how to give? (This is good. Because I was home-schooled. So I'm excited to find out about this "giving" concept. )
-I really want to be a great giver. (Frank told me tell someone; so I'm telling you.)
-The sin of stinginess is keeping me from being a great giver. (This is actually true.)
-God wants us to be liberal and generous people. (Unless, of course, that liberalism involves supporting Gay Marriage. )
-God isn't El-Cheapo. He's El-Shadhai; the Great Provider. Frank claims some people see God as El-Cheapo. (This is called a strawman argument. State a false position and then knock it down. The point is, I don't know anyone who thinks of God as El-Cheapo. Seriously, I've never head that in my life before.)
-When you serve God your life will get better. (Unless your name is Job from the Bible.)
-Frank tells the congregation, "You're a special person." (So, I've been told. Thank you.)
-Frank and Sharon started giving to the poor 30 years ago. Before they new the scriptures that said you should give to the poor. He believes in giving to the poor because it means God will bless you. He sounds truly impressed with himself. As though, this is something special. (Yeah Frank, it's called empathy.)
-Frank gives examples of how he and his wife helped people. They used to pick out a single mother, not a single father, to bless. According to Frank, the single fathers can take care of themselves. (I apologize to everyone for my language, but what an asshole.)
-He doesn't like talking to people about their offerings. (Then please explain your 14 week tithing sermon marathon that drove half the congregation away.)
-Sometimes your seed it tested. It doesn't always just work automatic. But if you keep sowing your seed. It will eventually happen. (Snort. I think he means, Keep giving me money, even if you remain poor. God will eventually bless you.)
-Kevin Federline is from Pendleton Oregon. (I didn't actually hear this from Frank. But at about this point in the sermon I got bored and started cruising through Perez Hilton and found out that K-Fed grew up in Pendleton. Amazing. I did not know this. But seriously, this explains a lot.)
-Jonny Appleseed is like the Messiah. (Frank actually did say this.)
-Frank puts a dollar amount on Faith, Great Faith and Miracle Faith. A Faith Goal is $650,000. A Great Faith goal is beyond $650,000. A Miracle Faith Goal is a million dollars. (I almost admire him at this point. He clearly doesn't care what the Bible says. He's just making it up as he goes along. )
My conclusion: You know what, if you're dumb enough to believe this, then you deserve to lose your money. Read the Book of Job people. Seriously, read the Book of Job.
Update
FICM gives us a quick illustration of what Miracle Faith and One Million Dollars might look like:
"ONE MILL-YEE-YUN DOLL-ARSSSSSSSSS!"
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November 16th, 2006 at 7:25 am
Well, that answered my earlier question on how to define Miracle Faith.
“ONE MILL-YEE-YUN DOLL-ARSSSSSSSSS!” /holds pinky finger next to his mouth
November 16th, 2006 at 7:41 am
One Million Dollars!
November 16th, 2006 at 8:24 am
OMG FICM! LOL!
November 16th, 2006 at 8:40 am
That is great! Hold on a second, while I try to fit in the blog.
November 16th, 2006 at 9:08 am
I think we can all agree that is the funniest picture ever.
November 16th, 2006 at 9:13 am
Thanks! I’m no Photoshop guru by any stretch of the imagination (I’m actually a bit embarrassed about the hack job), but I was inspired.
Now all we need is someone to put together a YTMND page using this picture and a quote from the podcast where he actually says “one million dollars” (lisp and all).
November 16th, 2006 at 9:14 am
El-Cheapo????
Seriously people (members of CBC)… you are all better than this. For crying out loud, have a little self respect, you attend the 3rd or 4th largest church in the city, demand better.
On a side note, excellant summation Catalyst…you are right “He clearly doesn’t care what the Bible says. He’s just making it up as he goes along. ”
It is just sad.
November 16th, 2006 at 9:22 am
I was checking out your link to the Straw Man definition and I found it quite interesting:
It goes on to say:
I find it interesting that Frank’s opponent seems to be the Bible…
November 16th, 2006 at 10:42 am
Where has Frank had his hand that it is so pink?!?
November 16th, 2006 at 10:45 am
This whole ‘miracle seed’/miracle harvest stuff sounds more like the story
of Jack and the Beanstalk than anything from the bible. I say this this after being involved for a long time there. Folks, if you keep on doing the same things over and over and expect a different result, what does that make you…..?
