Five Lessons on… wait, why am I here again?
Posted on July 6th, 2007 by catalyst into the The City Church categoryI wasted a lot of time in high-school listening to youth pastors.
That's the lesson I took away from GC Pastor Wes Dunn's recent 40 minute diatribe errr sermon he called Five Lessons on Authority.
Here they are:
- Ask for help and listen
- Surround yourself with authority who will help you get where you want
- Learn to be teachable
- Allow leaders to come in and cut away things
- Honor your parents
Yeah, doesn't make much sense to me either. And Mr. Dunn spent the majority of that sermon telling stories about food. Which, of course, led me to imagine a rather portly Mr. Dunn huffing and puffing around the stage.
But here are a few random unrelated thoughts I took away, while the preacher weighed the pro's and con's of using a simmering sauce over a dipping sauce:
- The GC folk call their small groups, "Cadre's". This is, to put it mildly, lame. It is clearly one of those words the pastoral staff thought up, and then convinced all the kids that it was a normal word, and so it no longer sounds weird to them. But to me, listening to it for the first time, it sounds kind of creepy. Like, "Let's go out in the woods and drink Kool-Aid" creepy.
- Mr. Dunn compares getting a tattoo to circumcision. He says they're the same. hmmm. At the risk of revealing to much info, I will admit that I have no personal experience with tattoos or circumcision. I will say; however, that given a choice, I will take a tattoo EVERY FREAKING TIME. I will take getting an intricate life-size portrait of the Mona Lisa tattooed all over my back, before I let anyone get close to me with a circumcision knife.
That's just, you know, an fyi.
- As in all sermons involving authority, Mr. Dunn tells the kids they need to let their leaders cut out certain parts of their life.
(He says this after the Tattoo/circumcision comparison. So I'm wincing and reaching down to protect myself from any hypothetical circumcisions that might take place at my desk.)
And in all such "authority sermons", the aspects of life that need to be cut out are relationships and music. However, Mr. Dunn also includes an interesting twist and ads clothes as something to be cut out, leading to this statement:
Have you ever heard God say, "Get rid of those Jeans, I don't like them?"
WHAT!?!
"Um, No. I haven't. Because I'm NOT CRAZY."
Mr. Dunn ends the lesson with some soft piano music playing in the background and a prayer.
I felt manipulated in high-school listening to these sermons. And I feel manipulated now. Seriously, it was a waste of my time.
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July 6th, 2007 at 9:25 am
I feel like a lot of “preaching” to youth is emotional manipulation. I don’t necessarily think that pastors go into it with the thought that they want to manipulate young people, but I think they get too far into it without realizing what it is they are communicating.
I loved the movie “Saved” because it portrayed the hype and confusion of the message of God and how young people are told so many convoluted things rather than the simple things that really matter and that are actually helpful to them in becoming adults who can search out matters of faith on their own without being totally dependent on pastors, parents, etc. Because while that faith support system can be great, it doesn’t always last for everybody and when it is gone young people fall flat and often never recover. Young people need to be taught how to seek out answers on their own–and asking advice/opinions from pastors or parents is of course a natural part of that. But being given specific guidelines for spiritual maturity (down to the kind of jeans you should wear), actually distracts from the most important lessons.
I often felt confused about how and what I should be in high school and listening to sermons (on Sundays, Wednesday nights and at chapel–a good 3 times a week at the least) could be simultaneously encouraging and confusing. I always felt like I never did enough. I hadn’t been taught to self evaluate and really think about whether or not a particular message applied to me.
July 6th, 2007 at 10:45 am
I can hear it now:
SPFD: “Catalyst, this is Rabbi Dunlop. He’s here to cut away some things.”
RD: “Wow, Frank, look at him run.”
;)
‘Scrupe
July 6th, 2007 at 8:04 pm
I’m a little disappointed you passed on the obvious sermon of choice, Judah’s “The 411 on the BFF.” How hip. How relevant. How 1997.
July 7th, 2007 at 8:47 am
looks like you could go listen to jonah in all his flesh on 7/15 at the other cbc
July 9th, 2007 at 6:07 am
I spent a good deal of my life under “authority” and trying to make “authority” happy. I can say with a certain amount of confidence that it made me one of the most angst-ridden teens and young adults you could have ever met. I never felt comfortable in who I was because I was never sure if I was pleasing God or “authority”. Since I’ve come out of their system, I’ve finally experienced the kind of freedom to be my own person.
Just yesterday, in fact, my girlfriend was looking at my photo albums of that period in my life. She remarked that I looked awkward - as if I wasn’t comfortable in my own skin. She said I look much more confident now, and amazingly, that it actually had the effect of making me look younger. She made these comments not really knowing how bad it really was back then.
There is a difference between “honor your parents / respect those in authority” and “blindly follow everything I tell you”. The sooner you kids stop drinking their koolaid, the better.
