Generation Church Backlash
Posted on March 26th, 2007 by Samaritan into the The City Church categoryWell, it had to happen. Generation Churchers, once enamored with Judah for his frank sex-talk, are now divided because of his conflicting messages of “sexual purity” and “the joy of sex”.
Supporters of Judah have donned buttons to voice their support.
A few prefer to conceal their support.
As in every movement, there are the zealots, seen running around the UW campus like 200 lb. canaries.
While the opposition has adopted a singular message of protest.
We can only hope that all the sexual tension at GC won't lead to dancing.
(Nod to CafePress.com for the fine graphics/products).
March 27th, 2007 at 10:21 am
Do you think we could get the items personally autographed?
March 27th, 2007 at 7:10 pm
I don’t think I would feel comfortable undressing so that Judah could sign my thong.
Although, I’m sure he would love it.
April 3rd, 2007 at 5:32 pm
do you guys have no life?
April 3rd, 2007 at 6:12 pm
only a few days a month.. you must have found this blog on an off day.
April 4th, 2007 at 5:49 am
I gave it up for lent.
April 9th, 2007 at 5:59 pm
Things are not always as they appear.
May 6th, 2007 at 10:31 pm
So Your for God or against God lets just say this website answers the question..One day you will have to acount for all this that you wrote in here. When Christ lives in you, there is no one you can hate. Paster Juda is a amazing paster. Well I am here to say that Jesus loves you and when you accept him in your life he will give you love so that you love others.
JUST TO MAKE IT CLEAR
Sexual purity is not having sex before you get married and when Paster Juda talk about the joy of sex its in the content of marraige
May 7th, 2007 at 9:48 am
Actually, I believe Judah will have to account for him not standing up to Wendell Smith, who has decided to allow hungry people in Grays Harbor to go hungry, because Wendell Smith is angry with the Elders of Christian Life Fellowship for removing Doug Cotton, their Senior Pastor.
Why don’t you ask your good buddy Judah WHY he allows his father to let the poor of Grays Harbor GO HUNGRY?
Or maybe you just don’t want to SEE how rotten Judah Smith really is.
May 7th, 2007 at 12:21 pm
RH,
I’m not sure rotten is the appropriate word for describing Judah. He may turn a blind eye to a problem or take the path of least resistance in his ministry (which we all do in life), but that doesn’t make him rotten. I am sure that he is actually do a lot of good for a lot of people, but that doesn’t justify the way in which he runs his ministry as there will be many others who are also led astray by his actions. For that he is held accountable and hopefully he prayerfully considers his actions in light of his responsibility.
May 7th, 2007 at 12:46 pm
Reforming Heathen,
I would disagree with you with your assessment saying Pastor Judah is rotten. I have been in the leadership within the Young Professionals of the City Church (whom Pastor Judah leads), and I can firmly say, he’s not “rotten”. He is a man that loves Christ and people.
However, from what I can see, Pastor Judah is preoccupied with his appearance and loves worldly things (sports), and this is evident in his preaching. Also, his sermons are devoid of topics such as repentance from sins, counting the costs of following Christ, not being a lover of the world, etc.. Instead, he preaches a materialistic gospel that devoid of any conviction.
Anyway, I don’t know if these things are so because of his lack of formal Pastoral education, but it’s sad to hear him misinterpret scriptures and belittle the Word (of course not verbal). Typically, he’s spends 30 seconds reading from the Bible, while taking 1 hour to tell his stories. All I can say is people under his ministry are malnourished - even his leaders! Even with all these ills, he’s not rotten.
Kevin
May 7th, 2007 at 2:10 pm
Rotten is just the latent stage of spoiled …
Sam
May 7th, 2007 at 2:48 pm
rot·ten /ˈrɒtn/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[rot-n] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective, -er, -est. 1. decomposing or decaying; putrid; tainted, foul, or bad-smelling.
2. corrupt or morally offensive.
3. wretchedly bad, unpleasant, or unsatisfactory; miserable: a rotten piece of work; a rotten day at the office.
4. contemptible; despicable: a rotten little liar; a rotten trick.
I repeat, Judah is rotten, as in:
Tainted
Foul
Corrupt
Morally Offensive
Wretchedly bad
Unsatisfactory
Contemptible
and
Despicable.
He allows his father to engage in retaliation against the poor and hungry people who USED to receive food from the city church food bank.
Wendell Smith has denied access to that food in retaliation against the Elders of Christian Life Fellowship because Wendell Smith was angered by those Elders dismissing Doug Cotton as “Senior Pastor” of their church.
