Judah Smith’s Mistaken Love
Posted on June 5th, 2007 by Reformed Pope into the The City Church categoryTeapot,
Per your request, I listened to Judah Smith's sermon titled "Mistaken Love" and will now share my thoughts:
It was way, way, way too long. You failed to mention that it was an hour plus sermon…and I also would have appreciated you mentioning that I could skip the first 20 minutes of it because he didn't have a single useful thing to say during that time.
He did however mention that everyone should enjoy when his wife speaks because she is so good to look at every single minute. Now Judah, I understand what you are trying to do here which is compliment your wife (a wise thing to do, albeit slightly over done by EVERY SINGLE YOUTH PASTOR IN AMERICA), the problem is that you also spend so much time preaching on purity that it seems slightly odd you would encourage young people to check out your wife. I realize this was not his intention, but still…it left me wondering.
Mistaken Love is the appropriate title for this sermon. In it Judah tried very hard (and very long) to tell us why it is important to "be good" because we love God and each other, and NOT because we have to. This, in itself, can be a great and powerful sermon. I really wish I could say that Judah got this right. Unfortunately, this was probably the most disturbing sermon I have heard in quite awhile.
Judah starts by discounting "grace" in saying that so many of his youth think "Grace is Grease…it can get you out of anything" and then goes into the reason we NEED to be so good is out of love for God (and by goes into, I mean takes 45 minutes talking about seemingly nothing before getting to his point…lots of stories…lots of voices…I still love his voices).
Judah is right, we should "Be Good" because of our love for God, but he fails to tell us WHY we should love God. Which is because He sent His Son to die on the Cross bearing our sins, so that when we screw up…and we all screw up…we don't have to suffer the consequences of our sins (hell) because Jesus covered them for us. And on top of it all He doesn't demand anything from us other than belief in Him, because He knows we can't handle it…you see the real point should have been: WE CAN"T BE GOOD ENOUGH…but we don't have to be, Grace really is Grease. It really will get you through all your mess ups. That is a powerful message.
But Judah doesn't seem to want to talk about the Grace of God and I would guess that could be because of one or two reasons:
One:
Judah doesn't really understand the Gospel of Jesus and despite the fact that he could spout off the same things I have just said, it isn't real to him (I lived this way for many many years. It's one of the reasons I blog). He knows Jesus saved him, but he still needs to "do the right thing" so that he can feel worthy of the Love of God. Judah, Jesus loves you, regardless of anything you might do. He will always love you, and you know what? HE died for you, while you were still a sinner. He didn't wait for you to change, He didn't dangle salvation in front of you like a carrot; baiting you to be good so that you could earn His love, NO. He just loves you.
or Two:
Judah is afraid that if he preached the true Gospel that everyone would realize it has nothing to do with how much you read your Bible, how much you Pray, how big your youth group is, how many conferences you get invited to…we are all the exact same: SINNERS. And damn it Judah, there is only one thing we can do about it. Accept the gift that Christ offers. (Judah, by the way, tells everyone these same things…but yet he still misses the point)
Judah may realize that being a "Holy Man of God", like he so often claims to be, doesn't mean anything. Judah is a sinner just like the rest of us (it only takes one sin to be a sinner). The true Gospel is offensive, it tells us that God was the one who chose us and we had nothing to do with it. It makes us powerless, despite what we may want to do, despite how good we may act, despite how many times we shower, it is entirely up to God. God chose me just like God chose Judah…it is very humbling, imho.
Judah completely misses the point in the 1 hour and 10 minutes of preaching where he is real close yet so far away. He ends by listing things he doesn't do, which to no one's surprise were: Going to R-Rated movies, Drinking, and Whistling at Pretty Girls as they walk by (he seriously used that as an example). He claims to do all these things because he: loves God, loves his wife, loves people, and loves little Billy.
