“Senior…(snicker)…Pastor”
Posted on April 15th, 2007 by Reformed Pope into the N.Y.C.C. categoryFirst let me say Locutus, our thoughts and prayers are with you.
Now let's get on to the New York City Church…or more appropriately, p.e.s. (I do believe that stands for Pastor Ed Schefter…I know…we're off to a great start). When Lurker first sent us the link to the New York City Church he promised "blogging material for months to come", well that is probably a stretch…wait…NO IT ISN'T. I'm quite sure "Senior Pastor" Ed Schefter is going to give this blog the boost it has needed. And to start we get to pick apart The Story.
Ok, at this point let me make a few disclaimers. I don't personally know "Senior Pastor" Ed Schefter. I have never dealt with him, and am not really qualified to talk about him personally. However, we can blog about anyone from CBC on this site and inevitably someone will come to their defense…with one exception…"Senior Pastor" Ed Schefter…we are yet to have someone stick up of him…hopefully that will change soon.
*Update, after some thought, Tim Nashif is probably the only person who gets less respect from the CBC faithful than Ed Schefter…"Senior Pastor". My apologies Ed, I had you at #1, but I think #2 is more appropriate.*
Now, rumor has it that a family member of ours is going to be joining the NYCC team and by looking on the website a couple old friends of mine are also going…I was advised to leave this topic alone, but that wouldn't be fair to our readers. Hopefully they can understand that I am the same ass-hole I was a week ago, it's just that now I'm picking on a subject a little closer to home. I wish them the best of luck, may God bless and prosper your trip, none of this is meant to be a personal attack against you.
Right… back to "The Story". I'm skipping ahead to where Ed talks about the Eternity play because that's the part the first caught my eye. We've discussed this play at length in the past so if you need to get caught up click here then here and here. Here's what Ed has to say:
In 1994, Heather and I got married, and at that time both felt the desire to have four children, and a call to Senior Pastor some day. Shortly after, Pastor Frank, encouraged me to write an evangelistic drama for our church, and at first, I really had a hard time with it. After going away to pray about it, I came up with the concept for ‘Eternity,' and a year later we did our first Eternity Production at Bible Temple, later to become City Bible Church. Eternity was so successful that soon after, other churches wanted to do the same.
Ed, you little sh*t. I'm sorry, but honestly, when I read that that is the first thing that came to my mind. I started rolling on the floor laughing and saying "Ed, you little ____". Is he for real?
"AFTER GOING AWAY TO PRAY about it, I CAME UP WITH THE CONCEPT FOR ETERNITY"…you have got to be kidding me, right? He doesn't actually believe that "a play about people dying and either ending up in heaven or hell" was his concept does he? That little sh*t. And to follow that statement up by saying "other churches wanted to do the same" is absurd…No Ed, that's what you and City Bible Church did.
Unless by "concept" he means "decided to steal the play 'Heavens Gates Hells Flames', rename it, and do a better job at marketing" than he is full of it. I guess I can see how a guy like Ed would be able to lie himself into believe that it was his idea, but I certainly hope that no one else buys it. J.R., Andy, anyone?
Furthermore, the fact that he says "After going away to pray about it…" should disqualify him from "Senior Pastor" status right there. Its one thing to lie, but it's a whole nother thing to make God a liar. Ed, God didn't tell you to steal another church's play and take credit for it…it's not in His nature.
I'd be concerned if this was the guy leading me…how could you take him seriously? Here is how I picture a conversation between "Senior Pastor" Ed Schefter and Anyone Else going:
SPES: I just heard from God, he wants us to move to N.Y.C.
AE: Uh, Ed, was this the same God you talked to about the Eternity play, or a different one?
SPES: What are you talking about, there is only one God.
AE: That's what I was afraid of. Count me out.
One last quick note: What is the deal with Ed's love for the term "Senior Pastor"? If you read through all his material you will see he gets real exited about it. Also, I'm not so sure the average person in NYC is gonna know who Frank Damazio is…so all that name dropping probably won't do you much good once you leave Portland.
Anyway, best of luck, we here at City Business Church hope you can provide us with many more years of blogging material.
