Application Fee? (Anyone want to buy a bridge?)
Posted on May 11th, 2007 by catalyst into the The City Church categoryI just caught this gem on the Generation Church website. (Yes, this blog is going "all Judah-all the time")
Generation Interns 2007/2008
Have you heard about our Generation Intern Program? It’s a program that will train you to be the leader that you’ve always felt called to be! You will encounter other people that are as passionate for God as you are. Join the movement by applying for Generation Interns 07-08 and be prepared for a year of growth and transformation! All applications are due by July 15th. In order to waive the $50 dollar application fee turn it in by June 1st. (emphasis mine) Download the application on our website www.generationinterns.org or pick one up at the church offices!
WHAT? There's an application fee to become an intern!?! Are you kidding me? My office in DC is offering an internship program, and while you get to work for us for free, you also don't have to pay a dime, and you can earn college credit. (I'm lobbying for a 21 year old college female, preferrably she is from the University of Florida or the USC, some college in the South.)
Out of curiousity, I printed out the Generation Intern application. And um… well, the $50 fee is just the beginning. To be a church intern you have to pay the City Church $4,250. This boggles my mind. I checked the tuition fees for Washington State and UW, and it costs $2944 a year to attend Washington State and $3990 to attend UW.
So um, can someone explain to me why on earth you would pay a church to work for free and get zero college credit? I'm trying to give the City Church the benefit of the doubt, but this sounds like an incredible scam.
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May 11th, 2007 at 5:59 am
I’m pumped. This is going to be great.
May 11th, 2007 at 6:42 am
Judah obviously needs more watches. Duh.
May 11th, 2007 at 6:45 am
Wow! Just $4250.00 to have the windows of heaven opened? How could you go wrong? You could be the leader you always wanted to be!
Or, you might want to read your bible….try Matthew 23:10 in the NASB, “And do not be called leaders; for One is your Leader, that is, Christ.” If you are interested in being a Christian, find out who said that!
May 11th, 2007 at 6:46 am
They are going to teach you the divine ways of fleecing the flock and so they figure that that has to be worth something.
May 11th, 2007 at 6:59 am
This I’ve definitely got to comment on. I was faithful to Generation Church until I saw the light and even back then the Generation Interns program rubbed me the wrong way. A teacher at my Christian high school who I respected very much was heavily involved in the leadership of the program. The reason it bugged me was because I honestly had to ask why people were doing it. I kid you not.. there were kids who took the intern program over college at institutions like the UW. I thought to myself,”Ok.. they are going to pay a lot of money to City Church, they are working for no pay and its an internship but they aren’t getting college credit or experience they’d be able to use out there in the real world.” In short, it seemed like these kids were being groomed to be Judah’s spiritual shock troops and I was greatly disturbed by this. I saw people’s personalities change as a result of Generation Interns and not for the better. People with depth, people who were unique started sounding like every other intern and maybe its just me but thats really sad because God created these people with unique personalities and the program essentially turned these kids into robots made to turn other kids into lean, mean tithing machines and maybe this will sound like hyperbole to some of you but its a tragedy especially when you consider this was all about Jesus. This is what Jesus wanted for us? Did Jesus really want the youth to grow up to be the type of people who send their kids to crazy camps like in that Jesus Camp movie?
People make fun of Scientology and yes.. that is a nutty religion but if you ask me Generation Interns is like City’s Church’s Sea Organization except without the million year contract and the boats. The pressure and spiritual arm twisting done by Judah make me want to punch someone. I remember Judah saying stuff around altar call time,”God’s gonna tell some of ya’ll that you need to take a year off and be an intern. Young people.. you’re never gone be the same.. never gone be the same. God’s comin’ to you tonight and he’s gonna say.. YOUNG PERSON.. YOU NEED TO BE AN INTERN and you can’t ignore God when he’s shouting at you.” And sure enough, the next week some freshfaced kid full of life would get up there and tell the church what “God” had told them in their room last night. I bet God’s voice sounded suspiciously like Judah Smith. I’m off my soapbox.
