Recently we received this email with the Subject Line: A real opponent of City Bible Church.

Hi There:

I stumbled into your blog because I was interested in what had happened to some of the latter rain churches and pastors I had been involved with up to 1980 ( of which CBC (aka Bible Temple) are the part of.  I began in the church of Leonard Fox in the 60's where I knew Frank Damazio when he first came to be a christian.  I have known Frank for close to 40 years and would  not trust him in any way shape or form ! I unfortunately graduated from PBC in 1972, but it took until 1980 for me to see how messed up this group was. Both Ken Malmin and Larry Asplund would not be at CBC without my influence and I deeply regret having put them in touch with such a messed up group of people.  It is good to see ( finally) that the abuses of CBC are getting a wide airing!  Keep up the good??   work!

I'm curious. If this guy thinks he is a "real opponent of City Bible Church" what does that make us?

We also received this email from Erica:

what denomination  is this church, could you please send me more information
because one of a church member invited me to go to your church  god bless
you

To which Catalyst replied:

This isn't really a church; it's just a blog.

-Justin

Good times. Good times.

Here is something interesting from the Snohomish County Business Journal.

Trinity Lutheran College is relocating and…

Money for the relocation will come from the $23.5 million sale of Trinity’s current campus to The City Church of Kirkland. The college must move by 2009 under that agreement.

This is nice addition to their Capitol Hill rowhouse. And it will be like two bookends of prosperity keeping our country together.

My second favorite baseball team, the Washington Nationals, is holding a Faith Night this August in which Christians will be encouraged to attend the game.

When the Nationals take on the St. Louis Cardinals on Aug. 5, fans who pay an extra $10 will be able to stay after the game and visit booths from Christian colleges and shops, meet characters from the "Veggie Tales" Christian video series and hear a concert by the band MercyMe.

And, as always, the real reason for inviting Christians to the ballpark is to get their money.

"If somebody comes to a team owner and says, 'We can drive an additional five [thousand] to 15,000 people to you, and you have no cost and no risk,' that's a no-brainer for a club owner," says Brent High, president of Third Coast Sports, which will run Faith Nights at 10 major league stadiums this season.

Faith Night is causing the DC folk a bit of consternation, because the evening doesn't include all Faiths, only Evangelical Christians.

However, in my opinion, this is really just a cruel joke on Christians. The Nats are horrible. The ballpark, RFK Stadium, is decrepit. And the weather in August is brutal. They can call the night whatever they want, but a Nationals game at RFK in August is really Hell Night, not Faith Night. Ask anyone who's made the mistake of sitting through that cess pool.

The Seattle Newspaper that reviewed several Seattle churches a couple weeks ago, recently received this letter from the Church Council in response to their article:

Dear Stranger Editor,

I’ve now spoken to several pastors whose congregations were featured as part of your “Month of Sundays” article. Most of the pastors are disappointed, some are hurt, others are angry. Would it be possible to have a meeting with Dan Savage and other Stranger executives so we could discuss this and other issues? My hope is that it would be possible to build a more positive relationship between congregations in Seattle and The Stranger newspaper, and I believe a meeting could help. It looks to me like we could gather ten or more pastors of the churches you covered and that a meeting might be very helpful to us all.

Thank you for your consideration of this request. I look forward to your response.

Rev. Sandy Brown
Executive Director
Church Council of Greater Seattle

To which the editor responds:

Dear Sandy,

I don’t see the point of a meeting. Anyone upset by “Month of Sundays” is welcome to send a letter, which we will publish. But a sit-down to discuss “this and other issues”? Can you be more specific about what those “other issues” are? And how a meeting would be helpful to you? I certainly don’t see how it would be helpful to us.

The package stands on its own: some of the pieces were respectful, some were irreverent.

I’m frequently disappointed, hurt, and angered by things that are said by pastors in churches all over Seattle. I doubt very much that Seattle pastors would be willing to sit down with me once a week to “discuss” their most recent sermons simply because I was disappointed, hurt, or angry.

It wouldn’t occur to me to ask for such a meeting, however, because I recognize that Seattle pastors have a right to say whatever they like. I trust that Seattle pastors recognize that we have a right to publish whatever we like.