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April 15th, 2007 at 8:17 pm
Hey, just change the color of the lights a little and it’s not copyright violation. Is it?
lol.
The word “Senior Pastor” is nothing more then a christianized version of “Senior Executive” or “Chief Executive Officer”. Call it what you will, it’s simply a title of power, meant to be worn by a person who craves such things.
April 15th, 2007 at 8:36 pm
God I love the internet.
www.edschefter.com
Anyone have any ideas?
April 15th, 2007 at 8:38 pm
I am now remembering a story told to me by my recently departed friend David Andrew.
1 or 2 years ago, David went up to CBC for a healing conference they were putting on. After the meeting ended David went to the back of the church and spoke with Frank Damazio. I can’t remember exactly what Frank told him, but the funny part is that as soon as Frank walked away, Ed Schefter rushed right up, said “That was a thus saith the Lord”, gave a little bow, and scurried after PF.
I think that helps clear up who Ed was “hearing” when he came up with the Eternity Concept.
April 15th, 2007 at 8:39 pm
God I love Henri the Great. Brilliant.
April 16th, 2007 at 12:07 am
This is the first time in a while I’ve laughed really hard at what you guys wrote. I mean, it’s all funny… but this is just so hilarious. Oh man. Wow. I kept thinking I could stop laughing, but the funny just went on and on till the end of this post.
Is it just me, or does anyone else think Ed looks like he’s a part of the mafia? I mean, that facial hair and just the way he stands around with that important stance. But that’s the impression I always got.
This one is great. You made me laugh, furiously.
April 16th, 2007 at 5:41 am
RP - you sure that’s not Señor Pastor?
Funny, Henri!
April 16th, 2007 at 6:31 am
Hahahaha…. This is one of our best.
Brilliant Post.
Brilliant Website.
I think I smell a lawsuit coming.
April 16th, 2007 at 7:03 am
GAG
p.s. I always thought spes (or spas??) let WAYYYYYY too much of his effeminate side hang out.
p.s.s. mark estes told me that spas’ play was NOT stolen from heaven’s gates…. it is Bible and God’s Word and there is NO copyright on the Bible or God’s Word….. SO THERE
GAG
April 16th, 2007 at 7:24 am
One Heimlich Maneuver for Living Life, please!
April 16th, 2007 at 7:34 am
Henri, you are freaking genius! ROTFLMAO!!
I don’t have much nice to say about Ed, so all I can do is feel sorry for the other people placing themselves under him. Especially in such an “intense” city such as NYC! God help you all…literally!
April 16th, 2007 at 8:13 am
Lawsuit:
I heard that the sponsors of Heaven’s Gates/Hell’s Flames thought about suing City Bible for taking their play without giving them credit for it, but decided not to since they took Paul’s admonition against Christians suing other Christians seriously (I Corinthians 6).
Relationships in Tinsel Town:
I can’t see how a church in NYC is going to be able genuinely to be a “relational” church (per their website) if the foundation upon which it is built is IMAGE and IMAGE endorsements. In my view, Christians cannot enjoy genuine, healthy relationships in an atmosphere of hierarchy or glitz/glamor/tinsel. When one thinks about it, however, that’s what Christian showbiz is all about; it’s essentially no different than what happens in “Hollyweird” (Michael Medved).
I hope that this desire that Ed says he has had for thirty some years to plant a church in NY is really from God and not just a desire to live close to Rockefeller Plaza or meet those who work on Madison Avenue. God only knows.
No Simulcast to New York!?
I wonder why Pastor Frank Damazio doesn’t just institute a Faith Harvest Offering at CBC in the spring, like his Faith Harvest offering every autumn, to pay for a simulcast church link to NY via satellite?! That way he would not have to lose Jack Louman, his right hand man; Ed Schefter, his stage director, and Mark Jones, a faithful supporter as well as a great one-on-one evangelist. Why not, Pastor Frank?