Ah yes, little Billy. Judah used Billy in 2 of the 3 examples: Imagine if little Billy sees you walking out of an R-Rated movie. Maybe God has released you to see R-Rated movies, maybe the sex in movies has no effect on you, but imaging walking out and seeing little Billy (who's dad got him hooked on porn at the age of 11). What are you going to say to little Billy? See you on Sunday?
Also, Judah doesn't drink. You may call that legalistic (personally I prefer to call it religious, but whatever) but Judah says it's holy. And it's because he loves little Billy. Here, as best as I can remember it, is what Judah had to say about drinking (to be read in your best southern accent):
"People say to me, Judah, Why don't you drink? Jesus turned water into wine and you've been trying to turn it back to water ever since. Well I say…Shut up… Shut up."
"People say, Judah, is it ever Miller time for you? Is ‘this Bud' ever for you? And I say NO, because what happens when little Billy comes over. What do I tell him? Billy, do you want to try some Budwiser? Would you like some Miller time?"
Honestly, this sermon was the most religious - non religious sermon I have ever heard. Judah just doesn't quite get it and sadly I imagine there were a number of young teens listening that thought he had nailed it. Now all they have to do is figure out how to love God.
To sum up, Mistaken Love left this reviewer…cold.
RSS feed for posts
June 5th, 2007 at 6:52 am
I should also mention that Judah made it through the entire sermon without mentioning the shower…
And Teapot, I’m really curious why wanted me to listen to this sermon. I’d love to hear your thoughts on it. Even if they are the complete opposite of mine. It’s always great to get a second opinion.
June 5th, 2007 at 7:20 am
“Shut up” is such a great comeback and Biblical reason for not drinking.
June 5th, 2007 at 7:40 am
A lot of people don’t know this but those are the 11, 12 and 13 commandments, respectively.
I actually went to go listen to the sermon, but then got sidetracked by Chelsea’s “Hows your love life?” sermon…
…sadly, it had nothing to do with her love life, but was all about how much God loves us. which is a good message, but I’m not sure why the need for the double entendre in the title.
June 5th, 2007 at 8:02 am
I’ve heard Judah use this reasoning in a couple of sermons…it honestly sounds like there might be some issues left over from High-School. I’m getting the impression that Judah might have gotten teased a bit for NOT drinking.
Judah…it’s ok to not drink. In fact, its probably good for you.
I might start trying this tactic the next time someone brings up Malachi 3.
June 5th, 2007 at 11:16 am
Little Billy would hopefully decline the Miller and Bud, knowing full well what real beer tastes like.
June 5th, 2007 at 11:20 am
LOL Karli! I’m so glad to have met another beer snob.
BTW, I tried to listen to that sermon and gave up about 16 minutes in. I just got tired of all the irrelevant stories about how his family is weird and begging for people to shout out “amen”. If you gotta ask for it, you don’t deserve it…
June 5th, 2007 at 12:36 pm
Alaska Amber Ale is a good beer.. if you like beer…
June 5th, 2007 at 12:46 pm
And how do you make the leap from little Billy seeing you drink a beer to passing him the bottle and shoving it down his throat.
Judah…if you choose to live your life being what you think is a role model for every last gnut and ant…guess what? You’ve failed. Cause you pissed off most of the people here with your phoney’ness and misguided preaching. Oh, but wait…we don’t count. Well…I’m sure there’s some “qualified” person in your youth audience that thinks spiky hair and an obsession for watches or sex/shower talk is a sin. My point is…
Why not tell Lil Billy that drinking is an issue the Bible doesn’t concretely address but isn’t a heaven/hell issue and just suggest he steer clear of it until he’s older and can pray about it and understand that beer (despite it’s terrible taste) is not strong enough to remove the Grace of God from our lives!
June 5th, 2007 at 7:57 pm
It might take awhile for the Judites to catch wind of this review, but once they do I place the over-under on total number of comments in the next month at 250. Personally, I’d take the over.
June 6th, 2007 at 12:02 am
Reformed Pope said:
“‘Shut up’ is such a great comeback…I’ve heard Judah use this reasoning in a couple of sermons…”
Sounds like Judah needs to stop watching so much O’Reilly.
