American Sex
Posted on December 22nd, 2006 by Reformed Pope into the Uncategorized categoryAccording to a recent AP article on pre-marital sex, most Americans "get busy" before they "get hitched".
More than nine out of 10 Americans, men and women alike, have had premarital sex, according to a new study.
The study, examining how sexual behavior before marriage has changed over time, was based on interviews conducted with more than 38,000 people - about 33,000 of them women - in 1982, 1988, 1995 and 2002 for the federal National Survey of Family Growth. According to Finer's analysis, 99 percent of the respondents had had sex by age 44, and 95 percent had done so before marriage.
Even among a subgroup of those who abstained from sex until at least age 20, four-fifths had had premarital sex by age 44, the study found.
Now, I don't want to tell you that we are all going to burn in hell, but… can someone explain to me again why "we" are so much "more deserving" of heaven then homosexuals? Kinda sounds like the Pot calling the Kettle gay, if you ask me.
"The data clearly show that the majority of older teens and adults have already had sex before marriage, which calls into question the federal government's funding of abstinence-only-until-marriage programs for 12- to 29-year-olds," Finer said.
Under the Bush administration, such programs have received hundreds of millions of dollars in federal funding.
"It would be more effective," Finer said, "to provide young people with the skills and information they need to be safe once they become sexually active - which nearly everyone eventually will."
Sex-Ed… this reminds me of a family story. While it's true that I did pass out once and piss my car (and self), my younger brother Joel once passed out during Sex-Ed. Apparently, he couldn't handle seeing a condom being wrapped around a banana. Joel if you are reading this…penis…STD…vagina…and he's out.
Moving on:
Horn said he found the high percentages of premarital sex cited in the study to be plausible, and expressed hope that society would not look askance at the small minority that chooses to remain abstinent before marriage.
However, Janice Crouse of Concerned Women for America, a conservative group which strongly supports abstinence-only education, said she was skeptical of the findings.
"Any time I see numbers that high, I'm a little suspicious," she said. "The numbers are too pat."
I've never been one to put too much stock in statistics, but it sounds about right (not in our churches of course…).
December 22nd, 2006 at 10:27 am
JP:
Nice Post. I wonder where this was YESTERDAY?!!
You remember Wednesday, when you sent me this article and said you were going to post it. Only to follow up and instead post that ridiculous apology. Nice bait and switch.
You also realize that you have an absolutely abysmal track record when dealing with the Pastors at CBC. The current score is:
CBC Pastors: 5
JP: 0
I hate to break this to you, but ummm, this isn’t an actual church we have here. It’s a blog. And you’re not a pastor. You’re a guy who writes the occassional sermon recap (which I love, don’t get me wrong, I love them).
And of course we offend people. Who cares! I’ts a blog. It’s not a church.
And you’re apologizing to people who use their positions of power to manipluate other people into giving them money. And yes, the pastors are nice guys. But so are used car salesmen. And I don’t hear them apologizing for all the people they’ve ripped off.
Please stop talking to the Pastors at CBC. I can’t take it anymore. It’s killing me over here.
-Justin
December 22nd, 2006 at 12:42 pm
I also posted Matching Game yesterday.
Which shows a score of:
Dishwasher: 1
Justin: 0
December 22nd, 2006 at 2:58 pm
I don’t really understand your obsession with the plight of homosexuals…. you must have some very close friends who are gay, or maybe…????
I dunno, but if you really care about those who engage in this particular behavior or any other that God has clearly judged as wrong, then I believe the most loving, the most considerate, the most compassionate thing you could do for them is to warn them of the wrath to come. You’ld look like a real jerk if you stood if front of your friend’s burning house without trying to save him/her….:o)
It is not ‘real’ Christians who have it out for homosexuals, GOD is the One Who listed homosexuality right in the midst of a long list of behaviors that will produce death. Do you really think that you will convince Him that He was mistaken or had a serious lack of understanding in deciding what acts of the flesh were sinful?
He’s the one you need to take your dissatisfaction up with, not those who simply trust that what He says is true, and are willing to look as foolish as He did 2000 years ago hanging on a cross to die an agonizing death for the very acts we try to make light of or excuse today. Those witnesses whose love for humanity goes beyond the fear of rejection in their willingness to preach the Truth that sets sinners free from fleshly bondages that will ultimately bring death. They understand that if they are ashamed of the Son of God in this world, the Son will be ashamed of them when He stands before His Heavenly Father. Their hope is beyond this world which is passing away as a vapor….
Your ‘love’ or ‘compassion’ for your friends is only self–serving if you think that you are going to convince God to ‘let them off the hook’. If their eyes meet yours across the casm of death on the Great and Terrible Day, they will no longer think that you were as good of a friend as you think you are by supporting or making excuses for their behavior that they are now doomed for.
“Friends don’t let friends go to Hell….”
)
December 22nd, 2006 at 4:48 pm
1 Cor 6:9-11
9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
This appears to be a very hard concept for self-righteous Christians to grasp. You see, while it clearly states that homosexual offenders will not inherith the kingdom of God it also states that idolatry, greed, and slander will also keep us from the kingdom.
So for the 1,000th time, this is my point:
I slander, I get greedy, and I have idols in my life, but I sure want to believe that I am going to be in heaven. So, based on that, why can’t homosexuals make it as well.
The problem for me is that Christians are so hypocritical when it comes to dealing with homosexuals. I AM NOT SAYING THAT IT IS OK TO LIVE A LIFE OF HOMOSEXUALITY, however it is also not ok to live a life full of idolitry and how many of us (honestly) can say that we have no idols in our life?
I just want to put it in perspective.
The Christian church has failed miserably in their treatment of the gay community. It makes me sick and this is my blog so I can bring it up as much as I want… if you don’t like it, take your ball and go home.
December 22nd, 2006 at 4:49 pm
“I dunno, but if you really care about those who engage in this particular behavior or any other that God has clearly judged as wrong, then I believe the most loving, the most considerate, the most compassionate thing you could do for them is to warn them of the wrath to come. You’ld look like a real jerk if you stood if front of your friend’s burning house without trying to save him/her….:o)”
Perhaps you should send Christmas cards to all the non-christians you know who have lost an unsaved loved one in the last year and remind them that they will be burning in hell with their loved one if they don’t accept Christ. You know, wouldn’t want to let them burn in their house and all.
