There is a great article in The Daily World today discussing Doug Cotton's return to the Harbor.
From the paper:
Doug Cotton, the former pastor of Christian Life Fellowship in Central Park, will help launch a Harbor branch of a huge Kirkland-based church next month.
It will be called Harbor City Church, with the first services scheduled for Sept. 30.
Using financial resources from The City Church, which has a regular weekly attendance of 7,000, according to Anderson, Cotton has leased the former Alexander Young Elementary School at the foot of Scammel Hill.
The Aberdeen School District is charging the church $3,000 a month, according to Tom Laufmann, finance director for the district. It’s an 11-month lease that starts in September and ends on July 31, 2008. The church will have an option to renew and it will pay all utilities.
I encourage you to read the whole article, it confirms a lot of what has been said in the comments of this blog.
I would also like to thank all our readers, because you were partly responsible for tipping off the reporter to Doug Cottons' return.
From the article:
The Daily World learned about Cotton’s affiliation with the new church through calls from readers and a blog entry at www.citybusinesschurch.org.
We also received an email from the reporter thanking us for the blog entry that led him to write this follow up story.
Well done, readers, well done.
It’s time to update the scoreboard:
CBC/MFI/TCC – 107 : The Mortons – 3
Keep your rally hats on…we’re gonna pull this one out…just give us another 10-15 years.
That reporter needs to ask Pastor Wendell Smith if he did indeed cut off access to The City Church’s food supplies in retaliation for CLF asking for Doug Cotton’s resignation.
CLF’s “The Lord’s Pantry” food bank used to be allowed access to the food at The City Church. That access was denied after Doug Cotton left CLF.
That action has led directly to people in the Grays Harbor area going hungry.
Guess it is nice they take care of their own..
And he has no plans to take people from his former church into his new church.. ummmmmmmm…… what planet does he live on???
Does this mean you all might need to get an attorney on board to be the spokesman?
Horrible. Thanks for the article, I had to steal it for my blog too…
Thanks for keeping us informed.
According to that article, about 100 people asked Doug Cotton to return to Grays Harbor.
The lease payment is $3,000 per month, and the new church has to pay for all utilities also. That will be a minimum of another $500 per month, and you need to add any staff salary and other overhead on top of that.
Figure at least $3,500 per month for staff, even with staff subsidies from “The Mother Church”.
So $7,000 per month minimum divided by MAYBE 100 parishioners, including children.
Whoops, don’t forget that poverty is a real problem in Grays Harbor.
No WONDER that lease is only for 11 months.
Even though the food bank got cut off, which I don’t think was quite “Godly” of Wendel, God still opened doors for the Lord’s Pantry. They are thriving with food, and are feeding the hungry as much or more then they used to. He still should not have cut them off though. It makes me sick.
When one door closes, many more open.
I think it’s is going to do more harm then good with starting this whole Harbor City Church thing. In the article it says they have no intention of taking people from CLF, but seriously… what do you think is going to happen? It’s unnerving.
You put your money where your heart is, and it’s sad when it’s with one man rather then a community.
I close with this,
——————————————————————————
Harbor City Church: Making one man a monster.
——————————————————————————
Over and out.
Chump change, RH. A pasture of Cotton’s years probably is accustomed to making $75K-$100K per year. Decent secretaries salary should be in the $20K-$30K range. I can’t picture CC subsidizing that for long.
The letters to the editor section of the paper ought to be a hot bed of blog fodder for awhile.
Bull.
Spin City
[Comment ID #27947 Will Be Quoted Here]
“A pasture of Cotton’s years”
And what does one usually find in pastures?
That’s right!
SUPERBAD IS THE BEST MOVIE EVER
Didn’t see it. Sorry.
Just trying a little humor in this situation.
Seriously, it seems like all roads lead back to Bible Temple, don’t they?
ACC, CLF, CC, etc. all seem to have branched out from Portland.
Is there some sort of controlling and condemning spririt in that city’s past? How can so much hurt and damage in the church have spread from one city?
And then they just cover things up.
Why are the people of that have removed these pastors dealing with it out in the open?
Read that article in their paper again — t looks like a cover up.
An attorney from one church says everything is OK, and nobody from the church that removed the pastor is willing to talk.
What gives with that?
Sounds like a buch of junior high boys clamming up when Mom asks what they’ve been up to and why the house has been trashed while she was out running errands………………………
WiT
Because they are trying to be the bigger person in this whole situation. Time for them to move on and shake the dust off their feet.
FYI: spws started the whole “city” name for church, bob macgregor followed, yankie frankie followed the cult name…
LLife –who are what is spws? Many of us are from the Boise area -having been in the cult for years and are trying to fill in the blocks of history we missed in order to gain understanding.
When you name churches that come out of here don’t forget -Church of the Harvest and Capital Christian Center –most certainly from the same
pattern and makeup and now apparantly the same type of FRUIT.
Just to inform you all–its bigger than you think
SPWS = Senior Pastor Wendell Smith. He’s Ken Wilde’s cousin. So yes, we are aware of how big “it” is.
and Jerry McKinney’s brother-in-law — http://www.thecitysd.org/home.htm
and Benny Perez’s father-in-law — http://www.thechurchlv.com/ .. . but Benny used to be Assembly of God (quite sure) and don’t know if he still is.
It was SCARY to read jerry’s web page… “come see yacki jackie for a prophetic weekend”
I understand the reluctance to talk about the situation.
But some churches have set a good model, I think, by talking openly about the failure of leadership and openly removing the leadership from their positions.
The guy who headed the National Evangelical Association was removed from his church, and it was in the media what he had done. It was handled tactfully without going into the sordid details.
There was no cover up. There was no risk of another church taking on this man without knowing his history.
He was dealt with publicly as the Bible instructs, so that other leaders would see and be afraid.
Unfortunately, in all these MFI-related situations, it seems that things are not dealt with publicly, so there is an expectation that MFI will protect its own, provide sanctuary from accountability, and send the guys back out to some unsuspecting church.
In the case of what’s going on up in Washington State, it seems more blatant — the big church is not just sending the man back out after a time of “recovery”.
They are sending him to their own new church and almost immediately. The article says that was their plan from the beginning.
Seems they have some experience with this and have it down to an art.
Perhaps MFI has some secret play book where they fill in the blanks on the name of the removed pastor and they set the thing on auto-pilot.
No public accountability; therefore, no fear of the consequences of misleading, abusing, harming God’s people.
There is a reason it keeps happening with the MFI-affiliated groups.
The church that ousted the pastor is playing right into it by keeping silent, and they don’t appear to be handling it publicly as is called for in scripture.
Just my observation and opinion.
At least the folks in Washington are not unique in adding to these problems.
When will we (the church) ever learn?
Word
The threat of a lawsuit could tend to dampen comment, don’t you think?
Life is full of risks of a lawsuit.
We could be sued for actions with our car, our words, our actions of any kind.
We could offend someone (discrimination?) by sharing the Gospel.
We do it anyway.
Why not deal with abusive leaders publicly as scripture directs?
Because we might get sued?
Perhaps we should perform same-sex marriages in the church so we don’t get sued?
(sorry, slight diversion with analogy there)
We keep silent and do not warn others because we are afraid of a lawsuit. Then it happens again (as we have seen so many times).
Where is the real liability? Is it with the person who allowed abuse to recur because he/she did not pull back the curtain to let others see and fear?
Seems to me that therein lies the greater liability than speaking the truth…………..
Are you one of the leaders of that church that refuses to speak out? How can you justify your silence when people are at risk?
