Back to the Basics
Posted on February 27th, 2007 by Reformed Pope into the Conferences categoryI did some blog searching and found a few comments about this year's Generation Unleashed Conference. I'm rather conflicted about "youth conferences" in general, mostly, because I am yet to see one that isn't based solely on hype. I don't want to say that they are all bad, but really…is hyping God good for our youth?
At first glance I would say, look at all these kids excited about worshiping God, look at how ready they are to "take the nation", "start a revival", and "live for Jesus"…how can there be anything wrong with that?
I then have to remember my personal experience. I have been to many conferences where I sang, danced, cried, and promised that "I would never be the same again"…but there is one problem: We are the same. People don't change…at least not in a short 3 day conference time period. "Living a life to honor God" takes a bit of time and is not solved by crying out of desperation at the alter once a year. It's more of a life journey.
Ok, so am I really saying that brining 9,000 kids to Portland, Oregon every year to get pumped up about God is wrong …it sounds crazy to say that…right?
Let's look at what one blogger had to say about GU:
HOLY GATES OT HEAVEN!!!
Gen Unleashed is one of the most LIFE CHANGING experiences that like you'll ever have!!!
I dont even know if u can understand the AMAZINGNESS of it..until u go…!
But, its so cool, because like theres literally, THOUSANDS of teenagers there for the same reason…Jesus….& they like ALL just TOTALLY full-on worship God!
He like totally moves people right & left! (te he…not literally..lol)
n e ways, THE PRESENCE OF GOD IS THE MOST AMAZING FEELING THAT U CAN EVER HAVE!!!
***& u totally feel Him @ GU..fer sher!***
~ I cant even wait till next year~
Once you get past the fact that texting is ruining the English language, you see that she is very excited about God…how can that be bad?
Let's read another:
i had the most amazing weekend ever! my life has truly CHANGED. i have figured out everything that i questioned. everything has been answered for me. i have never cried so much i have never had so much fun nor been so happy. it was amazing. it was incredible seeing people do one hundred percent turn arounds in seconds. i love the new me. i love who i am and who i have become. i do not want the old me anymore. and its time to cut the people out of my life who are only care about themselfs. i want frineds who are going to be there whenEVER i need them. if i need someone to talk to or a sholder to cry on even if it is two thirty in the morning. they will be there. i want people that will infuluence me in a positive way and not bring me down or minipulate me and get me to do negative ways. if you do not like this then i am sorry…no im not sorry. this is me! love me for me NOT for who you want me to be! have a good night :]]
So I went to Generation Unleashed this year…and basically….God totally changed my life! I cannot begin to describe the happiness that I am feeling! I have been completly transformed into a new women of God. AND I am proud of it!! seriously…………..wow……lol
God "totally changed her life"…that sound's pretty good. Let's read one more:
GEN UNLEASHED WAS INSANLY AMAZING! AND THE WORSHIP WAS INCREDIBLE!
Again, i was amazed by God's grace this year at Gen Unleashed. Im so glad that i went, because part of me didn't want to. It changed me once again, and i realized how bad ive screwed up this last year. And i think that may be one of the reasons i didn't want to go is cuz of all that guilt. But you know in the end, i realized that no matter how much or how bad i screw up, God will be there no matter wut.
Im ready to change for good this time i want to live for God and not for myself or anyone else.. just for him. It seems that for so long ive been hiding a lot of things about my life… and sometimes even my faith (or at least not showing it to its full extent) but im done with that…. im ready to do this right this time… im ready to stand up and live for my God!
There it is. There is the problem. You see, this chick is going through the same experience that I went through and that every high school kid I knew went through: It's called Reality. Life. It's what happens during the 51 weeks between conferences. Unfortunately we can't spend 2 hours everyday having a great band lead us in "worship" getting us pumped to go "cry at the alter" (side note: from a simple "Christian music" standpoint, most of the songs I've heard from GU's God's Not Dead cd are great. I don't know that it really qualifies as "worship", but they put out a good album). You see, her desire is "to live for God and not for [her]self or anyone else.. just for him", but it didn't work at last years show and sadly, it won't work now.