Sincerely,

Dan Savage
Editor
The Stranger

Couldn't have said it better myself.

(A tip of the cap to C-Sneth)

Well, I made it. 2 weeks since the last time I looked at this blog (or any other like it). 2 relaxing weeks…which have led to this extremely long post. In that time, I managed to come up with this defense of our blog. But before I get into that, I'd like to lay out a few disclaimers:

1. I believe that the Prosperity Doctrine which is taught by CBC, TCC, and many others is a false doctrine that is detrimental to the faith of those who attend. If I am wrong then I will be punished heavily (the Bible makes that very clear).
2. Gossip is wrong. There is no excuse for gossip. I will not attempt to defend a gossip blog.
3. If this blog is written out of anger, bitterness, or revenge than it is wrong. These are not the issues that I want to debate. The only way this blog works is if we are correct in the fact that CBC is harming the Gospel of Jesus through the false teachings from the pulpit. (I do not believe that everything taught at CBC is false, but there is enough there to make a strong case for __________….my lawyers advised that I remove this sentence. You get the point.)
4. Not everyone or everything at these churches is wrong or bad. There are plenty of good people doing good things. Its unfortunate that they don't get any help from the pulpit.
5. I didn't really spend that much time looking up a defense…more on that later.

So here it is; two weeks later this is what I came up with: 3 YouTube videos that are worth checking out:

The first is video montage called There's a sucker born every minute. It's funny for the first minute.

Then check out this completely unrelated parody of Lacey and Kameron's SYTYCD performance. It's only funny if you watch the show…which I do.

And finally watch this unfunny, but powerful video of John Piper on the Prosperity Doctrine.

Of course I didn't just use YouTube for my research, I also went to the Bible where I found out this:

Proverbs 13:5 "The righteous hate what is false"…

I am not going list every scripture that deals with false teachings, you should look them up for yourself, but the Bible is full of warnings against false prophets and teachings. That fact alone is reason enough for this blog, but lets continue.

I shall now read from Paul's 2^nd letter to the Corinthians:

I'm actually not going to, I just wanted to fit in a Wedding Crashers quote, but I urge you to read 2^nd Corinthians especially chapters 11 and 12 and this commentary on the same. Since you are not going to read it, I will sum up for you my understanding of these verses.

In 2^nd Corinthians Paul is addressing the Church of Corinth and the Christians throughout Achaia (2 Cor 1:1).The Corinthian church had been infiltrated by false teachers and Paul wanted to address these issues. When Paul speaks of these false teachers he uses rather harsh language (2 Cor 11:13-15) and even "biting sarcasm" (2 Cor 11:16-21).

Note that he does NOT send this letter to the false apostles directly. He does NOT take 2 or 3 witnesses. He does NOT just ignore the teaching and let God be the judge. Instead, he sends this letter to the church and the people of the area. Paul is not concerned that the "non-Christian" people living in Achaia might see this letter, he is more concerned with addressing these false "super-apostles"…and he is not nice about it.

Furthermore, these letters are then placed in the Book that we want all non-Christians to read (hint: the Bible) and we hope that after they read these letters that they then believe in Jesus. I found a number of examples like this in the Bible where members of the church were publicly rebuked for their false teachings. There is nothing wrong with public rebukes, IMHO. And, based on the little research I did, I would have to say that a blog is an excellent way to rebuke a church for leading it's members away from Jesus…but NONE of that is what I "received" during my hiatus.

Here is the conclusion I came to regarding this blog:

We spend way too much time focusing on the negative side of Christianity.

This is why I didn't spend much time researching a "blog defense"…I feel (hope) I've moved on.

Yes, the crap that is spewed by PF each Sunday is offensive. Yes, the fact that they want to continue to grow their church which will only lead to them corrupting the minds of others is disturbing. Yes, the fact that they trade the work of Jesus on the Cross for the American Dream is flat out wrong. But you know what?