May 11th, 2007 at 7:54 am
PMD, the scientologist have NOTHING on us bat-crap loco Christians. I thinnk maybe we should ease up on Judah for a bit but he just makes it soo easy. I feel bad for the kids under him. They have a sad rude awakening waiting for them in the real world. I noticed his youth group is very strong but the 18 to 24 year old set isn’t as strong with the braindead devotion. Same thing happened in my group. As the kids got older and gained some more sense/discernment (college helps alot but of course it isn’t a must) their eyes were opened.
May 11th, 2007 at 8:01 am
Doug must be soooooo jealous.
May 11th, 2007 at 8:41 am
Now you wonder why it was sooooo easy for Jim Jones and Karesh to do what they did. Get a bunch of naive kids and have Judah speaking like God to them and walah. Judah thites. Kids don’t know how to seek God for their own lives and so when a smooth cool voice speaks to them, they become like sheep led to the slaughter. I made the mistake of spending 4 years at PBC instead of 4 years at a good college learning something because I was one of those naive kids who listened to the temptings of Wendell and his ilk way back when.
May 11th, 2007 at 8:42 am
You just gotta feel for these kids. Dang, I can remember back when I was that age. I was involved in BT’s youth group and at many times wanted with every fiber just to “belong” to something. An internship like this would’ve catered to that awkward stage we all went through, where you’re just not sure what you want to do with your life and you turn to people you THINK have your best interests at heart and genuinely trust their input. Especially if any of these kids have been raised at that church. It’s the natural continuation of their blind acceptance and submission to what they’ve always known.
The irony is…I’m sure the leadership there sees that last statement as a GOOD thing. “Yes, these kids are disciple-ing themselves and submitting to God’s authority placed over them.” And while I’ve drunk hundreds of gallons of that flavor Kool-Aid in the past, all I can say now is….
ACK!! Paa-too-eeee!!
Young people at the City Church…you will come to a place in your lives not to far in the future…where the rollercoaster of emotion and passion and hormones and uncertainty and ferver, etc. will fade away and you’ll come to a point where discernment and responsibility and employment and wisdom become much more important (if not vitally necessary). Don’t be like me…don’t wait ’til you’re in your mid-20s before you pull your head out and learn to question that which has always been. And learn to think for yourself and question what it is that you truly believe. And stop placing your spiritual growth in the hands of men when God is waiting and much more capable of feeding you.
My heart just breaks for you guys when I hear about stuff like this! Sure the conferences are fun. Get crazy. Rock your butts off. Live passionately and with fire. But balance it out with the pursuit of wisdom and seeking His still small voice! Don’t just be another generation of sheep that get lead off to nowhere and accomplish nothing but the continuation of religious generational hand-me-downs!
City Church…you guys suck. I’d love to hear your justification for stealing the money of these young people. Come on…any of you CC supporters out there…reply with what someone will get out of this intership that shouldn’t be gained freely or that could be nearly as valuable as a good education.
May 11th, 2007 at 9:06 am
I’d like to hear it, too. I can only imagine the ludicrous church-babble they use to support this idea.
Anyways, it’s not a new idea. CBC has been doing it for years. It actually started with good intentions. It was meant to be a mentoring tool for the youth pastors to connect with young people on a regular basis. I was part of the program the first year, it was free, and for me it did work and built a tight community of those of us who volunteered. Then someone (Doug?) decided it would be even better if the interns would also take PBC classes part-time and have them pay to do it. It went in the pooper after that, because then it became a status thing and a money maker for the church. They lost sight of the purpose of an intern program, and now it’s a complete sham that robs kids of their real potential.
Ed Schefter is hoping that he can do the same thing in NYC, but I think it will be hard to find kids that gullible when street smarts are required to survive in such a big city.
If any CBC/CC kids are reading this, for the love of the Holy Baby Jesus, GO TO COLLEGE and serve God using your fullest potential. Please don’t waste your life by paying people like Judah Smith to teach you to become a Pharisee.
May 11th, 2007 at 9:07 am
Maybe Judah wants a new bathroom addition on his house, with a bigger shower.
May 11th, 2007 at 9:09 am
Somebody’s a Jen Sterger fan.
May 11th, 2007 at 10:23 am
I was part of the CBC intern program. I went straight from high school graduation (graduated from CHS), to CBC internship (they called it The Timothy Program). And yes, I think I paid around $3000 to serve in the church. I can’t say that I regret it but I can say that it is ridiculous that they require payment TO SERVE.