December 22nd, 2006 at 5:40 pm
The argument about the burning house is so lame. If you truely viewed the world in that situation, most people would never stop witnessing. It would consume all of their time. Those who believe that all “non-belivers” are going to hell ought to be ashamed of taking even a brief break from trying to save others. I tend to use that poisonous gas example: If you knew the mall was full of poisonous gas and everyone who entered would die, how long would you stay at the front door, fighting off people to save their lives? The answer for me is “I would not give up as long as I had breath.” But for some reason, I as well as most others, do not constantly try to “save” others. Why is that? Is there a subconscious denial of the reality? or do we really not care enough…? Not sure, but to use another cliche, I would not throw rocks while living in the glass house, hungry!
December 22nd, 2006 at 5:41 pm
What we are talking about is imorallity, right?
When Jesus was confronted with this very issue how did he respond? He told the angry mob demanding justice “You who are without sin, cast the first stone” and he told the adulterous woman “Go and sin no more”.
We, in this specific case*, are not the adulterous woman, we are the mob. So…you who are without sin can cast all the stones at the homosexual community you want, the rest of us probably have better things to do.
If you are the adulterous woman…go and sin no more.
*Yes, I think the adulterous woman in this story represents us all and shows the grace we need in our lives; in fact it is one of my favorite Bible stories, but we can also learn from what Jesus said to the mob.
December 22nd, 2006 at 8:34 pm
I’m so sorry I offended you, JP, that sure wasn’t my intent….will you please forgive me?
I am just trying to understand why you think the Church’s treatment of homosexuals is so different from their treatment of any other sin. AA was founded by a Christian man to try to help drunkards get free from their ’sin’. When divorce was first becoming ‘popular’, they were rebuked. When ’shacking up’ was new, it was scandalous; whenever the latest moral step downward is being taken, the church has tried to stand for righteousness. *Sigh* Don’t worry, though, I’m sure it will get on board with the rest of ‘proper’ civilization as soon as the closet is empty, and it’s ‘old news’…:o)
I also am puzzled when you say comments like;
“This appears to be a very hard concept for self-righteous Christians to grasp. You see, while it clearly states that homosexual offenders will not inherith the kingdom of God it also states that idolatry, greed, and slander will also keep us from the kingdom.
So for the 1,000th time, this is my point:
I slander, I get greedy, and I have idols in my life, but I sure want to believe that I am going to be in heaven.”
I guess I wonder, what hope do you have to offer to those who are so entangled in the flesh for becoming a Christian? Do you just tell them that Jesus died for their sins, past present and future, (Which is true) so they can go ahead and live any way they please and still get to heaven? Is that what you think in your life?What do you do with verses like (Romans 6:1) which ask the very pointed question, “What shall we do then? do we continue in sin that grace may abound???
I’m sorry I’m too dull to grasp your 1,000th point, maybe 1001?
)
Or, if you prefer, I could take my ball and go home…alas…..
December 22nd, 2006 at 10:49 pm
I have a story to tell. It’s a bit long, and I hesitate to even tell it, but please walk with me through it.
I used to have a very expensive parrot named Bill. Bill was very smart; he spoke just like a person and was the brunt of many jokes, as well as the source of many laughs. But he took a lot of time out of my day–he needed a shower every morning, he needed time out of his cage and he could be very demanding. He threw food all over the kitchen and took a chunk of leather out of our sofa, but I still loved that little guy a whole lot. Still do.
When my wife and I found out we were expecting a baby, we took another look at priorities and figured it was neither in Bill’s best interest to jockey for our attention, nor was there room in our household for two babies who required so much attention.
I spoke with Bill’s avaian veterinarian about our situation and told her that if I found the right family, I’d just give Bill to them–for free. She told me she’d do some checking around.
A few days later, the good doctor called me up and told me she thought she had found someone. Now, this vet knew that I’m a Christian and she also knew that I was on staff at a church. She said to me, “I think I’ve found someone who would be a great family for Bill, but I’m afraid there might be a problem. It’s a couple of gay men who have a domestic partnership… do you think you’d have a problem with that? They’re experienced with parrots and I think they’d be terrific for Bill.”
I responded, “Do you think they would be able to give Bill the attention and care he needs?”
“Yes.”
“Okay, then, I don’t have a problem with it. Let’s have their number.”
I called these guys and they were very pleasant. Extremely pleasant! They wanted to come over right away and meet Bill, but one of them said he had a minor concern. He said he was ill and that he probably wouldn’t outlive Bill, and he asked that, if he passed away, would we be able to accept Bill back into our home.
What do you think went through my mind? AIDS.
I agreed and they came over to our house to meet Bill. They were very polite and we had a great visit. They were totally flaming gay! Not like pink feathers gay, but they were obviously gay. I was a bit uncomfortable, but I just felt like God had arranged this meeting and I immediately knew they would provide a great home for Bill, and that was most important to me.
They met Bill and of course loved him, but Bill didn’t so much care for them. He lashed out and bit the sick guy right on the nose! And so here’s this flaming gay guy–presumably with AIDS–spilling blood all over my kitchen!
Anyway, it was a very strange experience, but I just felt this overwhelming sense that it was going to be okay. I just knew that God had brought them here, that I was to give Bill to them, and that my wife and I were to be accepting toward them. They knew from the veterinarian that we are Christians and that I worked for a church. And I can only imagine that they were as apprehensive about knocking on our door as we were about letting them take Bill.
That was three years ago and to this day we are great friends with them. We just got a Christmas card from them the other day. We speak on the phone every so often and check up on Bill, who by the way is doing very well, and we email quite a bit.
Now, do I think homosexuality is a sin? Yes, I think the Bible is clear about that. Do I approve of their lifestyle? No. Do I think there’s a “gay agenda” that’s militant and angry and combative? Yes, I do (Rosie O’Donnell comes to mind). But my experience with these guys is that they’re not like that; they’re friendly, decent people for whom Christ died. Make no mistake; I definitely want them to have an encounter with God, and I hope it comes soon. But when we talk or email, the thing that’s at the forefront of my mind is NOT that I’m being nice to them with an ulterior motive. My objective is to show them the love of God and trust him to move in their lives.
Christians have a tendancy to want to be as brief and abrupt with “sinners” as we can because we want them to know that we don’t approve of their sin. I’ve done it before; I know what that looks like. We think we’re being good representatives of Christ when we’re rude with people because we want to show them that we’re different from them; that we’re holier than them.
