There hasn't been a lot of blogging going on here lately, and I don't have much time now, but I thought I would share an email I recently received that touched my heart:
In trying to find a friends, web address I stumbled across this. I use to go
to Rhema and Bible Temple and I know many of the names you mention.
I have to say that you are very bitter and I am sad for you. I'm wondering
what God will say to you when you stand before Him. I have a great peace at
night when all the lights are out and only He can see my heart. I feel sorry
for you.
- Terri McNellis
The email subject line said : You are bitter. It's been such a long time since I last heard someone say I was bitter, I was begining to think this blog had lost all its power. Thank you Terri, your kind words have restored my faith in the Christian Church.
Oh…and Terri, one last thing, a quote from Borat, "You will never get this, you will never get this, la la la, la la la".
NOT!!!
Terri Mcnellis: I have to say you are very judgmental and critical and I feel sad for you. I’m wondering what will God say when you stand before Him. I have a great peace at night when all the lights are out and only He can see my heart. I feel sorry for you.
-Rhema survivor
yeah and she seems to think sleazemore is a saint
Under topic of Angry Pastors Terri Mcnellis said
“I don’t know what I’ve stumbled upon, I’m trying to figure it out. At first it sounded like a whole bunch of hurting and bitter people. Now I’m not sure. ”
I think she needs to be given credit for looking deeper and giving further thought to what she is reading.
No-Umbrella: When I read that particular post of Terri’s I thought the same thing. I hope she continues to look deeper and keeps trying to figure it out. However it seems to me that people from these types of religious backgrounds don’t like to get into anything negative at all and it is hard for them to identify with hurting people. Like someone told a friend of mine that had suffered great tradgedy in their life: I’m a fruit inspecter. I look at peoples lives and judge them by their fruit. That is why they feel the need to talk about their own lives and how happy they are, how successful, who they know, how their children are doing etc. etc. How could they possibly ever look at anyone with any kind of problems, tragedy, misfortune and feel compassion for them? If they don’t even care about their own brothers and sisters in Christ within their own churches suffering at the hands of leadership how would they possibly be able to identify with someone that is homeless, on drugs, or in some other way suffering on the road of life. If everything that happens to us is ultimately our own fault ( and even if it is ) does that mean we as the hands and feet of Jesus have no responsibilty to others other than to tell them why they are in the shape they are in? What a convienient way to let yourself off the hook and go on with your wonderful, blessed life as people around you are hurting and needing help. I thought that Jesus came to heal the brokenhearted. What does a brokenhearted person look like? What does a brokenhearted person sound like? What do most hurting people look like? How do they sound? Bitter and unforgiving I guess.
Rhema;
I can’t agree more!
May I say, I feel sorry for Terri. I know she say’s she has moved on and her life is wonderful, that’s great. The way I see it she was never affected by the Rhema experience because she is the type that lives in a fantasy. You see if you never look at things realistically everything is seemingly wonderful and you don’t have any responsibility to lend a helping hand or an encouraging word. It negates the problem and makes it unnecessary to deal with it.
This is easy to do when you think your above the common people. If you fool yourself by thinking your in close relationship with leadership. especially in these types of cults.
Betty B
Terri – It’s not about bitterness, or unforgiveness. I feel like we’ve created a system where true restoration of relationships and place of giftings can’t be restored because we are too afraid of loosing our “positions”.
I don’t know for sure in the case of DC if all that is being said is true. Rhema keeps bringing it back to “If it is true”. However in the current set up at CLF they are a non profit corporation. “If” the 19 witnesses of Dougs anger outbursts are true, then the eldership has to ask Doug to step down, they are liable for others, it is their responsibilty.
I would love to see Doug restored to those he has walked with for years, including family members. I’m sure their hearts are just being torn in two by all of this, mine would be. But instead MFI wants to see him back in a place of “authority”. I feel like it’s about money, and power.