April 16th, 2007 at 8:22 am
23 Wall St.
Yup, that Wall St., in the middle of Lower Manhattan. A few blocks away from Ground Zero. For those of you who have never visited NYC, this is right in the heart of the financial & commercial district and probably has the highest lease rates of any part of the city. Very few people actually live in this neighborhood because it is so expensive. Only the truly wealthy can afford to live in lower Manhattan, so it’s clear which demographic NYCC is trying to attract. Second, this is over 6 miles from the theater district on Broadway, the one place that SPES is trying to “reach”.
Which makes me ask: Where are they getting the money to lease and remodel space in the former offices of JP Morgan?
CITY BIBLE CHURCH MEMBERS! YOUR PASTOR WILL NOT PAY OFF THE DEBT OF YOUR CHURCH BUT WILL PAY TO SPONSOR A NEW CHURCH IN AN EXPENSIVE DISTRICT OF A LARGE CITY 3000 MILES AWAY.
On a related note, I know quite a few of the team moving out there. Most of them have only lived in suburban Portland, mild-mannered places like Milwaukee and Vancouver. Do they really have what it takes to live in one of the biggest cities in America? Find jobs, places to live, etc. Wow. Good luck to them, they are going to need it.
April 16th, 2007 at 8:39 am
Go to newyork.craigslist.org and start looking for apartments.
If you actually want to live in Manhattan, it’s going to cost you about $2200 a month for a 1br apartment.
Good Luck, is right.
April 16th, 2007 at 8:46 am
Rumor has it that someone is leasing the space to them for $1 for the entire first year. Lets see…that would put the over/under at about 13 months.
April 16th, 2007 at 8:54 am
Some of you may remember something called “Main Street” before the CBC adults merged with the high schoolers to create Gen Church. Steve Trujillo had a vision to reach Portland young adults in downtown Portland right next to PSU. PF was so smitten with the idea that he took up a special offering, and the church miraculously coughed up a pledge of $100k that night. It was a huge success and it had a weekly attendance of over 300 20-somethings. When the lease came up for renewal, PF balked at the idea of paying $10k a month and killed the entire program instantly.
If the rumor is true, then SPES better hurry up and get some funding because if history is any indicator, NYCC is doomed.
April 16th, 2007 at 9:00 am
I have not heard that Mark and Susan Jones are going to join the spas in nyc.. perhaps they are on the “board” locally for them ??
I couldnt imagine yacky jacky going either…
Who knows…
April 16th, 2007 at 9:02 am
From what I understand, both the Jones and Loumans will be on the eldership board for the first year. They will commute back and forth between Portland and NYC during that time. After the year is up NYCC will replace them with elders of their own (or pack things up and head home).
April 16th, 2007 at 2:28 pm
Former Inner Circle Member wrote:
CITY BIBLE CHURCH MEMBERS! YOUR PASTOR WILL NOT PAY OFF THE DEBT OF YOUR CHURCH BUT WILL PAY TO SPONSOR A NEW CHURCH IN AN EXPENSIVE DISTRICT OF A LARGE CITY 3000 MILES AWAY.
David Mackin writes:
CITY BIBLE CHURCH MEMBERS! YOUR PASTOR WILL NOT PAY OFF THE DEBT OF YOUR CHURCH BUT WILL PAY TO PURCHASE NEW SIMULCAST CAMPUSES FOR MOTHER CHURCH NOT MANY MILES AWAY.
What is wrong with this picture? In real estate acquisition, it is common to use the market value of one property as leverage to acquire another property, and then to use the value of those two properties to acquire a third property, etc., etc. From my viewpoint, it would not make sense (even to a “frustrated businessman” like Frank) that he would give the church plant money as a gift and not require it to be eventually paid back and/or require the new church plant to pay a monthly franchise fee (”dues”) for using the name “City.” I do not know how they handle such matters, but, either way, it is all done without ever obtaining any official permission from the congregation.
Vancouver Campus:
An active CBC member recently told me that CBC went $2,000,000 over budget on their recent Vancouver (WA) campus acquistion. If true, Pastor Frank will probably be looking into his black bag of Bible fund-raising gimmicks, in addition to the “Faith Harvest Offering” and the “No-sacrifice Tithe,” to see what new giving spell he can cast onto the already overly-fleeced flock.