But being abrupt with people doesn’t make us look holier than them; it makes us look like idiots.
Over time, we’ve had opportunities to talk with these guys about the love of God and about the goodness of God. They’ve told me many times, “Do you know how thankful we are for you? Do you know what a blessing Bill is to us? We’re so glad God brought you into our lives; Bill has totally changed our lives.”
And I try not to read too much into that; I don’t know where they are spiritually, but I don’t feel like it’s my responsibility to coerce them into getting saved. All I know is that I have an opportunity to show them the love of God and possibly change their minds about people who follow Christ. And maybe someday they’ll initiate a conversation that leads to their salvation. Who knows; maybe they’re already saved.
John 12:32 says, “…when I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw all men to myself.” That means it’s God’s job to draw these guys to himself; our job is to lift him up before them. And to know that he cares about them as much as he cares about us.
December 23rd, 2006 at 9:56 am
I cannot believe you got rid of Bill, he was such a cool bird! But it sounds like he’s being well taken care of.
December 23rd, 2006 at 9:58 am
The amount of intolerance for other people among christians really bothers me.
It’s very easy to point out that mote in other people’s eyes, rather than dealing with the beam in your own eye.
Besides, I want to know how many heterosexual christians put their wives in a hut during their menstrual cycles, or do not eat certain foods, or keep Kosher laws. or, God forbid (And he did) have sex with their wives when their wives are on their periods, or look on another person with lust, or… you know the list is endless…
but I wouldn’t want those sanctimonious so-called “Christians” to burn in their own house of cards, would I?
December 23rd, 2006 at 11:42 am
My heart burns for my family members and friends who will perish without the Truth, and I have talked to or even implored each of them at least once about eternal matters. Is that a terrible thing?
Those of you who mock the idea of loving the world enough to warn them of Gods Day of Judgement, what are you going to do when they die? Will you have to live with regret knowing in your heart that you had many opportunities to tell them about the most important thing in the world, but made excuses and lived in fear instead? believing the lie that it is ‘hate-mongering’ or ‘intolerant’ or ‘bigoted’? Or worse, that just because you aren’t perfect yet, you have no right to ‘condemn’? The Accuser is hard at work in the hearts of many….
Christians are not the ones who ‘condemn’, the world, anyway. God already has. Jesus came as a spotless Lamb the first time, but have you read your Bible enough to find out how He will return?
I’m sorry, but attacking ‘hypocritical’, ’self-righteous’, ‘intolerant’, ’sanctimonious’ so-called Christians is nothing but a smokescreen and a distraction from what our purpose and role is if we claim the Name of Christ as our own.
The worst thing that will happen to us if we do tell others about Christ is the possibility of rejection and persecution. Maybe they will laugh at you or mock you–at least in our country….they will kill you in certain others…”do not fear those who can kill the body but not the soul, but rather fear Him Who can destroy both soul and body in Hell” (BTW, I didn’t write that, God did) The worst thing that will happen to them is they will perish for eternity….Who has the greatest risk?
Do a few quacks cause you to dismiss every doctor? Does one bad pig cause you to disdain all officers of the law? Does one bad parent cause you to hate all forms of authority?
Why should a few abusive wolves and insensitive snakes who call themselves pastors or Christians, cause us to disassociate with Gods children and dismiss His great commission? We each will stand before Him to give an account of our life. Will we stand boldly knowing that we ‘always did the will of the Father?” Or will we be ashamed that we lived in fear and wasted so much of the precious time He has given us….
December 23rd, 2006 at 12:40 pm
Hungry Harbor, are you saying you think I’m wasting my time by being kind to these guys? what do you think leads to repentance? Here’s a hint: read Romans 2:4. I really don’t look back on my three year friendship with Bill’s adopters as wasted time.
December 23rd, 2006 at 1:14 pm
*Sigh*
Do you honestly think that I am saying you are wasting your time being kind to anyone in the world? Did you really come to that logical conclusion reading my post? Am I that terrible of a communicator that you think I just hate everyone except myself and can’t wait for Judgement to fall???? *Shakes head*
Here are a couple more verses for you; (2 Peter 3:9) (Matthew 18:14) (Jonah 4:10-11) (2 Corinthians 2:15) (Ecclesiastes 3:19)
December 23rd, 2006 at 1:18 pm
Sorry; my bad. My very, very bad. I misinterpreted your comments.
December 23rd, 2006 at 2:12 pm
Do you remember when the gay’s wanted to get married? Did you see how fast the church acted to shut that down? Name me one other sin the church would mobilize so quickly to shut down? Contrast that with how much time the church spends showing the homosexual community Christ’s love.
Immorality is often ignored in the church…unless it’s man on man, then the actions is swift. Gays are not allowed in many churches, but those who deal with pornography, lust, and other sexual sins are. There is a clear double standard.
I offer them the same gift which was given to me…grace. I feel it is my job to represent the heart of Christ as much as I can to those in sin. When was the last time someone was saved by being told they were going to hell?
Much of the gay community hates Christians because of how they have been treated. My point is not to say “It’s ok to be gay”, but to say “I don’t care what your issues are, Christ loves you anyway”.
I am no better than any other sinner out there (remember it only takes one sin to be a sinner). I want the gay community to know that Christ saved me despite my sins and he can do the same for them.
I don’t believe anger, hate, or judgement ever won anyone to Christ.
Of course it is not a terrible thing, but if it is not effective what should your next move be? I believe it is Christ who saves not me. All I can do is try to show people the same love I recieved from God and then believe that he will do the rest. I don’t think there is anything wrong with your approach, but I don’t see it as being all that effective.
People are going to die and they are going to burn. It has to be that way to show the judgement that sin deserves. It’s unfortunate but true (in my opinion). Despite this, I don’t think my “warning” would do much but anger them, so instead I show them love and hope that Christ chooses to save them.
Yes He has, but don’t act like Christians don’t condemn the world also. You may be called to rain down fire and brimstone… good luck with that. I’ll try love.
My attack is meant for those who condemn the world but do nothing to reach it. Those who accept divorce in their church but say that gay marrairge would ruin the sancitiy of marraige are hypocrites. I believe that American Christians have failed miserably to show the world love and instead have condemned them to make their sinfull lives feel better. This is wrong.
I am not sayinig you can’t tell people about Christ, what I am saying is that they probalby won’t listen to you if you tell them they are going to hell or else. Win people with the love of Christ and then we can get into the sinfull side of things.
