Taking one for the team
Posted on July 29th, 2007 by Reformed Pope into the Pastoral Staff categoryThis is for "And I'm not picking on love, cause I don't think Friendship exists either"
As I am sure I have mentioned before, when we first started this blog (December 2004) I had a meeting with a certain pastor from City Bible Church, we will call him Pastor X. During my meeting with this pastor he mentioned to me that he would "Take a bullet for Frank Damazio" and that he would additionally "Take a bullet for City Bible Church". Now, at the time, I was curious why he was so interested in dying for SPFD and CBC, but never mentioned dying for Jesus, The Gospel, or even The Word of God for that matter…seems like his priorities were a little mixed up.
Anyway, last night (during an 11 hour drive back from Lake Tahoe) I spent some time thinking about this comment a little more. I was struck with a picture of Pastor X arriving at the Pearly Gates after having just taken a bullet for Frank (not sure who was shooting at him, but somehow Pastor X managed to get in the way). Here is the imagined conversation that I pictured:
Pastor X: (just outside of Heaven, pushing his way through a rather long line) "Out of my way, V.I.P. coming through."
Archangel Gabriel: "Excuse me, sir…can I help you?"
Pastor X: "Why yes. I'm looking for the V.I.P. section?"
Archangel Gabriel: "V.I.P.?"
Pastor X: "Yes, don't you have a section for V.I.P. members here?"
Archangel Gabriel: "Well…according to John 3:16 the whole world is V.I.P., so you'll just have to wait like everyone else."
Pastor X: "No, no, no. I'm Pastor X. I just took a bullet for Frank Damazio…look it up in that book there…you'll see"
Archangel Gabriel: "Frank Damazio, huh?" (flipping though the Book of Life) "Hmmnnn…let me see… I have a Hank Dafazio, but I don't see any Frank…"
Pastor X: "Don't be ridiculous…of course he's in there, he practically wrote that book. You know him…Frank Damazio…of City Bible Church…in Portland, OR"
Archangel Gabriel: "Oh, you're with City Bible Church? Why didn't you just say so? You belong in that line over there marked LoF."
Pastor X: "LoF?…is that VIP?"
Archangel Gabriel: "No. It's Lake of Fire."
That was much funnier at four this morning while driving through Roseburg, but at least it's a start. I'll see if I can pick up the pace around here a little bit.
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July 30th, 2007 at 9:42 am
yeah, this one’s not much better. know any good jokes?
July 30th, 2007 at 9:46 am
Q: Why does SPFD stink?
A: So blind people can hate him to.
July 30th, 2007 at 2:23 pm
Mrs. Coleman fell “victim” to the CBC financial prowess. I guess at the end of the school year they told her she was done, that they were making her take mandatory retirement. She probably planned to teach “til death do us part.” Wonder if they gave her a retirement party even?
CBC has this well established reputation for firing people, justified or not. I was recently reading, last week, on Mondy Morning Insight about a church in Texas perhaps where everybody has the same salary from the head hauncho to the janitor. Something like 26,500 a year then add ons for spouse and each child dependent. Sounds good to me. A bit low base pay I would say, but everyone being paid the same in the House of God makes sense.
July 30th, 2007 at 3:25 pm
The formula used to decide on who to fire from their jobs at cbc(small letters)is obviously based on at least these two things.
!. How much money does this employee give back to frankie from their meeger salaries, which according to how much time and effort they are required to put in for it might come up to minimun wages in the real world.
2.How willing is this this employee to unquestingly do as they are told, never speek up or express their opinion about matters that are important if they might express disapproval of inhouse policies, or just refuses to be one of their many “yes Persons” Or try to express they have a mind of their own. (whow! I’m tired after that sentence so I’ll quit)
I’m sure there is much more that could be added to this criteria. Thoughts???
July 30th, 2007 at 3:30 pm
HEY JP DID YOU HERE FRANKLIN AND BOB SAGOT GOT TOGETHER WITH NBC AND I GUESS THERE COMING OUT WITH A NEW GAME SHOW CALLED 10% VERSUS 100.