When the buzz wears off in a couple of weeks she is going to be in the same place as she was last year: screwing up and feeling guilty. (I'm not trying to be harsh or to pick on her…I don't know who she is…I'm speaking from my own personal experience here). She says this year's conference "changed [her] once again", but if it doesn't last, is it really change?
To sum up my thoughts, Youth conferences are fun, and they inspire for a short time but in the end they leave you cold. Your crash often takes you farther away from God then where you were before you got your high. I say that because I lived that.
Where is the "fruit" from Generation Unleashed? Where are all the life changing, revival makers now? When I was 16, 17, 18, and 19 years old I attended those same conferences with thousands of other youth, so why haven't we changed the world by now? Because when the conference is over… the hype wears off.
And that is my sad opinion.
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February 27th, 2007 at 11:15 am
I could not agree more. How ironic that I was talking about this EXACT topic with a friend last night. Here’s a great oversimplification about it.
GU is Jolt Cola, or Mt. Dew, or a triple espresso, or whatever your favorite rocket fuel/pick-me-up drink is!
Sure it gets you jacked up and feeling great for a short period of time…
BUT YOU CAN’T LIVE OFF IT!!!
You have to have something more solid. And the irony is, if you’re eating the right stuff, you find you don’t need the rocket fuel anyways. (sorry if the analogy is failing)
But I’m 100% in agreement with Pope here. I attended numerous camps, numerous GUs, numerous hype-me, hype-me, hype-me events, only to walk away and find myself a week later wondering now that the adrenaline had worn off why my life wasn’t fundamentally different.
Don’t get me wrong though…I really feel like young people need a place to get excited about stuff. Share in a big event. Rock their ever-loving socks off! But it has to be balanced with some practicality, and well…I think you all know how I feel about that happening in the IC.
GU kids…when the hype wears off…I challenge you to pray that God will further reveal himself to you in a way that goes beyond legalism and elitism, beyond a list of do’s and don’t’s, to a point where the desire for Grace and goodness to mankind and Christ-like humility is thirst after much greater than hype!
February 27th, 2007 at 11:58 am
I think there is a real failure to actually preach the gospel at GU.
How many people were baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sin? Read Acts 2:38, or John 3:3-5, where Jesus says you cannot see or enter the kingdom of God unless you are born again of the water and the Spirit. They got baptized in loud music and greek sophistry. The result will come to nothing. They preach a God who is always in complete control….and fail to realize that He cannot repent for you, or get baptized for you, or bring forth “fruits worthy of repentance”
for you. Those are things God cannot do, and hence He is NOT in complete control.
February 27th, 2007 at 12:01 pm
I remember coming home from a summer camp and telling my parents “I’ve changed” and mom, in particular was delighted, because she had to deal with my pubescence most of the time, or at least until dad came home from work and put the hurt on me …
Not 2 weeks later I remember mom being angry with me for giving her lip about doing my after school chores - she said “I thought you had changed” … ouch …
Perhaps the best message we can tell kids is NOT that they need to change (after all, who can tame the flesh), but rather that God loves them right where they’re at and if there’s any changing necessary, the Holy Spirit will effect it.
To my way of thinking, the entire “change” message is rotten fruit - it sends someone off with the notion that not only do they need to change, but that they have the power to change by the efforts of their flesh … yet I believe scripture teaches that nothing of the flesh is good, every effort of the flesh is vanity and so these conferences and retreats ultimately prove to be a negative in people’s lives by sending them off on a mission that is doomed to failure.
By all appearances, the pharisees had changed themselves into model people of faith … yet Jesus noted they were rotten to the core, etc. So all we are ever able to do by the flesh, is ‘white wash’ our outer man.
Only the Lord can change the inner man … wish that the conference message was more along the lines of ‘yield to His hand and be patient’…
Sam
February 27th, 2007 at 1:42 pm
On one hand I get very excited to see any group of people experience God in a deeper way and feel that the time was lifechanging.
