jb,
It appears, sadly, that despite all the good coming out of GC Utica it still isn't enough. You would think with the 80 youth on fire for God (and not dating) that CBC would feel comfortable with the spiritual leadership in New York; that however does not seem to be the case. Look what I just found in their bulletin:
NEW YORK CITY CHURCH
If you are interested in being a part of the New York City Church plant team or just want to come hear more about the vision, please join us on either Sunday, March 18th, from 1:30 – 3:00PM or Monday, April 16th, from 6:30 – 8:30PM, in the Upper Conference room. Lunch or light hors d'oeuvres will be served.
I don't have any of the details on this other than what you just read (and I don't think I'm welcome at the "lunch"), but regardless CBC is clearly getting involved in a N.Y. Church plant…and there is only one way to take that: Clearly, the church leaders in New York are not doing a good enough job so CBC has to step in.
I am curious that they refer to it as "New York City Church", which makes me wonder if it is actually a City Church Seattle plant that CBC is just helping out with…well…either way it should be a good time
UPDATE 3/5:
Just to clarify, for those who are new to the blog… I may be a bit of an idiot.
You see, when I read that CBC was starting a New York City Church Plant, what I read was a New York – City Church Plant…I thought they were planting a City Church in New York…That is why I chose to bring Utica into things. I now realize my mistake.
Utica and CBC-NYC, please accept my apology.
Wait a second, I think JP buried the lead. Is CBC really looking to start a church in NYC? That is fantastic news. Praise the Lord and buy me a Cannoli. We’ve got blogging material for at least another year.
It is a church plant out of City Bible Church. Ed Shefter (sp?), is the one going out to plant the church. I believe he will be the pastor there.
Stop it. This is too much.
Even Better!
This does change things for me slightly. I was hoping for a NYC simulcast, but I guess it will have to do.
It is the truth! I am not sure who all is going with him but I do know that JR Nunez will be going (sad face).
Apparently they will be renting a space that is right in the middle of downtown NY — right on Wall Street I think.
Okay, now you’re just messing with me aren’t you?
Nope — no jive.
SEINFELD: The Muffin Tops
George and Mary Anne at Monks
Mary Anne: So I notice you don't have much of an accent.
George: Yeah my parents have it. Sometimes it skips a generation.
Mary Anne: Look george, I'm really enjoying spending time with you but I'm not sure this is going to work out. At some point you're going back to your job at Tyler Chicken and your three-legged dog Willie.
George: Willie. Yeah.
Mary Anne: And I'm still going to be here.
George: Well what if I told you I'm thinking of moving here?
Mary Anne: (laughs) George, no offense. But this city would eat you alive.
I’m a bit confused here. (not a revelation, just moreso on this topic)
Utica is a ways away from NYC, so I don’t think it’s entirely damning to JB’s church that CBC is planting another church four hours away. That’s City Church from CBC distance, so it doesn’t seem that one should affect the other.
Just…in all fairness and all.
BTW…JB, I’m glad your youth seem to be so “on fire,” but I have to be honest and say your “no dating” comment threw up some warning flags in my mind. I guess having come out of CBC and all the IC thinking (pun intended!) I grew up in, I’d just rather hear that your youth are kids that are well-founded, truth-seeking, questions-asking, TEENAGE ACTING young people.
Why abstain from dating at a time when it’s important to learn about proper inter-gender relationships? So they can enter college with an overemphasis on “God-focus” and not being able to relate socially? Just weirds me out a bit. If I’ve learned anything in my years it’s this:
BALANCE! Be fervent, but be well-balanced.
Just as I suspected, JP buried the lead.
I heard someone wanted shifty schefter to come and are offering him a building at like a buck a year to rent …
Seriously people, who cares about JB.
Do you understand what is happening here?
City Bible Church of Portland, Oregon is going to start a church plant in Downtown Manhattan (arguably the most expensive real estate in the United States) and they are entrusting this large expensive project to Pastor Ed Schefter.
I haven’t heard anything this exciting since I found out the bar two blocks from my house sells Miller High Life for a $1.
That’s still 75¢ too much for Miller.
i’m just happy for all of those sin-crazy new yorkers… at least, now they will have a chance to experience the same salvation that all of us have taken for granted.
does anyone know if they’re planning on moving the WHOLE church there?