July 30th, 2007 at 3:34 pm
WHO AM I?
I DONT BELIEVE ANYTHING
HEY ROBERT YOUR WRONG YOUR WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
EVOLUTION ISNT CONSIDERED A THEORY
BIBLE SMIBLE
I WANT TO BE A FINANCIAL SUCCESS
DONT POST THIS IM JESSE
July 30th, 2007 at 3:51 pm
FWIW, I remember back in ‘80 or ‘81, I was told by someone IN THE KNOW that KRI had figured out the average tither’s monthly salary (multiplying by 10, I assume), and made THAT the base salary for those who were pastors in the church AND who taught at PBC…came out to bout $1500, a modest stipend for that time. Serving in only one of the above areas earned a person $1300, as I recall.
I take it a slightly more propitious mathematical formula is employed nowadays
joebib
July 30th, 2007 at 4:23 pm
BREAKING NEWS BREAKING NEWS!!!
GOD TOLD PASTOR X HE CAN ACT!!!!!
SO GUESS WHAT? THAT’S RIGHT YOU WILL SEE HIM IN UPCOMING MOVIES SUCH AS…
TITHEFORMERS…
TAGLINE: YES MEGAN FOX WILL BE IN THIS ONE ALSO
BRIDGE TO TITHEABITHIA…
TAGLINE: ONE GUY ONE SUNDAY HOW WILL HE GET THE MONEY TO BUILD THAT BRIDGE.
MR. AND MRS. JUDAH SMITH..
TAGLINE: ANGELINA JOLIE WONT BE THE ONLY WEARING TIGHT PANTS THIS TIME.
I NOW PRONOUNCE YOU DOUG AND BENNY…
TAGLINE: BEING GAY IS SO IN RIGHT NOW
I KNOW WHO BILLED…
OMEGA CHODE…
AND LAST BUT NOT LEAST
LIVE FREE OR TITHE HARD….
DIRECTOR: FRANKFRANK
WRITERS: JESUS, GOD, AND LORD
REALEASE. SEPTEMBER 9 200HEAVEN
GENRE: GOD DOESN’T LABEL
July 30th, 2007 at 5:53 pm
jobib:
See if this fits in to your propitious mathamatical formula;
frankie skims off his 200 grand a year first and divides the rest according to the pecking order among his trailing robots==cbc yearly payroll
July 30th, 2007 at 8:45 pm
RP, will you take one for the blog?
July 31st, 2007 at 7:22 am
I will not take a bullet for this blog.
July 31st, 2007 at 7:50 am
This information about Joy Coleman really saddens me. I taught with Joy for years in the early days of TCS. She always held a high standard of education for her students and loved teaching. And, yes, she would have taught ’till death do us part’. I remember hearing her prophetic word years ago when a pastor said, “There is no rocking chair for you.” Joy was thrilled that God had called her to teach - and she was darn good. I also remember her meager wage (which was equal to mine and less than the men who had no education degrees like Joy and I did. When I talked to Howdy about this he said, “you are not the bread winner of your family”, Wait a minute, Joy was a single mom and I was a single gal trying to work and pay my rent!). Anyway, Joy told me that if she tithed regularly she would not be able to pay her bills. She and Catherine (her daughter) lived in a small apt. She did not drive but walked and took the bus everywhere.
Okay, I won’t go on and on but this is just terrible, although not surprising, news to me.
July 31st, 2007 at 8:14 am
She was easily the best teacher at the school, and one of the few that actually prepared her students for college.
The school is worse off without her.
July 31st, 2007 at 9:41 am
I also was put through a year of miss coleman, and not only did she catch me cheating she kept it to herself.
2 kudos for miss coleman
July 31st, 2007 at 10:19 am
Joel:
If you’re going to comment on this site. Please use another name, beside the one mom uses.
Thanks.