Word -
I think you are 100% correct to ask what it is about Bible Temple that is causing all this bad fruit to grow. The “Vein over the Wall” is connected to it’s original roots.
Having spent many years there in the 70′s and 80′s as a ‘phudeo-leader” in outreach treated as secondary to the church’s purpose, I would contend that the fruit of control and money campaigns was alive and thriving at that time. I have many specific examples, but one that comes to mind here is when singles leadership was passed from Ken Malmin to Wendle Smith, the collection of money, in a sunday morning parade style, began as a regular part of the Saturday evening events. Despite my strong desire to keep the “good child” image, it bothered me so much that I mustered the courage to talk with Wendel about all the negatives I saw in it. My sincere concern, of course, had no influence.
My belief is that this type of church draws in people who grew up in controlling, dysfunctional families so that a person will feel quite comfortable transferring that same family dynamic to a church setting where one is not encouraged or allowed to express their true self. Individual thought and expression is seen as subversive and one is tagged “the black sheep”. A word against a “parent” is disloyal, deserving of punishment. Separation feels like death. It is often stated that leaving the ‘church covering” opens one to “satan’s attacks”.
The church teaches people to be afraid of God, if you do anything wrong in church and be afraid of “the world” aka “satan” if you leave. Fear is in control.
Want more demonstrations… I have plenty. Bro Dick Iverson said in a sermon, that when his wife gave birth to twins, one died because he did not call the church to request prayer… guilt and fear… the vein contues to grow over the wall.
Right on no umbrella! I couldn’t agree more. I’ve been saying for years that these types of churches have the same dynamics as a dysfunctional family. I believe many of the leaders in these churches have never addressed their own childhood issues. Instead of having lawyers on staff they ought to all have licensed psychologists.
And…. people who see out the help of a psychologist are under classification of black sheep.
I just wanted to clarify that this question was mean for Reforming Heathen and living life since they were attempting to rationalize that it was OK to continue living in denial (my words) by continue to gloss over the situation up there with the ousted pastor now returning with a new church.
Word
[Comment ID #27966 Will Be Quoted Here]
Save your indignation for someone else.
It’s very easy for you to throw stones, isn’t it?
Don’t sweat it, Word, Whenever Heathen doesn’t have an answer, he attacks….I thought you were right on the money, with a valid question. Maybe one of the ‘leaders’ will answer…:o)
I can’t picture Jesus sweating about what ‘sounds right’ or what will ‘offend the least’ when He addressed a crowd, He just spoke the plain truth and let the chips fall where they may. I just can’t see Jesus being too concerned about ‘PR’….
Not indignation, at all.
Just asking if you are one of the leaders who is not speaking about what happened there because of fear of lawsuit, people taking sides, etc.
Wouldn’t you agree that the silence on these pastoral abuses just continues the cycle?
It worked real well for the Catholic church, didn’t it?
The result of their silence and “being the bigger prson” was more and more abuse and settlements of millions and millions of dollars.
Can we do better?
I would like to know your role in that situation up there, that’s all.
Thanks,
Word
city church is paying the rent for 1 year, 3000 dollars and any other help, as needed.
[Comment ID #27976 Will Be Quoted Here]
Just because none of the elders wanted to make a public statement to the newspaper does not mean that they did not or will not openly address the problem. I suspect that if someone who is not a reporter wanted a comment for reasons other than gossip it would be easy to get. Not handling it in the press is probably wise.
Reforming heathen said: save your indignation for someone else.
It’s very easy for you to throw stones, isn’t it?
( Be careful Word! It sounds to me like you’re asking too many questions! We all know what happens when we do that!)
Did anyone else catch that at the McKinney’s church, not only do they have an internship program—when you finish it, you get to buy the title of pastor with a year’s salary and free labor! Check it out.
Ok, I tried to link both times to no avail. Here’s the address:
http://www.thecitysd.org/campuspastors.htm
Here is an email that a member of Christian Life Fellowship recently sent and asked that I post:
This was viewable for a number of days and then at the recommendation of an attorney … the documents were put away from public view.
…documents were put away from public view.
I just wanted to repeat that and break it down.
According to a member (perhaps one of the elders) of CLF, they decided to “put (it) away from public view.”
So, only some of the people at their church knew what was going on and why their pastor was removed.
The people at the new church he is pastoring will not know.
Isn’t this exactly what some of us have been illustrating here?
Sitting on the information and “putting it away from public view” feeds the cycle of abuse.
Whether it is sexual, financial, or psychological — offenders will re-offend if not given treatment and dis-incentive.
For all who are trying to justify the slip-cover (words chosen intentionally) for these situations, perhaps you should go the next step and defend the privacy of sexual offenders.
The public is protected by people knowing that certain people pose a risk. See this link http://www.georgia-sex-offenders.com/modules.php?city=&county=&name=Search&offender=&op=SearchResults&submit=Search&zip=30313 for an example.
1 Timothy 5:20 (21st Century King James Version)
21st Century King James Version (KJ21)
Copyright © 1994 by Deuel Enterprises, Inc.
20 Those who sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.
To put it more in context, 1 Timothy 5:20 was dealing with elders or leaders of the church. Here is a bit more.
19Against an elder receive not an accusation, except before two or three witnesses.
20Those who sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.
Sounds like CLF did the first part (v 19) but not the second part (v 20).
Keeping it in the family is not “all.” That’s why these things keep repeating themselves.
We are are well-intentioned, I think, to want to be gentle with someone who has served as a pastor, elder, etc.
But scripture is scripture and God is God. Our good intentions should not trump His Word, even if we do not feel like doing it His way.
He must weep when he sees how we have made things so much worse.
I remember as a child playing with my grandfather’s hatchet. I cut myself badly. Instead of going to him or my parents, I covered it up. That is, until the would got infected and I had no choice but to deal with it properly.
My parents knew better how to handle the wound than did I.
My shame and cover up made things worse for me.
Word
Sorry. that’s WOUND. The WOUND got infected.
I’ll stop posting and get to the kitchen and laundry now.
[Comment ID #27988 Will Be Quoted Here]
It looks like there may be disagreement over what the word “all” means.
I would argue in the context of the entire chapter of 1 Timothy 5, the word all refers to “all the church” not literally every person on earth. The entire chapter is a list of instructions on how the church should treat each other, including the elders.
The idea that the word “all” requires the list of sins to be described in a press release and posted indefinitely on the internet seems a bit of a stretch.
Cotton’s attorney says he certainly hopes this new church wont siphon off members from clf. “you never start a church with the goal of taking away another curches members.”
Who are these over 100 people asking the cottons to start a new church
Are they still at clf? did they leave with cotton? Or where are they?
Does the attorney think there are 100 non church goers who just happened to sign a letter wanting cotton to start a new church just for them?
d
[Comment ID #27961 Will Be Quoted Here]
Thank you, that’s why I was wanting to participate on this blog. Because, it is bigger than they think.. most on here seem to be worried about someone getting there hands on their money. Bigger than you think means= The spiritual devastation in all the churches sent out and supported by, Controlled by, associated with The Bible Temple aka City Church’s! They are corrupt and everyone should be warned. If it takes reading it in the paper because the churches are afraid to speak out…so be it!
Stay clear of any outfit that has anything to do with them…
Thank you Lord. I escaped out from under the umbrella myself.
I’ll admit the first few years I thought I was at great spiritual risk.
and afraid to turn to the only one who could help me….No not the church…! My heavenly father who was waiting for me with open arms and I have been sitting on his lap ever since. Don’t get me wrong I love the church. But I trust only God and him alone. He is faithful and true, he will never leave or forsake me. The church on the other hand that’s the big question?