They are getting some sort of really good deal — someone had some contact there (some rich guy — that’s all I know) and they are renting the space for pretty cheap.
And — there is no way they could/would move the entire church there. You cannot convince 3 to 5 thousand west coasters to become east coasters. At least I don’t think you can. I also think total abandonment of an area that they have been “dedicated” to for so long might be considered not a good idea.
Also, I went to NY in September 2006 and passed I think 2 churches in downtown Manhattan that had the same look/feel that I would imagine CBC would have — so I don’t think that NY is completely devoid of Jesus lovers — they have their fair share.
We have churches here but none of the looney fake revival churches lol. Like in Toronto and Seattle and so forth. Please don’t bring that stuff here lol. We have enough to distract us from God’s true purpose for us.
What on earth does a church in New York City have anything to do with a church in Utica…they are like 3 hours apart. New York is a frekin huge state.
Thank you…
Just to clarify, for those who are new to the blog… I may be a bit of an idiot.
You see, when I read that CBC was starting a New York City Church Plant, what I read was a New York – City Church Plant…I thought they were planting a City Church in New York…That is why I chose to bring Utica into things. I now realize my mistake.
Utica and CBC-NYC, please accept my apology.
You say tomato, I say tamato.
I’m still with you on the oddness that CBC would plant a church in Manhattan. Does anyone know if this is being driven by some desire of Ed’s to be in that location? Or was this Frank wanting to extend his kingdom and recruited Ed for the job?
For what’s it’s worth, I bet that Rockefeller guy could work them out another ice-skating rink purchase. (but you’re talking some serious faith harvesting money there!)
Maybe this is more of an Ed thing though? What was that play he ran for so long? “Eternity.” Maybe he’s just trying to get it closer to Broadway!? CBC does “Eternity – the off, off, off Broadway Play!”
Good luck with that!
I don’t know how well things would work out here for them. We tend to see through alot of bull, even at a young age.
My old church here in NYC tried to “bring the revival” back from Toronto and that didn’t work here they way it worked up there.
There’s already a MaFIa church in NYC and one in Queens. This reeks of ego to me.
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Nobody barking like dogs, eh?
Ever see the video filmed at Toronto Airport Christian Fellowship where the guy is making like a chicken, yelling “cock-a-doodle-doo”?
Now there’s a guy I feel motivated to give my tithe to.
‘Scrupe
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Uns dude you don’t know the half. After much pray and guidance and clearly and I realized it wasn’t from God. Very painful for me as a young person to learn that this move of God wasn’t really a move of God but a very great deception. Maybe if I was older when I actually went up there the way I am now (was 16/17 now 23) I wouldn’t have been sucked into it all. The emotional damage and confusion these places/so-called revivals have created for people and certain youth groups can’t even been measured. I know people that are still screwed up and confused til this day including myself. I’m so glad I found this site. I found it while searching for an update on Judah Smith who I saw speak at Toronto when I was a naive 16 year old. As a more educated (in scripture and God’s true will) woman 23 years of age I now see he is a bit of a character.
P.S. Add roaring like a lion, clucking like a chicken, and laughing like a psycho to barking like a dog lol. I don’t know what to make of these thigs because I know some of the people were not faking it, all I can say it was probably the biggest deception of the devil trying to imitate God ever, well one of them.
Does anyone wonder what is the deal with Capital having to start a thing in
Washington D.C. w/ Wendell following and now to invade New York.
i agree w/ previous blogger they have more than enough up there to distract them –Donald Trump’s hair and beauty contests are enough in themselves.
I think the Eternity/Broadway connection is the closest to the truth you’ve found so far. What is it when ministers get bored or tired with their local scene and
peope’s everyday problems that they are either going into politics or business?
Is it a new merit badge to have a place back east these day? AAAAHHH!
Utica and CBC-NYC, please accept my apology.
Really? Well I’m from Utica and I’ve never heard anyone use the phrase “steamed hams”.
Absolutely. This makes no sense. And for that reason, I’m thrilled.
Ed Schefter could get Jesus as his Associate Pastor and this would still fail.
Some “business leader” better get in there and explain to PF how these “church businesses” really work.