They say the money is for things like PBC classes (only took 2 the entire year), and the two “missions trips” we went on. But the thing is, we had to pledge and raise money to go on those trips when they came up later on in the year. I was young so I didn’t question anything — when you are that deep into it you trust the people who are “over” you. And as we all know, NOT questioning things is the glue that holds it all together for them.
A lot of things happened to me that year that solidified my faith and they were facilitated by The Timothy Program ONLY because of who I was around 24/7. It had nothing to do with the activities, pastors, trips, etc. It had to do with the other people in the program with me. But the entire time I was there I did not take one step closer to becoming my own person. After I finished the program and started college, this thought would frequently go through my head, “I feel more like myself now than I ever have before”. Everyone was sad that the internship was ending — except for me. I could not wait to be done.
I do wish that I could get my money back, but I wouldn’t want to change my experience.
Oh, and FICM, don’t worry. I was in the thick of a CBC life — internship, PBC student, “leader” role, blah blah blah — and I went to college, studied hard, did well, and graduated last year. It is possible. Of course, the entire time I was in college I felt completely unsupported by the pastors I had paid to let me serve them every day for 9 months. But I did it and I am definitely becoming the person I want to be more and more every day — without a pricey internship.
May 11th, 2007 at 11:18 am
Don’t you just love it when they show their true colors?
May 11th, 2007 at 11:32 am
Want a way to see what they really want?
Put a note in the titheing basket saying that you believe that titheing was done away with when Jesus came.
Be sure to sign the note.
See what happens.
May 11th, 2007 at 11:36 am
I have never liked the intern programs. Slave labor, and in this case–you pay them over 4 grand? I don’t think so. I bet they spend half of their time running to Starbucks for the pastoral staff. Similar to PBC, these intern programs distract young people from pursuing college and getting a degree so they can make a living. Only the chosen ones end up on a paid salary from a local church. They waste years of the best times of their life in these sheltered prisons under the pretense of “pursuing their destiny.” It’s a scam, scam, scam.
–Karli
May 11th, 2007 at 12:21 pm
I’ll admit to stopping short of my undergraduate degree but when I was at Generation Church, Judah was trying to get his degree from Northwest College now Northwest University. I’ve heard rumors about his bad study habits lol
May 11th, 2007 at 12:26 pm
It’s tough to fit studying in with all those showers and all that sex.
May 11th, 2007 at 2:34 pm
Only one scripture for them. Matthew 23:15 15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
May 11th, 2007 at 3:27 pm
Or without a brain.
May 11th, 2007 at 3:34 pm
THAT”S what Judah’s hair style reminds me of!
The scarecrow in “The Wizard of Oz”
May 11th, 2007 at 8:35 pm
A few points, hopefully made objectively:
1) This program is a rip-off of Master’s Commission. It takes their ideas without maintaining an affiliation with the source ministry or acknowledging them as its source.
2) The fees are indeed quite high. But if you do a web search on other MC type programs, not uncommonly high. Exploiting young people in such programs is becoming a widespread practice; and can be justified by benchmarking — we are justified in doing what many others are doing (contrast Rom 12:2). This program charges high fees for what should already be entailed in the ministry of the church: equipping for service.
3) What is most pointedly objectionable to me about this program is the lie implicit in the name. An intern is “an advanced student or graduate usually in a professional field (as medicine or teaching) gaining supervised practical experience” (http://www.m-w.com/). The term generally connotes that a participant in the program is being prepared for a profession. Only a handful of the participants in GC interns advance to full-time ministry, or have any realistic opportunity to do so.
May 12th, 2007 at 1:42 pm
My problem with these kinds of programs is they take unsuspecting, unassuming young people and place all these rules and regulations on them in an attempt to define the grey area that God never defined as black or white in His word. In doing so these kids get overburdened trying to live up to what they think are God’s standards and end up weighed down, becoming these wierd Christians who can no longer relate to anyone else. It takes away the ability for them to live life just as God intended, simple and serene.
They mostly have good intentions, but they get taken advantage of by a pack of wolves who devours the things that make them unique and turns them into a mindless, nearly robotic force that does whatever pastor says to do, because pastor is an oracle of God. Most of these kids lose the ability to think for themselves and question the things that they’re told to accept by other men, things that God never instructed them to do. They’re turned into a force that is used to accomplish the wills of men on earth, all the while being told that it is the will of God that they’re accomplishing, not that of a mere mortal.