Pictures of Fleecing the Flock:
Speaking of fleecing the flock, did I ever tell you that at one time Frank had 2-3 pictures (between his church office and his residence in Eugene, Oregon) of shepherds fleecing sheep? To me, the tragic prophetic irony could not be any clearer. One mistake I made, however, was that I never asked Frank who gave those flock-fleecing pictures to him - and why. Was a congregation member trying to use such art to communicate a certain message to Pastor Frank? Maybe. I also never inquired as to whether Frank just bought several of such pastoral scenes for himself because he considered them good art or if he emotionally identified with them in some way.
Come to think of it, most, if not all, of the Christian art that I remember seeing of Jesus have been pictures of him carrying the weak lambs, guiding his flock with his staff, or rescuing his sheep from the thorn bush. I’ve never seen a picture of Jesus fleecing his flock, have you?
April 16th, 2007 at 3:26 pm
My guess is that it’s already underway. According to CBC’s website, it looks like Pastor (Senior Pastor?) Rick Snow just gave a sermon titled “The Generosity Factor” and if I remember correctly this is the same sermon he gave last year…I’ll look it up.
April 16th, 2007 at 3:32 pm
Yup. Just as I thought. Rick Snow gave a sermon at CBC last year titled….”The Generosity Factor” (what a shock) which I blogged about already. It should be fun to compare and contrast this years version.
April 16th, 2007 at 3:44 pm
Surely you’re not complaining about “repeats”, RP?
The blog rarely ever deviates from “The Stupidity Factor” and “The Gullibility Factor” messages.
April 16th, 2007 at 8:56 pm
I’m drowning my sorrows in tiny bubbles right now.
April 16th, 2007 at 9:16 pm
Does Frank also get a townhouse in NYC? Is this How to become a millionaire or
an episode of American Idol? I can’t tell the difference.
April 17th, 2007 at 7:05 am
I’ve recieved a couple of emails saying they couldn’t find Ed’s quote in the N.Y.C.C. website so here is where it is:
Go to Who We Are click on My Story and scroll down to the 6th paragraph and there it is. I actually encourage you to read the whole story there are quite a few gems I didn’t have time to include in my blog.
April 22nd, 2007 at 9:35 pm
“In my view, Christians cannot enjoy genuine, healthy relationships in an atmosphere of hierarchy or glitz/glamor/tinsel. ”
I live in NYC and it IS possible. Possible but VERY rough to develop healthy genuine relationships PERIOD, christian or non-christian. Problem here is that while your average person living in a small town has everyday problems/objects to distract him from God we have that time 20 to distract us from God. It’s one thing when you have tv, friends, and so forth distracting you. Now try adding some of the best museums, nightclubs, bars, restaurants, hot men and women ( LOL)and so forth in the world in a rush-rush COMPACT environment and living wholly for God at the same time. It’s rough. I remember when I went down south on vacation and my and my family went to a genuine honest God-fearing/loviing church where the word was truly going forth and people were truly praying and I realized: We have no churches like this in New York. Maybe one or two but most of them up here are: go in, get out, live your life. And those one or two are not in the city area they are either upstate or on Long Island. It’s like that with relationships here too. Hard to have something genuine. Down there it was different. People really cared about people and developed relationships and really tried to help others grow in God.
I remember a pastor saying once: “If there is a revival in the 21st century it will NOT be in any of the entertainment capitals of the world.” (NY,LA,etc.) He was right.
April 23rd, 2007 at 2:02 pm
Jennifer said re healthy rel’s in NYC: Possible but VERY rough to develop healthy genuine relationships PERIOD, Christian or non-Christian.
Jennifer: Thank you for balancing out my rather black and white statement about relationships in tinsel towns! I value your point of view since you live in NY and can speak out of your own personal experience. May the Lord grant you many exceptions to the rule!
By the way, since you live in the Big Apple, what do you think it would take to make a church at 23 Wall Street a real spiritual success? (I’m referring to Ed Shefter’s church plant there, bringing the Eternity play with him.)
April 23rd, 2007 at 2:32 pm
“By the way, since you live in the Big Apple, what do you think it would take to make a church at 23 Wall Street a real spiritual success? (I’m referring to Ed Shefter’s church plant there, bringing the Eternity play with him.)”