Its taken years to replace an unhealthy (fear) of the Lord with, a true love relationship one that a child would have with a loving father. Man can’t give you the relationship your looking for with the Lord. If your looking for answers anywhere apart from the Father, Son or Holly spirit and the word. your going to miss the mark. If you seek me you will find me are his words. Man will always fail you. we can’t help it we have fallen from grace. we are all sinners, that’s why we need him. Every hour of every day. The truth will set us free….keep exposing it without the truth we are all captive. study his word the answers are all there. Justified by the blood of Jesus.
I want those of you in Idaho and anywhere else that are hurt to know. I have been where you are. My heart aches for you. I am praying for you. Your heavenly Father loves you. Your hope is in him. He is the Lover of your sole. He hasn’t gone anywhere, he took up residence in your heart the day you asked him in, He stayed for eternity.
Fox
just curious brings up a good point. If cottons lawyer doesn’t want to siphon off members from other churches then WHERE are these hundred people coming from? Are they on loan from city church?
Probably unsuspecting baby Christians, looking for shelter and a loving place to be taught a good foundation. La De Da and off it goes again. Oh and don’t forget that, monetary gain is hard to come by on the harbor. So I’m sure most will want to pay into a fund that has a return of 100 fold and more. With a pyramid scheme or each one reach one they only need 50 suckers to start with. Game on they are up and running. Besides they have 11 months to pull it off. [Comment ID #27999 Will Be Quoted Here] Any good sales person could do it.
[Comment ID #27963 Will Be Quoted Here]
Benny Perez has a church in Las Vegas now. I visited a little less than a year ago and he talked a lot about money (basic prosperity doctrine w/ personal examples of the things that he owns, his home, etc), and I remembered one of the last times that I was at a CBC service (during a conference I think), how he prayed before the offering and it was like a 12-15 minute sermon on moneymoneymoney. It was really sad because I remember Benny not being like this when I was still in high school. He was so great back then.
Another thing that weirded me out was how he pretty much said that he knew that the end of the world/Jesus’ return was going to happen in the next 10-15 years. I mean, he talked as if it was fact. It was so weird. I had never heard any pastor say anything like that before. He was still very funny–just a little preoccupied with money & WWIII.
[Comment ID #27976 Will Be Quoted Here]
Personally I would be in favor of having the allegations against Doug Cotton printed on the front page of the local newspaper.
Those allegations include making inappropriate, sexually oriented comments to a female on the church’s staff, and verbally abusing other people on staff and even an allegation of a physical assault on a staff member.
And anyone who read the signed statements in the dozens of pages of allegations knows that.
As far as the 100 people who are alleged to have sent a letter to Doug Cotton asking that he start a church, those people would most likely be disgruntled members or former members of CLF, so the statement from City Church’s attorney seems ludicrous on it’s face, wouldn’t you agree?
Fox Hole Christian –
I too felt the fear after leaving and before. I also say THANK YOU JESUS!
And, I totally agree… it is MUCH bigger than we think. It’s been going on much longer than we think, and in many different types and shapes of churche.
Just Thinking -
If that was the first time you heard that “Jesus could come back any day” you haven’t been around much…
[Comment ID #27997 Will Be Quoted Here]
I have heard there are people who left CLF and are waiting it out in other churches for this new work to begin. Yes there were those who left from what I have been told who disagree with how the eldership handled the DC thing. This is a division, a split it is not a nice new plant!!
[Comment ID #28002 Will Be Quoted Here]
Yep
And probably some from the City Church in kirkland, they ususally send out others with them. It erks me to no end that we have yet another church started on the Harbor, because the leadership can’t deal with their problems. And yes, it is about money and power period.
I have a question, does anyone on this blog know why CLF took these offenses and made it public in the paper, I mean factually? I’m not saying it was right or wrong I’m just wanting to know some facts.
Maybe this is a little stupid of me to say but we are the “church” and we are supposed to be salt and light. How are we to show others a better way when church leadership can’t even deal with something as simple as anger and or greed. I mean the world calls it what it is. Why can’t we? We have a responsibility to judge what is righteous and true and especially the “CRAPOLA” that goes on in the church.
It is sad to see it had to be exposed to the world, but it was and now we need to deal with it at the level it is at.
Any direction “Truth vs. Loyalty” I think you and the “Dog with the bone” can give us a little insight here. I mean at least in theory. I would love to see your comments here.
I know there are several members of CLF temporarily attending “The River” in South Aberdeen just waiting for Doug Cotton to start a new church. I heard there are others meeting in homes and other churches around town too. CLF knows how many people left in support of Doug Cotton. I heard they were struggling financially because so many people are gone.
Remember when Doug Cotton told the elders at CLF he would go to Meier Clinic for treatment if he could remain as Senior Pastor? Well now that City Church has made him Senior Pastor again does he intend to go? I suppose he went to City Churches version of treatment: The old MFI slap on the wrist!
It’s funny how both sides are now saying they just want to move on and put all this behind them. I can understand that. But what about our responsibility to the whole body of Christ to make sure this same thing doesn’t happen to more of our brothers and sisters in Christ? If this was something that happened in CLF and stayed in CLF I could see where it would be none of our business. But just like Gail Bryan and Rod Hill, Doug cotton is removed and then put back into leadership again. This time in the same town! What can we do as the body of Christ to stop these people from “reoffending?” What can we do to try to get them to seek treatment?
1 Timothy 5:19-20 (Young’s Literal Translation)
Young’s Literal Translation (YLT)
Public Domain
19Against an elder an accusation receive not, except upon two or three witnesses.
20Those sinning, reprove before all, that the others also may have fear;
1 Timothy 5:19-20 (New International Version – UK)
New International Version – UK (NIVUK)
Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society
19 Do not entertain an accusation against an elder unless it is brought by two or three witnesses.
20 Those who sin are to be rebuked publicly, so that the others may take warning.
The following is from Truth and Consequences: Exposing Sin in the Church
By Bob and Gretchen Passantino
Copyright 1994 by Bob and Gretchen Passantino.
“Christians sometimes are uncomfortable with criticism within the Church because they wrongly assume that public criticism, because it is painful, is also destructive. On the contrary, the “pain” of biblically conducted confrontation produces individual growth (1 Timothy 4:16), encourages others to Christian maturity (1 Timothy 5:19-20), promotes Church strength (Ephesians 4:15), and preserves the Church’s reputation in the world (1 Peter 2:12).”
Word
I thought that Doug Cotton was publicly criticized. So were Rod Hill and Gail Bryan. The real problem here is that the church is so far behind in regards to abuse of any kind and they choose to stay in their ignorance. We all know that when we are physically sick we can pray for healing but there are times when we should see a doctor or go to the hospital. Our church leaders would problably encourage us to do so. But as far as domestic violence, sexual predators, and spiritual abuse goes we are discouraged not to seek outside help! The problem at CLF is that at one point Doug Cotton was ready and willing to admit that he had a problem and get treatment. After MFI stepped in they weren’t to sure if it was abuse or just “offenses.” People become divided because of the churches ignorance. The world knows what this stuff is. MFI did not see Gail Bryan as a sexual predator . They saw him as a normal guy that fell into sin. Hence the hand slap and back into leadership again. The same thing is going on with the Rod Hill situation. His faithful wife stands by him and people in this community and in the church he left are divided. Some think he just fell into sin because he was seduced. Others that have an understanding of abuse of power see it for what it is. I went to Doug Cotton one sunday after my husband had come home drunk on friday night. He proceeded to flip me over in my chair, break a lamp right by my head, follow me into the kitchen and in front of the children knock over the kitchen table and smash out the sliding glass door with a chair! My oldest son finally ran upstairs and got a gun and threatened to kill him while I ran to the neighbors to call the police. After relating all of this to Doug he suggested that my husband and I take a personality test that he and Lois had taken and gotten a lot out of! He didn’t have a clue what to do about this! Needless to say I went to someone outside the church who did. Someone trained in domestic violence and with a degree in phychology! Until the church gets educated and begans to teach the people in them about it things are going to continue the way they are. My ex-husband still believes O. J. Simpson is innocent. Sounds a lot like the church to me!