This (from your first comment) is where we differ. I do not feel called by God to tell the homosexual community that they are going to hell…believe me they hear that from enough people already. My approach is to simply love them and treat them like every other sinfull or perfect person out there.
December 23rd, 2006 at 6:37 pm
You are correct.
More to the point, hatred, bigotry and condemnation drives people AWAY from Christ, if the person doing those things proclaims loudly:
“I am a CHRISTIAN, and YOU ARE GONNA BURN IN HELL!”
December 23rd, 2006 at 7:52 pm
Thank you, JP, for your thorough response. I appreciate your time and patience…
You won’t mind humoring me a wee bit more, would you? It’s good exercise for my simple mind….:o)
How about abortion clinics?
*sigh* You don’t see many porn freaks coming to church with their dirty magazines tucked in their back pocket–they generally know they shouldn’t be doing it and don’t want anyone else to discover their ’secret life’, the same with those who are living together or committing adultery–there is at least some conviction….NOT that we should ‘hide’ our sin, we should stop sinning..(1 John 3:8).but not everyone has the knowledge of God….
‘Many’, (not all, please make sure you note that
) homosexuals don’t consider their behavior ’sin’, they revel in it, flaunt it, they think God is winking at it, and they dare you to say something about it so they can scream “Homophobe!!!” “Bigot!!!” etc….
Is that what you feel when you are witnessing? *Bewildered* Me neither. I have no reason to be angry at the world, on the contrary, I am deeply concerned about them; If I hated them I wouldn’t care that they are damned for eternity-I would shrug my shoulders and let them burn; and finally, I am not the one who will be judging them, God will.
To continuing showing them the same love that prompted me to care about the state of their souls. No, that doesn’t mean raining down fire and brimstone on them every chance I get *wink*, but showing them the same love that I suppose you do; ministering, blessing, helping, being a friend….
Just telling sinners they are going to hell is definately an unreasonable judgement. Similarly, just ‘loving them’ and ‘getting them to come to church’, without telling them the truth about God’s hatred of sin is giving them a false sense of security about their eternal destiny.
If there is no conviction of sin, there is no reason for salvation. Salvation ONLY comes through repentance. Repentance is meaningless unless we understand that we have broken God’s law. Without the Law there is no knowledge of sin. If the world has no knowledge of sin, there is no reason to fear God’s wrath OR appreciate the perfect Sacrifice.
December 24th, 2006 at 7:28 am
Hello,
I really enjoy City Business Church blog! I visit everyday. It’s the Drudge Report then over to this site.
Wanted to get off topic and respond to what Catalyst/Justin said at the beginning.
If you apologize to CBC, it will fall on deaf ears. Please stop apologizing to CBC. It will have no effect. In their own minds it will confirm you are a wolf in sheeps clothing. It will allow CBC to feel superior and righteous. They will think you are finally coming around to acknowledging you were wrong to start this blog.
Are you sorry for being a healing instrument? Maybe for allowing others to know they are not alone for having a question about what is preached? Or bringing forward such topics as gays which is not allowed to be debated and should be? For letting intelligent folks to express their views and opinions?
Please, apologizing will do no good. It might make you feel better, but then they will squish you like a worm.
Keep up the good work! You have done far more good then harm!
Thank you for doing what you do! You are an excellent facilitator!
Laura
December 25th, 2006 at 4:57 pm
Apologing to people who do not admit that they had a part in the disagreement is futile.
December 26th, 2006 at 1:10 am
If we want to point fingers at people in danger of going to hell, certain church leaders who steal from the people of God by preaching things like tithing and “Faith Harvest” and then spend the money on things like an expensive home next to the office of their Senator should be included. I don’t think God will be happy with the men who took money from the poor to buy political influence. How come the religious “right” have no problem with swindling to legislate condemnation on a sin they find culturally abhorrent?
But back on topic…
If 95% of Americans have had pre-marital sex, then there are either a lot of hypocritical Christians who condemn and judge others for doing what they do, or they failed to interview a significant portion of the 10’s of millions of people in America who call themselves Christians.
Hmmmm…
December 26th, 2006 at 8:16 am
Very astute, FICM, one of my favorite quotes concerning hypocricy was made by Charles Spurgeon;
“I am told that Christians do not love each other. I am very sorry if that be true, but I rather doubt it, for I suspect that those who do not love each other are not Christians.”
This comment could easily be broadened to include people who call themselves Christians who “not only practice those things worthy of death, but also approve of those who practice them” (Romans 1:32); Isn’t it ironic that the world seems to know better than followers of Christ what Christians should not be doing?…and they don’t even read the Bible!
)
December 30th, 2006 at 6:27 pm
JP,
I’m hearing all you are saying, and my following comments should not be construed as representing opposition to them.
It is interesting how connected Justin’s original post, and one of the answers to your questions, about why Christian folks are sooo concerned about this matter, are.
There is a clear connect point. I think it is this, many believers are greatly concerned with the breakdown in marriage, whether it is for reasons of fornication (I.e. sex outside of marriage), adultery (I.e. sex with somone who is not your spouse but is someone else’s spouse), or homosexuality (I.e. sex with someone of the same sex), each represent a clear and present danger to the institution of marriage.
This I think is a serious matter. I don’t think the answer is harsh condemning, bigoted attacks of any of these folks. As one comic (Pogo ?)sage poet said it: We have met the enemy, and we is that enemy. (or something like that…)
None of us are free from guilt. Most of us slept with our spouses before we were married. It was wrong, as are all these issues, but it may be a bigger issue as to what all of this is ultimately doing to the institution of marriage.
If I read the statistics accurately, I read that divorce is on the decline, primarily because more folks are living together. In my 54 year lifespan I have never seen a time where more folks are “trying out marriage” without actually marrying, and believe it is the wisest approach to the whole thing.
Most couples have experienced two or three “live in trial spouses,” before they get married. To me that is tantamount to also saying that they have each experienced one or more “pre-divorces,” before the “real” divorce from an actual marriage partner. This seems to me like a very big deal.