And finally, NO! I will NOT read the book of Job! I’m sick of Old Testament proof texting. We have better things to do. Here are a couple:
Matt. 11:29 “Take My yoke upon you, and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart; and you shall find rest for your souls. :30 “For My yoke is easy, and My load is light.”
Hebrews 1:1-3, “God, after He sooke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portons and in many ways, in these last days has spoken to us in HIS SON whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world. And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power.”
Try taking a sheet of paper and drawing a line down the middle. list one side “Things to do, and the other side Things not to do. Then go through the gospels and see what JESUS said to do and not to do. Very simple, but it will set you free of a lot of O.T. rubbish and doctrines of men.
November 16th, 2006 at 10:52 am
Alright. It was just a suggestion. I just think the Book of Job kind of disproves the theory that God will only bless you if you do the right thing.
November 16th, 2006 at 11:04 am
In people’s wallets, of course! (Or would that make it green?)
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. ~Benjamin Franklin
November 16th, 2006 at 11:06 am
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. ~Benjamin Franklin
Yeah! So let’s blog some more!
November 16th, 2006 at 11:19 am
This is the greatest -if only you could do this with every sermon
out there that is way off the mark! keep going
November 16th, 2006 at 11:42 am
How strange. The example he sets is of a man who always TAKES.
November 16th, 2006 at 11:45 am
I went overboard again!
I had to apologize a couple days ago, and I need to again. I’m sorry catalyst, I shouldn’t have blasted you like that.
By the way, Great Job on the picture!
November 16th, 2006 at 4:30 pm
There are 63 posts in ‘Miracle Seed’ The last one by Jona really made me hurt. I have gone to a ‘cell’ group in Joe Sr. house near the Beaumont market. I know both Joey and Jona. To think of a young couple starting out giving up that much is just ….pain.
If you two give to Jesus as much as you gave to a worldly vision, you will have a large mansion on the other side! See Matt. 25:34-40.
Peace!
Please invite me for dinner! Luke 16:9
November 17th, 2006 at 9:24 am
The Pic of Yankee Frankee is way to funny!
December 20th, 2006 at 7:36 am
[…] I had pretty much sworn off all City sermons after the last couple I listened to condemned single fathers, put a dollar amount on faith and ripped off a Garth Brooks song. […]
February 7th, 2007 at 6:03 pm
I have been going to CBC for about 9 years (last couple of years my attendance is sporadic at best for reasons relating to school, etc). I started dating the “best man ever” (I am shameless on this topic) in October and he asked if he could come to church with me sometime. He is not a self proclaimed Christian though he believes in God and the teachings of Christ and is the best “Christian” I know. I have never met anyone — EVER — who makes a such a conscious effort to be actively kind and compassionate to everyone that he comes into contact with from the cashier at the grocery store to the random (often frightening) transient.
ANYWAY…he had never been to a charistmatic church before — he had only experienced Catholic churches and churches that are much…quieter and/or serious/morose/not joyful. His most poignant experiences were at a Unitarian church camp — and Unitarian beliefs are what he most strongly identifies with. He was in awe/shock from the moment we walked in the door which was funny. But the whole time I was just hoping and praying that nothing would happen to offend him.
The Sunday that we went was the one with this particular Faith Harvest message. Now, I am all for giving, and giving when it hurts whether it be money, time, emotion, whatever. And when it comes to tithing I haven’t studied enough to know how I feel/think specifically about that. But how can anyone put a specific number goal on an offering? I was OK with the sermon and am use to PF’s little anecdotes — admittedly I have a soft spot for him as his children are my friends and they have been like family to me. But the second he said that their was a Faith Harvest GOAL — I was completely mortified. I was embarrassed that I had exposed my boyfriend to something that was initially positive and uplifting and then turned out to be something quite different. An offering should come from the heart — and there is no knowing in what way God is going to inspire someone to give. On top of which, forget the dollar amount — who says that someone’s “Faith Harvest” offering should go to the church? What if they were to invest it in a family that they knew personally and was in need of aide? Would God still bless them for their compassion? And then again — there is the issue raised of whether we should always be expecting a blessing of the same sort in return from God.