Judah undoubtably knows that his father, Wendell Smith, is allowing people to go hungry out of his personal anger at the Elders of CLF.
And THAT makes Judah Smith ROTTEN, as defined above.
May 7th, 2007 at 5:06 pm
Gee whiz Rotten you didnt have to go that far with the logic lol.
“Typically, he’s spends 30 seconds reading from the Bible, while taking 1 hour to tell his stories.”
This is cute when your 13 to 16. It’s outright annoying at 22 to 26 lol. I cant even listen to him preach he goes soo far off into his own nonsense. A story is fine but it should relate to the message/God’s word and not go off into outer space.
May 7th, 2007 at 5:25 pm
Words have meaning.
Rotten has a meaning, several meanings, actually, most of which accurately describe the type of person who would allow his own father to deliberately and intentionally deprive hungry people of food which was donated to his church.
Judah Smith only has two possible defenses:
1. He is ignorant, which means he is an idiot who does not understand what is being done.
2. He agrees with his father’s decision, which is reprehensible and in direct contradiction to biblical teaching.
I’ll let Judah choose which one of these he wants to claim as his own.
May 7th, 2007 at 9:43 pm
Like JS saying “do it like they do it on the discovery channel”. I think that was JS.
I think we should go with ” he is an idiot who did not understand and so he just agreed with his father”
May 8th, 2007 at 7:58 am
Oh, great. Now I have that Bloodhound Gang song stuck in my head. (Which always sort of makes me chuckle.)
-Mr. Coffee (with an automatic drip)
May 8th, 2007 at 4:40 pm
” he is an idiot who did not understand and so he just agreed with his father”
Sounds about right.
May 9th, 2007 at 9:10 am
Wow…..The things young people post these days just astounds me. I mean Hey your bashing on something you know is true b/c Sexual purity is in the bible (before marriage that is), and when a strong leader comes an actually tells you how it is you run scared and write blogs throughout the this website and you ridiculous myspaces. Wow job not well done guys!!! Bravo…. and the sad thing is your really screaming for help, and acceptance, but just come to G.C. and you will get the acceptane your are so hardly searching for. I promise. Just come on in Kirkland Campus is at 7pm and U.d @ 9pm . and also there is our Central District Campus @ 5pm on Thursdays as well as a service @ UD at 7 pm on Thursdays as well.
Come you all it is so much fun!!! The woship is phunominal and messages are life changing. Come Join the Fun Guys.
May 9th, 2007 at 9:22 am
We now return to our regular programming …
May 9th, 2007 at 10:07 am
What you don’t understand Belle is that we all were once a part of the “fun” and would’ve replied to a blog like this with the same programmed response as you and many others have.
I’m sure Judah’s a good guy, who does some good things, but the problem with his preaching is that it centers around Judah Smith, not Jesus Christ. He talks about his time piece affinity or his sex life and how he’s having more fun than all his teenage subjects who are filled with hormones because he’s having sex, and they’re not.
His preaching is all hype with no substance. It leaves you feeling good or feeling hyped up after the service but there’s nothing tangible to them, no concept to grab on to, just some funny stories and an entertaining service. By all means I know it’s fun, but is it really about God? Or is it about Judah and his watches, sex life, and followers? All I can think of when he brags about his “disciples” is the words of Jesus when He asked “if the blind follow the blind, shall they not surely both fall into a ditch?”
Won’t all the followers of Judah fall into the same pit as Judah of wanting to promote themselves, their ministry, and their self-image more than God?
May 9th, 2007 at 11:15 am
I believe Judah will have to account for him not standing up to Wendell Smith, who has decided to allow hungry people in Grays Harbor to go hungry, because Wendell Smith is angry with the Elders of Christian Life Fellowship for removing Doug Cotton, their Senior Pastor.
Why don’t you ask your good buddy Judah WHY he allows his father to let the poor of Grays Harbor GO HUNGRY?
Or maybe you just don’t want to SEE how rotten Judah Smith really is.
May 9th, 2007 at 3:11 pm
It’s called free speech and thinking for yourself! It’s also called having a sense of humor.
There may be different opinions on the subject, but I myself am not arguing against purity and that is not what JS is being “bashed” for. If you will read this very short post again, you will see the point. He speaks of purity, which is great, but then feels the need to elaborate about his own wonderful sex life (his words not mine!), which is just funny and totally unnecessary. So, as stated before, his sermons have no substance and are basically just entertainment.
When I first found this blog I was kind of surprised. But as I read through a few posts, I found that I agreed and I think they are doing a wonderful job. A lot of people find this site helpful for sharing thoughts/flashbacks lol and I think it’s good that the truth can be found here.