We are a culture that has learned to call divorce “I.e. breaking up with someone whom we aren’t married to, but are living with,” as something other than divorce, and when they finally do get married find it excrutiatingly difficult to resolve their tendency to “give up” on relationships that don’t fit their ideal, and press on through those struggles to a great marriage. They can’t give themselves the help they really need, of admitting they should never have lived with someone outside of marriage, and resulting in added difficulty with the “work through” attitude it takes to make a marriage work, because then they’d have to admit that living together was a sin, and they don’t want to do that, so they live with this “hidden confusion” in their hearts, all the time debilitating the “work through” approach they need.
As a side point, on the issue of homosexuality, but if I have my statistics right, the homosexual community experiences an inordinately large number of “divorces,” and devastation from it, even compared to a society of heterosexuals with a throw away mentality towards marriage.
Sooo, if these issues are the concerns they are, then to me they create a nearly level playing field - fornication, adultery, lust, pornography, and homosexuality, are serious threats to strong marriages, and strong marriages are one of this life’s greatest joys, that few, who have traded it for alternative lifestyles, will ever know.
I think this is sad, and I think this should be a bigger concern than gets press for.
December 30th, 2006 at 6:31 pm
Your proof of these assertions, please.
December 30th, 2006 at 6:34 pm
I’ve got to head out to a party, but I believe I received those statistics from the Portland Fellowship ministry group that ministers to those trying to come out of the homosexual lifestyle. You might check them out.
If you disagree with statement that’s ok. It isn’t germaine to my point. It just saddens me, that’s all.
December 30th, 2006 at 6:38 pm
Obviously you do not have your “Statistics” right, just the same regurgitation of incorrect beliefs that are fueled by your intolerance and bigotry.
You hate, Jesus loved.
There is a major difference.
December 30th, 2006 at 7:05 pm
From: Comparing the Lifestyles of Homosexual Couples to Married Couples
More if you Google “divorce among homosexuals“.
RH, Tom is not a hater. He is a friend, brother and elder. One of the things that is hardest about leaving the IC, is recognizing that disagreement doesn’t mean the end of unity, love, brotherhood. These we enjoy IN Christ, regardless of agreement or disagreement on issues. Personally, I think whenever issues, doctrine, dogma, etc., succeed in dividing us, then we have allowed something to be elevated above Christ who unites us, and the devil has triumphed over us.
Peace, OK?
Sam
December 30th, 2006 at 7:13 pm
I agree, and look forward to the day when people do not look at homosexuality as an issue that divides christians.
December 30th, 2006 at 11:32 pm
Reforming Heathen,
Back from the party…
During my time at PBC and on the eldership of Bible Temple, I spent many years studying and counseling those who were desiring to come out of homosexuality. I’ve read many scholarly studies on the subject, spent some time with the Portland Fellowship, prayed deeply, and desired to have the most compassionate stance a person can have. I absolutely loved each one of them. I still do. I very much love those who are currently involved in homosexuality.
I know you feel very very strongly about this matter, and believe me RH I respect everything you say, and your intense frustration with those who seem to hate gays. I value you, and the perspective you bring. Without passionate people like you the body could drift into sheeple-itus, I.e. just following the common attitude, and not thinking through the issues deeply enough.
I can tell we see this issue differently, but that doesn’t make me hate you, or hate gays.
The statistics Sam quoted are all out there. I’m not trying to say there aren’t any deeply committed gay couples. I personally know one couple who has been in a very committed relationship for many years, with no signs of weakening.
My studies just indicate that a significant number of those involved in gay marriages - a number greater than those in hetero marriages - experience relational breakdowns, and tremendous sorrow as a result. Rather than make me hate them, I feel great sorrow for them. I’ve seen such pain in those I’ve counseled that I’ve broken down and cried in our sessions together. For whatever reasons people suffer in relationships Jesus cares.
Jesus loves everyone, but I have found that His love establishes boundaries, with the goal of protecting each of us from unnecessary hurts.
Tonight there are likely the eyes of gays reading our blogs. I’m intensely concerned that nothing I say unnecessarily wound them, or give them a false impression of Jesus. I’m ok with them knowing I don’t believe actively practicing a gay life is Jesus’ best for them, but I desire to communicate that without hatred for them, or even in a mean spirit.
You would never find me among anything to do with promoting a homophobic attitude. I, like Paul, place this issue in perfect parallel with the other sins Paul outlines in 1 Cor 6:9-11. I don’t believe homosexuality is any greater issue than swindling, with the exception, that in our day I’m watching a continual deterioration of the institution of marriage, and that deeply concerns me.
Having been happily married for 35 years to my best friend Laura, I can’t even begin to express how I long for those who are living together, to end that approach, commit to marriage, and find God’s grace for an awesome relationship, so of course I also desire for those who live the gay life to end those relationships and find His grace to either experience peace in a single life, or the joy of marriage to someone of the opposite sex.
I think if you knew me better RH you would be able to tell the sincerity of my heart for all peoples. What is more important to me right now, than justifying myself, is to let you know I value you very much, even if we see things differently. I hope that works for you.
December 31st, 2006 at 10:08 am
I do not believe homosexuality can be “Cured”.
I believe it is an inherent condition. Either one is born homosexual or one is born heterosexual. I do not believe that I understand everything, and I do not believe that anyone else does, either. I know for a fact that telling anyone what they are doing is wrong is very likely to drive them away from what you might feel is right.
I believe that God is far more complex than I can know, and I believe that God, because he is all-knowing, knows if homosexuality is a choice, and I know that humans cannot know this.
Therefore, since only God has the ability to discern whether homosexuality is a choice, I believe that christians should leave judgement on homosexuality to God.
Now before you whip out your Bible and point to verses that were written by men, remember that the men who wrote the Bible were men, not God.
And if you are still in doubt, ask if you have ever eaten a cheeseburger and violated God’s law.
December 31st, 2006 at 11:41 am
Reforming,
No need to worry about Bible bashing from me. I’m not an Evangelical, so I don’t subscribe to inerrancy and infallibility as justification for hierarchical pontifications or bible bashing.
I no longer consider myself as a Christian, therefore I feel no need to identify with historical Christianity’s dogmas and attitudes of “We’re right, and if you don’t agree with us, you are going to go to Hell,” as Athanasius started his Nicene Creed regarding the doctrine of the Trinity…which, by the way, I don’t buy into either.
So, hopefully I’m helping you lower your sword a bit, and encourage you to hear a thought that I think will encourage you.
You are right on, in at least one point for sure…I don’t know whether some folks are born with a predisposition towards being gay. I can’t know that. Such a thing is locked inside brain cells that no one is likely to ever be able to access without killing a person. My studies in brain science tell me that. I believe that.