I have noted that when large God inspired meetings are set up and enough liberty allowed for Him to minister … that God shows up and blesses the gathering of people … regardless of age.
I am concerned that all too often things like the gathering above become replacements for what makes a real disciple. Christ makes a real disciple. First by mentoring, then by other expressions of church and fellowship and instruction.
Never will these type of meetings nor other diverse churchy program methods …. never will they fullfill the great commission of making disciples. By the grace of God they help stir people, by the grace of God they help make converts …
My concern and hope is to see the hearts of the Fathers turned towards the Children in the very basis of the great commission. Making disciples. It is small and slow and one must be a disciple to make a disciple … one must have Christ minister through you to reproduce Himself.
The pattern for diciple making was used by Jesus Himself and the disciples thereafter. It worked then … why do we think newer better or various methods will work better? Just because God is gracious and blesses them doesn’t mean we are obedient to the Commission He gave.
Unless the Lord build the house … they that labor, labor in vain.
Has bible school, seminary, church programs changed the world commensurate with the great commission? I see benefit … but also mixture that shows the same unfaithfullness as a harlot.
When will the hearts of the fathers be turned to the children? Really? What does that mean and just how will it look?
February 27th, 2007 at 6:51 pm
so GU is bad because u had a bad experience at a conference before?
yea i get what your saying and ur right. Youth Conferences do give spiritual highs, but i have seen in my own youth group the spiritual high stick on people one by one, now after 9 years at goin to generation conference in Utica NY, we have 80 kids who are in a continual state of being on fire for God…
February 27th, 2007 at 7:10 pm
I went to GU (or whatever it used to be called) many times in my days at CBC and TCHS and I can concur with JP on this. I think I found a huge part that was lacking. I don’t think the hype is necessarily a bad thing, but when you go back to the other 51 weeks and there is nothing to backup/reinforce/continue what happens at GU then you slip back into what you were doing beforehand…what is comfortable.
I am involved in high school ministry at my church and we opted not to go to GU this year because the leaders of the high school ministry stepped down in late December and we had a temporary leader set in. Because of that (and some other things) we didn’t feel that we would be able to backup/reinforce/continue what the high schoolers would have had at GU and that in the end it would have been a waste of time and money. We probably would have only had 10-15 going as well. When you look at the youth group at CBC which was a couple hundred when I was there and that was before it was called GenChurch, it is very hard to continue what happened and be able to minister to the kids who were changed effectively. Most will do what JP and I and many other did which was have a great “experience” and then slip back into our comfort zones after a few days or weeks.
February 28th, 2007 at 8:41 am
You must not have read JB’s comment:
Tell me more JB…80 kids in a continual state of being on fire for God would constitute a revival in my book. By the way, is Rick Andrew one of the pastors of this church?
March 1st, 2007 at 12:16 pm
JB,
Are these kids on fire for God or on fire to do what the ‘leadership’ tells them to do? There can be a huge difference. See Luke 6:46.
I really would like to hear more about what they are doing, since we are to ‘bring forth fruits worthy of repentance’.
March 1st, 2007 at 3:53 pm
yeah, those conferences don’t really do much except maybe give you a few good moments to remember. but they don’t change you. they’re just annoying.
March 1st, 2007 at 4:25 pm
Exactly! you need food the rest of the year too!
thats why kids come home and crash! its not because GU is bad, its because they expect the energy to last forever!
just like your physical body requires constant nourishment so does your spiritual man If you will
March 2nd, 2007 at 6:20 am
Levi, that statement suggests one of the main problems with the “go to church” (to get fed), and “go to conference” (to get charged up) attitude …
Jesus said “I AM the bread of life” (John 6:33-51) and that He is the giver of “living water” (John 4:10-14).
Of COURSE people get hungry again right after a conference or church service. For one, the food there has passed through the hands of men where yeast/contamination/fillers are introduced. For another, people associate ‘food’ with a specific time and place, rather than a person who is there 24×7 (Jesus) to dispense food and drink. Looking to a man to feed you and having to wait a week in between feedings? Ridiculous!