July 31st, 2007 at 10:35 am
WHAT? what was wrong with ROOMIES. I thought it was insightful and had a great story line. i even gave starbucks a new nickname.
Cat COME ON COOOME ON seriously COME ON put it back up.
alright fine you can edit it, but i thought that it was even funnier that i used mom’s name.
July 31st, 2007 at 4:03 pm
Agreed !
How sad, but not suprising being cauce she couldn’t keep up on her monthly dues to that merciless house of pain.
July 31st, 2007 at 8:12 pm
Hey, how come this post says you started the blog in December 2004 and yet the one that it links to says you started it in December 2005?
August 1st, 2007 at 5:22 pm
Once again I will attempt to inquire if anyone is aware of the new cbc franchise (viedo screen and all) recently rumered to have opened up in the Redmond-Bend area!
August 1st, 2007 at 7:38 pm
WasThereWitnessedThat said:
That’s funny.
August 2nd, 2007 at 8:28 am
Regarding how CBC treats its employees with less than market rate wages and willy nilly layoffs/firings……
Bottom line is people CHOOSE to work there, well aware of the salary they will receive. AND… people CHOOSE to continue working there when coworkers are fired, demoted, demeaned, you name it.
SOOOO… if people are stupid enough to think they are serving God’s higher purpose by CHOOSING to be treated such… it is their own fault for being treated like scum … having low wages… being fired willy nilly….
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:34 am
living life,
While I agree with on some level, there are many more factors at play. Based on my own experience and that of many others I have known/still know who work for CBC and other MFI churches: Many of these are people who do not really know that they have choices to make. Some are down-right scared to work “in the world” and feel they must “live in the bubble” to stay holy (”separate”) and/or safe and/or “be truly spiritual.” Many are deluded (by leadership) into believing that living like surfs and paupers is a “high calling.” Some have no clue how much the “executive” leaders make, and, if they do know, they figure that people higher on the food chain deserve to make more/are worth more. They’re persuaded to think that they will earn more jewels in their heavenly crown by living like paupers or being treated like slaves now. Many people who work there do not know what they are worth (probably because they were mistreated by key authority figures in their lives), so they put up with abusive and wrongful treatment, poverty wages, etc. I worked there myself once. Lowest paying job I’ve ever had. Least professional environment I’ve ever worked in. So much legalistic B.S. For all of those reasons, and then some, I didn’t stick around too long.
So, yes, while people CHOOSE, it’s not as cut and dried as you make it sound. Have a little compassion for those in bondage!
August 3rd, 2007 at 3:08 pm
Dear Free Indeed:
You have said it so well here. I agree with every statement you have written about the biblical manipulation and brainwashing that is used by the cbc(small letters intended) executive branch. They convince employees there that even tho they are getting screwed, it’s okay. “Keep up the good work” they say, “for the rewards for your sacrifices will be yours in heaven.” So what’s wrong with this picture. Shouldn’t that go for all of their executive branch also?
For those in bondage there for whatever reason, it is sad. When those who are maybe younger and have their whole life ahead of them get thru that “ministry phase” of their job there really should look at the real world. It really is not a bad place. Professional and financial rewards are infinite.
August 3rd, 2007 at 7:59 pm
Thanks, WasThereWitnessedThat. I agree with your comments, as well.
Just a little more on your last point: Not only are there professional and financial rewards in the world, but SPIRITUAL. I know, shocking to those immersed in the IC. How about being LIGHT in a DARK place? How about sharing the Gospel and LIVING the Gospel out authentically as we work alongside unbelievers? How about the Great Commission? What a concept.
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:42 pm
Reminds me of a dream I had:
I died and went to heaven.
The angle is showing me around a great big castle.
In one room there are a group of people dancing in a circle with a bottle on their head. Angel says these are Jews.
In another room there is a group of people chanting. Angel says these are the Hindus.
Then the angel says “now for this room you have to be extra quiet, It’s the Fundamentalist…. they think they are the only ones here….”