Ok, now you have just run of thoughts. Also, I will definitely pass.
May 9th, 2007 at 3:56 pm
Southern Belle
ignore these guys
thanks for ur post
im lost tho were is it??!?
thanks 2 u!
May 10th, 2007 at 12:05 am
Where is the Love?
The bible says honor your father and mother. (it does say you dont have to when you grow up, it means all the time)
May 10th, 2007 at 12:06 am
Where is the Love?
The bible says honor your father and mother. (it does not say you dont have to when you grow up, it means all the time)
May 10th, 2007 at 4:46 am
Hey Roxie,
What do you think about this scripture?
Luke 14:26 If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.
May 10th, 2007 at 9:51 am
Roxie, just to make it clear, neither Judah Smith nor Wendell Smith is my father or mother.
Since you like quotes, here’s one for you:
“For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in”
Matthew 25:35
Obviously, neither Judah Smith nor his father, Wendell Smith, have ever heard the command given in this text, since Wendell Smith denies access to his food ministries because of Wendell Smith’s anger towards the Elders at Christian Life Fellowship, and Judah Smith is undoubtably aware that his earthly father is not doing what his heavenly father ordered.
Here’s another quote that is being ignored by Judah Smith and Wendell Smith:
“Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.”
James 1:27
Judah Smith knows his earthly father, Wendell Smith, is denying food to widows and orphans (And the poor) because Wendell Smith is angry with the Elders at Christian Life Fellowship.
Wendell Smith is doing this out of anger and wounded PRIDE.
And Judah Smith isn’t doing anything about it.
Since both Judah Smith and his earthly father, Wendell Smith love bible quotes so much, here’s one for them to consider:
“He who conceals his sins does not prosper,
but whoever confesses and renounces them finds mercy.”
Proverbs 28:13
So, who’s the sinner?
Judah Smith and Wendell Smith for their direct defiance of God’s word?
Or the people who reveal their sin in this blog?
June 11th, 2008 at 1:16 am
It seems to me that if a church has a food bank it can give it to who ever they want. Its their food to give! A preacher using stories and personal examples to communicate biblical principles is more common in the scriptures than a preacher reading multiple scriptures. Giving to poor people is often a good thing but no where in the bible are we commanded to so. So to say someone is sinning because they make a choice not to direct their help in a direction we believe is a priority is at the very worst something you can personally judge (don’t attend that church) but to say they are in sin would not be a healthy biblical response. I do not attend the City Church and don’t really care for their style but I do think a young preacher /human being like Judah Smith should be judged with a little more humility. Its so easy to be an arm chair critic in this new world of blogs but much harder to get out in the real world and simply hold ourself accountable.
June 11th, 2008 at 11:28 am
Even though i dont attend CBC or TCC or care for this style of youth ministry I think this is lame. I’m not ‘taking sides’ with Judah or MFI or anything like that. The idea of taking sides is silly. I feel very offended by this. The thong and items seems to show immaturity & lack of humility when disagreeing with Judah Smith.
I have no problem disagreeing w/ his theology, style of preaching but nit picking on his clothes is starting to cross the line. This has really crossed the line.
Free speech applies to both sides. I can voice my opinion on being offended too. Yes we all have freedom of speech but lets not misuse it because all of us are accountable to God too. God cares about the things we talk behind other people’s back too.
June 11th, 2008 at 12:00 pm
PM and Nina,
Thanks for bringing this “classic” thread back to the top.
In case it has escaped your attention, this is a PARODY web site.
Christianity would be SO much more interesting and fun if Christians had a sense of humor.
Sam
June 11th, 2008 at 12:41 pm
I loved the Pictures! I get the PARODY! But some of the comments are just reverse prejudice. PARODY FUNNY COMMENTS IMMATURE. I do believe that holiness style preachers seem to cause more harm than good. They send a odd confusing message at times. By their condemning style they set themselves up to always be right and everyone else wrong. When they do stupid things I must confess we all feel a little bit better about being just run of the mill sinners. I just hate to see a kid preacher get railed on. Maybe we all need to be a little kinder to each other. As a Christian pastor of a conservative church I would have to say pulpits in Seattle can be very MEAN for that I apologize. I also agree we need as christians to lighted up and not take everything so seriously. Thank you Samaritan for the challenge to be more fun and interesting!
June 11th, 2008 at 1:33 pm
I never said that parody or humor is wrong. I get it. I love a good laugh. But if its reverse prejudice, it doesnt make it funny anymore. Reverse prejudice is not acceptable.