I won’t even belabor my belief on the concerns the bible expresses about homosexuality. For you and I that is a mute point at this juncture. Arguing accomplishes precious little, and I value you more than to turn you needlessly into my enemy over things I can’t know absolutely.
Sooo, I’d like to quote a few scriptures…having nothing to do with bashing homosexuality, but which guide my life and I encourage to guide yours. I suspect you will agree with them, but I leave them with you to ponder.
They all have to do with listening more to Him, than even to Scripture, because to Jesus, Scripture (contrary to Evangelicalism) is not the Highest Authority. The Word of the Lord is, and the Word of the Lord most pre-eminently is that which Jesus speaks at any given point.
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 He was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men.
Joh 1:5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.
Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.
1Jo 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we looked upon and have touched with our hands, concerning the word of life–
1Jo 1:2 the life was made manifest, and we have seen it, and testify to it and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was made manifest to us–
1Jo 1:3 that which we have seen and heard we proclaim also to you, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ.
Some will come back with Psalm 138:2
2 I will worship toward Your holy temple,
And praise Your name
For Your lovingkindness and Your truth;
For You have magnified Your word above all Your name.
The Holy Bible, New King James Version, (Nashville, Tennessee: Thomas Nelson, Inc.) 1982.
But an more accurate translation, from the Hebrew, would be:
2 I will bow down toward your holy temple
and will praise your name
for your love and your faithfulness,
for you have exalted above all things
your name and your word.
The New International Version, (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan Publishing House) 1984.
And, if one does a careful study of the phrase “Your Word,” you will find this is very rarely used to describe Scripture, and almost universally refers to The Word of The Lord, which God sends to individuals to guide them into Truth.
And finally, to further support your desire to not be bible whipped, I quote John 5
Joh 5:39 You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me,
Joh 5:40 yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.
Joh 5:41 I do not receive glory from people.
This was said to Pharisees/the Evangelicals of Jesus’ day, who worshipped scripture and their interpretation of it more than God Himself, and who, because they did, when the living Word stood right in front of them they completely missed Him, because they had no relationship with the living Word Himself.
Therefore Reforming, my point, in sharing these scriptures, is that if you are a follower of the Lord Jesus Christ, the highest authority in the universe is not scripture, it is not my or your opinion, it is not Evangelicalisms or Churchianty’s opinion, that ultimately matters. It all comes down to can we hear The Word Himself.
My every encouragement is to boldly approach His throne, and ask Him His take on this matter. If you have done that, and if you believe, with all your heart He has told you to stand securely in your current belief, then you should have absolutely no concern about standing before His judgment seat, on that awesome day, and declaring to Him your confidence in the things you believe, expecting Him to say “Amen Reforming…I totally back those beliefs because they came directly from Me.”
If you and I are unable to hold our dogmatic beliefs with that level of confidence, then perhaps we should be less dogmatic, less confrontative and reactive, and leave these matters to the wise and judicious oversight of God Himself, and say such things as “My opinion is…but I don’t KNOW even as I’m known by God…”
And for those who wonder of my love and respect for Scripture, I quote Paul to Timothy, 2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, …”
I love Scripture, but I love and honor Jesus more, and that is not an oxymoron. We all argue over doctrine too much, and express human opinion too much, because our personal connections to the Living Word are as weak as they are. If our lives were more connected to Him, and deeper into His heart, then we would know these matters more from revelation than human opinion. Before we give up on this approach to our faith, we should at least consider Jesus’ parting words to His disciples:
Joh 14:26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.
Joh 16:13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.
Joh 16:14 He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you.
It is time we all came out of Evangelicalism, and returned to the Living Word Himself. It is time for the Church to arise and know their God by revelation. Only Evangelicalism has denied this potential. To one degree or another we are all the “conditioned ones” from this insidious attack on The Word of the Lord.
I, like you, have a long ways to go in this area, but before we resort to bible bashing/whipping over the subject of homosexuality or any other, I believe we need to give far greater consideration to the higher and more significant issue of the The Word of the Lord.
It might be more fun to argue from human opinion, write creeds from human opinion, build crazy harvest prosperity doctrines, from human opinion, along with Church in a box, and hierarchical leadership notions, but one day we will stand before the Lord Himself, and then each of those things will pass through the fires of divine evaluation. I guarantee you there, only that which reflected His Word and His mind will come out the other side of those fires.
Why does the world largely disdain our bible? Because we Evangelicals OBVIOUSLY haven’t heard from God, so we endlessly expose our ignorance in our many “opinions,” calling them The Word of the Lord, when they obviously aren’t. They universally scorn us because we are no where near in agreement with one another, over the things we assert with dogmaticism. Perhaps if we learned to be more intellectually and spiritually honest and express our opinions as the opinions they are, and show more grace towards those who disagree with us, the world would lose its right to scorn our use of the bible, at least a little bit.
We, the fighting fundies, could stand to taut our dogmatisms a bit less, and get on our faces more, until we come to know our God a bit better.
Sorry if this sounds too preachy, but I PROMISE you I’m preaching to myself as much as anyone else.
So, Reforming…, I’m praying about the concerns you shared, and when I know that I know what Jesus has to say about them, and am willing to die for the dogmatism of those beliefs, then I’ll let ya know. Until then, my biblical opinion is that you are wrong, and I “think” I’ve heard God on it, but until I KNOW I’ve heard Him I’ll reserve strong dogmatism, and I’ll honor your sincere struggle and concern over this matter.
I hope these words help. If not…well, at least I tried, and I honor your journey towards truth…
Tom
December 31st, 2006 at 1:00 pm
Whereas my biblical opinion is that you are wrong, and I think I’ve heard God on it.
December 31st, 2006 at 1:07 pm
And there the discussion ends, because at the end of the day all we have is opinion in the absence of KNOWING we have heard God on it.
I respect your opinion, and respectfully disagree with it. Until we KNOW His mind on the matter, then I lean your direction, and even more…Jesus’ direction, of the warmth of love and grace towards all men.
In the absence of knowing FOR SURE, things that relate to this matter, I believe gracious love is a far better drawing agent than harsh homophobic rhetoric.
Reforming, I do hope you got more out of what I wrote, than just to pick out one statement and walk away angry. Did you?
December 31st, 2006 at 5:21 pm
I guess my question is: Why would anyone choose to be gay?