“Truth and Consequences: Exposing Sin in the Church”, great instruction. I think one thing that we need to be aware of is the oppostion that you meet when these things are exposed. It can take a great toll on you, your familyand community. What I mean by great toll is the spiritual battle that takes place, it can get really crazy. People do take sides and our falleness is exposed.
Even though I don’t go to CLF nor did I attend Rhema I do know many people who do or did attend these fellowships and have active friendships with these people. I have attended two MFI churches, my sons attended PBC one for three the other for one. We attended many BT functions including many of the “generation unleashed” conferences. My husband was a very close friends with BM/SM. I do not consider myself an outsider in these situations.
However we stopped attending these types of fellowships four years ago because we saw the form was wrong. Nothing seemed to work, and little of the word of God could be actually applied and practiced. Especially in the area of church discipline. I also realize these dysfunctionalities can take place in smaller fellowships if allowed.
For example we tried to work out a simple problem concerning the “senior pastor’s” daughter. We truly meant to help in a situation that we became aware of through someone who was close to the family. They informed us of a dangerous situation concerning their daughter then told us not to tell the Father (senior pastor), because he would get mad.
Ironically he actually did. That was just the beginning of six years of hell in that church. We ended up being the bad guys for telling the Father of the situation with his daughter. I was shunned for two weeks by the person who told me of this situation, not because of that particular situation but because of another situation, that again I didn’t have anything to do with. This was leadership. It went on and on and on. I thought I was loosing my mind.
I will ask my question again, does anyone on this blog know why CLF put the information about the DC problem in the paper? Does a member of CLF acutally work for the Aberdeen World? Why was this done?
Did they take it to “the world” because he wasn’t doing what he was supposed to do, was that their reasoning?
To be honest I would love to be gathering with more people than I gather with right now however in my conscience I cannot attend nor be involved in something I cannot practice. I will not be involved with a group of people who say one thing and do another. It twists me up internally. However where does that leave me. I am without my many other brothers and sisters giftings, that is not right. But I refuse to be under wrong teaching, ungodly leadership and being treated as if I am a dumb sheep who can never attain.
I would love to bring some order and peace on the Harbor. I feel at this time this is the only means I have to express my concern and voice my opinion on these situations and possibly bring some change.
EXACTLY!
And when MFI told Doug Cotton that maybe these were not terminable (Or even possibly CRIMINAL) offenses, Doug Cotton chose to not obtain the counseling that he NEEDS!
anna litical said exactly what i have been feeling. There are not many high paying jobs in the church is it possible mfi has become an instument for pastors to keep their jobs even if God wants them out? Have Mfi churches become a cross between laodicea and sardis in rev 3-1thru 6and rev3 14 thru22?
[Comment ID #28035 Will Be Quoted Here]
So are you thinking MFI just stepped in or do you think Doug went to MFI and complained and they stepped in. I’m thinking Doug saw he was loosing control and went to MFI and then they stepped in. I think he saw they weren’t going to be reinstating him anytime soon (even if he did jump the hoops) and he started back peddling. I could be wrong but this is human nature, I’ve seen it happen before.
I think he thought he was just going to go through their hoops and he was going to be able to be reinstated. I don’t think the eldership saw it that way.
I’m wondering if he was truly repentant? In all reality I don’t think he was, why would he be starting this new church if he thought he really had an anger problem to work on.
Anna,
As reporters we hear things. It’s part of our job to keep an ear to the ground on what people are talking about. And this was something people were talking about. There were dozens of blog responses around a month ago when something. was posted. And now there are lots of people talking about this issue now. Believe it or not, we do surf the ‘Net and do some research on what folks are talking about before writing anything.
As for your question, I don’t believe anyone publicly came to us. I believe we went to them. Feel free to e-mail me at sfriederich@thedailyworld.com if you or anyone else wants to ask me any questions directly.
Steven
Doug Cotton went to Bible Temple with Wendel Smith and they are friends.
I doubt it. It feels more like a controlling personality type who suddenly feels like they are losing control, and will do and say anything to retain that control.
One thing I know of for SURE, once MFI got involved, any discussion of Doug Cotton receiving counseling was dead.
I believe that Pride goes before a fall, and I believe that there may be another fall coming, if Doug Cotton has not truly repented and changed his ways.
If there is a repeat of the alleged behavior, the connsequences could be far greater for Doug Cotton than simply a dismissal from his employment.
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For some 30 years, from what I have heard.
something i found out today i did not know. Gail Bryan was sent out to port orchard wash by BT and his reign of terror was finally stopped there.
This scripture has been going through my head since this whole DC came out in the open. I Timothy 3:2, an overseer must be temperate, prudent, respectable, vs. 3 free from the love of money. Titus 1:7 for the overseer must not be quick-tempered, not fond of sordid gain.
We have a tendency to focus on sexual sins of a leader and rightly so. However we also need to hold them accountable for the above scriptures. It almost seems like leaders are never held accountable for the above. Like they never have problems in these areas.
I am thinking of a leader (I don’t even like to refer to him as a pastor), but it seemed like all he needed to be accountable for was being pure sexually and none of the above. After all “he had feet of clay” just like the rest of us. But we were to honor the authority!! Remember to honor the authority. I felt like I was attending a Catholic church. He would refer to mediated grace, like he was the mediator and not Christ.
CLF did gain financially from selling a chruch in Elma under the protest of many of the memebers of that house. People who built the chruch for the work of God. Would that not be sordid gain. Records of that church were not kept. The church at one point had a chruch school in which people graduated from. Do you know those records were lost or destroyed. We knew of a former graduate who needed their diploma, in talking to DC he was defensive with me when I personally asked about getting a copy of the diploma. He made up all kinds of excuses for not having those records.
My impression of the man was one who was lofty, yuck!! Like he couldn’t be bothered, very dishonoring. It caused offenses in East County (and oh yeah we need to get over our offenses), we don’t believe in restitution do we. Believe me just because CLF has one of the largest churches on the Harbor doesn’t mean anything to me. I hope when they admire their building they realize some of that came from sordid gain.
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Yes I was also told this.
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Thanks for responding Steve.
Anna Litical said;
To be honest I would love to be gathering with more people than I gather with right now however in my conscience I cannot attend nor be involved in something I cannot practice. I will not be involved with a group of people who say one thing and do another. It twists me up internally. However where does that leave me. I am without my many other brothers and sisters giftings, that is not right. But I refuse to be under wrong teaching, ungodly leadership and being treated as if I am a dumb sheep who can never attain.]
My 7 year old grand daughter just asked me today to take her to church.
When her mother, (my daughter) came home she asked me the same thing. I have 4 daughters and 6 grandchildren they all would like to attend a church and give their families a good foundation.
I looked the phone book over, and honest to God I’m at a loss, I don’t know where a safe place is to take my family.
Any suggestions? we are in southwest Washington.
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Like Longview, Kelso, Oregon border?
annalitical: weren’t some of the members of the little church in elma talked into coming down to clf temporarily until they could help them get the church up and running again only to find out that Doug Cotton and Paul Ridell made a deal to sell it?