June 6th, 2007 at 1:45 am
The “shut up” comment shows an “I’m on the platform/you are down there” attitude that is sickening. I’d have walked out.
If locutus is correct, perhaps this would be a good place to highlight the real gospel vs. megachurchianity. Christianity is about doing what Jesus tells us to do, not giving money to building projects, going to endless meetings or tithing your income. A few minutes meditating on Luke 6:46 would be a good start.
June 7th, 2007 at 10:46 am
Thank you Karli!! My thoughts precisely. Sheesh, pass the Widmer Hefeweizen please! And it better be cold!
June 8th, 2007 at 8:21 pm
I have some comments about your review of this message.
I’m not going to try and debate what Judah believes about grace and the balance between grace and works, but I will say some things about the motive behind our understanding of grace.
I think that grace is so often perverted by people who willingly try to minimize the reality of God’s justice in an effort to create a “feel good” religion. Religion, in a revised definition according to the way it has been used in this blog, is anything that distances you from the intimacy of knowing Jesus. Therefore, if our attempt’s at justifying certain behaviors under the guise of “grace” because we are not “under the law” or saved according to works, we are creating in effect religion.
The abuse of grace comes (and I do not believe it is possible to abuse grace because of it’s nature to ‘abound.’), when we limit the scope of our focus on behaviors and trying to justify them, not to a larger body of people but to ourselves.
I am not going to draw a line in the sand and talk about how much not drinking, etc… shows that you love God. But do think that if I were ever in love with God, if He asked me not to drink I would… because I am not motivated by a pre-subscribed idea of what grace is and all the stuff it entitles me to do…
In romans 14:23 Paul writes that if a man who eats (and in the vast array of application we could use, drinks, smokes, masturbates, watches r rated movies.) without confidence is condemned because it is not from faith, and anything that is not from faith is sin.
In other words, if we are constantly trying to justify behavior under the guise of grace… or maybe in more subtle forms, we are in sin. We are not condemned to hell, but we are in need of repentance. The point I have come to personally, is I would rather be in love with Jesus and give up every thing, including the things that are acceptable, than to hold on to the things that are acceptable and run the risk of losing intimacy. And that is not to say that drinking will cause you to lose intimacy. But if it convicts you it will. R Rated movies will not send you to hell. But if it takes away your confidence in God, you might want to re evaluate how important watching r rated movies is to you.
I also disagree with your statement that we are all just sinners. You are wrong. We are all sons. And as sons we are held to behave like sons, and not like rebellious bastard children who have not father. I get your point, but a correction in who you think you are is imperative here. I get what you are trying to convey, I do, but I live knowing that I am redeemed, and thus filled with the Spirit of Adoption and as such I am liable as a son. If I am disobedient to my Father, I know He will discipline me. In love of course, but there will be discipline none the less.
American Christianity is too soft. We think love is being kind and fuzzy, but love asks, love demands, love motivates, and love covers. Love is tender but love is also tough. Love will cover iniquity but love will also root out sin for the purpose of restoration. God doesn’t call us to be loved He calls us to be Holy as He is Holy. And because He is motivated by love He will discipline you and I so that we may share in His Holiness. God does not have time to play games with you if you are a son. He is working out the nature and character of Christ in you, and He has invested a destiny and His own Spirit in you, and He cannot afford for you to dilly dally in sin and aimlessness and waste the potential He created you with. You cost Him too much. The Blood of Jesus is too precious to be abused and thrown around so flippantly.
June 8th, 2007 at 8:39 pm
Thank you for all that. I agree with everything you just wrote and think you are dead on. That is a great message to share. I imagine you spent a lot of time putting that together and it is a balanced message which is important…
I imagine that I take the extreme side way to much to try to prove a point, but what you said I agree with.
Thanks.
June 9th, 2007 at 9:02 am
I sense some sarcasm.
June 9th, 2007 at 9:13 am
No sarcasm intented. I honestly agree with what you wrote and think it is great.