People are plugging into the WRONG source for food!
Who bakes YOUR bread?
‘Scrupe
March 2nd, 2007 at 10:20 am
Thanks for the link ’scrupe. I’ve read some of your website, but had not gotten to that one yet.:)
Awhile back, one of my kids came home from a Wednesday night youth meeting with an interesting story. It seems all of the usual ‘leadership’ types were off to some retreat, and they had to dig down into the woodwork to find someone to preach that night. The message was from John 3 where Jesus says you must be born again of the water and the Spirit before you can see or enter the kingdom of God. This guy brought up the issue of baptism and attached some importance to it! Several of my kids friends were amazed, and commented that they had never heard THAT before! I laughed and said, “it’s nice that when all the usual leaders leave they find someone to actually preach the GOSPEL!” I might add that some of those kids had spent years in CBC, gone to camps etc…???
March 2nd, 2007 at 10:46 am
I remember a time when I was involved as worship leader type for a church youth group - and we took the kids to Lombard, IL to a youth service called “Soul Desire” or whatever - they had a fairly typical contemporary service with worship band - a mix of kids and adults - and a simple message.
The sr. pastor grilled me because the youth minister was not forthcoming with information about the field trip - finally the sr. got down to his itch “they aren’t going to be exposed to tongues, are they?!?” I shook my head, laughed and said “they don’t have to go to Lombard to hear tongues … that’s one of my gifts …” He turned beet red - and strangely, that’s about the time the real persecution began. Ultimately that church (anti-charismatic) drove me, my wife and the 2 other peeps with the gift of tongues out of there …
In similar fashion, a few adults concerned for the kids who were bored stiff with a traditional midwest religious service, prepared a survey for the high school kids. Among the questions: “are you born again” … several of the kids, who had ALREADY been through confirmation, baptism and had joined the church, answered “NO”. That sent the high school SS teachers in to hyper-drive mode - reading the 4 spiritual laws and reciting the sinners prayer over and over again to get them saved … believe it or not, a family of one student quit the church over it - saying essentially that the kid was a member of the church, so what’s this born again nonsence?!?
When the underlings preach differently than the paid admins/pastor/staff, it’s usually just a matter of time before the underling is shown the door.
Do you know how ol’ ‘John the Baptist’ made out after the youth sermon? Any fallout?
Jack
March 2nd, 2007 at 3:15 pm
whatHEsaid … “They got baptized in loud music and greek sophistry.”
God is gracious and blesses us because He is good and “it is finished.”
But I did get a kick out of your statement and agree … it has been a long time since I had heard the term sophistry used so aptly.
March 4th, 2007 at 7:06 pm
Actually yeah, we have 80 kids that are bringing forth unbelievable fruits some bringing even 5 friends a week to youth group and introducing them to Christ left and right, and yea like all teenagers they go through stuff (alot of stuff) but they always break through it. In fact out of a youth group of 80 there is not even one of them dating. Not that dating is bad…at all. And not that we are even against it, but it is their decision to focus on God for now, and girls later. Which is pretty cool, but i must attribute it to all the years we went to GC in Utica until one by one something broke on these kids and even if we wanted to we couldnt hold them back.
Also, yes they are on fire for God, but they are so respectful to authority they even put me to shame sometimes, its crazy.
ummmm and yea, Pastor Rick Andrew is at Utica, and that guy is sooo freakin hilarious, and just wicked smart.
and dude, speak for yourself cause they changed me….radically.
March 5th, 2007 at 9:03 am
JB, that is fantastic. I have no idea what goes on at GC Utical and so I”ll take your word that it is great.
Rick is a great guy, tell him I said hello.
March 5th, 2007 at 9:03 am
JB wroted:
Uh, dude, did the conference change you or was it God?