For those of us not familiar with all of your locals, could you explain some of the code?
I am assuming that BM is not Barry Manilow. I don’t even have a guess on SM.
When Gail bryan was caught in his sin and ousted as pastor of Rhema
Fellowship, Devin backholm and Doug Cotton split the church and took part of it to Montesano, 10 miles away. Maybe they didn’t split it but they went with the people who split and Devin was the pastor and Doug was his helper. They met in various churches, schools, buildings for several
years.
Then the pastor who took over Rhema fellowship was ready to retire for some reason, so the two groups got back together again! AND STARTED CLF, with Devin as pastor. So this is not the first split Doug Cotton has been involved in.
Did they get back together because Rhema fellowship owned a building in Hoquiam and property in Central Park
I wonder when and why did Cotton take over as senior pastor? With
Backholm as elder? (they are married to sisters, by the way)
So after 15 years of being “king of the mountain”, did you expect Cotton to go back selling carpet when CLF pulled the rug out from under him? Wendell Smith’s offer of a new church and financial backing must have sounded like manna from heaven!
Just curious
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I’m not sure about that one. I do know DC told me personally, they couldn’t afford to keep paying out money on the building and said it was costing CLF quite a bit. Why PR signed the church over to CLF I don’t know. Looks like he left himself as the only one at the helm. I know the incorporation papers and the bylaws did not read that the church was to be given to CLF when we left. Nor should it have been left in one persons power to give a building to another church. That sucked.
I think MFI just thought the church was a big problem and needed to be closed.
I know PR floated around trying to find “oversight”, from MFI church to MFI church. He didn’t like Dave Minor, and didn’t fit with a MFI pastor in Shelton nor CLC in Lacey, for some reason he ended up hooking up with DC.
I know they did end up going down there to CLF. The people who were left probably bought in to all the show and glow after being in battle for so many years and just gave up.
Maybe you know more.
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Bob McGregor/Sue McGregor
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Yes they did meet in Montesano and Devin was pastor. Doug I think had more chrisma. But I really don’t know all the facts to that one.
I’m just waiting for the reconciliation meeting between CLF and the new city church where they all group hug, pretend everything is wonderful on the surface and never deal with their stuff.
[Comment ID #28081 Will Be Quoted Here]
You may be waiting for quite a while for that one.
RE-WRITE YOUR CHURCH CONSTITUION AND BY-LAWS!
There’s lots of concern about what the people of this congregation or others can do to prevent ongoing abuse and not have their legitimate concerns quashed by an outside organization that only gets the pastor’s point of view -like maybe the MFI.
One of the critical keys to protect the people is to RE-WRITE THE CHURCH CONSTITUION AND BY-LAWS! This will be tricky with MFI churches because, at last reading, they do not allow any pastor to join their fellowship who does believe in senior pastor “rule.”This probably means, although not necessarily, that the church constitution in pastor-king churches is stacked in favor of the senior pastor. It certainly is at City Bible Church!
Such re-writing should be a section on checks and balances of power, the limitations of the senior pastor’s authority, and what will be done to remove him and upon what basis. This must be specific. I have just recently been involved in helping an MFI church reign in their senior pastor through just this method. I remember what Tom Cruise said in the movie The Firm about how corrupt power hides behind their lawyers.
I recommend that ICF and any other local church that does not have constraints on the powers of the senior pastor to read their present church constitution and find out what it would take to re-write or amend it to put more checks and balances into it to protect God’s people from ongoing abuse from those in powerful positions.
annalitical: speaking of group hugs remember when Doug Cotton headed up the meeting between Rod Hell and Larry Draw-a-blank-o? We all had to go watch the performance and then act like everything was all better now?lol what a joke! Ha Ha Ha.
So it IS possible that the checks and balances system can be done in an MFI church. I suppose it depends if the pastor is secure enough to allow someone ‘under’ him to help him adhere to the checks and balances. Sounds like the DC rulership didn’t allow for that.
btw, most of the blogging seems to be about churches like this that try to keep the people intimidated and quiet (reminds me of barefoot and pregnant for some reason)– you don’t hear much about some of the others such as the B MacGregor types because they are all around nice guys, most likely have a genuine love of their congregations and probably have those important checks and balances in place. How nice for those people — they don’t have years of messed up thinking to deal with.
One of my favorite movies of all time!
Certainly not their own sisters, I hope!
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Yeah that’s the one I was thinking of!! Good grief give me a break.
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I made a few calls and have some more facts on the Elma chruch. Apparently this Paul Ridel (from BT) refused to follow the by-laws set up that were in place when he arrived. He did not respect other peoples spheres of domaine (ministries). In eldership meetings he refused to take minutes. He acted in a tyranical fashion.
Apparently there were two areas that were important to the people before he was to become the pastor of the church, 1. That he have a heart for the people 2. He would be there long term. After this was communicated to him he went to Frank Damizo and Damizo told him he could not promise to be there long term. Consequently Paul lied to become pastor and later confessed that he had no intention of staying long term and his intention was to move on to a larger church.
Later in the progression of events (after he became pastor) Paul was looking around for people who were successful in their ministries with like mindedness. He hooked up with a pastor from Shelton and Doug Cotton.
As things started to deteriorate at the Elma chruch, Doug, this MFI Shelton pastor and Paul approached the congregation and told the people they wanted to close the church down. The people were told that those closest Shelton church would go to Shelton, and those closest to CLF would go to CLF. Conditionally they said they would re-establish the chruch with those of the CLF church who lived East of the Wynochee.
Another part of the deal was that this Paul Riedel would go on staff at CLF.
Later when the origianl promise to re-open the church couldn’t be kept Paul said he would sell the church and split the money between himself and the five remaining families at CLF. Later Doug put the church up for sale.
The Chruch of God in Elma, with a founding member (one who had donated money originally to help buy the land for the at Elma ) approached Doug Cotton and asked to purchase the church. Doug refused, said it wasn’t enough money, and sold it for a much higher price.
That’s it in a nut shell, how do you like that for sordid gain!
“… Scripture and the legal constitution has been violated” in no stretch of anybody’s imagination threatens legal suit or even remotely implies legal action. He simply is telling him the man’s rights have been overstepped. For goodness’ sake, if it had been YOUR rights, or if the offending preacher had been defending free sex (I see you’re for handing out condoms in Bible college) and homosexuality. you’d be heralding the man all over the Internet instead of claiming that he’d come to your house and served you with a subpoena. You know this. The real question, then: What has so hardened your heart that you are willing to lie this egregiously, and against men of G-d?
I’m wondering if you have yourself followed scriptural procedure for dealing with offense against a brother. Have you gone to him personally, tried to appeal to him—with respect and the love of G-d, taken two elders with you? Are his offenses correctible, ‘sins unto death,’ or sins that disqualified him from ever having served PRIOR to being instated? How does bad-mouthing and backbiting (in such an extensive and deliberate manner) all over the Web figure into Scriptural protocol?
On other pages, I see that you have used personal names in many instances for reckless sport and slander. Did the Loumans, Lasits, or others all sue you too, or even threaten you?
I do not know of the specifics here, barely know even a few of these people, am not on their side, or have any particular warmth toward them. I just wonder why you yourself seem so intently bent on systematically spending so much of your time ranting against ministers and churches on the internet. If you wish others to share your anger, you are in the very dangerous position (to you AND to the church) of knowingly ‘spreading discord among the brethren.’ If you’re looking for sympathy, you’ll get much farther with forgiveness, reconciliation, and deliverance, steeping yourself in the Word of G-d, fellowship– maybe even fasting and prayer.