Wow…..for where do I begin? I will get back to you on this because I’m going to have to really sit and think about it. 23 wall street, why don’t they just ask for a spot on the floor of the stock exchange. They are not going to get the traffic that they want for their purposes. Do they want a church full of single competitive Type A personality professional librels because this is what that area attracts If so their ENTIRE way of doing things has to change. The brainwashing tactics of the likes of him and J.S will NOT work on this crowd. I will be back later to explain more in full.
April 23rd, 2007 at 5:16 pm
Me thinks they just wanna usher people through the doors with $$$$$$$$$$$$
May 2nd, 2007 at 7:34 pm
Wow, where to start? There are so many disturbing things on the Schefter’s website. Ed absolutely stole the Heavens’ Gates, Hells’ Flames play and copyrighted it (since they were “foolish enough” not to), and he and Frank have been raking in the royalties ever since, from the high fee churches pay them to come in and “produce” the play and all the Eternity products they push on-site. Pretty sick, really. Like CBC and legalistic Christianity, “Eternity” is more a barrier and turn-off to the Jesus and the true Gospel than a gateway.
The NYC Church website is what I would expect. Attempts to convey Ed’s “qualifications” for “Senior Pastor” through a litany of ladder rungs, rather than acknowledging that Christ is the only one who calls and equips one for ministry. Climbing the CBC system’s ladder does not qualify one as a competent minister of the Gospel!! Most of the people listed as part of the “team” sound like they will either fly in and out (serve on the board, as someone else mentioned) or invest in the church (like the business people from Seattle). I believe that someone is donating the use of the building for like the first five years, so the pressure is on to build up a congregation of wealthy tithers who can assume the lease in five short years. Of course, the online giving option is already set up!
I guess it’s mostly sad to me. This church plant is clearly about Ed and not about the Lord. It’s about CBC trying to “pee on the fire hydrant” in NYC, trying to expand its domain. From a business and organizational leadership perspective, typically a venture such as this involves extensive research into the local community’s needs, and then designing something to meet those needs. I don’t see any of that here, just a “parachuting in” of a model with ingredients that they think will work based on their conception of a church as outsiders (a coffee bar, slave–I mean internship–program, service times are already established, but a start-date isn’t?!) From a missions perspective, it’s most effective to acclimate to a culture, to orient to it and learn all about it, BEFORE presuming to preach the Gospel in a new and different setting. They need a “Jennifer” partner who can give them straight advice about what will and won’t work with the people in Manhattan, rather than trusting a formula that may appear to work on the west coast (but really doesn’t, as many of us know from painful first-hand experience). I am trying to look at this through a variety of lenses, most importantly a Biblical lense, and I just don’t see any “best practices” involved. So, it’s hard to believe it will be effective in terms of expanding God’s Kingdom.
The pictures on the website look mostly purchased, although the children ARE the Shefters’ children.
That’s all I can take for one night. Lord, have mercy.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:11 pm
Free Indeed: Very nicely put! …My impression of the Schefter Strategy is that since NYC is a center of movies and Broadway productions, he feels that the Eternity play is just what they will relate to.
Someone needs to email Ed personally about the way that he piggy-backed Heaven’s Gates, Hell’s Flames, and see if he will have the stomach to respond. Maybe what he meant when he said that he prayed about it, etc. is how to adapt the ideas from Heaven’s Gates? Nah, I think I’m giving him too much credit at this point because I don’t want to believe that one of my former students is basing his pastoral ministry on a lie or half-truth.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:42 pm
If anyone wants to write up a direct challenge (open letter?) to “Senior Pastor” Ed Schefter, I will try to have it posted on the www.edschefter.com website.
Who knows, maybe he’ll actually respond… after all, it is the official “Senior Pastor” Ed Schefter website. heh.
May 7th, 2007 at 8:41 pm
Actually that idea was originally Kevin Andrew’s.
June 16th, 2007 at 10:15 pm
I truly wonder, does Steve Trujillo read this blog? He’s a brother I love and I wonder how he views our thoughts.
–p