In my view Rhema brought up the GB incident because they see it as an example of similar incidencences that have taken place more than once on the Harbor. It also was something that wasn’t delt with properly. In fact many were back handed so to speak, because they were questioning things that were taking place and they were looked down upon as people. Then they find out what they were seeing had validity to it.
Also this web sight was set up to address false doctrines that are being taught and the doctrines are coming from MFI churches and – it is about money. Does MFI churches have impact on others lives, yes they do both good and bad as you can see here by many of the posts.
I just think people are tired of the same ole, same ole. I know I am. I don’t want to see yet another church started on the Harbor with problems that have not been delt with. Lives unrestored, family’s torn. It hasn’t even been but a year that all this took place at CLF and we are moving on.
Another thought – GB is dead now. Was he truly restored to the body at Rhema? From the sounds of it, and I could be wrong but it seems like no. Now that – is – sad. Was Rod Hill ever restored to the body at the River? Again I would have to say no. Has Doug been restored, not yet but I am hoping and praying it does happen.
anna Litical: Could you give me an example of what truly restored might look like?
Heaven??
[Comment ID #28684 Will Be Quoted Here]
In my mind it would be right, loving, relationships with others. Having a repentant, contrite heart. Taking responsibility for the hurt you have caused others, asking for forgiveness, then taking the time to counsel and seek the Lord to show you where you need to change and then walking out that change. Taking time to reflect and allow God to work in you. Seeking your relationship with the Lord as #one priority.
I think if you were to be in a place of authority as an overseer in a body of believers you would need to take the time to build trust and right relationships with others once again.
I haven’t looked up the scriptures of this but this is what I think it would look like.
As a picutre you could see it as a building or a machine of some sort, you would see that it had an orginal purpose and design. If it became tarnished or if it was falling apart or failing in some way you would seek to restore it to it’s original purpose, intent or design.
What would keep a pastor from never being allowed back in a place of authority ie elder, deacon, pastor, home leader etc. or can they always be resored to leadership? If they can how often? I have heard of people being refused positions like these because of past sins. Is a pastor held to a lower standard because we are more willing to forgive them?
It seems that you are passing judgment also. Because I react to one situation you have assumed alot. I reacted out of hurt myself…I was hurt by people like you who put people down. It seems that a good percentage of the pastors in Alaska love to do that very thing. When I see that happening I react quickly. However, when one of my employees had her boyfriend shot and killed while sleeping next to him, I was there for her. When one friend was diagnosed with cancer, I dropped everything and was at her house and stayed by her side during treatment and continue to do so now that she is cancer free. When my friend that was one of GB’s victims, I still talked to her and hugged her and let her cry in my arms. When my blind neighbor had to spend a year alone because her husband went to prison for a year, we took care of her for a year daily. (We had just barely finished our house.) This last year I had a relationship restored that had been lost for 10 years. I went through huge hurts…the only thing that pulled me out was to pray blessings on the people that hurt us. It was Jesus that healed our hearts…not people talking or blogging. So even with your blog you don’t see the whole picture. I actually had to ask what a blog was and look up what a parody was in the dictionary. I wonder tho if it’s the wisest way to get your point across. I’m not saying that I’m great but I am saying maybe there is more to it. I don’t go to church anymore and it was because of people like you guys and how you come across. I was trying to be sincere in all that I wrote…not just taking one word or one sentence out of it. I was actually just trying to find Devin’s phone number so I could call him. He’s been on my heart for a couple weeks and I wanted to find out why. I typed in his name and got way more than I bargained for in this. I leave this as something else to think about. You’ve already turned me off so I don’t want to read this anymore. I just wanted to say what was on my heart and I couldn’t leave without sharing that part.
When Jesus says “Love your enemy”, in this day and age it may apply to people and/or leaders inside churches…
Or people who critisize people inside churches…
Or people who critisized people who critisizing people inside churches…
Just a thought…
Apparently, critical thinking is called bitterness in the local church.
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According to scripture you still have to have the qualifications of ie. an elder or deacon. I think restoration goes beyond just being put back into a position. It has to do with your relationship with God and people.