July 9th, 2007 at 8:30 am
Well for the record, “Cadre” is actually a French term. I know this because I was formerly a member of one, which involved a not so pleasant 5 years of indoctrination.
Wesley, Wesley. He called me a few months ago and left a message because I didn’t feel the “Spirit leading” for me to pick up. His voicemail started with “This is PASTOR Wes…” Well apparently he’s the real thing now and I have to call him pastor. I honestly look forward to having my Ph.D in a few years so if I ever run into Judah (Judah Christ) or Wes again and they insist on being called Pastor… then I will conveniently and smugly pull out the “Doctor” card. … oh, and that’s no honorary doctorate by the way.
As depraved as that message was - the sad thing is that it came from GC’s most educated leader. He actually holds an accredited degree! He just doesn’t show it well. My favorite is his mispronunciation of “acclimated” and his use of P. Judah’s famous “irregardless.”
July 9th, 2007 at 1:27 pm
Am I the only one who finds it slightly ironic that these leaders, who dress like they should be in a Nordstrom’s catalog and are basically the definition of trendy, would talk about God telling someone to “get rid of their jeans”?
July 9th, 2007 at 1:38 pm
It is probable that they think they aren’t “attached” to those material things and therefore can own/wear whatever they want. They think that they don’t place such high importance on them that they have become an “idol”. But really, if a person spends $200 on one pair of jeans because they are trendy when you can get pants/jeans that are of similar quality for around $30 (give or take), but that don’t have the name brand, how is that NOT a form of idolatry? I doubt any of them could shrug off losing all of their clothing or would ever even consider giving it away for charity. It may not be fair to pick on them in this area–I’m sure there are many people who are the same way.
July 9th, 2007 at 2:39 pm
Let’s hope God doesn’t ask Judah to give up watches! He’ll be sulking in the shower for days!
July 10th, 2007 at 1:55 pm
So did Pastor Wes advocate for both tattoos AND circumcision or was he against both??? How are they alike besides both are alterations of the body. FWIW- I’m against both tatoos and circumcisions for children. Eh, when you’re an adult, do whatever you want with your body, but leave the children’s little bodies alone.
And if he thinks kids should cut out music, why was he playing the piano? Is he trying to confuse the youth???
My take:
Circumcision - never a good idea
Tattoos - probably not a good idea
Music - always a good idea
Peace & love!
July 15th, 2007 at 10:51 pm
You all sound very judgemental, I love God and this is the definition of GOSSIP. I know these people and beleive me they have good fruit. I’m amazed, there never is a lot of scripture when comments are made about a particuliar Pastor. For the record I never once was ordered to call a pastor a pastor at The City Church. Keep judging we will continue doing Kingdom work!
July 16th, 2007 at 7:25 am
straight up mikey j
July 16th, 2007 at 7:38 am
No, this is the definition of gossip:
At which point did anyone here discuss something of a private or intimate nature? Is anything discussed merely rumors or unfounded statements? Hmm, I read an editorial review of a public sermon broadcast on the Internet. This kind of journalism happens every day here in America.
If you equate this with gossip, you should carefully consider whether or not your loyalty to authority blinds you to free thinking.
July 16th, 2007 at 7:55 am
When the emporer has no clothes, the people that shine the light on it are always called names.
Mikey J, I know these people too, what is your definition of “good fruit”?
July 16th, 2007 at 7:13 pm
Seeing alcoholics and druggies sober, and kids who obey their parents, youth ministry that loves to pray, and part of good growing church.
Just some of the Good Fruit that i have seen.
July 16th, 2007 at 7:22 pm
Those are some good deeds, of course. The only problem is Mormons, Muslims and Jehova’s Witnesses can tout the same “fruit”…
I used to say the same thing until I started studying doctrine, and found where the prosperity gospel and “word of faith” doctrines really sprouted from and represented. I was forced to re-define what fruit was in light of scripture, not measuring it by man-made scales. Remember, the “arc” is not the church…it is Jesus Christ (if you went to church on Sunday you will know what I am talking about).
Food for thought…
July 16th, 2007 at 9:45 pm
Once again I give my full support to Craig’s last point. I too defended City and the pastors until God opened my eyes. I know all of them personally too, and their “fruit,” which usually entails good golf swing more than loving the poor (of course we all know that Jesus golfed and drove a Mercedes).
Mickey J… I only pray that someday you will understand. No offense my brother, but you perspective is very naive and uninformed. I am pretty sure that I spent more time serving and working and that church than you did. This is not gossip, this is not bitterness. This is an analysis of the “fruit” of a manipulative institution, which looks more like the world than like the orthodox Church.
July 18th, 2007 at 7:57 pm
Craig, I think you ment ‘Ark’ as in Noah’s Ark.