August 4th, 2007 at 3:38 am
I am in 110% agreement with the view that the widespread practice of paying employees sub-standard wages by any employers is not only ethically WRONG, but if it is being done in local churches, I firmly believe it qualifies as the sin of COVETEOUSNESS on the part of leadership.
Check out 1 Corinthians 5:9-11, 6:9-10; Ephesians 5:3-5; Colossians 3:5-6; 1 Timothy 6:10b.
Underpayment of employees is, if I may use the term, a “despicable” practice, and something for which I believe any who do it will be held accountable by God, with Whom, BTW — we are told in regard to His attitude toward employers, be they secular bosses or Senior Pastors — “there is no respect of persons” (Ephesians 6:9, KJV).
Additionally, it cannot be supported by Scripture — nor from Early Church practice — that ministers are/were to receive any sort of full-time “salary” in the first place. How much more would this apply when SPs not only pay themselves a regular salary, but a much higher one than those under them? Based, of course, on the standard appeal to 1 Timothy 5:17.
FWIW, the Greek words used in 1 Timothy 5:17 for “worthy” and “honor” don’t refer to “money,” per se, as can be seen just a few verses later (in 1 Timothy 6:1) when Paul tells slaves to regard their masters as “worthy” of “honor” — SAME Greek words. And I haven’t heard anyone attempt to put forth the novel theory that First Century slaves were in the habit of paying their masters for the privilege of being enslaved! According to every N.T. Commentary I consulted, biblical scholars are in agreement that had Paul wanted to refer to paying “monetary salaries” to leaders, he would have used different, better Greek words to convey this idea. Not to mention the fact that neither Jesus nor Paul received salaries, nor, as stated previously, can this practice be found in any Early Church writings. Occasionally, however, monetary offerings were, at times, given to ministers.
If I were a supervisor, foreman, boss, employer or owner of a company, not to mention a Senior Pastor of a local church, I would be extremely careful in making sure that those Scriptures dealing with the treatment of those under my charge were being COMPLETELY followed:
“14 Do not take advantage of a hired man…otherwise HE (the employee) may cry to the LORD against YOU (the employer), and YOU (the employer) will
be guilty of SIN.” (Deut. 24:14-15, NIV)
Incidentally, IF Senior Pastors are practicing/allowing this in their churches, then they have proven themselves to be in violation of 1 Timothy 3:3c, and have thus disqualified themselves, de facto, from being leaders at all.
In view of how rampant this practice is in local churches, it seems to me like a lot of SPs should not be SPs
Sorry for the rant.
joebib
P.S. In case anyone wants to email a few relevant Scriptures to their Pastors, more can be found in Exodus 22:21-27, Leviticus 19:13, Deuteronomy 10:17-19, 15:7-11 and Colossians 4:1.
August 4th, 2007 at 2:09 pm
These are still ADULTS we are talking about. They are still capable of making choices. True, one can get sucked into a cult situation, but they are still capable of making CHOICES.
Quit making excuses for people to
stupid(sucked into a plie of bull) to better themselves. God gave them a mind. God speaks to them, if only they would seek God on their own and LISTEN to God on their own.August 4th, 2007 at 10:41 pm
Poor stupid Mrs. Coleman for choosing to work at cbc. It’s her own damn fault for being treated like scum… having low wages… being fired willy nilly…. According to living life these are adults we are talking about, capable of making CHOICES…………….I don’t think anyone is making excuses for people. They sound like they have some empathy,something you or the employers at cbc obviously don’t have.
August 5th, 2007 at 10:28 pm
Dear Rhema S….Your harsh response surprises me. Considering your experience with leadership and abuse of power. Unfortunately we don’t see the final outcome prior to entering what appears to be God’s direction for us. Many of us have experienced an awful lot of heat/fire before we jumped/or were thrown from the pan. My two daughters were fortunate to have sat under her teaching before she was laid off.