The way the church is set up now people who have been in places of authroity it is hard for them to just fit back in with the body and be “a sheep”. I think it can be done, however I also believe we need some major paradigm shifts within our churches to be able to function like that.
I think people can operate in their giftings, from what I have read your gift cannot be taken from you. But to be an overseer of others and be in a “place of authority” you would have to be careful.
However I am no expert on the subject. I think that GB needed to go back to Rhema and work through the process with people whatever that may have been. And maybe he did, I don’t know I wasn’t there. Maybe it was best that he left, for the people.
I don’t know what do you think needed to happen? What do you think would have helped people heal properly?
I thought it was nice, that even though this women gail had an affair with, destroyed the churh, harlot though she was, Terri still talked to her.
Terri – If you ever come back to the blog, I am sorry to hear you left the church. I think if you would stick it out you would see that people on this blog are people who really desire to see the church function in a right way. Yes, cynical, saracastic, ticked off, and hurt.
From the way you came across you seemed to me like you were putting people down right off the bat instead of asking questions and pondering what was really being said.
What bothered me was that you implied that a woman died because she couldn’t keep her mouth shut. That God had actually smote her in some way. If you do come back and want to take the time maybe you could clairify that for me.
I’ve had that sort of nonsense spoken from the pulpit so many times. It really bothers me, for someone who was in the world, BC and was involved in a cult (a real cult) that sort of thing was used all the time to keep you manipulated from leaving the group, to keep you under and in fear. Things like “your going to go to hell if you leave, because after all you know so much”.
Then when I became a Christian I would hear some of the same sort of dialog from the pulpit. It is not healthy. Not that I don’t believe in hell or the final judgement.
There is a case in the old testament where the congregation was judged because they didn’t speak out and deal with a problem in their midst. I’ll have to take sometime and look it up but it really struck me at that time that I had a responsibility as a believer to speak out aganist false doctrines.
That is one of the reason why I blog. Not that I have it all right.
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Yeah, I was kinda picking that up too.
Gail Bryan was not the victim in this scenario, nor did he need restoration. He needed to be tarred and feathered and run out of town on a rail!
That whole church was full of HIS victims (and I am not just talking about the women he seduced) but the poor sheep lied to, muzzled off and scared to open their cockeyed mouths. Oh yes, and whatever you do, don’t touch God’s anointed!
What about the ones he ran off and then forbid everyone to talk to ? Who bothered to restore them? They didn’t count because they weren’t clergy. Right? Restore him? They should have put an ankle bracelet on him and locked him up at home for the rest of his life.
I think where the two sides clash is that some believe the women in these churches who were seduced by a charismatic pastor are victims too, while others think because of their involvement , they are not victims. Too us a statement like ” I still talked to her and EVEN hugged her ” is the mindset of those we disagree with and we find terribly offensive. The pastor who commited the offence were allowed to keep preaching while the women were looked on with scorn by the in crowd who back the abusers over the abused. It is EXACTLY the problem the Catholic church faced, and still has.
I very much agree that the women were the victims and they needed restoration and healing. So Just Curious your answer would be “off with his head” so speaking. I see your point.
I’m just going along with the question Rhema put to me earlier. I’m seeing Gail as a filthy sinner, but I also see myself as one too and if anyone knew me before I came to the Lord they might have said off with her head too! Of course I wan’t pretending to be something I wasn’t at the time.
when we talk of “restoring” an abusive pastor, do we mean put him back in as pastor or restore him to sit in the congregation? Would we do the same with an elder? The bible gives clear points on what it takes to be in these positions. Do we override the bible on the side of forgiveness or take the bible lierally? Restore: same position or member of congregation?
Maybe we are using the wrong term. Maybe the term we should be using in reconciliation and not restoration.
