The Debate…part 1
Posted on March 21st, 2007 by Reformed Pope into the The Debate category My Original response which includes a point by point discussion of this pastors comments were 9 pages long. I don't think anyone wants to read all 9 pages at once (if you do email me and I'll be happy to send it to you). I've decided to break it down into sections to make it easier. Here is part 1.
I. IT IS A LAW OF NATURE THAT THE REAPING SHALL CORRESPOND TO THE SOWING.
This is part of the general law that, other things being equal, the same cause always produces the same effect. There is no known exception to the law of causation; there is no possible evasion of it. We see it plainly working in human affairs. The eternal constancy of nature assures us that the consequences of which certain conduct is known to be the cause will undoubtedly follow (sin, relationships, health, career, finances).
My initial concern is that you start out by relying on an observation of nature rather than the Bible. I would like to believe that we should start with a Biblical foundation and move on from there. Wouldn't you agree?
Although there are many metaphors we can take out of the Old Testament I do not believe it is proper hermeneutics to form a whole doctrine on them without having Jesus or the Apostles make the point somewhere in the New Testament as well.
The special law of sowing and reaping is that the product of the harvest will be the same in kind as the seed sown. Tares will never produce wheat, nor wheat tares. But each seed reproduces its own kind. This is seen in human affairs. Commercial industry tends to commercial wealth, intellectual study to a state of intellectual culture, etc. It is vain to think that money will buy refinement or that learning is the road to wealth. Each pursuit has its own consequences in accordance with its own nature; finances are included in this principle both naturally and spiritually.
I have to stop and ask a question at this point. What is your definition of grace? I believe you would say it is "unmerited favor", correct me if I am wrong. I bring this up for obvious reasons:
Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death…" (i.e. when you "sow" sin "you" reap death), "…but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."
Ephesians 2:8-9 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God- not by works, so that no one can boast. (i.e. we sow sin yet reap life).
How do you see these verses in relation to the "Law of Causation"?
The way I see it, these two scriptures alone refute that "law" and also show the beauty of Christ's message. We must rely on God to save us, despite what we sow. You can sow all the goodness, kindness, finances, time, love, joy, whatever and in the end you will reap death… unless Christ saves you. Isn't this the essence of the Gospel of Jesus Christ in which we both strongly believe?
II. THIS LAW APPLIES TO SPIRITUAL SOWING AND REAPING.
- Here the future depends on the past and present by a certain law of causation. No words could more plainly assert that our conduct is shaping our own fate; and these are not the words of James, but of the Apostle Paul, and they occur, of all places, in the Epistle to the Galatians, where the doctrine of justification by, faith is most vehemently asserted! Moreover, they are not addressed to Jews still under the Law, nor to heathen who have not yet availed themselves of the privileges of the gospel, but to Christians who have come into the justification by faith, as it is to Christians that St. Paul says elsewhere, "We shall all stand before the judgment-seat of God" (Rom. 14:10). We are here reminded that the future consequences of conduct are natural, not adventitious-that they are caused by what we are and do, that they flow of their own accord from our lives, and are not assigned from without by any arbitrary decree. We simply reap what our own sowing has produced for us.
Another scripture to look at:
Romans 3:23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.
Justified freely, I love to hear those words; they tell me the gift is free. Christ, through his work of grace on the cross, has overcome both the laws of nature and the law of causation.
You can also look at it from the other side. Christ "sowed" a perfect life and yet he "reaped" death, mocking, and torture. This should also show that while the "law of sowing and reaping" may be a natural principle, those that believe in Christ are not necessarily bound by "the natural". Actually, salvation and our walk of faith with Christ is a supernatural life from beginning to end.
Also, look at the lives of the apostles. Many went through all kinds of trials and tribulations, despite sowing all kinds of wonderful seeds… why do you think God put them through this?
These are all exceptions to your Rule of Causation and, in my opinion, this Biblical thinking of God's grace through the cross destroys the seemingly airtight logic of "Tares will never produce wheat or wheat tares but each seed reproduces its own kind". Was the rejected, beaten, and crucified Jesus, therefore, a "tare" because He reaped suffering and death?
When we look at it closely, the Law of Causation is actually rooted in pagan religious thought that knows nothing of the reality of the grace of God! It is because the pagan world is under such naturalistic thinking that Christians need to take the Gospel of grace to the ends of the earth.

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March 22nd, 2007 at 3:43 am
Very well said, Johnpaul.
What you wrote above JP reminds me of what Jesus said about planting seed, that unless it fall to the ground AND DIE, it can not grow into a fruit bearing tree … Jesus followed the principle of allowing seed (His very life) to fall to the ground and die, whereupon the Tree/Fruit it grew into was the first born of many brethren, life eternal, unmatched glory, etc. It could be said that He sewed into physical death to reap spiritual life … about the spiritual forces of evil in this world, it could be said that he sewed into surrender to reap victory …
March 22nd, 2007 at 4:40 am
I can’t think of too many things that would be more frustrating then trying to show a “pastor” at CBC that they’re doctrine is wrong.
It’s like trying to convince an aethiest scientist that she is wrong. The majority reason why most aethiests (who are educated scientists) do not accept the evidence of intelligent design, despite seeing it and even documenting it in their own papers, is because the alterative is a lot worse. Even Stephen Hawkings says that the only reason he does not believe in “God”, despite his own theories pointing directly to a supernatural cause to the start of space/time, is because he does not want the implied accountability. He says this in his own book, “A Brief History Of Time”.
Similarily, if a CBC “pastor” ever begins to believe something other then what they are told is true… then what is their alternative? Where would that lead them? They’d be booted out the door.
No, you are not arguing with people of true openness, reason and desire to allow the Holy Spirit to provide correction. These people have unwavering blind faith in what they believe, despite reason to the contrary.
Only the Holy Spirit can open their eyes.
March 22nd, 2007 at 6:18 am
You know what is amazing to me? The fact that so many people who grew up in BT/CBC under their teaching can all leave, go their separate ways, live all over the country and even all over the world, and all of them independently reach similar conclusions about the Truth of the Bible, be in agreement with each other, and yet be completely at odds with the teachings that were so pounded into their brains for years. The only explanation that satisfies such a wild coincidence is that we all have the same Teacher, the Holy Spirit.
People can call us bitter, hateful, etc. all they want. I find great satisfaction and joy knowing that my generation is discovering the Truth for themselves despite all the religious nonsense of the previous generations. I’m sure we’ll have our own set of hangups to deal with, but it is so encouraging to know that in things like this we are united in the Spirit.
Henri, I agree. While I admire JP’s audacity for taking on CBC clergy directly, I think the only thing he has to gain is clarity into his own position on the matter. I highly doubt that he’s about to change
Jack’sthat pastor’s mind on the subject. I suppose we can hope.Also, I would like to add to your argument about sowing and reaping: Faith does not always assure us a fruitful life!
Hebrews 11
March 22nd, 2007 at 8:00 am
Henri, this is dead on. They have no option but to support Pastor Hank…its their job on the line.
FICM,
I realized this when I started emailing. It was interesting however, that many points this Pastor made sounded good when first read, but once I looked closer it became clear that things didn’t line up.
They are real good at coming up with quick answers to appease people, but anyone who is willing to dig deep and try to look at the “Law of Causation” as a whole will clearly see it isn’t Biblical.
March 22nd, 2007 at 9:47 am
RP said: The Debate: Part 1…
RP: Great job! Well put!