I sincerely hope that there is yet some remnant of respect at least for G-d, His authority and that which He has put over you (it’s all from Him, you know, for one purpose or another—see Rom. 13) despite your perverse language and poisoned tongue. It is so unwise, so unworthy and so unattractive (not to mention so severely warned against in so many books of the Bible) for Christians to become mockers.
I will dare to say that my horror stories with abuse, racism, and even sabotage– yes, of church leadership!– probably minimize yours. I have learned from experience and some very good examples of true Christians that the L-rd Himself is a far better defender of us than we can ever be.
Be rebuked and repent, I beg of you (no need to tell ME anything though, of course). Proving you can be stiffnecked will get you nothing but more mental anguish—besides that which may last an eternity… definitely not worth it. Humility: it’s the hard choice, maybe not the choice you’ve ever even challenged yourself to make before—but you can do it.
Remi You call Doug cotton a man of god.It sounds quite the opposite.It sounds like a tyrrant that God tried to remove but mfi stepped in. Remi is this you eunice? i haven’t heard anyone defend an abuser like this since Gail was alive.I can picture you defending Jim jones right before jonestown. And after Jonestown. you are like a wife that is beaten for years (but i love him he is my man .what will we do without him? ) kick his butt out and get someone nice. It sounds like family members tried(clf elders) but were attacked by some of the abused. Try honoring the wishes of a church trying to correct a bad situation (biblically) oh holier than thou one.
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lol Yes Yes. My thoughts entirely
remi said: I will dare to say that my horror stories with abuse, racism, and even sabotage- yes, of church leadership!- probably minimize yours. I’m sorry remi, I’m just not feelin the love, compassion, and understanding from one that has supposedly walked in a lot of our shoes. EMPATHY: MY PAIN IN YOUR HEART
anna litical said:That’s it in a nut shell, how do you like that for sordid gain!
Wow! So Doug Cotton took the money from that little church and put it all into clf? How could he legally do that? What happened to all of the people? Why did Cotton and Ridel think they had the sole right to make a decision like that? Is that even legal? Why didn’t he feel any obligation to do all he could to return it to the founding member and the people who still wanted to attend there? I suppose the poor beat down sheep just went along with this huh? I couldn’t believe it when I heard they were traveling all the way from Elma to attend clf. I wonder where they are now? Oh thats right just forgive and move on. Sweep it all under the rug and forget this ever happened.
Oh yeah, I heard today that Larry Dublanco, Pastor of Cornerstone Church has gotten out of FCL and gone back to MFI. So there WILL be two MFI churches in Aberdeen. And to top it off they will only be about two blocks from each other! Why doesn’t Dublanco sell his church and give all the money to Cotton and move in with him like Ridel did? lol ha ha ha
I don’t even know how to respond to some of the comments anymore. It seems like you make a comment and then you get a reply implying your not being forgiving.
We had a problem with a daughter of ours and a pastors daughter. Without going into all the sordid details, the issue probably could have been resolved in a matter of an hour. Well the pastor couldn’t deal with the problem as from “one family to another family”. He puts on the “pastor hat”, takes it to another pastor and then comes back and tells us the other pastor said “we were being unforgiving”! Mind boggling. This problem took months to try and resolve, never did get resolved, rediculous crapola!
In my experience it seems like you cannot deal with problems concerning pasotrs. They get defensive, they put up walls, your accused of rebelling. They don’t like to deal with problems one on one, and if they have a problem with you your corrected from the pulpit, and yes even called names, because you have a differing opionion than theirs.
I like what Dr. Dan B. Allender says in his book “Bold Love”, “Biblical forgiveness is never unconditional and one-sided. It is not letting others go off scot-free, “forgiven,” and enabled to do harm again without any consequence. Instead, forgiveness is an invitation to reconciliation, not the blind, cheap granting of it.
Jesus says, “So watch yourselves. If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him. If he sins against you seven times a day, and seven times comes back to you and says, “I repent,” forgive him” (Luke 17:3-4). Jesus makes it clear that forgiveness is conditional. We are not to rebuke unless a sin has been committed, nor are we to forgive unless true repentance has occurred.
He then goes on to say…Reconciliation is not to be withheld when repentance – that is, deep, heart-changing acknowledgement of sin and radical redirection of life – takes place in the one being rebuked. Nor is reconciliation (the offer of restoration and peace) to be extended to someone who has not repented. Forgiveness involves a heart that cancels the debt but does not lend new money until repentance occurs. A forgiving heart opens the door to any who knock. But entry into the home (that is, the heart) does not occur until the muddy shoes and dirty coat have been taken off.
So what we are saying here is “Doug take off the muddy shoes and dirty coat”, we want to forgive, we want restoration of your soul to the Lord and our relationship to you. But we can’t do that until you deal with your anger.
And Elders at CLF, if you have been partakers of exposing a problem at a public level then don’t withhold the facts. You didn’t have to tell the “Aberdeen World” of DC problems even if the reporter did approach you. We has the larger “body of Christ” now that the problems have been exposed publically, have a responsibility to add pressure to see this resolved.
And MFI , even if Doug brought you in on this issue, you over stepped your bounds. What a “shame on you” that you would actually take other brothers and sisters to a secular court!! That is wrong! It has brought stink not only on you, your brothers and sisters in Christ, but to our Lord! The Eldership did have a right to have DC step down if he was having these outbursts of anger towards them. From what read there was an 85 page document, 85 pages of testimony showing the offenses. All they needed was two or three witnesses, two or three. Looks like they had way more than two or three witnesses.
If there were that many pages of testimony I wouldn’t be afraid of someone taking me to court. Looks like the elders dotted their “i’s” and crossed their “t’s”. Stand up to the bully’s, good grief what injustice to the body of Christ!
You know you try to do things biblically and leardership seem to always by pass themselves as if they are untouchable. Don’t you know the body of Christ can be judged by God right along with you if we don’t take responsibility and deal with things properly!
I have no doubt, the Lord will get to the bottom of this one way or another. This issue will be delt with some where down the line, if not now then later. And guess what we are all going to be watching.
I say “Doug repent”, “MFI repent” get restored Doug. And please don’t do the group hug thing, we see through the superfical, let’s forgive and forget and go get on.
The threat of a lawsuit is still present.
If the Elders at CLF did what you suggest, they could expose the church to a lawsuit that could cost tens of thousands of dollars to defend against, even if they did prevail.
That would not be in the best interests of the church.
It’s very easy to say that someone should do something that could cost them a lot of money when it’s not your money at risk.
If what reforming Heathen is saying is correct, the outrage for me against mfi is even greater than before. An outside church threatening a local church for disciplining a pastor is shameful. If DC is going along with it just for a paycheck, it is even worse.
[Comment ID #28526 Will Be Quoted Here]
I honestly don’t know that it is easy for me to say. Christ doesn’t tell us to do what is easy, quite the contrary. What I am trying to say is stand up and do what is right, regardless of the outcome. Although this is quoted out of context I will add – And who is there to harm you if you prove zealous for what is good? But even if you should suffer for the sake of righteousness, you are blessed. And DO NOT FEAR THEIR INTIMIDATION, AND DO NOT BE TROUBLED (emphesis the bible) (I Peter 4 13-14) Vs. 16…and keep a good conscience so that in the thing in which you are slandered, those who revile your good behavior in Christ may be put to shame.
I didn’t realize they were holding some kind of black mail over the church! That’s evil. Don’t talk or we will take you to court? Don’t be truthful or we will sue you for millions? And there are people following this man to another church?