Often we credit the institution or surrounding for what God does - I saw my first vision in a dead presbyterian church - did the church give the vision, or was it God? I said the sinners prayer in that same church building, but was it the church or building that saved me, or was it God? Years later, I received the baptism with the Holy Spirit in my living room - should I have credited the house I was renting with the work of God?
I’ve received from God while in a variety of places and situations … I would NEVER give credit to the bathtub, where I once received a powerful word of truth from the Father … so why is it when God does some great work in us, we credit a conference or church? The Father could just as easily speak to you and change you while you’re pinching a loaf.
There’s one old contemporary christian song with lyrics about a foolish man who “thanks the clouds for the rain” …
Give credit where it’s due, little bro’
‘Scrupe
March 5th, 2007 at 9:51 am
You are correct, Rick Andrew is a smart funny guy.
I wish you the best JB. Good luck.
March 5th, 2007 at 12:15 pm
Rick Andrew… pastor ?? I always thought he had better aspirations in life.. abilities too
March 5th, 2007 at 2:27 pm
yea scrupe i get what your saying i also know of 15 years of my life where absolutely nothing happened to me, not in my living room, not in my bathtube, so yea i know it was God that changed me i just thought you wouldnt be so incredibly stupid that i would have to specify it like that, but what i will thank God for is the atmosphere that was created with a thousand teenagers with one focus for three days, that lead me to a change.
and Reformed Pope, im goin up there soon so ill be sure to let him kno u said hi (idk if hell know u, but…is kool)
March 5th, 2007 at 2:33 pm
jb said:
(Bold emphasis was added by me)
Ok, maybe I am reading too much into this but are all the kids in your youth group boys or is it just that the boys have decided not too date so the girls have “fallen in line” because if they wanted to date it would have to be someone outside of the youth group? Just so you have an idea of where I am coming from, I am generally against dating in high school, but I won’t get into my reasons. I’m just curious of the singling out of the boys was intentional or not?
March 5th, 2007 at 2:41 pm
nahh its the guys and he girls either in or outside the group..honestly its pretty insane. it really is not easy, so i have major respect for some of them…
March 5th, 2007 at 2:55 pm
Wow jb,
You may have conquered the “dating demons”, but it looks like “anger” may still be hanging around…you might need to consider taking a GU refresher course…
March 5th, 2007 at 3:45 pm
Don’t never misunderestimate me, JB.
‘Scrupe
March 5th, 2007 at 10:38 pm
This is absolutely disgusting…
You guys are bickering about whether or not God can work in people at a conference?
God can work in you anywhere you will let him.
Quit picking each other apart, If you have a problem with Conferences like GU then you need to take it to God and maybe even someone in charge at GU
If you are a full supportor Of GU and conferences like it, you are wasting time arguing with people on here. you wont change a single opinion.
I would like to see fruitless arguements like this stop, It does nothing but discredit Christianity, It makes us look like a bunch of unorganized un-united misfits that accomplish nothing…
March 6th, 2007 at 8:43 am
Ok…that about sums up my impression of American Christianity…maybe you can change my mind by telling me what we’ve accomplished?
March 6th, 2007 at 10:33 am
The truth is, we havent accomplished much of anything…
and its because of things like this! we argue over minute details that dont matter!
But im not going to waste my time trying to convince you of anything.
because, its a waste of time!
March 6th, 2007 at 10:59 am
You would prefer we spent our time:
At Youth Conferences?
Listening to “catchy but not quite worship” music?
Crying at the alter?
Sitting in church?
I suppose some would call those things a waste of time.
March 6th, 2007 at 11:55 am
Levi … Amen … God is gracious … He is a good Father and loves on us little children … fruit is found in those environs where Jesus is Preached.
Yes He desires we live in His perfect will … that must follow the work of the Cross in our lives. (Denying ourselves, bearing our cross and following Jesus) … then the release of His Love and that fruit moves us to be “perfected in love.”
No cross of Jesus operating? Then no commensurate fruit or gifts of the Spirit operating. No authority and no power.