I know a lot….really a LOT of LGBT folks, and every single one of them has had and continues to have a hard time with their families, their colleagues, their political leaders, the media, you name it. It’s not fun. I actually have a dear friend who once said,
“I can’t believe I let something as trivial as my sexuality come between me and my faith and happiness.”
Let’s examine that statement for a moment. Do you, gentle reader, consider your sexuality to be trivial? If so, let me humbly suggest that you’re crazy. And to be sure, my friend who said this knew full well that sexuality is not trivial. It was all the outside pressure to trivialize sexuality that led my friend to this conclusion…that is the kind of suffering this person was forced to endure: threats and rage from family, shame from mentors, isolation from friends. In the end, my friend was strong and made the choice to honor his sexuality rather than live a life of privation and/or deception. Today he is happy, healthy, and free, and he lives a life of openness and kindness to other people.
I know a lot of these stories, and I know the people who go with them, and I have a hard time believing that anyone who truly opened themselves to understand a personal struggle of this magnitude (even if they couldn’t personally relate) could look into the eyes of the person struggling and say, “You’re just making a bad choice.” It doesn’t have the ring of truth. And, unless I hear that ring of truth, my conscience forbids me to step out in condemnation.
January 1st, 2007 at 6:51 am
Nobody would.
Why people refuse to understand that is beyond me.
January 1st, 2007 at 8:58 am
Let’s suppose for a moment that one is actually “born gay.” What does that mean?
In other words, if we were to acknowledge that one was born with a singular desire for someone of the same sex, would that mean he/she would automatically have to act upon that desire in a sexual way, or that it would be the will of God for them to do so?
January 1st, 2007 at 9:50 am
Let’s suppose for a moment that one is actually “born straight.” What does that mean?
In other words, if we were to acknowledge that one was born with a singular desire for someone of the opposite sex, would that mean he/she would automatically have to act upon that desire in a sexual way, or that it would be the will of God for them to do so?
(Does anyone else see the absurdity here?)
January 1st, 2007 at 9:58 am
Reforming,
Thanks for taking the time to express your thoughts on this subject. I sense all I’m accomplishing is infuriating you, so I apologize for that, and will back away from our discussion for now.
Happy New Year!
Tom
January 1st, 2007 at 9:59 am
I sure do!
January 1st, 2007 at 9:59 am
Flesh. Fleshly issues. Fleshly arguments. Let’s exalt more and more and more flesh, until it completely obscures our view of Christ.
January 1st, 2007 at 10:03 am
Well, we could always talk about Doug Cotton, or how 20% of the time spent on the sermon on Sunday was imploring people to give more money to the church.
January 1st, 2007 at 10:43 am
:o) I’m sorry, you do not provoke me with your profane babbling;
One has to be respected and esteemed before they have that kind of effectiveness…’course, then they are far too mature to resort to nettlesome patter.
January 1st, 2007 at 11:04 am
LOL!
You must be getting paid out of the collection plate, which means you are worried about the decline in revenue.
And true profanity is promising earthly riches in exchange for tithes.
January 1st, 2007 at 2:20 pm
As is to be expected, you are wrong again.
(Ecclesiastes 10:13), (Proverbs 27:22)
January 1st, 2007 at 3:09 pm
Seriously, God created man and woman for each other. No, you do not “automatically respond” to that desire. God gave us guidelines for how we deal with our desires for the OPPOSITE sex!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Man alive RH!
January 1st, 2007 at 3:16 pm
And RH,
You try to compare being queer with being straight, but it doesn’t make sense and you know it. How could it? Being straight is the right, normal, healthy thing and it is a not a sin; being queer is a sin and not at all natural or normal. It is silly to compare the two as if they are on the same level.
HAPPY NEW YEAR though!!
And I used “queer” because gay means happy.
January 1st, 2007 at 4:05 pm
Oh, you believe that promising earthly riches in exchange for tithes is correct.
Thanks for clarifying your position.
January 1st, 2007 at 4:07 pm
Nice to know you had to think about women before you felt anything for them.
God forbid you had thought about a boy instead, since you seem to think it’s all an intellectual thing, and not a biological drive. (LOL!)
January 1st, 2007 at 4:19 pm
Actually, I never compared being homosexual with being heterosexual, you did.
You sure seem to be afraid of gay men. What’s the matter?
Do you hold a secret desire for having sex with a man?
If not, I cannot think of another reason why you feel threatened by them.
In any case, it’s obvious that you are a confirmed homophobe, and that kind of prejudice never dies.
I’ll pray for you, that God might grant you wisdom and tolerance.
January 1st, 2007 at 4:35 pm
Hey RH….
Let’s be pals. Us tax-collector-loving rebels need to stick together.
Are you a former CBCer? Of what vintage?
Email me at: jiminycricket81@yahoo.com
January 1st, 2007 at 4:40 pm
Thanks for the invite.
I cherish anonymity, because I have seen what happens when the honesty of the internet spills over into the real world.
To answer your question:
I am not now, nor have I ever been, a member of the CBC or any other M.F.I. infected church. (THANK GOD!)
Besides, sooner or later, my opinions are bound to upset you.
January 1st, 2007 at 6:54 pm
Does that mean you are not honest in the real world?
January 1st, 2007 at 8:03 pm
It is a biological drive, but not for a person of the same sex. Although, maybe that is your situation? Hmm? That would make sense as to why you are defending this so “vehemently” as you would say. You might as well give up. You know it’s not right and never has been.
January 1st, 2007 at 8:51 pm
(Does anyone else see the absurdity here?)
Yes you did. You try to twist around comments and make a ridiculous comparison’s between the two. How can you possibly compare the two? One is sin and one is not and is natural and beautiful. Heterosexuality is the way God designed things to be in this world, it’s the way he wants it to be. The Bible is obvious about that and even the animals know which sex is for them. A man/woman can pro-create. The relationship between a man/woman is the natural, wonderful thing that God created it to be. I’m so sorry that you have a such a problem with the way that God intended things to be. Maybe you should take this up with Him.
This is also a ridiculous comment. Nobody is afraid of gay men or women. Ok, there may be some, but I am not. If you would pay attention while reading, you would have noticed in one of my other comments, that I mentioned time that I had spent with them in the past. People that I worked with ect. I DON”T hate them just because I disagree and want to see every person reach the fullest potential that God has for them. There is no reason to be “afraid” of somebody. Sounds like that is YOUR mentality.
