City Business Church » Blog Archive » Jerry Falwell has died

Jerry Falwell has died

Posted on May 15th, 2007 by catalyst into the Uncategorized category

Is this the end of the Religious Right?

31 Comments To This Post

Chris Snethen said:
May 15th, 2007 at 11:31 am
The end of the religious right? That’s a bit much. I don’t even think it’s all that much of a blow to the movement. He’s been increasingly less relevant for the the last 20 years. He’s been lapped several times over by Dobson. Now when HE goes, it may be a good time to question whether its the end. But Falwell? I suspect he’s got some ’splainin to do this afternoon. I hope it’s like “Defending Your Life” when they put it all up on the big screen and force him to defend himself.

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catalyst said:
May 15th, 2007 at 11:34 am
I hope God sends a gay Angel to meet him at the Heavenly Gates.

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Chris Snethen said:
May 15th, 2007 at 12:34 pm
catalyst on May 15, 2007 at 11:34 am said:

I hope God sends a gay Angel to meet him at the Heavenly Gates.

Fabulous!

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Rock said:
May 15th, 2007 at 2:25 pm
He just died….and it’s already being joked about?

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Chris Snethen said:
May 15th, 2007 at 2:29 pm
Rock on May 15, 2007 at 2:25 pm said:

He just died….and it’s already being joked about?

And Falwell never made any snide remarks in the hours after the deaths of his political opponents? Or after 9/11? Honestly, Falwell wouldn’t have had it any other way.

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Rock said:
May 15th, 2007 at 2:37 pm
So I guess two wrongs make a right. That makes sense.

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FormerPBC Prez said:
May 15th, 2007 at 3:57 pm
Philippians 1:15-18. Check it out. It doesn’t matter if he was preaching for “selfish ambition” (NIV). Paul said he was rejoicing that Jesus was being preached. Now I’m sure all the expert “theologians” on this blog will pipe in with their two cents, but read it with an open mind and you’ll see that Paul didn’t really care. The only thing he cared about was that Jesus Christ was being preached.

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whatHEsaid said:
May 15th, 2007 at 9:35 pm
catalyst on May 15, 2007 at 11:34 am said:

I hope God sends a gay Angel to meet him at the Heavenly Gates.

I had the pleasure a couple of weeks ago to attend Imago Dei and hear a civil rights activist from the 60’s speak. Reverend John Perkins, a 70 something year old black preacher had me on the edge of my seat. His basic message was about his 3 ‘Rs’, relocation, reconciliation, and redistribution. He stressed the need for Christianity to become relevant to society today, and the way to do it is to live among the poor, show the love of Christ and redistribute(share with those in need). One of his comments
during the sermon really made me laugh….”Evangelicals always got to be hatin’ on someone. They hate the liberals, they hate the gays, they hate the Arabs…..MAN! That ain’t no GOOD NEWS!” What a pleasure to hear the Gospel preached!

On the other hand, I don’t think the comment about a ‘gay’ angel is too likely. Jesus tells us in Matt. 22:30, “For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marrige, but are like angels in heaven.” I think all of our sexual lusts and appetites will thankfully stay in the grave when we are resurrected.

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An Unscrupulous Man said:
May 16th, 2007 at 5:14 am
On the other hand, I don’t think the comment about a ‘gay’ angel is too likely. Jesus tells us in Matt. 22:30, “For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marrige, but are like angels in heaven.” I think all of our sexual lusts and appetites will thankfully stay in the grave when we are resurrected.

Well, then we’ll settle for Jim Neighbors.

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priv8pete said:
May 16th, 2007 at 6:00 am
An Unscrupulous Man on May 16, 2007 at 5:14 am said:

On the other hand, I don’t think the comment about a ‘gay’ angel is too likely. Jesus tells us in Matt. 22:30, “For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marrige, but are like angels in heaven.” I think all of our sexual lusts and appetites will thankfully stay in the grave when we are resurrected.

Well, then we’ll settle for Jim Neighbors.

Come on Scrupe, I’m as old as Cat and even I know it’s Jim Nabors!

Gah-lee!!!