You see … you are challenging something here and it manifests its nature. Accusation, Bitterness and mockery.
Levi: In the lack of self denial and cross bearing and following Jesus …. Self-preservation leads to self-justification … then to accusation. This is a natural progression of iniquity in people. This identifies a nature when it manifests.
If people know Jesus and Him crucified … well they show that power of the Cross in their lives and heart and the heart overflow of their speech. The love of God will be broadcast from their hearts by the Holy Ghost. Their speach will be filled with wisdom from above and their speech be seasoned with salt, their thinking will be evidently sound and not driven by a spirit of fear, but of love, power and a sound mind.
Bitterness defiles many as you have seen and challenged. The mockery nature is evidence of its foothold and how opposed to honor one has become. (Psalms 1)
Expose it by the truth and the grace of God … but certain things cannot be reasoned with.
The hungry and thirsty do make efforts to seek out what is true and noble and honorable.
March 6th, 2007 at 1:22 pm
H&G…nice try…but Levi hasn’t been Accused or Mocked…and as far as bitterness goes…well, speak for yourself…all I did was ask a few probing questions and no one else has addressed him.
Of course we’ve seen you and JB Purl at work so we all know your tactics.
Why don’t you give it another try…perhaps something a little more direct.
March 6th, 2007 at 3:35 pm
I would prefer you did none of those things,
I would rather see you witnessing and spreading the gospel, prophecying and healing the sick! is that not what christianity is about?
youth conferences and “IC” like CBC are there to inspire that kind of action.
I think people lose focus, rather than focussing on God they focus on the form, rather than having a living relationship with him they keep themselves busy going to church and doing different things that never accomplish anything
thats the real issue
Im trying to decide whether you are being sarcastic or are actually serious?
the things you say are right, tho taken out of context…
My job as a christian is not to be perfect, as humans we are nowhere near perfect it is in our nature to sin…
my job is to continually try to mold my life after that of christ’s…
I’m not perfect I never will be, But the God I serve is a just and merciful God
I am in no way bitter…
I do my best from day to day,
there are changes I need to make,
And I am working to do so,
Please take a look at your own life, and see what you are bringing to fruition, Is it Positive? does it bring life? or is it discouraging people and wearing them down?
March 6th, 2007 at 3:40 pm
But do they? I haven’t seen it.
March 6th, 2007 at 3:47 pm
Do you do any of those things?
as an enlightened non-conference attender, you must be living 100% for Gods glory right?
not to insult anyone, but humor me for a moment,
If you call yourself a christian, quit judging other people for their faults!
dont judge CBC for putting on GU! hundreds of kids got saved this year..
even if those kids dont prophecy or do anything of that sort, it was still a success! even if just one got saved it was still successful was it not?
like I said, people get so caught up in the form they forget waht its all really about… Living your life, loving your God more than anything else
March 6th, 2007 at 3:55 pm
Levi, Levi, Levi,
You do realize what I’ve been doing here, right? I’m simply sucking you in to a discussion that you don’t want to be a part of…remember how this all started?
First you said:
Then you said:
And you finished by saying:
Now look what has happened to you…engaging in “fruitless arguements” which do nothing “but discredit Christianity”. Shame on you.
March 6th, 2007 at 3:58 pm
But what are they getting saved into? Legalism, elitism, guilt and manipulation? God, I pray not, but I worry!
The problem is so much bigger than that moment!
March 6th, 2007 at 5:06 pm
Levi: I was commending you and being serious. Not as criticism of you in any way but exhortation.
I’ve been on many chat/blog places over the years and seen many mocker ridicule bitter types deride others. They typically don’t listen but seek to drag others into their bitter ways defiling them.
Enguaging them on their level typically only drains and drags one down … when you could be helping the hungry of heart learn more of Jesus.
Very much pharisees who do not enter the kingdom of God themselves and violently oppose those who do.
I use perfect will as a context set-up for what you were saying about the fruitful life versus the unfruitful behavior you were addressing.