I especially liked this part:
Good job, sounds like you have a real balanced understanding grace. Thank you.
August 14th, 2007 at 5:28 pm
Do the walk before you do the talk. It sounds like you guys have nothing better to do other than bash someone else. Jesus taught to love and His message was “he that is not against us is for us.” It’s very sad that Christians are fighting among themselves and who is the winner? The devil! You do seem like folks who don’t do anything but spend your time on this unnecessary talks. Good luck! I am not even a member of that church nor do I regularly attend it but stuff that you are saying about it is quite pathetic.
No comment..
August 14th, 2007 at 5:35 pm
1 Corinthians 5:12-13 …Do you not judge those who are within the church? But those who are outside, God judges.
Thanks for the comments, Michael.
August 16th, 2007 at 10:12 am
thesouthafrican said:
In romans 14:23 Paul writes that if a man who eats (and in the vast array of application we could use, drinks, smokes, masturbates, watches r rated movies.) without confidence is condemned because it is not from faith, and anything that is not from faith is sin.
How can you say drink in this contents? JESUS CAN NOT HAVE SINNED. If Jesus sinned then all what we believe is a lie!!!!!!!!! Jesus drank wine .. and he did it quite often. Jesus TOLD US to drink wine with one and another. And you can drink your grape juice but that is not what Jesus said for us to do.
I can not believe you would put drinking in this list as a sin with the likes of smoking masturbating and watching R rated movies. Your making up commandments.
The bible doesn’t say anything about smoking or masturbating that I know of at all. The Romans did all kinds of things that where not healthy in that culture and Jesus nor Paul addressed anything to this.
Watching R rated movies? Ok, so this is gray area. IE: Porn can probably be construed as prostitution. All scriptures on prostitution can probably apply to Porn (I am not going to mention that early mid-evil bibles where covered with Porn and well the Song of Solomon was quite sexual). But R rated movies? Well I guess it all depends on why its rated R. If its rated R because its basically a soft porno or just plane demonic (monsters zombies demons and such) well there are scriptures that you can apply. But I can think of quite a few R rated movies that can no way be made a sin!
It is this kind of made up sins and legalism is not good for anyone. Your adding to the bible and last I heard that was a sin!
Yes I do not want my kids Youth Pastor to be drinking and hanging out in bars. But I also don’t want my kids to think that if you drink a beer your living a life of sin. That would make Jesus a sinner!
August 16th, 2007 at 2:07 pm
Read the whole post. Not once did I say that drinking is a sin. But if drinking affects your confidence with God and it can’t be done in faith (knowing that it won’t and cannot affect the way WE relate to God, and not vice versa) then THAT is a sin. In Pauls day, the issue at hand was eating meat. In our day, the issues that are applicable to us. We read Pauls statements and think, “how absurd that eating meat be an issue.” Apparently it was… and apparently drinking and porn, etc… are. (and by this is do not mean to imply that they are “sins” absolutely. No, what I draw attention to is one word: motive.)
You said that the Bible used to be covered with Porn. But still, because it happened does not necessarily mean that it was right does it? Americans once owned slaves. It doesn’t still make it right does it? Anyhow, that is not even the point. The point of Grace and the abuse of it goes beyond theology and trying to determine what sins are actually sins and what is not. The issue is Jesus. And how we are motivated by Him and for Him.
August 16th, 2007 at 2:24 pm
Motivation…. great. So let us drink our beer (because we like it), and I don’t think it is anything like meat in Paul’s era. Why? Because the only people offended by drinking today are conservative-fundamentalist-annoying Christians.
Martin Luther drank beer and so will I
August 16th, 2007 at 3:18 pm
Jesus only gave us 1 commandment and that was to DRINK ALCOHOL and EAT with friends. I for one will follow his commandment while you can be in disobedience and arrogance and holy smolly better then thou (like the pharisees) I don’t drink smoke or chew or hang out with those that do. Eating little factory made wafers and drinking grape juice in a thumb size cup. That is not communion! Not communing with your friends church members or God. You want communion you need to have a back yard BBQ Saturday and invite your friends serve some Fat Tire (Bud light is not real beer) and a bottle of wine, let the kids play together (off the X-Box) and call it a Sabbath!