I think this just might be the most incredibly hare-brained idea they have ever had. I’m willing to bet you a $1 Miller that it was Ed’s idea, and that he aspires to have Eternity on (off)Broadway. The church thing is just a vehicle to get there. Anyone who has worked with Ed on one of his plays knows that he is tyrannical, hot-tempered, controlling, and oh-so-not-a-people-person. By all means, make him a pastor! And I agree with whoever said it, this seems like one-oneupmanship with the City Church starting a plant in DC. What’s next? Hollywood?
Part of me wants to be angry, but I find it hysterical.
I hate how they try to pass this stuff off as a “vision” from God. They are throwing up these plant churches wayy wayy to fast and not even praying about them or using any type of sense. New York isn’t Seattle, Las Vegas, or even Washington D.C. This hare-brain idea can end up being a major financial loss.
Nothing is a major financial loss as long as their is Faith Harvest!
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JR and Ed – Really? Who ever would have guessed that JR and Ed would have run off together?
Please luv New York and stay home!
Former Inner Circle –do give some insight I felt in prayer that there was
something on that eternity play that let in so much garbage–talk about bad acting!!— it was like actresses screaminng in torment for 2 hours at least at our church. i knew there was something fishy with this but then again we just were always led in certain directions and followed no matter we thought.
Do you know how many staff member this totally burned out during those weeks—countless! please give more insight on this play!!!
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I’m not even sure if I should touch this one. But if the whole premise of the play doesn’t stink to you, then I don’t know what else I can do to help you. The idea of scaring people into Heaven is a poor method of evangelism. It might scare up (pun intended) some converts in the short term, but they have yet to convince me of any evidence of disciples as an outcome of Eternity. I’m sure there have been true commitments to Christ through the Eternity plays. For that, we can at least say that the ends seems to justify the means. But then I’m not God and I’ll leave judgment on that point to Him.
OH, heck, I can’t leave this one alone.
How about the rumor that Ed had several other people help him write some of the scenes? But he alone collects royalties on the play every time it is shown?
Or that the idea is a blatant ripoff of “Heaven’s Gates, Hell’s Flames”. This is a similar ministry that came to visit CBC years ago. They did the same thing with the play and the music, and PF and Ed just decided to steal their idea. Never mind that it’s a poor copy of “It’s a Wonderful Life”, where instead of memorable acting and good feelings, we get fog machines and lots of screaming.
How about CBC charging churches fees to fly in Ed and his crew to do the play? I don’t know how much it is but I doubt that CBC takes a loss on it. I understand people gotta get paid, but it still seems “awkward” to me.
Ed’s long time assistant Ben Malmin is a sincere Christian who simply wants to serve. He comes from CBC royalty (his dad is the dean of PBC) yet he gets treated like a slave. The last time I saw him he looked like he had been hit by a truck and left for dead. He hadn’t seen his family in weeks, and I’m sure he got a servant’s pay to boot. Not exactly a bright career outlook, and it would be nearly impossible for him to leave due to family/church pressures. I don’t know for sure if he’s still doing it or not, but I couldn’t help but feel sorry for the guy for giving up so much for an idea that is ill-conceived albeit well-meaning.
Although it wouldn’t surprise me if someday they changed the line to “Your name is written in the Lamb’s Book of Tithing! Welcome to Heaven!” Oh, see now I went too far.
I have had first-hand experiences with Ed/CBC leadership’s abuse of copyright laws in regards to Eternity. Once upon a time they requested design work for some Eternity logos to be used on t-shirts, which of course they guilted us into giving them at a SEVERELY reduced rate, only for us to find out after the fact (at the event) that those designs had been further applied to peripherals that were being sold at the play (stickers and other stuff). We were furious. That application had never been defined in the scope of the purchase.
Unfortunately, we were younger then, and still susceptible to CBC manipulation, so we never stood our ground and demanded compensation.
I know for a fact at least one other designer that has had this type of experience with Ed. And we’re not talking fuzzy “artistic gray area” here. We’re talking blatant copyright abuse.
I’m not so much bitter about my experience, cause it was years ago, but I will gladly call a spade a spade and say that Ed is as shady a businessman as you’ll ever want to meet. Although maybe that will be an asset to him and his new business, oops, church in NYC!
As long as I have known Ed (many years) he’s had a “call” to New York. He’s always felt like an “East Coaster” (see the comments on Ed’s personality). His involvement in cbc’s drama stuff (and ultimately Eternity) came out of his wannabe New York fetish, not the other way around.