It’s really a scary prospect. It bears a striking resemblence to the suicide bombers of Islam, raised up and trained to believe that what they’re doing is the will of God and taught to never question it. While that comparison may be a bit extreme in that Interns aren’t being taught to be violent, it’s still the same concept.
The thing is, many of the members of GI view the fact that we’re talking about them as something to be proud of, they think that the fact that there’s a blog criticizing them is a sort of confirmation, if you will. They’re such a big deal that there’s people out there constantly blogging about them. So they approach it closed midedly, never actually thinking about what they read, just dismissing it as bitter people attacking something Godly because they don’t want to live as “hardcore” as they are. Though seeing, they do not see. Though hearing, they do not hear, nor understand, lest they should understand with their hearts and repent. Like sheep, they are led to the slaughter. The blind following blind leaders, will they not both fall into a ditch?
May 13th, 2007 at 9:32 pm
“The blind following blind leaders, will they not both fall into a ditch?”
I being lost forever by not finding God’s truth is worse than a ditch. :….(
May 14th, 2007 at 10:18 am
A few days after posting and I’m having a touch of blogger’s remorse. While I don’t retract anything I said, I realized that it was said very bluntly. Blogging in love, I’d like to say that despite the misgivings about certain aspects of the GCI program mentioned previously, I charitably add that the people involved in it have many good qualities, and are quite likely sincere and earnest in their desire to serve God and make an impact for the gospel.
An application fee and enrollment fee of some kind would seem to be appropriate for such a program. Something Like $25 for application fee, and $1500 for the program (including trip expenses) Would be eminently reasonable.
I must say, though, that it is a bit of stretch to characterize the expression of a dissenting opinion as betrayal. Ahh, well: James 1:2
Love to all.
May 14th, 2007 at 10:33 am
Well, I’m not sure I’ll ever understand the “application fee”. But whatever.
You’re changing the facts. It’s not $1500 for a missions trip. It’s $4200 for a chance to work for free for the church.
So I suspect you still stand by your original comment.
May 14th, 2007 at 10:44 am
PublicInterface,
Their sincerity and earnestness are exactly why this is such a terrible scam. They think they’re doing God a favor by enrolling, when they are robbing themselves and the church from their true potential. I can understand your feeling that you may have been too harsh, but you gotta call a spade a spade, no matter how “sincere” people might be about it.
And how did you decide that $1500 is reasonable? Every other intern program in this world is free. You work for someone for free for the valuable experiences and references you can put on a resume. This program does nothing for anyone pursing a “career” in ministry, other than to learn the hard lesson of making sure you’re on the receiving end of the money exchange.
These guys have built (constrained is a better word) churches by preventing dissenting opinion. Paul and Barnabas made a career out of preaching the Gospel despite dissenting with other early Christians and Jewish leaders. In the end, even these two split on personal difference and the result was that the truth was spread further than if they had agreed on everything. (Read Acts 13-15) Debate and dissent is not a sin. Don’t beat yourself up over it.
May 14th, 2007 at 10:47 am
And may I make another suggestion for anyone who still loves the City Church and is considering becoming a Gen Intern.
Take that $4200 and enroll part time in community college, you can take Bible Courses if you so desire, but at least get some type of college credit. And then call up the City Church and offer to volunteer part-time in their many ministries. Including:
- City Kids (Children Ministries)
- Prayer Groups
- Social Services
This will look much more impressive on your resume, than Generation Intern.
May 14th, 2007 at 8:49 pm
I wonder if the interns have to clean Judah’s shower?
May 15th, 2007 at 11:22 am
Catalyst…I think you are totally missing the point with your reference to going to a community college and actually getting some kind of education that can be put to some benefitial use. Obviously you are ignorant of the fact that all you need is God’s spirit, the Bible, (and of course a few classes from CBC) to get all the training you need. I can tell that you are not a spiritual man, because if you were, you would realize that the money that would be sown in the field of church ministry will more that come back to you many fold. So…let me sound the trumpet and lead the march…get out your wallets, stay away from any secular education, pay the tuition, get in line, learn the mantra and together lets “hold up the blood stained banner.”