That is the intention of communion. Just my honest opinion!
August 17th, 2007 at 8:18 am
Amen brother. I once heard a sermon from Mark Driscoll at Mars Hill Church, in which he encouraged everyone to prepare for the “Marriage Supper of the Lamb” by going home, inviting friends over, getting out the BBQ, and opening a bottle of wine - sounds like Former NBCC Member and Driscoll are both “hearing” from the Holy Spirit.
Oh, and I also say, ‘yes and amen” to Former NBCC Member’s critique of Bud Light… it is not real beer - do not be deceived. I suggest a good British import like Newcastle, or a great local microbrew. In Seattle we have a microbrewed beer called Mac & Jack’s, and it is heavenly.
We call know that the Devil drinks Bud light, so let us imitate Christ and pursue better beers! Amen
August 17th, 2007 at 10:04 am
Actually there is more biblical principle to what I was saying then joke. Jesus and the disciples where practicing a Jewish tradition called shabbat http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shabbat . If you take all the religion out of it .. well you get what I said
Although it was a Thursday not a Saturday it was the passover so Shabbat would have been necessary.
July 17th, 2008 at 1:20 pm
Judah Does know about Grace. He preaches a whole series on it. If you are interested, Listen to this.
http://www.generationchurch.org/audio
It will be under February 2008
July 17th, 2008 at 2:17 pm
No, i listened to a couple of those sermons. Judah may “know about Grace” but he sure doesn’t get it.
One thing that really stood out to me was that you could have taken any one word and replaced it with Grace and had a whole new series. What I mean is in one sermon he talked about When Grace Grips you…but it could have been a sermon on When Faith Grips you, or When Love Grips you…or any other word. He used a bunch of cliche’s, told some funny stories, used some great accents, and wasted my time.
July 18th, 2008 at 3:51 pm
Preaching and practicing are two very separate areas my friend. I have no idea if Judah really understands the true gospel of grace or not, hell I have to preach it to myself everyday to avoid from falling back into mans message of works. But if Judah truly has chosen to walk in the biblical meaning of grace his lifestyle will reflect it, not just his words. The best way to tell, a person of grace stands for all things Jesus. There’s no seeking of mans acceptance or spiritual ladder climbing. There’s no elitism and you dine with both the Jew and the gentle, the rich and the poor. Life is all about living in Christ and Him crucified. Nothing else matters.
July 19th, 2008 at 2:04 pm
I agree! I finally heard a couple of these messages and JS is shooting the right arrow, he’s just pointing it in the wrong direction. The most ironic thing I found about what he’s preaching is that he spends at least 20 minutes of each sermon stroking his ego by telling the audience what a great man he is. To me grace is all about walking in humility, yet in one message he spent half the time talking about how all his high school buddies wrote in his yearbook how great he was. Things like “Judah, your the coolest Christian I ever met”, or “Smith, thanks for being my hero.” I mean who publicly shares that kind of stuff unless they actually buy into it? Then in another message he talked all about how some rich business man gave him a brand new Cadillac Escalade, and he had to freely accept it like we all need to freely accept Gods grace. Really? If he understood grace he would have found some needy single mom with 6 kids and given the car to her instead. And then just this week he preached a message about green pastures and said he didn’t earn the right to preach before 25,000 people, but that God grace allowed him to. And that relates how?
Honestly, it sounds to me like JS is trying to get there but I think he needs some more study time in his word when it comes to understanding the real Gospel of grace. And you who buy into it should probably do the same.