Actually I knew both of them…considering I moved to Portland when this happened and only went back to Aberdeen when my folks died. I didn’t have much contact. Then to Alaska for last 21 years. I do remember being there when GB apoligized to the congregation or did you know he did that…I’m not sure if we can force someone to repent. I do know that most hated GB and would not have wanted him back around. But the people shunned the whistle blowers, too, who exposed it to elders and then congregation. If I would have stayed in Aberdeen, I would have stayed friends . No I don’t believe the women are harlots. Even if it does take 2 to tango. Both made choices. So what do you say about GB dying? Doesn’t God allow things to stop when a leader continues to go against His principles? Isn’t it a stricter judgment for those who teach? The lady that died…which you wanted clarified was a gossip (she was part of leadership with her husband)…she wouldn’t quit gossipping and stirring up trouble…the pattern was there from several churches even back to the 70s…it seemed to follow the same pattern as GB. Doesn’t Christ get pretty jealous of His bride especially when people start hurting her? There was a prophesy a few years back from a pastor up here that said that Katrina was God’s judgment on New Orleans. My response to him was …and show me the city that is without sin please. That was way out to lunch and more. I do know the difference. Sorry to offend you tho I didn’t mean to do that…I didn’t mean it as a curse…many up here say it that way. I’ve probably read most of your blog now. Alot of talking…as an accountant in the real world, I don’t do much of that…which is why I don’t always get my point across correctly…(ask my husband, I’m a pathetic “arguer”:))
This may help you all…but how does it help those outside your circle? I didn’t catch that part. Like for the one that stumbles on the sight and assumes it bitterness/hurt/whatever? Obvious by what you said it’s happened a time or two.
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I am meaning restoring him to the congregation and to the Lord not to his place of “position”.
My mind goes to Paul he was abusive and he had to prove himself, he had to gain that trust. However he also didn’t keep re-offending as in the case with GB and possibly DC. There was true repentance on his part. David fell into sin with Bathsheba but he didn’t keep re-offending he had true repentance.
It seems to me that Gail was a wolf in sheeps clothing, or into perversion. From what you have all been describing to me Gail was abusive. Just Curious, you would probably need to set the man out of the church. However I believe the motive would be to see his heart brought to repentance that to me would be restoring his soul. Allowing for the grace and mercy of God to work in the persons life or for the Lord to harden his heart.
No I don’t believe you can force someone to repent either. From what I have read GB may have asked for forgiveness but then he went to yet another place and re-offended. Maybe God did take him out, but me as a person that’s something left to God. I don’t even like to think in that direction.
I have a hard time with the smoting thing. I do believe in the judgement of God and believe he uses our enemies to chastise us. However I can’t see inside someone’s heart only God can and I would hesitantly judge someones death because of a sin they had in their lives. I also believe in the mercy of God and would rather be wrong on the side of mercy.
I have a mother-in-law who loves to gossip and she is almost 89 years old. However I don’t think she is a malicious gossip she just likes juicy bits of topics. I’m not saying it’s right, I just don’t see her as evil.
Glad you responded.
Terri if what you say is true about killing people for terrible sins against the church, why is DI still alive. Why would God take one and not the other?
God allowed it..but gosh DI? That surprises me that he was ingrained in something horrible. He came up here to Alaska to visit us and wrote a letter to us to help us with what we went through. But don’t you think it’s the heart attitude…I’m sure that I’ve hurt people, ask my sons, but I’m not dead…I know that the integrity of my heart is to do right even when I don’t, in fact I’m teaching that to my grandsons right now.
He sent GB to two churches after “reforming” him . I am not saying he isn’t getting into heaven and for that matter GB either. If the sins of the father are passed on to the children from generation to generation and he is the spiritual father of many pastors, do they carry the sin of protecting pastors also, even if it harms the church? The WS action of setting up DC seems to suggest that. How many more are out there and are they branching out protecting their fellow pastors after they abuse the church. Reforming: You can put lipstick on a pig but it’s still a pig.