RE; MRS. JOY COLEMAN
She has sold her home at….3445 NE 89th (corner of Freemont and 89th) PTLD. 97220
She will have to be out of her home by Aug. 31st. She has bought a home in Salem, New Jersey (where she grew up). Please spred the word to those who would appreciate knowing this and would like to communicate with her before she leaves. I know it woud be a great blessing and encouragement to her to read and hear words of appreciation of her many years of teaching and devotion to her students. Her phone number is
(503)-252-9453.. Please call or write her as soon as possible. Thankyou…
August 6th, 2007 at 6:34 am
CHOICES. Doesn’t matter if you are smart or stupid or inbetween.
August 6th, 2007 at 8:55 am
caj, if you read closer my response was taken from what living life said, I just put Mrs. Colemans name in to make it personal so people could see how harsh living life’s response was. People with no empathy always seem to blame the victims in these situations. I think what has happened to Mrs. Coleman is terrible. I know how these churches treat single women I was one of them. I never had a position in one but I’ve had friends who did . One that worked in Rhemas christian school for two hundred dollars a month plus board and room. She lived with Doug and Lois Cotton. They had a live in babysitter and maid plus school teacher all rolled into one. She also produced all of the Christmas Plays and anything else they ever wanted her to do. She said all those years she thought she was having a relationship with them and loved to serve her church. When she finally married and she joined her new husband in his ministry outside of the church they dropped her like a ton of (bibles?) She then realized what she thought was relationship was really just what she could do for them and when that wasn’t happening anymore they were no longer interested. Another single gal I know down here was church secretary at one church for twenty or thirty years working for small wages with no benifits etc. living in church housing when the church decided they couldn’t afford her anymore but they kept the youth pastor on full time and ler her go.The pastor thinks they can do without a secretary for now and do it himself or find volunteers to fill in. What a mess! Women especially are treated like chattle in these churches. I’ve seen my own mother who is now eighty years old, has been single since she was forty six , never finding a place in the body of christ. Her home is always filled with other young single women just wanting someone that cares for them and understands them. If Mrs. Coleman had a husband cbc was interested in or was a relative of theirs they would not be doing this to her! Yes caj I do understand what Mrs. Coleman is going through thats why I had such a sarcastic response. I could go on and on about what has been done over and over to single women through the years in these types of churches but if I go too far with my examples I’ll probably be accused once again of being bitter and unforgiving. I think that applies to things in the past doesn’t it? These things are still happening to our sisters in Christ and if we keep silent nothing will ever change! In my opinion we need to start standing up against the injustice and standing with our brothers and sisters in Christ and put a stop to this abuse once and for all.
August 6th, 2007 at 9:23 am
My apologies Rhema…thanks for your correction.
August 6th, 2007 at 9:42 am
Living Life…your absolutely correct in that we have choices. When Mrs. Coleman started her position not only was it a job choice but most likely looked on as a provision from the Lord. As time goes by we believe the best of others and pray for guidance and hopefully changes where we see the need. Things happen slowly over time. Ones perspective of what their choices are take on a whole different appearance over time. Just because we have choices doesn’t mean each ones personal issues don’t make them excruciatingly difficult at times. Empathy too is a choice for those brothers and sisters in times such as those.
August 6th, 2007 at 12:42 pm
I have empathy for her. I will not make excuses for choices she made to ACCEPT whatever salary she was receiving all those years she “dedicated” to TCHS. Or for anybody else who CHOOSES to stay in a situation they are not happy about the salary or other circumstances of a job.
If this is the case, then the Lord giveth and the Lord taketh. There is no feeling to be had then at retirement at near 80 years of age than joyful celebration that the Lord provided all these years and now the Lord will provide for your retirement. Never mind there are things we need to be doing for ourselves to provide for retirement also.
August 6th, 2007 at 5:33 pm
Maybe Mrs. Coleman was just fine with the choice she made. It sounds like she planned to retire there. What excuse is there for cbc treating her like crap all these years and then giving her the shaft in her old age?