There is a BIG difference between humor/parody in good taste and crossing the line. I am well aware of what this site is. This is coming from a person that eventually started getting bored by the Generation church hype. I left City Bible.
All I’m asking is to be a notch kinder. For me, when I’m criticizing or talking or laughing or parodying at another believer, I try to pretend that I’m talking about a family member or close relative. Yes, I have lots of crazy family members. Let’s just say that some of them will make Judah Smith look ‘normal’
Since they are family, I’m a bit careful about how I disagree, parody or laugh at them.
Oh yes, please deliver us from the extreme pentecostal holiness preachers. Some of them made me want to confess for sins that I didnt even commit
I remember being paranoid about secular fiction and music. The funny thing was while in PBC I got a serious talk and (sarcastically) my salvation was questioned for listening to Pink Martini and that too I played it quietly in my dorm room because i didnt want to disturb others. One time I read Shakespeare and Gabriel Garcia Marquez and these legalistics viewed me as though I was looking at porn…lol. And I remember actually feeling guilty for it back then.
June 11th, 2008 at 5:59 pm
Here is a funny one about secular books.
I was in the City Church bookstore a few years ago and they had a copy of Tammy Bruce’s “The Death of Right and Wrong”. I had read the book and enjoyed it. However, Tammy is a conservative who is also a feminist, lesbian. I knew how they felt about some things so I wanted to let the people at the bookstore know. I went to the counter with a copy of the book and said, “Hey, don’t know if you are aware but the author of this book is a lesbian.” I went on to let them know that the subject matter of the book was not related to homosexuality and that it was a quality book. I did not want them to get blindsided.
Oh man! I guess Wendell had just preached a series about apostacy/false prophets or something. The woman behind the counter who knew I was not fron TCC began letting me all that Wendell had said about where we get our information from. The woman is/was so sweet but it completely funny to me. I have talked with her a number of times and she is great, but she totally overreacted.
June 11th, 2008 at 6:02 pm
OK. Please excuse my typos in the last post. I am writing from my cell.
June 11th, 2008 at 6:53 pm
Ah. Sorry guys, just got back from 2 weeks vacation with my family in Seattle. Visited one of my daughters in Vancouver - thought about taking a trip across the river to TP some lop-sided boob-like domes there, but resisted the temptation …
Can’t remember what thread it was in, maybe Judah Can’t Pray Naked, but I remember writing something about Judah reminding me of someone I knew 30 years ago who needed to be reigned in by someone older / wiser
- and that I’d surely like him if I knew him personally. That said, having listened to many of his messages, the immaturity of a 20-something really gets on these 52 year old nerves … and my heart just aches on account of the religious culture he’s caught up in - a kind of mutual-admiration society with no real spiritual (maturity) accountability - or so it seems.
So, have you guys bought your Judah thong, yet?
June 11th, 2008 at 9:27 pm
Fred Flinstone, thats crazy but believable. I can tell you many of the things i heard about not listening to secular music at PBC. I can understand why someone would get upset if their neighbor was loudly blasting music with swearing and sexual innuendos. When i was in PBC, we were allowed to have secular music but it had to be played quietly which i can understand. The other stuff about it influencing me was silly.
As for immaturity of Judah Smith, I heard a close friend of mine say that they heard him preach at a leadership conference and he was completely the opposite. She was surprised because she never expected him to be completely serious or matter of fact. I’m wondering whether he acts that way to relate to kids of the GU culture or not to intimidate a 13 year old.
This is not to defend Judah Smith. I don’t know him too well other than conferences. But, here’s one thing I can tell you from personal experience. I am a middle school teacher and one term, I had to teach human sexuality/health or sex ed. I’m doing it because its my job to teach the curriculum.
Try talking about the science and matters of puberty to a group of 20-30 junior high kids. I try to be matter-of-fact, upfront and straight but the kids are giggle each time they hear the word ’sex’ or the name of a body part. Thats typical jr high mentality. Sometimes i wish I could say a couple of jokes to break the ice. One time, the girls and guys were separated and I had to explain about the monthly cycle to the girls. Since it was an all girls enviroment, I started with a tastefel joke about periods. It made them more confortable and it was less awkward for them to ask questions. And it made it easier to carry on with the lesson. Sometimes, i tried to relate it to their age level.
As a teen I didnt have much of a problem with Judah’s messages on sex. In fact as a new believer it was refreshing to know that its okay to have good sex life in the context of marriage and the physical love between husband and wife is glorifying to God. As a non-Christian, you either get the other extreme where sexual sin is looked as alternative lifestyles and being constantly told there’s nothing wrong with premaritial sex but its a choice. But make sure u use condoms. And then on the traditional Christian churches, the view towards sexuality is the other extreme. What a person does with their body matters. Also the Hebrew culture forbade illicit sex but sexuality in a marriage or physical love between a husband and wife was celebrated. Thats why there’s the Song of Songs. Sex or physical love in a marriage context is beautiful.