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An Unscrupulous Man said:
May 16th, 2007 at 7:31 am
Duh-uhhh! (Slaps head in response to senior moment …) …

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whatHEsaid said:
May 17th, 2007 at 12:18 am
Jim Neighbors….Jim Nabors…..whatever happened to St. Peter?

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WTFWJD said:
May 17th, 2007 at 8:56 am
whatHEsaid on May 17, 2007 at 12:18 am said:

Jim Neighbors….Jim Nabors…..whatever happened to St. Peter?

Wait… St. Peter is gay?!

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WTFWJD said:
May 17th, 2007 at 4:06 pm
Found a fun family game:
Hitler or Falwell!

Friends, before the iron grows too cold, I’d like to play a little game called Hitler or Falwell! This is a simple game of Godwinism, in which I present a quote and YOU guess who said it! Let’s begin, shall we?

1. My feelings as a Christian point me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter.

Easy, right? Let’s continue!

2. This ‘turn the other cheek’ business is all well and good but it’s not what Jesus fought and died for.

3. Secular schools can never be tolerated because such a school has no religious instruction and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith…. We need believing people.

4. I hope I live to see the day when, as in the early days of our country, we won’t have any public schools. The churches will have taken them over again and Christians will be running them. What a happy day that will be!

5. Universal education is the most corroding and disintegrating poison that liberalism has ever invented for its own destruction.

6. We were convinced that the people needs and requires this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out.

7. We want to fill our culture again with the Christian spirit … We want to burn out all the recent immoral developments in literature, in the theater, and in the press. . .we want to burn out the poison of immorality which has entered into our whole life and culture as a result of liberal excess.

8. This the national government will regard its first and foremost duty to restore the unity of spirit and purpose of our people. It will preserve and defend the foundations upon which the power of our nation rests. It will take Christianity, as the basis of our collective morality, and the family as the nucleus of our people and state, under its firm protection….May God Almighty take our work into his grace, give true form to our will, bless our insight, and endow us with the trust of our people.

9. Remain strong in your faith, as you were in former years. In this faith, in its close-knit unity our people to-day goes straight forward on its way and no power on earth will avail to stop it.

10. We’re fighting against humanism, we’re fighting against liberalism … we are fighting against all the systems of Satan that are destroying our nation today .

Link!

Hey, those guys may have done some bad things, but we can’t overlook the good they did right? Better to be preaching the word incorrectly, than not at all, no?

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FormerPBC Prez said:
May 18th, 2007 at 7:13 am
I do not understand how you can compare Hitler with Jerry Falwell. For one Falwell never murdered millions of innocent people. Falwell never ended people’s lives because they were of a different race. Unlike Hitler, Falwell was trying to stop atrocities from happening (abortion being one). What was Falwell’s legacy, depending on who you talk to, one of controversy or one of heroics. The fact that some people didn’t like what he stood for and disagreed with him is irrelevant. It is funny (and not in a good way) how this blog has taken to bashing someone who is dead and who at least stood up for his convictions. Kinda sick if you ask me.

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Fezzik said:
May 18th, 2007 at 7:42 am
Falwell also headed up the rise of the “religious right” as a political force, which is becoming more of a tragedy every day. Consider the corruption, increased bureaucracy, and greed creeping into many churches and tell me why I should applaud one of the men responsible for pushing Christians in that direction because he wanted to sit at the banquet table with the DC political big boys…

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catalyst said:
May 18th, 2007 at 7:47 am
He also blamed America for 9/11, saying we deserved to be attacked.

I don’t have a lot of love for him or sympathy for his followers.

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FormerPBC Prez said:
May 18th, 2007 at 8:22 am
I guess it depends on what your viewpoint is. One, you can have the viewpoint where God allowed the attacks to happen because of America’s sins (and there is biblical precedent for that). Maybe God removed His covering over America because we have become a wicked nation. We have allowed sin to sweep into this nation and the “religious” have done nothing about it. I’ll admit a lot of big “religious” leaders have ripped many Christians off by diluting the Gospel and in essence creating their own gospel of wealth.

Just a thought, maybe God allowed us to be attacked because of the wolves in sheep’s clothing that disguise themselves as “religious leaders.” Maybe they weren’t doing there job of being true shepherds and protecting the “flock” from the evil that is in this world.