August 7th, 2007 at 9:08 am
A lot of talk about choices here. When many of you younger people get a few years older you are going to realize available choices to you dwindle as the years creep up on you, no matter what profession you choose. When you spend many years with the same employer and suddenly that secure rug is yanked from under you, you will find your choices many times are nill. Ask any older brother or sister who desperately needs a job what their options or choices are. It might be a wake-up call for you.
August 7th, 2007 at 4:11 pm
Excellent point, pleasedreader…Thank you.
August 7th, 2007 at 8:21 pm
Is it really wise to put somebody’s name, address, and phone number on a blog for all to see???
August 7th, 2007 at 9:35 pm
Considering the circumstances surrounding Mrs. Colemans situation I felt this site was one of the quickest avenues of notifying people she has touched in her teaching career. I hope people pass on this information to those who might want to share with her personally
how much they appreciated her as a teacher and perhaps a friend before she leaves. I didn’t have any luck with the office or talking with various teacher regarding putting out some sort of announcement concerning her leaving. I hope no one has to say ‘I just wish I would have known she was leaving so I could have thanked her.” I hope Mrs. Coleman hears alot of thank yous before she leaves…
August 8th, 2007 at 6:21 am
Someone told me she is refusing phone calls
August 8th, 2007 at 6:37 am
Ha. Good for her. She probably just doesn’t want people’s pity.
Mrs. Coleman was a very smart woman. And I suspect she new full well that her tenure at City Bible may be cut short, especially when City Bible was firing PBC professors left and right.
(FWIW, this isn’t a male/femal thing. This is a “Frank Damazio is a bad leader” thing)
My guess is Mrs. Coleman kept her job as long as possible, and prepared for the day she would get fired. [I believe her favorite motto was “semper paratus” - always prepared] And since that day has come, she is now moving on with her life. I wish her the best.
August 8th, 2007 at 7:21 am
Amen, sister.
I’ve seen it too.
I was also touched by the note about the teacher/maid/babysitter living with the pastor and wife.
What more can you share of what she did (grade level of children she taught, things she did for the church)?
$200 a month is very little in any year. But do you know what years she was paid that pittance?
Does she still serve the Lord or has she been so wounded that she has turned away?
Thank you for sharing.
August 8th, 2007 at 7:29 am
catalyst said: This is a ” Frank Damazio is a bad leader “thing. I know this is a stupid question even before I ask but why are these people allowed to stay in leadership and what could be done (in a perfect world) to remove them? Is this just something particular to MaFIa churches or is this happening in others as well? Is it just the pastor that is bad or is it the whole eldership that supports him? It seems like CLF only got rid of Doug Cotton because his rage and control was mostly directed at his staff so they had first hand knowledge of his stuff. When it’s just us common folk trying to tell the higher ups what’s happening to us we are either not believed (labeled and shunned) or nobody cares since its not happening to them. The only recourse we have is to leave (quietly so as not to spread discord )forever banned to blogdom.
August 8th, 2007 at 10:46 am
Re: Mrs. Coleman…She may not pick up all her calls but she does have an answer machine. Leave any well wishes on her machine and your phone number. She would I’m sure love notes in the mail too.
August 8th, 2007 at 2:33 pm
Move over Mother Theresa.. there is a new saint to take your position.
In fact LOTS of them vying for the spot…
All those people who CHOSE to work for substandard wages.. who KNEW when they took the jobs however many years ago or recently that the wages were SUBSTANDARD… who CONTINUED to allow themselves to be subject to abuse by said systems whether real or imagined…
August 8th, 2007 at 3:40 pm
I love it when people finally understand what it is to make a choice and it is such an impacting revelation to them that they have trouble seeing or understanding, or pretty much find it impossible to see or understand how people can be pressured or manipulated into making certain choices. Yes, we all understand that it is STILL a CHOICE–that doesn’t ABSOLVE other peoples ACTIONS or MANIPULATION or MISTREATMENT of those people who made those CHOICES.
August 8th, 2007 at 5:26 pm
just thinking.. and how do YOU now if people were PRESSURED or MANIPULATED or MISTREATED??