Making the point that the daily venture of “being perfected in love” starts with the cross … and continued exposing how to recognize those who don’t operate that way(The cross and love) … by recognizing their self-preservation, self-justification and crafty inuendo style of accusatory nature.
The “picking apart behavior” is simple evidence of “no love …. no cross.” … just evidencing that those who do it … well they simply don’t get it because they haven’t the fruit of Jesus nor the “unity of the Spirit and the Bond of peace.”
Levi Said: “Please take a look at your own life, and see what you are bringing to fruition, Is it Positive? does it bring life? or is it discouraging people and wearing them down?”
Big Amen !
Those who are givers, blessers, servants and speak life … well that fruit will overflow them.
Those deriders, discouragers and takers … well … that fruit overflows them as well.
Wisdom is justified of her children.
April 4th, 2007 at 8:34 am
After a period of quite a few years, I’m re-reading Watchman Nee’s “The Latent Power of the Soul”. It is an eye opener this time around! He is basically showing the difference between the ’soulish power’ of men vs. the working of the Holy Spirit.
He discusses how large meetings with repetative music create a sense of ‘presence’. He then relates that such demonstrations of ’soulish power’ will have no lasting impact. The Holy Spirit will have a lasting impact that changes people.
I don’t want to relate the whole booklet here, but it should be a ‘must read’ for those coming out of the IC, who wonder why it has so little lasting impact on society.
April 6th, 2007 at 6:00 am
Late comment for the original post (I’ve recently discovered the CBC website), but SO TRUE.
We have attended an MFI affiliate church for a number of years. Quick bit of back-drop:
1. We began attending this church (once a great place to grow in Christ and fellowship) back in the early 1990’s.
2. The Lord worked mightily in our marriage through the ministry of this church.
3. Through key children’s teachers, our kids (as smaller tykes) began to grow in the Lord as well.
4. Somewhere around the time of the “Pensacola Outpouring”, the focus of our church completely changed. Our church changed covering to MFI and all the old affiliations (IE: the church that was responsible for planting us) were barely mentioned anymore. New names of people we’d never heard of were now bandied about as our covering.
5. At this time also, new doctrines were introduced. The church had always been strong on giving as individuals listened to the Lord and gave out of their free will with grateful hearts. All of a sudden, however, giving became touted as a visible act of worship. Rather than tithe boxes in the foyer, buckets were now passed. “Wave offerings” of our checks were also taken. Offerings were sometimes taken by having us walk down to the altar to leave our money. I don’t even want to give anymore. The Lord loves a cheerful giver. I’m not cheerful about something that I’m co-erced & manipulated to do. I don’t like the idea of “Give to get to give to get”. It all belongs to God ANY way! He can give or take as He sees fit…blessed be the name of the Lord.
7. Children’s ministry changed. No more “boring” bible stories…now hype and frenetic Pee-wee’s Playhouse type settings to entertain them. Seasoned teachers who didn’t go with the flow either quit or were asked to step out of leadership.
6. Youth ministry changed right around the same time our kids were old enough to start going. It became more hype than substance as well. Youth camps would bring in “notable” speakers and feature a bunch of gross-out (and slightly perverted) games (such as licking peanut butter off an opposite-sex person’s feet or armpits…thankfully, this phenomenon didn’t last too long due to parental complaints).
7. Yearly youth conferences would bring in BIG speakers. Youth were encouraged to “take their generation for God”! They were told to not be cliquish and not to conform to the world. God has chosen them as His instruments to change the world! So, what happens within a week following the conferences? The same cliques of the “haves” (kids of elders and pastors & wealthy kids), excluding the kids of the “have nots” (kids of “average” members, or kids from poor or single parent homes). The same kids attending youth week after week. Not many of the “World” being brought in, other than at times when cash money was handed out for those who brought the most visitors. Same old, same old… AT conference: jump up and down to the cool music and go ga-ga over the flashing lights….scream en masse “Hell no, heaven YES”….and leave with absolutely NO biblical foundation for growth and change. No real Word to bring REAL repentance and REAL revelation. Wednesday nights just seemed to be mini-versions of the big conferences.