I was sorry that one of the first times I brought my boyfriend to church the word ended up being about a silly monetary goal.
This is not as well expressed as I would like — but I am still at work and tired of sitting in this chair. I will stop now.
February 7th, 2007 at 9:32 pm
Just thinking –you expressed it very well! What a sheer dissapointment it was to your heart when you are hoping your friend would hear the gospel message.
My advice is to run to another real church where they keep the main thing the main thing –like the gospel.
Good barometer –what outreach do they do for the city –do they care for and love the poor –how about do they even love people not riches. Wow -what a concept.
I don’t know what they are building there but it isn’t a church –a quote from my now pastor –I couldn’t have said it any better. Run don’t walk to the nearest exit –your own spirit led you here and is telling you its not the real deal.
February 8th, 2007 at 7:51 am
[…] Fittingly, here is a comment from a long time member of CBC, who still likes the church, but was embarrassed when she brought her boyfriend to a Faith Harvest Sermon. The Sunday that we went was the one with this particular Faith Harvest message. […]
February 8th, 2007 at 9:15 am
I do still like the church although I do feel frustrated with certain things — not really with a person in particular but with a general mindset that is insular and extremely exclusive. Expressing doubt and questioning things is met with disapproval — and I am of the belief that religion should not constitute repression (although I think there is an element of that in most religions).
Right now I am at a place where I understand that nothing is perfect and that no matter where you (the Royal you) go, there will always be things, people, situations, etc that run against the grain of what you think and who you are. Right now I am dealing with the backlash of having a relationship with someone who is not a professed Christian and I understand the concern and why some people are upset — but it is still difficult to feel even more like I am on the periphery when for so long I felt as though I was in the thick of it. But I am growing and learning like crazy and my faith has never been stronger and I now understand that I am responsible for my relationship with God and can no longer let the church bridge that gap for me…and that is wonderful.
Still, I am not ready to leave (and if I ever do, it will NOT be in anger). I know many people who are still my intimate friends and who have shown me nothing but love, compassion and support and they are avid CBCers — they are what give me hope. But PF has talked to me three times about my choice and his approach is definitely not the best way to even get me thinking about what he might have to say (mostly an attempt to provoke guilt and fear). That has been hurtful — I wish he would just sit down and talk to me about his concerns (I am willing to listen to anyone even if I know I won’t like what they will say) instead of throwing out comments that shake me up. I have grace for him though because I know of particular extenuating circumstances in his own life and that he cares for me like/sees me as a daughter and so would react to my actions more emotionally as a father than as a pastoral figure.
I don’t want anyone to take what I have said about him and use it as some sort of ammo — I would defend that man strongly. I know his children and I have spent time with them in the privacy of their home and he is a GOOD father. His children adore him — not because he has some sort of control over them but because he LOVES them unconditionally. I have watched him put his family first and heard at least one of his children say that the reason they even still have faith that there is a God is because of their father and the love he has shown them.
I have been reading this blog like crazy since yesterday and a lot of people wonder why we hold our pastors to a higher standard. I think it is a balance — anyone in a position of leadership should be held accountable by the people that they are leading. With great power comes great responsibility (props to Uncle Ben). It is true that leaders are held to a higher standard — and they should be. Yes, a high profile pastor should be given grace just as much as the least known member of a congregation — BUT that grace is of love: recognizing that they are human just like us and remembering that our faith should be in God and not in man and MAYBE that is why we are upset in the first place–because we allowed our faith to become too focused on man. It does not mean that they should continue to lead (I am thinking of the criminal activites spoken of in other posts), but love and forgiveness and compassion should be extended to them just the same as it would be extended to the poor, hurt and alone. No more and no less — just the same.
February 8th, 2007 at 10:20 am
JT –have you ever thought that why so many on here on disappointed from the weakness of focusing on one man or leader or human being is being it is the way that these churches have been set up –to be Senior Pastor driven and focused.
It is not that way at every other church out there -though that is the predominant model. I would have said the very same thing 2 yrs ago as the church was my entire world –however God has a way of turning your world upside down if He wants to and its in your best interest. You have no idea how much you are leaning on people you have known for a long time instead of the Lord. Just some food for thought from a person who was as ‘in there’ as you could be.