Maybe people were or maybe they were not. But people need to quit making excuses for making poor choices. Choices is all about the free will to choose that God gave out.
Move over St. Peter and St. Paul… here come more vying for sainthood
August 8th, 2007 at 6:06 pm
This post is beginning to make Joy look like she is writing all this and has a bad attitude about her job and job loss. When Joy and I began to work at the school, we were excited to see a school go from ACE to traditional classroom and we both wanted to be a part of the change and growth. I do not believe we felt manipulated at the time. For me personally, it was a great chance to get into the classroom and learn a ton about teaching. It was my choice to stay - it was Joy’s choice to stay. We loved the people we worked with and became lifelong friends. Sometimes there are benefits of working that far outweigh the pay. Sometimes we make decisions to stay where we are because going to look for something else (which would probably have problems too) would not be worth it depending upon our need for further education/experience.
Please don’t make it sound as if Joy was some manipulated single mother who was too stupid to see what was best for her and Catherine - remember, she was a single mother with limited options and she chose to serve in her local church school. She is loved and will be missed. But retiring at 80 yrs. old - my hat is off to her for staying soooo long! My only wish is that she would have been more appreciated and blessed as she left…remember…’they shall go out with joy and be lead forth with peace…’ lol
August 8th, 2007 at 7:02 pm
Nicely put… Tri4Christ…
August 8th, 2007 at 7:05 pm
I don’t know that anyone was pressured, manipulated or mistreated–nor did I ever claim that I did. I make the allowance that everything is a choice even when there is pressure and manipulation. It just doesn’t seem to me that you make the allowance that there are many times (throughout history and all over the world), that pressure and manipulation put people in situations that cause them to feel that they have no choice. I am NOT talking about the Mrs.Coleman situation nor was I in my first post–I am speaking in generalities. I agree with you that people should always take responsibility for their choices–even when/if they feel they had no choice but one. In a perfect world people would not feel those pressures and constraints and would make wholly free choices. It is difficult for people to admit responsibility/wrong doing/etc when we feel that we were put upon.
It is so easy to blame other people for our choices–I did for years. I blamed my mother for about 13 years for the choices that I made. I recognized about two years ago that I can’t blame her for my choices and that if I had been stronger and more self aware I would have made choices for myself rather than for her. This does not mean that my mother did not pressure me and TRY to manipulate me–she did do those things and I don’t think it was right of her to behave that way. But I no longer hold her responsible for my choices. She is responsible for her actions and I am responsible for mine. Also, since I had that realization my relationship with my mom is 100 times better than it was.
August 9th, 2007 at 7:18 am
So all of those people in the twin towers CHOSE to work there, CHOSE to get out of bed on 911 and go to work, CHOSE to stay in the building after the first plane hit, CHOSE to jump out of the windows instead of taking the stairs……. I think everyone gets your CHOICES analogy living life. People around us still need to be shown some empathy and compassion when things in life don’t go as we expected. We all make lots of choices every day. I think most adults get that. Most of the people on this blog coming out of abusive churches have been beat up with this very line of thinking. I’ts called being hyper responsible. It keeps the light off of the abusers. Have a little mercy!
August 9th, 2007 at 10:05 am
Thank you Rhema…Yes Just Thinking/Living Life your point is crystal clear…
August 9th, 2007 at 11:12 am
Just Thinking & living life are not the same person.
I don’t feel that the tenor of my post was in the same vein as that of living life. I was attempting to convey that I believe that compassion and mercy should be extended to those who were/are put in positions where they felt they had no choice or could choose nothing else. Actually I think that compassion and mercy should be extended to all people no matter what, but that is another issue.
I am sorry if I was not clear before–I was bothered by living life posting CHOICES over and over again…I felt that once was enough.
August 9th, 2007 at 2:47 pm
Thanks for the correction Just T. Dittos to “once was enough”
August 12th, 2007 at 7:19 pm
Yeah!