The Bible is replete with scriptures that point away from what City Bible Church, The City Church and many others teach. In fact, while I was looking up scriptures about false teachers, I found so many examples that say "Watch out for the trap of Prosperity". It's all over the Bible. This led me to this conclusion: If anyone who attends one of these churches wants to find the truth, it's out there. In fact it's all over the place. Prosperity with a Purpose is not a Biblical doctrine. Its not. That is why you see these preachers taking parts of verses and pairing them up with parts of other verses as they try to weave their web.

All anyone has to do is stop making IDOLS out of their CHURCH, their PASTOR, their Life and they will find the truth. Let me list a couple of scriptures just to help make my point:

1 Timothy 6:6-9… 6But godliness with contentment is great gain. 7For we brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out of it. 8But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with that. 9People who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge men into ruin and destruction.

Matthew 19:21-23… 21Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

 22When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.

 23Then Jesus said to his disciples, "I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

Believe me, there are plenty of others that say the same thing. So what's my point?

During my "fast", I stopped listening to sermons by Frank, Judah, and Wendell, but I still needed to get my weekly sermon fix, so I started listening to a number of sermons by John Piper. The difference was huge. I listened to an 8 sermon set of Piper's called Light & Heat in which he encouraged us to be happy and satisfied in Christ. John Piper refers to himself as a Christian Hedonist, which at first glance sounds awfully similar to the Prosperity Doctrine that we hate so much. However, instead of talking about personal growth and gain he made this point (over and over):

God is most glorified in us, when we are most satisfied in Him.

Yes, we should pursue happiness and joy, but we need to do so "in Christ". Happiness may be persecution; it may involve pain and hardship, but if we can begin to understand what we have in Christ, none of that will matter. We will still be happy, and God will get the glory for it.

Look at what the apostles went through; look at what Jesus went through. None of it involved "Personal Prosperity", but they understood that ETERNAL LIFE is far more valuable than anything that the world can do to us. How does the song go? "You're all I want, You're all I need, You're everything…everything."

If we really understood the value of Salvation, how would we live our lives? Would we pursue personal gain or would we spend our lives living for Christ?

Somewhere along the way I lost my joy. Christianity became a burden to me and I think it is all because I spent so much time focusing on the FALSE. False teachers, preachers, and doctrine. It weighed me down to the point that I wasn't able to enjoy Christ.

I want to give that side up. Feel free to carry on pointing out the sins of the church, but don't let it rob you like I let it rob me. I'm not quitting this blog, but I want to change the focus…which may result in quite a few less posts. I want to live a life that honors God. I no longer feel any responsibility to point out the errors of CBC…the Bible does that far better than I could ever do. I want my joy back. I want to show the world that I am satisfied in Christ so that He gets the glory.

John Piper read this quote from Blaise Pascal that really struck me:

Year of grace 1654, Monday 23 November, feast of St. Clement . . . from about half past ten at night to about half an hour after midnight, FIRE. God of Abraham, God of Isaac, God of Jacob, not of philosophers and scholars. Certitude, heartfelt joy, peace. God of Jesus Christ. God of Jesus Christ. "My God and your God." . . . Joy, Joy, Joy, tears of joy. . . Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ. May I never be separated from him.

I'm not there yet, but that is where I want to be. This is what I want my heart to feel…Joy, Joy, Joy, tears of joy… Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ. May I never be separated from him.

Consider this an open thread to discuss any topic you like.

I stumbled across this article in yesterday's Washington Post about a fortune teller (Uwanawich) who was convicted of theft for promising to stamp out curses for her clients.  The facts of the case reminded me of certain a Malachi 3 obsessed pastor.

Here are the facts:

Authorities say Uwanawich, 63, defrauded vulnerable middle-aged women by persuading them to hand over tens of thousands of dollars to crush devastating curses.

The relationship began in December 2004 at Lakeforest Mall, when Uwanawich approached the woman, who was depressed, and handed her a flier promoting her psychic powers.

During meetings at Uwanawich's apartment, the woman, who is of Chinese descent, was told she and her family had a curse that dated to the building of the Great Wall of China. Evidence of the curse came in the form of an egg Uwanawich cracked in front of the woman that had blood and hair and smelled horrid.