The only problem I have with the purity messages are that it tends to overlook grace. Purity comes out of recognition of grace and not by works alone. Also they never acknowledge that teen girls face temptation or lust. We were told about emotions but lust never seemed to be an issue with ladies because we’re supposed to naive, gullible and like Snow White. The differences men and women were unrealistic and based on tradition. And some seem unrealistic and romaniticized.
I remember a purity message saying that most men want to get married because they want the physical sex. Whereas, women want to get married because they want a home, family and children and thats what they dream about before marriage.
June 12th, 2008 at 6:57 am
Nina Said:
And then:
Wow! Prior to PBC, I read Marquez (The General in His Labryinth) and thought it was a great book.
I seem to recall (this was in the early 80’s) that we were forbidden to taint ourselves with anything secular. I remember how when a “Christian” themed movie came out, Chariots of Fire; that there was a mass exodus to the theatre as it was approved by leadership. We were allowed to buy popcorn with butter (ok, jk!).
I’m curious how you were found out reading that evil literature. Did someone nark on you? Was it leadership who confronted you? I sincerely mean this not in a disparaging way but it is going to offend some - my experience at PBC was that the majority of students were not an intellectually literate group. Again, sorry if I offend someone. I admire you though for breaking the bubble, so to speak; and expose your intellect to the secular world.
Those are perceptions from attending PBC more than 20 years ago. I think I kept my Student Handbook somewhere as now it seems to unreal.
I can’t recall - maybe someone can help me - but I believe it was R.C. Sproul who said on a broadcast that Ernest Hemingway was a great author and every Christian should read and be familiar with his work. Wonder how that would be viewed, especially with his suicide.
June 12th, 2008 at 8:07 am
Nina wrote:
“As for immaturity of Judah Smith, I heard a close friend of mine say that they heard him preach at a leadership conference and he was completely the opposite. She was surprised because she never expected him to be completely serious or matter of fact. I’m wondering whether he acts that way to relate to kids of the GU culture or not to intimidate a 13 year old. ”
Listening to him at GC and listening to him at their YP ministry: two different communicators. I know when you mix junior high - college in the GC model that a person communicating tries to find a relatable balance between the three age groups. Not very easy to do..
June 12th, 2008 at 8:23 am
How about being yourself, genuine, and following in the tradition of the elders by being an elder / fatherly? Why not set an example of maturity / adulthood for those who are immature?
June 12th, 2008 at 9:11 am
“How about being yourself, genuine, and following in the tradition of the elders by being an elder / fatherly? Why not set an example of maturity / adulthood for those who are immature?”
My comment was not about him being immature. Judah is far from immature in his communication style or in life for that matter. Though when communicating to a 13year old you are not going to communicate the same was you would to a 33 year old. I say as a preacher it is our job to try to take what could be complicated and make it non-complicated as possible without destroying the meaning of the scriptures. Have you ever tried to teach or preach Romans 6-8 to a bunch of junior high students? Not that easy..
June 12th, 2008 at 2:05 pm
FormerPBCPrez,
I understood that generally speaking PBC isn’t an intellectually focused atmostphere and while I was there I mostly kept it to myself but sometimes it leaks since PBC is such a small place.
There, intellectualism especially does not apply to young ladies. It seemed that my role as a woman of God was to be a pretty decoration among the pews, or marry a leader and be a ‘first lady’ type or CBC princess.
I discussed mostly w/ 3 others into intellectual conversations. I avoided it with others. I have family members and close friends that could care less about literature. I don’t look down on them for that. They occasionally tease me but at least they don’t look at me as a ‘lesser’ Christian.
I think someone narked on me and exagerrated it way out of proportion. Back then, I used to meet weekly or so with my mentor. My mentor hears the exagerrated version and has a talk with me about it. She doesnt forbid me but warns me about it. I can see where she’s coming from. I politely disagreed and did what I believe was right with thought and prayerful consideration.
June 12th, 2008 at 2:42 pm
I have to agree with Help Me. There is a difference between that and trying to relate to a 13 year old. At that age, they want a person that can understand them and relate to their level rather than a prissy, distant, adult that’s way over them. I dont think some of you sound like you have been in front of 30+ teenagers. My junior highers like their teachers to be the cool teacher but yet be a responsible adult.