Do you have children? I remember when the boys were growing up and I’d fix them up to go out to something special. I had no control in keeping them clean. My youngest spill kool aid on a white carpet…needlessly to say I’ll never have white carpet to this day and we aren’t talking fruit juice but you think you have your “kid” cleaned up and something always happens. My youngest is now 30 and married, I still see it. I also taught high school here…I would help the kids see the light so to speak but it was up to them to change or not.
Okay it’s really hard to stop when you keep asking questions. I need to get the camper ready to go hunting or I’ll be a bit of trouble…so enjoy blogging. I think I do have a different perspective of you guys. Not sure I completely have the grace for it. It kindof gives me a headache. But I can see where some are really into it.
Terri:
Devin Backholm’s phone # is 360-533-5657 just in case you haven’t come across it yet. Maybe you can find out what really went on at CLF.
The newspaper made it sound like a hostile takeover by the elders.
As a Christian, I felt just like the Catholics must feel when they read about the priests; their dirty linen spread all over the front page. It sure didn’t bring any glory to Christ.
It is interesting that anyone who does not agree with most of the resident bloggers here are immediately called ‘judgemental, uncritical thinkers, living in a fantasy land’, etc.
Could it simply be that it is possible to come out of Bible Temple, or other churches like that, and NOT have been damaged, harmed, or hurt? Can we disagree with the Institutional Church AND disagree with City Business Church.
The only two options are not to be either for City Bible Church or City Business Church. Neither of them are Christ-like.
So, I guess since we have City Business Church to help people critically dialogue and talk in order to get ‘healing’ and ‘freedom’ from City Bible Church, we are going to have to soon start a BLOG for those who are presently being manipulated and attacked and wounded by the ‘witty satire’ of City Business Church.
It might not of brought glory to the Catholic church, but it sure saved a lot of innocent young boys. I think it was worth the embarrasment.
barf: Yes it is very possible to come out of churches like Bible Temple and not be damaged , harmed, or hurt, But if you did you probably were one of the ones that were damaging, harming, or hurting others either while there or afterwords because of the top down teaching.
I believe it does create two kinds of christians. Ones that are used to being at the top along with leadership and have adapted a power over mentality and those beneath that feel victimized by that.
As you can see it has created a great separation between us as Christians. That is why this blog exists, people are getting tired of being ruled by leadership that seeks power over instead of mutuality and service to others.
If someone comes on this blog defending the very leaders that have damaged, harmed, or hurt the ones on it, I don’t know why they are so suprised when they get “attacked” by their victims. If I went on a blog created for incest survivors or victims of rape and began telling what great friends I was with their attackers, how I grew up with them, graduated with them, was a bridesmaid in their wedding, and have remained friends with them to this day and that there is no way they could have done what they were saying they did, what kind of response do you think I would get? Also if I told them how sick they are to have created a blog to talk about it , they just need to get over it, it doesn’t do any good rehash what happened to them etc. don’t you think that is just asking for it? Do you think I would need to start another blog for people like me who got attacked on their blog? You’re right barf you guys do need to start another blog. You could call it the “They hit me back” blog. lol
How deep do you want to go with that question?
Say a person didn’t get sucked up into all the labor, didn’t buy into the prosperity doctrine and constant tithing mantra, but still ingested a healthy dose of pharisee yeast through other flaky teachings, are they ‘damaged, harmed, or hurt’?
In listening to a few of Frank and Judah’s sermons, they are in fact filled with pharisee yeast, screwy interpretations and misapplications of scripture … Karl, that stuff hurts a believer – even though the symptoms of it are not visible / manifest now, what happens when the yeast begins to multiply – when you are faced with a problem or crisis and take the formula approach to dealing with it as you were taught through the pastor’s sermons?
I’ve been out of the institutional church for about 7 years, and the Lord still occasionally flushes out baloney I learned somewhere along the way in 40 years of IC teaching.
Most of what is taught in an IC is self-serving crap – interpreted and preached in such a way as to prop up the IC business.