So are you saying they need to keep silent on these matters? Knowing Doug and his anger problems did they not foresee that by putting this in the paper there might be some reaction? So is that what this is about money? What about the truth of God’s word and doing what is right!
The bible says rebuke him, so that he may be restored.
That is PRECISELY what is happening.
It’s called:
“The threat of legal action that could cost huge amounts of money to defend against, even if you win”
[Comment ID #28530 Will Be Quoted Here]
RP said: “The threat of legal action that could cost huge amounts of money to defend against, even if you winâ€
Anna says: I guess I don’t understand that. For me if I was in their situation I’d let thngs fall where they may. If I speak the truth and they take me to court, so be it. Then it is God that is going to be on their tales.
I’m not saying for the Elders to take Doug to court, what I am trying to say is I wouldn’t allow black mail to be held over my head for speaking the truth. I just could – not – do – it! They have an 85 page document that states that he was abusive. Witnesses, people who saw this. Even physically, I read one persons comment on this blog that he actually put his hands around someones neck! They should not be afraid to talk about that, if it’s true.
What I am saying is don’t sit back and let things go. Hold your ground CLF. Don’t slip into a complacecent attitude of “now we need to forgive”. Yes go on but hold your ground. It is hard to have to face an abusive situation but it has to be done!
I will be praying about this.
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The eldership team has not share with the congregation that this threat has been made.
If you have been so threatened, then so have the rest of us in the congregation.
Rather than keep this amongst yourselves, you should share it with the rest of us in the congregation.
Facts are facts.
Too much information management obscures the facts.
Dan Wood
the church is weak and dying from a disease started in Portland . If we try and save it we will probably get sued. The best thing to do is let it die. God said he hates a lukewarm church. This would give him a chance to raise up a church of strong believers elsewhere. Lets face it the local church might stumble on, but in we will all know its dead.
anna says:
“For me if I was in their situation I’d let thngs fall where they may.”
I see. so then, the threat of a lawsuit that could potentially cost you tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars to defend against means nothing to you?
Somehow I really doubt that.
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No, I’d open my big mouth. That’s just it, it’s potential. They just try and keep everyone in fear. I’m not trying invalidate your concern, I understand where you are coming from. However you’ve got 19 witnesses, from what I have heard some of them relatives. I say call their bluff.
If they (you?) are afraid they will take it to court they have to come up with evidence that Doug is being slandered. From the sounds of it they have pleanty of witnesses stating the opposit. Why would you be afraid unless there was something that wasn’t true.
Do you realize what a ruckus this would cause in the christian community. Do you think other Christians would just sit back. Someone mentioned the ministraial assoc. “I think” you would have alot of support if they took you to court.
You can’t be afraid to talk about what took place.
Dan Wood said” If you have been so threatened, then so have the rest of us in the congregation.
Is that true? Would that mean everyone in the congregation had a potential of being sued?
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Are you serious?
Where is your passion people, in your pocket!!
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You keep overlooking the fact that defending against a lawsuit, even ione that you “Win”, is a VERY expensive proposition.
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Feel free to make an earmarked contribution to CLF for their legal defense bills.
Start at, say, $300,000.
Doesn’t the corporation have insurance?
Aren’t there Christian legal groups they could call who might offer legal advise and possible free lawyers. Think before you give a nasty reply.
What kind of a lawsuit are they being threatened with? Can Jimmy Swaggart, Jim Baker, Ted Haggard and others like them sue their accusers and the ones that exposed them? What are we actually talking about here? Is it because there is no confession and he has not legally been charged with anything that they cannot talk about this? Please explain.
I think I’ve hit a sore spot with ya all. That was a ligit question (about the insurance), it was not to be a nasty reply. I’m actually trying to be encouraging. Maybe there are some righteous lawyers who could give some good adivse free.
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Hey Rhema are you having insomnia too? I was wondering where you were all at I’m getting blasted out here.
FSO I don’t think you should try and save it, but you should at least stand your ground in what you know to be true.
RH – are you telling me if you say anything about what Doug Cotton has done, or if any memeber of the CLF congregation say anything about what Doug Cotton has done they will sue? Even if it is true?
annaLitical: Can’t you see that these poor people just want to be left alone? After all they’ve just gotten rid of a Pastor that has been abusing them for years. And now he’s still controlling them from beyond the pulpit! You know it’s probably going to be us little people that are going to have to figure out how to live in our community amongst both sides of this. My friend and I haven’t even discussed this and she doesn’t even know I’m on this blog because she is a loyal friend of Doug Cotton. And another couple I know are starting the new church with Doug. Whew! If I can just remember which ones stayed and which ones left when I run into them in town or at all of the church functions promoting that wonderful unity and love we are all supposed to have for one another……… I don’t know how many times in one of these church splits people have gotten told off for saying the wrong thing to the wrong person lol!
Just the other day I heard someone from river of life was getting married and they were having Rod and Luanne Hills daughters in their wedding. Well one of the women he slept with was going to the wedding since she still attends the church here and the new pastor wanted to know if she wanted to get together with Luanne and talk. You know the old forgive,forget routine.Can you believe this stuff? Everyone wants to forgive and forget but stay in the same community and interact with the same people. Don’t these people that do these things at least have enough shame about what they have done and understanding of what it does to people around them to get out of town and stay away from the people they have hurt? How are we supposed to move on if they haven’t? Group Hug anyone?
The one couple that are starting the new church with Doug were Larry lovers at one time too. They finally saw the light maybe they’ll see the light again. Sad thing is maybe they won’t or maybe they’ll end up being so damaged they’ll end up leaving the church all together.
I came up with a new name for Rod Hell, how about HOT ROD.
anna Litical: If it’s the same couple that I’m thinking of the husband told me that he and his wife were staying at clf at one point. He said that Doug Cotton did have an anger problem and freely admitted it. He said that after he and his wife realized that it didn’t matter what hoops Doug jumped through the elders just wanted him gone. That’s when they decided to leave with Doug.
Rod Hell, Hot Rod how about Hot Bod? Remember when they were all into body building and everyone wanted to be buff like Rod and Luanne? ha ha ha What a bunch of lemmings. Instead of wanting to be more like Jesus everybody’s a pastor wanna-be
Wasn’t there during the hot bod wanna-be days, thank god. I wonder how your “friends relative” caught on to this web sight.
Maybe the “Daily World” reporter could clarify some of the questions we’ve been having when he gets Doug’s updated news release. Like if he, Dicky and the rest of the mob are holding this stuff over CLF’s head.
Heathen said:
September 5th, 2007 at 8:17 pm
annaLitical on September 5, 2007 at 8:12 pm said:
Where is your passion people, in your pocket!!
Feel free to make an earmarked contribution to CLF for their legal defense bills.
Start at, say, $300,000.
Reforming Heathen: I believe that anna Litical has already made her contribution. The church in Elma that clf sold out from under them was probably worth way more than that. Maybe if the eldership had asked some hard questions back then things might have turned out different for her and a lot of other people who now have no church home. clf is profiting from her loss to this day. But like some from there say, We just want to move on and get on with doing God’s business. While they are doing that they should take some time to reflect and look back and find out where they really came from and what that place was really built on. While they think they are just an island unto themselves they should at least remember the shipwrecked lives of those that have gone before them. Some of us were not so lucky to come out of these situations with our church home still intact. We had to leave with nothing.
I’m no legal expert, but the figure of $300,000 seems way overblown to me. I’m guessing $30,000 max. Does anyone know if attorney fees are recoverable under this kind of lawsuit? And if Doug Cotton ever brought a lawsuit, the allegations against him would be made into sworn statements and would be part of the court’s permanent public record. I’m guessing that would hurt his career more than help it.