In order to set an example of adulthood and maturity, the first thing I do is to be able to relate to their level and then encourage mature behavior.
I wouldnt teach junior high kids the same way I would teach a college class. I wouldnt give the same type of assignments or activities or approach it the same way. I have age-appropriate activities which they love and sometimes I join in with them. That doesnt mean I’m not a mature adult.
I’m not going to call Judah Smith or anyone immature or criticize their character unless I know him well enough. I’m going to have the benefit of doubt and believe that’s his way of trying to relate to kids. He’s not perfect but neither are we.
June 12th, 2008 at 3:09 pm
Most of the messages I’ve heard Judah preach, his audience has been college-age. His bathroom humor is fit for pubescents but his audience is adult … my wife teaches high school, I’m in the classroom p/t as a volunteer aide. My experience is, IF you drop to their level like some over-aged kid, you lose their respect and the class becomes unmanageable … Judah talks like he’s class clown sometimes … and his example encourages the kids to be childish …
June 12th, 2008 at 7:59 pm
Nina,
I can relate! I used to teach junior high and also taught health/sex ed. Quite the experience! Ironically, I did that while I was in CBC and single (e.g., I was a total square), and my kids were pretty high-risk, so needless to day, my students had much more sexual experience than I did. I literally couldn’t even say “penis.” I had my guy friends, from CBC, come in and teach the male anatomy lessons, that’s how square I was. And, of course, I giggled in the corner over the “worlds colliding” of having my CBC friends talking about penises to my middle-schoolers, which cracked my students up. My students and I did have excellent conversations about sex, though, especially the non-physical parts, about the emotional and relational implications. I think I was able to illuminate them in those areas, even though I was too squeamish to talk male anatomy. Also, when I drew a diagram on the board that illustrated how sleeping with even one person exposes you to all the STD’s (not to mention the SOULS) of everyone that person has slept with (and those that THOSE people have slept with), the room was full of dropped jaws and dead silence. So, I think I got through on some counts. I tried to use Josh McDowell’s “Why Wait” stuff, but only some of it was helpful. Tragically, most of my students had been molested very early in life, and never even knew they had the option of saying NO, so they typically hadn’t. It was challenging, but also rewarding. I sure have some hilarious stories from those times, though, that I still tell at dinner parties. I bet you do, too.
I can also relate to PBC’s non-academic, non-intellectual culture. I had my B.A. and teaching license when I attended PBC, so I was not there for the “academics.” That climate (meaning PBC/CBC/MFI) just does not encourage critical thinking. The fear is that if we expose people to things (literature, music, etc.), they will be tainted by them. Craziness. I think the real fear is of losing power and control over people, and the possibility that “the church” may “look bad” if people deviate from the church’s norms. I’m not “an intellectual,” but I’m well educated and believe that Christians are the only people truly capable of being free thinkers, that we are to love the Lord with all of our minds (and that doing so requires using our minds to the fullest extent possible). Anyway, at PBC, the people I clicked with were intelligent, critical thinkers, who loved God with their hearts AND minds, regardless of age. Only one or two of the PBC faculty fell into cateogry while I was there (early 90’s), at least based on my experience.
The gender roles taught and assumed at PBC also struck me as unbiblical and unrealistic. Totally! I have lots of stories about that, both from PBC and TCHS. Maybe another day. So, Nina, I’m agreeing with you on nearly all fronts today! Hope you feel totally validated now.
Cheers.
June 12th, 2008 at 10:45 pm
“The gender roles taught and assumed at PBC also struck me as unbiblical and unrealistic. Totally! I have lots of stories about that, both from PBC and TCHS. Maybe another day. So, Nina, I’m agreeing with you on nearly all fronts today! Hope you feel totally validated now. ”
hehehe…I totally do. Hugs. Thanks. I’d love to hear some of the stories. I hope you can sometime. Actually, there are a few of us that laugh hard at the ridiculous gender roles.
June 13th, 2008 at 12:21 pm
Where is the unity in all of this? Yes, there is the local church. It does its best job to represent the universal church which is the body of Christ. Each local church does this in a manner to the best representation they believe the local church should look like. I believe they are all dear to God. But instead of fighting pricipalities and powers, you sit in a chat room and wrestle flesh and blood. You try to break scripture off like you know what you are talking about, but it sounds silly and offended. Those that are bible - based, spirit focussed churches shoudl come together and unite and wrestle the enemy to win the lost. Not sit in a chat room and blog about whats wrong with each church. Bet if I knew you well enough, I could rag on you also. I know someone could me. That’s why I extend mercy when I want to judge. Judge not lest you be judged with the same measure. I would rather get to heaven and stand before God and say, “I mainted a focus of the plank the whole time,” rather than get there and have Him be upset because I only focussed on the spec. Think about it!!!