As for Falwell what was the gospel he preached, not just the news that you heard or what the liberal media reported he said. The gospel he preached was that to be saved you must have Jesus Christ as your Savior. Confess with your mouth and believe in your heart and you will be saved. That is what should be remembered of this man.

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catalyst said:
May 18th, 2007 at 8:38 am
America has always been a sinful nation. If God was ever going to remove his covering, I would hope He did it shortly after we became a nation and wrote into our Constitution a justification for slavery. I don’t buy the God allowed us to be attacked argument. We’ve been a less sinful nation ever since we started treating our black bretheren as equals.

And preaching the gospel does not justify saying horrible things. If you want to remember Mr. Falwell as a preacher, then great. I will remember his as a man who practiced bigotry and used Christ to get rich.

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Reformed Pope said:
May 18th, 2007 at 8:52 am
Maybe God removed His covering over America because we have become a wicked nation.

That’s retarded. “God’s covering”…where is the Biblical Precedent that? Why do people act like America is God’s chosen people? Why are we so special to have “God’s Covering”?

“We have become a wicked nation?” This isn’t the first tragedy to strike the US, so it’s not like we can claim some sort of “protection” over the land that was just removed. All nations are wicked, they have been ever since God kicked A & E out of the Garden.

I’ll tell you why 9/11 happened…life. That’s right, it is just another part of life.

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FormerPBC Prez said:
May 18th, 2007 at 9:28 am
“We’ve been a less sinful nation ever since we started treating our black bretheren as equals.” How about we’ve been a more sinful nation for the allowance of sins such as pornography and homosexuality to permeate or culture? And I will remember Falwell in a positive light. And I hope that someday when you pass on that people will look at your life as a positive and not look at the stupid things you said or did in your time on earth.

In response to Reformed Pope. As far as biblical precedent for covering His people. Look no further than the nation of Israel in a book called the Bible, Old Testament. God, throughout history, if Israel sinned would remove His covering of protection over them and send enemy nations to bring judgement on them. Am I saying that America is His people, no I’m not. However, as Christians I do believe that we are His children. And as His children if we listened to Him and obeyed what He said, we could ask anything, even protection from evil and He will listen.

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FormerPBC Prez said:
May 18th, 2007 at 9:30 am
Just as a side note, I do like a good debate. I think it sharpens our moral acumen.

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An Unscrupulous Man said:
May 18th, 2007 at 9:44 am
There’s also that whole “goat nation” and “sheep nation” thing in Matthew 25. Me thinks God needs a 3rd category for the USA though. The “horses ass nation”.

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catalyst said:
May 18th, 2007 at 10:04 am
How about we’ve been a more sinful nation for the allowance of sins such as pornography and homosexuality to permeate or culture?

I too appreciate a debate. But you’re not going to persuade many people with the claim that pornography and homosexuality are worse sins than slavery? That’s insane.

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FormerPBC Prez said:
May 18th, 2007 at 10:13 am
Cat,
Tell me what’s covered more in the Bible? Slavery, or sexual sins? Especially homosexuality, but included in that are lust for another person, adultery, fornication, etc. I’m not saying that slavery isn’t or even wasn’t a sin. What I am saying is that these are just two of a number of sins for which we have, perhaps, caused God to allow His covering to be removed. And perhaps I am insane…

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catalyst said:
May 18th, 2007 at 10:22 am
heh. Alright, I don’t think we’re going to come to an agreement here. We’ll just have to agree to disagree… agree to disagree…

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Fezzik said:
May 18th, 2007 at 10:26 am
“And I will remember Falwell in a positive light. And I hope that someday when you pass on that people will look at your life as a positive and not look at the stupid things you said or did in your time on earth.”

That’s a nice sentiment, but how many people were led astray because of those “stupid things” he said? As Christians, we should recognize those words were not a good witness and do what we can to prevent a repeat performance by a Christian leader in the future. If that leads to some holding Jerry Falwell in a bad light, that’s unfortunate but shouldn’t prevent us from doing the right thing. As a smart guy once said, “Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.”