To paraphrase Reforming Heathen (and please correct me if I’m wrong): One’s duty to inform the public about historical abuses and perhaps the potential for future abuses is dependent on money and risk assessment.
I’m not sure which is worse, this unprincipled stand that places money before people or what Doug Cotton allegedly did in the first place.
There are several lessons to learn from the whole Doug Cotton/CLF debacle, but isn’t one of them that Christians — whether they go to CLF, DC’s new church, or anywhere else — should not be ruled by fear or base their decisions on fear?
I believe if Doug Cotton was going to bring a lawsuit he would have already done it. The reason we were told he stepped down was because he feared they would make the accusations public. It seems to me the reason these situations are never resolved in the body of Christ is because there is no legal way of resolving anything. The eldership (if it functions at all) goes in behind closed doors and takes care of things. The little people ( the ones that work and pay tithes to support the whole thing) are told what the eldership thinks they need to hear. If anyone has any questions they are told not to get into gossip and made to feel bad if they are truly trying to understand the situation. This is not a closed situation at clf. The elders were quoted in the Daily World. They chose to go public with this. A man that has been accused of abuse is starting a new church in our community. Am I supposed to just take someones word that he has done these things? I believe splits are caused from lack of information. Its like the situation at River of Life, Rod Hill was preying on many different women but only one has come forward and talked. The leadership has never investigated any further or asked enough of the right questions to get the whole truth of what Rod Hill did. They are more concerned about getting this unpleasent mark on their church swept under the rug and getting on with building their kingdom than truly seeking restoration for everyone involved. We are all affected every time one of these leaders fall. Thats why they call them leaders. They are supposed to be leading us. People should be allowed to have any of their questions answered for years if that’s what it takes. These situations don’t go away overnight and just because clf has had enough information to process and move on does not mean everyone in the churches and community around them has.
Not to change the subject but——–
Yesterday was the Sunday Doug Cotton and the MFI group were starting their new church in Grays Harbor. Did any of you attend? If so let’s hear about it.
How about you Steven the reporter, did you attend or have your spies there. And will there be a report in the Daily World tonite?
Just Curious
OOPS, I got my wires crossed. After reading the Daily World article over again I see the Harbor City Church doesn’t start until September 30th.
Three more weeks to wait. I know 6474 curiosity killed the cat, but——-satisfaction brought it back!
I think because the church is a non profit corporation the elders would have been liable if they didn’t ask Doug to step down. From what I have read there were 19 witnesses to his anger outbursts. If he would have hurt anyone within the congregation the church could have been sued. I think the elders were put in a tough situation where they had to make a hard decision.
I heard that Doug Cotton held a practice service last Sunday, with about 100 people attending. Does anyone know anything else about this “practice service”?
Practice service? Good grief.
Used to be the church I attended held Saturday afternoon practices – walk-throughs they were called – where the worship band went through their numbers, which were timed – the person walking to the pulpit to read scripture was timed not only in walking from their seat in the front row to the podium, but also in the reading of the scripture which culminated in a: “Heeeeeeeeeerrrrrrreeeeeeeeessssssssssss Pastor Bob!” …
It got pretty anal pretty fast … I wound up bailing out because I didn’t like having my Saturdays and Sundays sacrified for a 12-15 minute ‘worship set’ of music … that and belonging to choir consumed Wed nights – that wasn’t bad until one old lady complained that we didn’t look like a choir because we weren’t wearing our robes – so down came the dictum: WEAR YOUR ROBES. A couple of us quit in disgust … but typical of most church stuff, someone always steps up to fill the hole who doesn’t mind the anal rules, ridiculous time commitments – for the time being, anyway.
I don’t miss none of that junk – would rather just meet a brother up at the truck stop, and talk over a hot meal. Best ‘church’ I ever had.
‘Scrupe
I wonder if Jesus practiced for the last supper?
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That sounds awful. You poor thing!! What we endure for the sake of looks!
I’ll join you at the truck stop.
No, I didn’t hear he had a practice service, but I did hear that he and his wife went to an Assembly church in town to hear an evangelist one night this week.
They have fried green tomatos at the whistle stop cafe. Meats good too.
I don’t miss none of that junk – would rather just meet a brother up at the truck stop, and talk over a hot meal. Best ‘church’ I ever had.
‘Scrupe
It still amazes me that Pastors don’t get that we all have jobs and lives outside of the four walls of the church. I think they should get a job and then try to carry out their responsibilities at church like the rest of us. I think a lot of the meetings and “practices” and the pressure that goes along with it might come to a screeching halt.
Oh yeah, I just happened to be driving by the new Harbor City Church and saw a few cars tonight. Looked like Tom Lanes truck backed up to the front doors and a handful of other cars there. It is always nice to have a carpenter on hand. I hope Tom can keep up, he has a real job too.
Are you buying, Anna?
Honestly, I am coming to a point where I’m genuinely thankful for the silliness and the abuse that the IC dished out … if not for that, I’d likely have continued striving there as a worker bee, trying to make a difference, trying to “usher in” revival – but the abuse – that wonderful abuse – made me sit up and take notice – made me way “what the hell is that about” … and when it continued, finally I said “enough” and left.
Pruning is painful; being dunged stinks; gettin’ snake-bit makes ya see funny. Thank GOD for that – it’s what made me leave the camp of men and religion (Hebrews 13:13-14), and it was there I found sweet fellowship with Jesus, and other saints who were tired of the BS and just wanted to rest in the Lord.
Heck, I’ve even gotten to be thankful for my ex for treatin’ me like crap and divorcing me; because it was in the healing therefrom that I rediscovered my passion for music, it was there I met my wife and was restored, many fold.
There is indeed ‘joy in the morning’
‘Scrupe
Yes I am serious unscrupulous! We left IC church four years ago. It felt really wierd at first, however we’ve also received much healing.
We’ve never stopped gathering with other believers. We’ve learned to study the word and have had our thinking changed by digging in, breaking down the greek, we’ve also had alot of laborus discussions. It does get a little lonely at times I must admit and I miss people who still attend IC. But I don’t miss all the wierd stuff that goes on.
We’ve received support from those that still attend IC church. I’ve not had anyone tell me I was off the wall or I needed to get back to IC church.
We also periodically attend fellowship with my sister and brother-in-law. They have found a small fellowship not far from where we live. They have a young preacher who is an expository teacher and you learn alot from his digging into the word. It was truly refreshing to actually be taught from the bible.
The last few years I attended IC church the pastor there would regurgitated stuff from others, if he even did that! He’d read books or go to a conference and share what he learned there but never dug into the bible himself! The little he did was just from the stuff he had learned from the books he read and not the bible. Stuff that would just reinforce his paradigm of what he was taught at the conferences.
We were really led off the well worn path in some of the stuff we were taught and it got authoritarian and wierd.
I agree with you unscrupulous you do learn from the ridiculous. And I am thankful I had the IC to go to when I got saved I am also thankful the Holy Spirit taught me some sence and that I had the brothers and sisters I had in the lord to help me through.
Oh and Unscrupulous you are welcome to come and fellowship with us if you are ever on the Harbor.
That’s a long way from Cornville, Anna.
I get out there about 2x year now to see dad, who is in Sequim. Haven’t been to the harbor area since spring of ’98. (Man, do I sound like a geezer or what!) 
Thrills me to hear your testimony!
‘Scrupe
(whose closest truck stop is Sapp Bros. on I-80, exit 73, in northern Illinois – they got good pecan pie).