June 13th, 2008 at 1:44 pm
I nominate this for COMMENT OF THE MONTH. Well done.
Wait…that could be the comment of the month.
**WARNING** A SCRIPTURE WAR FOLLOWS…PLEASE BE AWARE AND USE CAUTION!!!
Judge Not? Well 1 Cor 6:2-3 says:
June 13th, 2008 at 8:11 pm
llistenup,
Just a little advice from a non-theologian, non-intellectual, novice just been watching from the stands blogger, take it for what it is worth … just trying to help us all get along … if you are going to come into the blog with both guns a blaz’n, it is probably a good idea to have bullets in your gun.
Let me keep you from getting “clowned” around here. Double back, do some research on previous posts, follow them through, read up, do your due diligence … don’t be so quick to judge. C’mon, don’t just walk in and start blast’n away … somebody is going to get hurt.
just trying to help
ICE
June 17th, 2008 at 10:52 pm
Oh Lord here we go again! Each one of these dumbags who comments thinks they are the only one to come up with this stuff. I mean really…do they think they are the only ones who have read the Bible? Enough with the “plank in the eye” argument and the “judge not” line or the “don’t divide the church” complaint. It’s all been said and argued before.
LISTEN UP all you haters. Please spend some time and read through the years of posts that are on here before you come in all fired up blasting this blog about how unbiblical it is. We really don’t care. If you’re not going to take the time to try and understand why this blog even exists (yet alone why it gets hundreds of hits a day) then we are not going to take the time to deal with your hypocritical judgement of judging people who judge. It’s just so very old and unoriginal.
July 14th, 2008 at 8:54 am
Judah Smith has been in Sydney the past week. He preached at Hillsong Church the Sunday before last, then was at the Hillsong Conference all last week. I saw him preach a couple of times.
One of his talks was about his book ‘Dating Delilah’ and purity. While he is a very entertaining speaker, it was a very shallow sermon. He had a grab bag of out of context Old Testament quotes, that had nothing to do with purity and his book, but he did have some funny stories about his life. There was no hard content.
Of far more interest was his appearence at the final 7:30pm Friday rally of the Conference. A Hillsong singer/preacher Mike Guglielmucci, who was diagnosed with terminal cancer two years ago (and given six months to live) gave a short sermon about his sickness and his battles and how he wanted, (he said he was being a bit selfish), to be healed. After he sang a song he had written ‘You’re my Healer’ (which he wrote the day he was diagnosed), Judah walked onto the stage, said a prayer for Michael, then dramatically laid his hands on Michael. As the singers and Brian Houston rushed over to join in and also lay on their hands, Judah prayed to Jesus for Michael to be healed to the claps and cheers of the 20,000 people in the Acer Arena (including me who was caught up in the moment).
It was not a spur of the moment healing and was obviously rehearsed. For Mike Guglielmucci’s sake I hope he was healed. If I hear anything i’ll post it here.
July 22nd, 2008 at 1:50 pm
“So practice and obey whatever they tell you, but don’t follow their example. They crush people with unbearable religious burdens and never life a finger to ease the burden”
In face chapter 23 is very interesting to read and study.
The point I want to get out is this: The truth is people like this will come. There’s no doubt about it. But I refuse to point my fingers at them and ridicule them. Jesus says “So [You] practice and obey” with an emphasis you “practice and obey”. We all work out our own salvation within the context of the church which is will be joined to Christ.
The fact remains. All of our identities are hidden. No one would be foolish enough to post their own personal information on a site like this because we still very much like our flesh. We care about our own dignity and reputation. So when people who are actually making a difference in this world come along, who actually help build the church of Christ, as imperfect as it may be, but they actually “practice and obey” what they’ve been taught, instead of sitting at home, writing empty blogs criticizing the very men and women who are devoting their entire lives for people.
How easy is it to point our fingers at others, especially those in authority. Jesus says pray for those who are in authority. Government, church, wherever. Sure no one’s perfect. I’m not perfect. Big surprise. We’ve all fallen short of the glory of God. Pastor’s are in fact people. I bet you would be the people writing blogs on King David when he killed Uriah and slept with his wife. You would point out everything wrong with them.
The fact is, as mature believers and those who are maturing daily, picking up our cross, daily. We must know that everyone is prone to weakness and everyone is tempted according to their own desires. Pastor Judah likes clothes, who cares; you may like to look at pornography in your room alone, but lucky you, your identity is hidden and your probably doing squat for the kingdom of Heaven.