July 19th, 2008 at 11:47 pm
The Reformer said: The most ironic thing I found about what he’s preaching is that he spends at least 20 minutes of each sermon stroking his ego by telling the audience what a great man he is. To me grace is all about walking in humility, yet in one message he spent half the time talking about how all his high school buddies wrote in his yearbook how great he was. Things like “Judah, your the coolest Christian I ever met”, or “Smith, thanks for being my hero. ” I mean who publicly shares that kind of stuff unless they actually buy into it?
Reformer your above comment says it all.
I can’t believe that you guys are honestly trying to figure out whether or not Judah has a clear understanding of Grace when the real problem is that the guy is obviously a complete narcissist and loves taking every possible opportunity to talk about himself.
July 20th, 2008 at 8:08 am
Haha I couldn’t have put it better myself.
July 20th, 2008 at 9:59 am
Ha! While this is true. It’s also true for about 80% of MFI pastors. So really, he is just behaving how his father taught him to behave.
July 20th, 2008 at 11:59 am
I guess everyone can look at it differently. When I listen to him preach, i didn’t take it as him being a narcissist, but rather, it was him relating his own experiences and life style with his interpretations of biblical teachings. We can argue if his interpretations if right or wrong, but than we have to also ask ourself the same thing. But as for me, being a communication major, I understand that part of public speaking is relating yourself and your experiences with what you are trying to communicate with the audience and I believe this is Judah’s method of doing that. Just ask yourself, would you rather have a monotone preacher who reads the bible for you verbatim and no application?
July 20th, 2008 at 1:00 pm
I agree with you that part of public speaking is relating yourself and your experiences with what you are trying to communicate with the audience.
What others are saying is that when he does that he comes across as full of himself. Talking about how great you are and how great all of your high school buddies think you are would just be looked at as bragging in any other public speaking situation. I agree with catalyst that he is behaving just like he was taught. What one generation does in moderation the next one does in excess.
I listened to a young pastor talk this morning on following God’s calling in your life. He used many examples from his own life and childhood in his message. Most of them were lessons he learned the hard way, the folly of youth etc. It was very funny and refreshing the way he was able to laugh at himself and tell how God was and is able to use even him in spite of his limitations. Something we can all relate to.
July 20th, 2008 at 3:06 pm
I don’t think anyone said that they want a monotone, verbatim preacher. I know I didn’t. What I did say is that I don’t want a hyped self-promoter spending 20 minutes of a 40 minute message telling me about all the great and wonderful things he has in his life and all the people who agree. In one message Judah said (and I quote verbatim here) “I want people in the world, from Hollywood to Sydney, to be jealous of me. I want them to look at my hot wife and beautiful kids and say, ‘man, I want what he’s got’.” You don’t think that sounds just a little arrogant? Maybe its just my opinion, but I wouldn’t sit around and listen to that from anybody.
Anyway, I heard a guy preach at some small church in SW Portland this week. He was an old white guy, probably over 60, short, fat, white hair. He gave one of the best messages I have heard in a long time. He talked about us as Christians being the salt of the world and what responsibility that has on it, yet all we do is just hang out in the salt shaker (the church) on a shelf doing nothing but being salty. He called on people to get out in the real world as teachers, nurses, police officers, etc. and influence their individual world for Christ. His message was 100% bible based, he shared great stories, used humor, and turned every point back to Jesus. It was great and I will always remember it because it mixed the truth of Christ with attention grabbing presentation but their was no self or group promotion. That’s something I can get behind.
August 24th, 2008 at 6:39 pm
I can understand how a lot of things that he says might be offensive to some….but aren’t we called to love God and love others? Pastor Judah isn’t perfect and neither am I. But to make him look like this dumb mindless person like you guys do in this blog just isn’t right or biblical….not only does God have grace with us but we should have grace with others like God does….and even though he might be wrong, the things that he says aren’t crazy and the kids that listen to him aren’t on there way to hell….you might think he isn’t helping these kids, but he definitly isn’t hurting them….We all know there is no such thing as a perfect pastor, and I would hope we all know that to judge others that you don’t know or even at all is just not christian.
I’m really trying not to offened anyone I just wanted to say that.