May 15th, 2007 at 2:03 pm
“the money that would be sown in the field of church ministry will more that come back to you many fold”
uh huh.
Why do I smell someone named “Frank”?
May 15th, 2007 at 2:05 pm
I’m 99.999% sure that post was sarcasm.
May 15th, 2007 at 2:07 pm
Just covering the .001%
Can’t be too careful…
May 16th, 2007 at 6:28 am
So, this is all very interesting! We have a young man interested in attending the internship at Atlanta City Chuch (www.atlantacitychurch.com) . We oppose and pray that he makes a different choice. Would love to hear from anyone with experience at ACC.
I am of the same mindset as you all, which is how I found this website in the first place. This is scary business. Do you all see a lot of marrying within the interns and church congregation? It seems a little incestuous!
Where are the Atlanta folks??! Any comments on the leadership there?
May 16th, 2007 at 7:28 am
Notmykid,
I don’t think we need to do any more to convince you that this is a bad idea. Rick Snow shares a similar ideology with people like Frank Damazio and Wendell Smith when it comes to having a fake school to indoctrinate the youth of their church. This idea has really caught on with today’s churches, and it’s not hard to see why - it’s just another means of control. If your son is interested in getting a Bible education, send him to an actual Bible college/university where he can at least work towards an accredited degree. I noticed they needed a referral from a teacher or employer. If a student came to me for a referral there, I think I would just laugh.
After reading the descriptions of what they actually do there, it seems like they just spend a heckuva lot of time in chapels and church services and spend the rest of the time organizing the various conferences at the church. They are nothing more than free labor for the church, and it seems especially exploitative when they charge attendees hundreds of dollars to attend said conferences.
Also, I couldn’t help but chuckle when I looked through the student manual. The similarities to the PBC manual were frightening. The non-dating rules are hilarious.
Speaking of dating, my own perspective on dating/marriage at CBC was that it was very incestuous. Dating outside the church was actively discouraged, and even dating within the church had to meet the approval of pastors. Doug Lasit was (still is?) infamous for telling people they shouldn’t be dating someone, but I suppose that could be blamed on learned behavior - he was a victim himself of this tyranny from CBC elders but he finally managed to marry CBC royalty and got a job out of it. All of the GC leaders married within GC, with the exception of our favorite target, Judah Smith, who married CBC royalty, so that was OK I guess.
Also, the cityintern.com site designer should be whipped with an extension cord for forcing the audio clip upon visitors to the site with no means to turn it off.
May 16th, 2007 at 2:12 pm
Member: Thanks for the painful reminder that “Bible College” is nothing more than a place to be force fed alot of personal opinions and local church doctrine. The reason for the pain is that I’ve “beentheredonethat.” Except that the word “Bible” was removed and “bridal” was inserted. I often feel the pain of having spend 3+ years at a bible school and virtually came away with nothing, except alot of indoctrination and a cloudy view of who God really is. It has taken me a long time to shed the bonds and trapping of the culture that a bible school environment creates.
notmykid: My personal experience is that bible school isn’t a whole lot different than secular colleges in the respect that our sons and daughters are exposed to alot of the same vices: Drugs, sex, alcohol etc. My parents thought sending their child (me) to a bible school would prepare for a life of being in the “ministry”, avoid alot of the worldly trappings and prepare me for life. Virtually it did none of the above. I didn’t get into full time ministry (much to my parents pain) I didn’t avoid the “world” and when I finally got out of college, I was totally unprepared for a life in the secular world. In retrospect, I wish I would have followed MEMBERS advice and gone to an accredited college where they actually do make you think, ask questions and help you decide where your life is headed. Full-time ministry is overblown and only for a few people. We were taught in bible school that we were all to be pastors and pastors wives…no other options. Foolishly we followed along. This mentality has caused pain and devistation in many of my fellow students…they weren’t called to be pastors, they tried, they failed, they blamed God.
Ok…the end. Encourage your children to be true followers of God, find where they fit in life, and support them in whatever area God leads them.
May 16th, 2007 at 2:14 pm
PS I personally know Doug and was around when he was “dating” Classic example of “do as I say, not as I do (did)”
May 16th, 2007 at 10:33 pm
Ain’t this the truth. Guess that’s what makes me one of his “hard cases”.