I'm not saying the similarities are exact. But I know pastors who speak of curses, promising great wealth if you tithe and calamity if you don't.  So what's the difference?

Of course, you could never convice a prosecutor to go after a pastor for promising great wealth. But I wonder if a CBC member who tithed and didn't receive financial blessings, if they could sue for fraud?

Anyone want to try?

A reader writes:

In 2006, my church (which is not affiliated with MFI) brought in the Eternity drama.  There was much subsequent excitement  concerning "results" as measured numerically.  Personally, I wondered whether the numbers really indicated anything of spiritual value.  But, I was not in a position to know, so I attempted to reserve judgment and observe subsequent events unfold.

Several months after Eternity, the senior pastor of the church, who had founded the church 18 years before, announced his resignation.  As part of the process of calling a new senior pastor, the church put together a web
site describing the church to prospective candidates.  The following quotes reflect some aspects of the state of the church, in the words of the leadership, almost a year after Eternity was presented.

In the "Evangelism Style" section: 

"In 2006 [the church] hosted the Oregon-based 'Eternity' dramatic evangelism presentation. In the course of 3 weeks more than 15,000 people partook of the intense drama. Approximately 1,500 people made professions of faith. This was a departure from our relational evangelism."

In the "State of the Church" section:
 
"Up until 2002, growth in attendance and financial support was a given. As we approached consistent attendance (adults and children) of 1,000 we plateaued."  (Comment:  That plateau at around 1000 attendees continues to
the present time.)
 
In a section describing why the church is looking for a new senior pastor:
 
"Pastor [Doe] has chosen to step down as Senior Pastor to devote his time to his 'first loves': evangelism and missions."  (Comment:  He did not leave to any position related to MFI or Eternity.) In addition to these statements in the church's own words, I can attest that after Eternity, they started a New Believer's class and honestly seemed to  be attempting to follow up with those people who "made professions of faith" during Eternity.
 
I am left with the following questions.  Unfortunately, the situation is such that I would not get any straight answer (or even any answer at all) from the leadership of the church about these questions, so I am left to speculate about the answers.  I have my opinions about the answers, but I'll leave it to others to form their own conclusions.

1.  Attendance was about 1000 before Eternity.  Then Eternity brought about 1500 professions of faith.  That is 150% of the entire number of attendees of the church.  There was sincere effort at follow-up of those people who made those professions.  Yet, a year later, attendance at the church is the same as it was before Eternity.  Why?
 
2.  Several months after 1500 professions of faith were reported to have occurred in his church, the long-time pastor left to "devote his time to evangelism and missions."  1500 "professions of faith" didn't give him ample
opportunity to "devote his time to evangelism and missions" right where he already was?   Why?

3.  When the senior pastor position opened up shortly after Eternity had been there, did any MFI-affiliated pastors apply for the position?  How much MFI recruitment goes on during these Eternity gigs?

For those of you wondering about your favorite bitter blogger, I came across this recent entry from JP's family blog:

It’s been a good week of growth for Aiden’s little apple. There has been plenty of sunshine mixed with lots of rain (life in the Northwest is beautiful). Lets check in and see how our little fruit is doing:

[Insert picture of green apple] 

What!?! He's chronicling the growth of an apple!

This is ridiculous. Maybe some of you could leave a comment on his blog and politely ask him to get his ass back here!

Interesting article about how Kirk Cameron became a Christian and how it has affected his acting career.

Key quote:

I had one producer in a meeting discussing a movie say, 'So I hear you've got content issues.' You know, absolutely I've got content issues," Cameron says. "What I would say is I've got convictions. I've got priorities. If someone was asking me to do something that would compromise my relationship with my wife I wouldn't do that; if that's going to hurt my marriage, I'm not going to do that. If it's going to hurt my kids, I'm not going to do that and I take it a step further and say if this is going to hurt someone else's kids, I don't want to be a part of that."

"It's about personal integrity," he says, "that's all."

Condescend much?

Cameron says he'd love to do non-religious films and TV again, but at times it's difficult to convince producers that while he has found Jesus, he hasn't lost his sense of humor.

Ha! Yeah, because the Left Behind film was a laugh a minute.