August 25th, 2008 at 8:32 am
If teaching these kids to treat God like some kind of genie in a bottle who you just have to rub the right way to get what you want isn’t harmful doctrine, then what is? Where do we draw the line? Is that really the way it’s supposed to be?
August 25th, 2008 at 9:06 am
I love the irony in these posts. We get them about once every few weeks. They judge us for judging others, then tell us it’s unbiblical to judge, yet they make no acknowledgement that they just violated their own judging standard. It’s really kinda funny.
August 25th, 2008 at 9:27 am
Joe,
Your suggestion that we all need to love God and others in relation to not asking questions is a common misconception in the body of Christ today. When we became Christians, checking our minds in at the door wasn’t a requirement so why would God ask us to do that now?
This discussion on Judah is a perfect example. Judah is a public figure and posts his messages on the internet for the entire world to see. That’s a choice he has made. If we choose to watch and listen then we need to make a value judgment on what we see and hear. ( A value judgment involves the mind as well as the spirit and emotions.) In this particular message, Judah shows a lack of respect for his audience when he takes 20 minutes to expound on his own attributes. Especially when that 20 minutes could be used to teach the scriptures.
According to what you commented you feel anything short of a positive review on this message is a lack of repect for Judah and not showing God’s love.
Ask yourself these questions: Why is it ok for Judah to show a lack of respect to the listener by taking up 20 extra minutes of the listeners’ time talking about how great he is? Why is not ok for some of the listeners (who happen to be Christians) to beg to differ with what he is doing and what he is saying? Do you see the double standard here?
August 25th, 2008 at 11:31 am
I think they use 1 Corinthians 6:1-7 to get out of all consequences for their actions. “Does any of you, when he has a case against his neighbor, dare to go to law before the unrighteous, and not before the saints?
2 Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world is judged by you, are you not competent to constitute the smallest law courts?
3 Do you not know that we shall judge angels How much more, matters of this life?
4 If then you have law courts dealing with matters of this life, do you appoint them as judges who are of no account in the church?
5 I say this to your shame. Is it so , that there is not among you one wise man who will be able to decide between his brethren,
6 but brother goes to law with brother, and that before unbelievers?
7 actually, then, it is already a defeat for you, that you have lawsuits with one another. why not rather be wronged? Why no rather be defrauded?
I just posted this passage of scripture on another thread and think it applies here also. Why is it that we have been taught so heavily that we are not to take our brother to court and not gossip or spread evil reports etc. etc., but there is never any teaching about how we the saints are going to judge this world? To me this passage of scripture says that we as the saints are even more qualified to judge or find the wise men among us that can decide between two brothers than someone outside the church. That would mean that we would be able to ask questions, talk to each other, reason, think, gather information and do whatever it takes to solve some of these problems between brothers. In the perfect world it would be great to be able to go to the Judah Smiths in person and privately tell them in love, some of the things that might need to be addressed in their lives. But they have used a lot of those imbalanced teachings about gossip and”touch not God’s anointed”, that they are above any kind of correction at all. Yes it’s too bad that this kind of thing has ended up happening on a blog but I believe it is because they have surrounded themselves with people that would never dare tell them the truth for fear being kicked out of the inner circle like the rest of us.
August 25th, 2008 at 2:07 pm
Joe,
I grew up listening to Judah Smith’s and other similar sermons and I cannot exactly say the sermons arent hurting the kids. I grew up listening to sermons about finding your calling, and how-tos and other work-based Christianity. At that time I was young, somewhat naive, came from a broken home & dysfunctional family. I wanted to get my life straight, so I trusted these pastors.
The works based Christianity that they preached never works because a person never finds fulfillment through works. I got frustrated & worn out because the joy and fulfillment Christianity promised was gone. I then turned away from Christ. I faced a lot of frustration over the years.
Later, I did come back to Christ because I discovered what he was really about. However, there are kids that mistake a false gospel for Christianity and once they turn away they never come back. Would you consider that spiritually harmful or not?