This is just funny. No way!!!!! This is also funny for another reason…
Why is a person a homophobe because they disagree you? Like I said, it is possible to think something is wrong, but still be able to get along with the person. YOU obviously are suffering from this intolerance that you speak of, since you are definitely not tolerant of any opinion being posted on this site, that doesn’t agree with you. And I hope that you do pray! It doesn’t sound like it from your other posts, but one can hope! God gives wisdom to all of His people! And I am glad that He gave ALL of us wisdom on this matter.
January 2nd, 2007 at 7:42 am
Actually, social conventions demand that, in interactions with others, bluntness and straightforwardness is to be avoided.
A prime example of this is “Ted”, who is a raging homophobe and a bigot against gay people. Do you honestly believe that “Ted” speaks out this loudly against homosexuals in the real world?
If he did, he would be roundly castigated for it, and possibly prosecuted for hate speech.
So he spews his hatred on this blog, where it’s safe for him to do so.
It’s roughly the same as a “White Supremacy” mentality.
You know:
“Our way is the ONLY way that is RIGHT!”
January 2nd, 2007 at 7:50 am
Does anyone else see that “Ted” is “Fishing” for a gay man?
LOL!
Careful “Ted”, you will expose your deepest desires if you keep dwelling on them!
Sayyyy… you wouldn’t be “Ted” as in TED HAGGARD, would you?
That sure would explain your position!
LOLOLOLOL!!!!!
January 2nd, 2007 at 8:14 am
Here is the www.dictionary.com definition for homophobe:
“a person who fears or hates homosexuals and homosexuality.”
Ted, you ARE a HOMOPHOBE, BY DEFINITION!
Really? Well, you don’t seem to be “Getting along” with homosexuals, so that refutes your assertion.
Yeah yeah, the pot is calling the kettle BLACK…
I do pray, maybe my prayers for tolerance will cancel out your prayers of hatred, although it sure sounds like YOU don’t pray.
Then what’s YOUR excuse?
And yet your PRIDE makes you believe that you are in the RIGHT, when you are so obviously WRONG.
Here’s another observation:
Ted, you are one of those people who INSISTS on having the last word. You have shown that repeatedly on this thread. It’s the same as a child who is fighting with a sibling, and they shout their position one last time just before slamming the door shut behind them.
I have NO DOUBT that I could draw this out until Hell freezes over just by continuing to respond to your feeble attempts to justify your homophobia and bigotry.
I will not do so for a couple of reasons:
1. You already LOST. That is plainly obvious to anyone who is reasonably intelligent.
2. I don’t wish to be an enabler to someone who is so deeply committed to hatred. In keeping this up, I would enable you to spew your venom towards homosexuals.
3. I don’t believe in spending time on lost causes, and Ted, you are a lost cause.
4. “There, but for the Grace of God, go I”
So go in peace “Ted”, I will pray for you to know TOLERANCE, which you are SO incredibly lacking in.
Feel free to re-state your intenable position just before you slam that bedroom door in my face.
(ROTFLMAO!)
January 2nd, 2007 at 8:19 am
Well, if that’s a metaphor for “Ted is a troll” and he’s been playing you, then yes. Since 12/3, Ted has been:
To be fair, I have other IDs as well - all but 2 used just a few times for ‘comic relief’ since this is, after all, a parody blog. In the 2 I use most, there’s no secret about who I am.
I really took to heart something Tom Sparks said in a post several weeks ago, about real identities, and desiring to commune with real people, not just people playing internet games. We’ve since had some good dialogue off line and have (I think) enjoyed the presence of Christ in each other through writing each other.
On the other hand multiple IDs help make the blog fun when used for humor or to kick start a discussion. I’m just not enthused when multiple IDs are used for trollish behavior or to create the illusion of overwhelming agreement in a discussion.
Sam
January 2nd, 2007 at 8:26 am
LOL!
Umm, NOOOO.. it’s an allusion that Ted Haggard was a closeted homosexual, and “Ted” sounds so conflicted, he might be a closeted homosexual also.
Oh, so HE has been playing ME?
And here I thought it was the other way around.
Oh well, it’s hard to “Play” someone who will not respond to posts.
As far as the concept of multiple I.D.s on the internet. I don’t do that.
It’s dishonest.
Anyways, enough time has been spent on him.
Next.
January 2nd, 2007 at 8:57 am
*chuckle* Does the phrase ‘having a meltdown’ strike a chord?
January 2nd, 2007 at 9:19 am
Doug Cotton had a meltdown. CLF with it’s horribly declining membership may have a meltdown. Ted Haggard had a meltdown and it’s likely that if his flock ever finds out that he starved poor people in retaliation for what happened to Doug Cotton, Wendell Smith may have a meltdown.
Me having enough intelligence to know that arguing with idiots is futile does not constitute a meltdown.
Back to therapy for you, you still have “Issues”.
(ROTFLMAO at you!)
January 2nd, 2007 at 9:34 am
I love the sound of a good meltdown - the sizzling of flesh on hot coals - reminds me of home.
January 2nd, 2007 at 10:40 am
So, how have you been, Pastor Doug?
January 2nd, 2007 at 1:59 pm
You guys and your “multiple personalities” on this site. I still cannot understand why you care what name a person chooses to use when they post a comment. I have noticed a lot of different names being used on other blog sites, but no annoying nagging about it lol! Does it really make a difference? So funny. And I am not one of those people that gives myself kudos! Like cowboy. Ruffled feathers over multiple names… so funny. And since you cannot think straight RH, I am done with YOU. I do not hate anybody just because I disagree with them. I disagree with people that shop lift, but I don’t hate them. You are the intolerant person on this site.
NEXT!!
Doug Lasit? Oh great…
January 2nd, 2007 at 2:51 pm
Did I forget to mention the 16 email addresses you have used for your 16 personalities are all bogus?
Bet you didn’t stop to think what kind of bounce-back problems that might create for RP and Cat who own and run the blog? Nor whether volumes of bounced email might cause them a problem with their ISP?
I wouldn’t be so smug about it, Ted. The blog is here because of the generosity and hospitality of the owners. You might want to be a more thoughtful house guest, you know?
Sam
January 3rd, 2007 at 11:39 am
Samaritan said:
I think this environment has incredible potential for articulating, growing in, and addressing theological truths, but if those