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Reformed Pope said:
May 18th, 2007 at 11:22 am
As far as biblical precedent for covering His people. Look no further than the nation of Israel in a book called the Bible, Old Testament.

Yes, that is true…he also followed them around as a pillar of fire…which seems to be pretty obvious proof that he is there and with them. Tell me, when was the last time God visited the US as a Pillar of anything?

The whole “covering” theory makes it sound like we (as a nation) have been mostly good, but now because of _______ (insert whatever cause you want American Churches to rise against) God has removed His hand from our nation. It’s a manipulation technique that anyone can use for anything.

Am I saying that America is His people, no I’m not. However, as Christians I do believe that we are His children.

There are “Christians” in every nation. Based on that theroy the whole world would be under the covering (which is actually much more acurate in my opinion).

What about the “Christians” living in Iraq? What’s to keep an Iraqi pastor from saying “Because of ______ sins, God has removed his covering from our Nation and allowed the evil empire of America to harm us”? If Jerry Fallwell were an Iraqi, we would have been trying to have him hanged (hung?) just like Sadam.

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Free Indeed said:
May 19th, 2007 at 7:45 am
Jesus does not talk about the sheep and goat “thing” in terms of “nations” but in terms of individuals. Read Mt 25 again, Scrupe.

The covering “thing” is hogwash. JP, I mean RP, I’m with you. Self-appointed “Christian” “leaders” manipulate people with the “covering,” “God’s favor,” “nation” thing which is just a guise for dominionism. When will we stop thinking so literally and naturally and start thinking spiritually? Why do we insist on seeing “nation” as whatever current iteration of geographical division currently is documented on maps? One of my “pet peeves” is the belief that the physical plot named “Israel” is the Israel referenced throughout the Bible. Hello!? WE are Israel, every person who puts his/her trust in Christ is grafted into the one and only vine, Jesus Christ. There is no more Jew or Gentile. Anyway, that’s a whole different topic.

Does God bless or curse “America?” Who knows, and I just don’t believe it’s possible or relevant to try to classify things that way. What I DO know is that God is FOR ME, he died FOR ME, he loves ME. That sounds self-centered, and I don’t mean it to, as I sincerely believe in Christian community.

Re: Jerry Falwell. I don’t know anyone who has been blessed by him. I know dozens, no hundreds, of people who have warped views of God and the Kingdom of God because of him. So, I say, good riddance. If all the TBN-types went away, I would celebrate. If TBN iteslf went away, I would defintely celebrate. We don’t need “celebrities” in Christianity. Look how Jesus lived. He is our example. I understand the human need to understand tragedy (i.e., 9/11, Katrina, etc.) but to say that such things are evidence of God’s curse or blessing is just large-scale legalism and ridiculous–people like Falwell seize such opportunities to attempt to assert their pathetic, I mean prophetic, edge. Come on, people! God is soverign. It rains on the righteous and unrighteous alike. We live in a fallen world. God uses evil for good in our lives. These are truths. Not always easy truths, but truths.

Fezzik, I’m with you, the “religious right” is a tragedy. Jesus did not try to make the government conform to what made him comfortable or what he knew to be right. He kept the natural government in perspective, apparently focusing instead of the more important and lasting spiritual realm and certainly on the hearts of people. We cannot “save souls” through dominionism. No matter how many laws we change to align with our views of righteousness, no matter who we elect to political office, it still comes down to our hearts and our own relationship with the Lord.

I’m off my soapbox for now.

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City Business Church » Blog Archive » Twin Towers of Babel said:
May 19th, 2007 at 9:12 am
[…] In light of the recent discussion regarding Jerry Falwell and his 9/11 comments I have written the following post: […]

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An Unscrupulous Man said:
May 19th, 2007 at 11:18 am
Jesus does not talk about the sheep and goat “thing” in terms of “nations” but in terms of individuals. Read Mt 25 again, Scrupe.

Yer prob’ly right, Free - and on second thought, I wouldn’t want Jesus setting up a 3rd catergory where I’d be the only one. My luck, Jerry would be there too … Hey! Who’s that guy with Falwell? He must be a real horses ass!

‘Scrupe

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Jerry Falwell has died

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