8. Focus also changed to wealth and excellence. The wealthy and “excellent” are elevated as spiritual examples and leaders. I wonder what ever happened to the scripture of how “not many noble…are called, but God uses the FOOLISH things of the world to confound the wise”?
9. Why are we still there? Because God hasn’t released us to go. Our kids are grown now and are figuring out life, where the Lord wants them to be, and finding places to dig into the Word and grow. We’ve looked around at other churches, but haven’t found anywhere that feels like “home”. It seems that so many full-Gospel churches around us have embraced the whole “Word-faith” theology and have fallen hook, line & sinker. Where else do we GO unless we sacrifice the freedom in the Spirit for a denominational church that DOESN’T allow for that? Not saying, of course, that denominational churches are bad…great teaching exists in so many of them!
I pray for this church daily. My hope is that the Lord will bring about change. There are still good things about this church. I don’t want to openly disparage this church by naming names or identifying where this church is. There are still good teachings, interspersed with the constant emphasis on the tithe. I just miss the simple times when we would linger in God’s presence in worship, and there were no scheduled agendas. I miss the simpler approach in ministering to the kids and youth. I miss the NATURAL fellowship as opposed to the constantly scheduled small groups and accountability groups.
I find myself at a crossroads…. do I get back in and start serving and try to make a difference, or do I continue to sit in the pew and keep a comfortable distance? I think God is saying to risk getting hurt and serve, then trust Him with the timing and release to leave (if we DO end up leaving.) It’s a bit scary, though.
April 9th, 2007 at 10:38 am
Anonymous,
Sounds like your experience is similar to many of ours. One thing I think you should look into a little more is the “Spiritual Covering” doctrine. I don’t find it Biblical, I see it as manipulation. The church is always trying to control people…it’s possibly why you are having such a hard time leaving.
Of course, here at City Business Church, we encourage everyone to stay at their current church and try to make a change, rather than running away.
April 11th, 2007 at 12:59 pm
RP wrote:
Whew, you can say that again!
If just that one false doctrine be stripped away from modern evangelicalism pastors would find it very difficult to move their agendas forward, and return the church to Jesus, to Whom it belongs, and find His covering alone will sufficiently keep the flock in line, and fulfill His purpose for the church’s existence.
Having traveled all across the US, Canada, Mexico, and 13 other nations, and in most of them I’ve had opportunities to talk with and minister to folks in the IC, and I’ve been amazed to find that the systems thinking, connected with this “covering doctrine,” of the IC, hurts people in every culture I’ve ever visited.
Some cultures use it more and some use it less, but in each case that it is used it is because of a false understanding of Jesus’ Headship. The belief that a man (a senior pastor) can adequately embody the authority of Christ to a congregation, as if Jesus Himself were inaccessible to the flock and needing a man to do “all” the speaking for Him, is such a false notion, and one the apostles never implied, that I can only conclude it came from man’s flesh and a need for security and significance.
Even churches, like CBC, that say the senior pastor is simply the “first among equals,” have sufficient support systems in place for the senior pastor to stack his leadership deck with men who will support his agenda, and thus, while they say it is a first among equals approach, in reality the first should really be spelled FIRST!!!!!.
And, in churches that utilize a true co-equal eldership, and no senior pastor, still there the notion is false because it still assumes the flock cannot hear from God and need a group of elders to give them God’s agenda for the church that trumps any thing they might think God wants done in their church. The flock is only really heard, when they agree with the pastor, or, when there is such a fuss made in opposition to the pastor’s agenda that the pastor decides it isn’t a hill to die on, and so acquieses to their desire so as to avoid a church split.
All of this could be avoided by churches respecting Christ in His body, and believing that their authority is not the authority to control, but an authority based on accurately reflecting Jesus’ authority and then allowing the church to respond to that authority.
April 11th, 2007 at 1:13 pm
Spiritual Covering defined: A religious wet blanket.