As much of a cash cow Eternity is to cbc, I know for a fact Frank doesn’t want to give it up (Ed “owns” it). IMHO this allows Ed to call the shots on a lot of stuff the other pastors couldn’t get away with. This plant is one of them. Everything he’s done over the last decade has been done with the ultimate goal to get to New York. If CBC had said “no”, I doubt that would have stopped him from starting a church there.
Just my opinion.
Peace
The whole “east-coast v.s west-coast” thing is kind of overplayed. There really aren’t that many differences.
Ed’s problem is that he lacks pastoral qualities. He may be great at scaring people about Hell, but he’s not exactly a warm personable guy, which is kind of what you need to be if you’re going to start a church. Even in hard core, crazy NYC, people still like their pastors to be nice and approachable.
Former Inner Circle
Thank you so much for confirming so much to me. Once again the copyright
issue raises its head or rather more of the truth comes out.
Now I get it if you are valuable it gives you more say to be able to do the things you’d like to do –how many times have I seen this push/pull thing.
Those who are submissive or under in a controlling church are valued less and less and seen as dumb sheep eventually –I’ve witnessed it here. But if you were someone in the Republican Party or Washi
ngton D.C. you were given more value than those who served for years. Wonder what the focus will be in NYC ‘a call to the theatre district’ or how about to ‘Broadway Directors’
and on it goes………
If people were validated for going into their calling or using their gifts and talents in the ‘world’ like Business or Politics or
the theatre than their wouldn’t have to be this russe
which never really fool anyone –least of all the Lord. Do you think?
Schneidt, way to pick a fight with somone on a post that got closed because you wouldn’t leave it alone. If it were up to me, I’d ban you for trolling.
BTW, I’d like to know which University hired you – so I won’t accidentally go there (or send my kids there someday).
As far as prejudging people – you look awfully black to me now, Mr. Pot.
He’s not going to get that quote…he’s going to think you just called him “black”.
Oh Lord watch out.
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I assure you the double meaning was intended. I was just trying to make his wish come true. I’m glad at least someone got my little joke.
No, I probably won’t go to Schneidt1′s school, because I would expect my instructors to be be able to punctuate, capitalize, and spell correctly. The occasional typo is OK, but… “Sircle”? Plus, I’d be worried if he would berate me and grade me down for not talking as white as I look. I really like saying things like “Oh, snap!” “Oh no you di’n't!” “Yo, that girl has a crazy badunkadunk! I’d get wit it!” He probably wouldn’t let me wear my track suit and gold chains to class either.
S,
You missed the satire of my comments. Yes, I stereotyped, but it was you that tried to make the point that people can’t be true to their race without speaking & acting in a manner that is consistent with that culture (a stereotype). My point is that this is just another form of racism. I’m saying you’re full of crap if this is what you really believe, and I wouldn’t want to learn anything from someone who treats people with racism while screaming everyone else is a racist.
I have black coworkers and friends. If I said any of those things they’d probably just laugh at me, but they wouldn’t call me racist. Jesus would probably laugh at me, too for being so fake.
I saw an article in the NY Times today–”$2k A Month Average for Manhattan Studio” it went on to say the avg one bedroom apt is $2,700 and 2 bedroom is $3,900. It reminded me of those headed to NYC.
So I decided to check out the PES blog and it looks like the bus is leaving in two weeks. PES states that CBC gave a love offering of $17k for the team– that’s not going to last very long PES. You will have to start a faith harvest program right when you get to NYC. Frank raises all that money for all of those projects but NYC just didn’t excite the CBC faithful. May the Lord be with you PES and especially those who are going with you!
BURP
(Former Inner Circle Member said: “But if the whole premise of the play doesn’t stink to you, then I don’t know what else I can do to help you. The idea of scaring people into Heaven is a poor method of evangelism.”)
O rly?
Ever read Jude 23? — “save others, snatching them out of the fire.”
Or, the words of Jesus?
43 “And if your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life crippled, than having your two hands, to go into hell, into the unquenchable fire,
44 where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.
45 “And if your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life lame, than having your two feet, to be cast into hell,
46 where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.
47 “And if your eye causes you to stumble, cast it out; it is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes, to be cast into hell,
48 where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.
49 “For everyone will be salted with fire.” (Mark 9:43-49, NASB)
33 “Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?” (Matt. 23:33, AV)
Just asking.
joebib