In conclusion, why waste time writing about and pointing out other’s faults. My mother always told me, when you point your finger at somebody else, your in fact point 4 fingers directly at yourself. Remember the point is “practice and obey” not “point out and discuss”. Go buy a coffee for a stranger, when they ask you why your doing that, tell them about how much God has given up for you, and how much He loves them. Start a bible club. Start a cell group. Get plugged into a church. Do something! Quit being parasites and sucking up everything you want and need from local churches, and then go about talking filth about them.
Thank you.
July 22nd, 2008 at 3:37 pm
This is great. I will probably use this in an upcoming post.
About your post, there really isn’t much to respond to because you sound like every other mindless follower trying to stick up for your hero. Because this blog does not exist for you none of us really care that you hate what were doing. The fact that you think that buying coffee for a stranger or joining a cell group will solve all these problems shows just how confused you are. You may assume we are all just a bunch of “parasites” sitting around in our parents basements looking for every chance to attack churches and church leaders, but its actually quite the opposite. Most bloggers on here are smart, witty, educated people who have the balls to stand up to corrupt religion and say, “enough is enough.” Just because you like to fall in line with the masses and believe in preachers who are a mile wide but an inch deep, preaching out of wack messages on works and performance, doesn’t mean we all should. Its time for the church and church leadership to be held accountable for their actions. For decades people have sat on the sidelines taking abuse and biting their tongues, all in the name of being a “good Christian.” Well no more of that. Do a little research before you come out full guns blasting. There are blogs, websites, and even entire ministries dedicated to the purpose of stopping the lies and false doctrines coming from CBC type churches. So as your mom pointed out, try not to criticize others for the same thing your doing unless you are sure you’re doing it right. Doesn’t give you much credibility.
July 22nd, 2008 at 4:02 pm
Matthew 23:3,
In context, Jesus was speaking at a time when the temple worship/law was still operating. That time passed when Christ died on the cross and the temple veil was torn from top to bottom. I’m accountable to my Leader for my obedience. See Matthew 23:10
Philippians 2:12 tells us to “work out your salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.” Notice the different ‘context’ from what you wrote?
As for being a parasite and sucking up what I want and need from the local church…..my experience is kind of the other way around.
To practice and obey is a good thing, but make sure they are things Christ actually taught. See Matthew 28:18-20.
July 31st, 2008 at 7:28 am
And you’d be cool with it?
July 31st, 2008 at 7:32 am
DOC,
King David was annointed by God. Haven’t you heard the verse, “Touch not they Annointed!” If Kind David feels the best way to minister to his people is to kill them and sleep with their wives, then who are we to judge. Name me 5 Kings, no 1 King, in the History of the World who is perfect. You can’t! So please, get over your bitterness, and just leave King David alone.
July 31st, 2008 at 8:27 am
Touche. I’m just glad I got virtual brothers like you to correct me when I walk off the straight and narrow.
But seriously, the idea that it would have been improper to critize King David for impregnating another man’s wife and killing her husband is beyond bizarre. Actually, it is scary if that kind of deference to authority is actually at the root of all this.
July 31st, 2008 at 8:46 am
Yeah, there’s a balance there somewhere. But I don’t think that commenter has found it. I’m not sure I’ve found it either. However, I’m confident that condoning murder isn’t acceptable.
July 31st, 2008 at 9:25 am
Five reasons this blog is important.
1. Satire - Is a great way to get to the core (preachers use it all the time) it works
2. Debate - Is always a healthy. It forces all side to think
3. Reform - The difference between Christianity and other faiths is that Christianity is a self correcting religion. We respect authority but we respect truth even more.
4. What’s good for the goose- City church and any church for that matter routinely correct peoples beliefs and the beliefs of other churches.
5. Free speech - Is the truest and simplest way to bring balance to the powers that be. If city church is a power that BEEES it needs to be talked about.
Blog creator I salute you - most ministries are birthed out of something they want to change and are courageous enough to speak up about. Including City Church. Pastors don’t have a God given right to speak their mind more than commoners. I say cheers to you (bad ass of the blogging world)
August 22nd, 2008 at 12:49 am
Michael Guglielmucci has admitted that he faked his cancer struggle. Not fair on Judah Smith and thousands of other people who prayed for him.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24216087-5006787,00.html
August 22nd, 2008 at 6:53 am
Why are these high profile Christians so damn nuts?
They’ll stop at no lengths to make themselves seem important and inflate their wallets in the process. It’s astounding.
August 22nd, 2008 at 1:53 pm
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