About being hurt, and not knowing it – I’ve known several people who died of cancer, who had it long before they discovered it or acutely felt the effects of it – the cancer had set in and done a lot of damage, growing out of control and unmanageable / untreatable by the time it was discovered … by brother-in-law lost the battle with cancer just this summer … by the time they found it, they went in to remove a tumor, took one look at the damage, sewed him back up and sent him home to die.
It’s like that with religious lies / pharisee yeast. Most believers today, because of their submission to an institutional church and pastor of ‘religious services’, are sorely afflicted with pharisee yeast, which don’t really manifest until their hour of need, when they resort to the religious formulas they’ve been taught and come up empty …
Too many people relying on religion, not enough people falling upon the Rock …
See what I mean. The above responses to my post make my point exactly. It is interesting that when people post against the positions taken on this BLOG with the same type of venon and vitriole, everyone here loves to hate it. But if someone posts evenly and without the emotional baggage, they are viewed as ignorant of the real issues, or defenders of the status quo of the IC.
My view is absolutely and unequivocally not valued as valid, even for myself. “I just don’t know that I have been damaged”, or “I was one of the people doing the damage”.
In other words, if I do not attack the Institutional Church in the same manner and way that people do on this BLOG, then I am part of the problem. This is the danger, as far as I can see of this BLOG.
There is massive amount of mental and emotional pressue placed on those who are exiting, or have exited the IC, to feel as strongly and angrily as those blogging. If they seek to mediate, or find a place of peaceful disagreement, they are villified.
Its sad, because alot of what is said on this BLOG could be used to give sight to the problems that are inherent and damaging within the present IC. But, I fear that the same potent, death-filled leaven is leavening this ‘church’, just in a different manner.
Thanks to this blog I can see that I have made the right choice not to plug into a local church.
I have questioned myself for years and tried several times to attend services, but always leave feeling some thing just wasn’t right.
My relationship with the Lord has been restored. I don’t want to do anything to jeopardise that. Restoring my faith in and relationship with other believers seems to be the next hurdle to get over.
Its funny how a new bloggers first reaction is to judge and accuse others for bitterness anger and the like. Then they get attacked for it and they always fess up to the fact that they too have been wounded and are dealing with the same issues.
Lets face it! We need each other! We are all part of the body of Christ. The body is sick in a lot of ways. We need to talk about it all. Get to the root. The truth is what sets us free. Some times the truth is painful but without it we stay in bondage. We all have a story. I for one have been very harsh and angry sarcastic and at times mean. I am sorry for that and hope you can all forgive me
There are times when you’re training a mule you have to hit it with a 2×4 to get the message across. We are all here to speak the truth so the Lord. can heal us.
Betty B. AKA Fox
Pope, I’m surprized yer not bitter about Oden.
To wrap it up in a nut shell….
THIS BLOG IS A DIRECT RESULT OF WHAT THE DAMAGE IS THAT IS GOING ON IN THE CHURCHES TODAY…
WE NEED ANSWERS
NOT MORE RULES
NOT MORE THREATS OF PUNISHMENT
NOT MORE CONDEMNATION.
B.B THE FOX
WHAT IS A MUSHROOM?
A fungi, if eatible it has no food value
HOW DO YOU GROW THEM?
You keep them in the dark and feed them bull sh**
Terri you sound like a very religious person. Rhema survivor: I couldn’t agree more. Karl Barth: When people post against your position, you sound just as hateful Betty b: I hear you on not going to church because it might harm your walk with god. Samaritan; insightful thoughts. It sounds like people have different thoughts depending on the degree they have been hurt or not hurt by church leaders or “brethren” in the church.
No, this BLOG is a indirect result of false authority and abuse in the present ‘church’, but the direct result of a wrong reaction to that false authority and abuse.
Not only do the ‘abusers’ have to take responsibility for their actions, but those abused have to as well.
STOP and LISTEN! The abused are not responsible for being abused, however, they are responsible for how they respond to abuse.
No healing can come by simply venting into a cyberspace. This is not even ‘group therapy’ in the most general of terms. It is simply a way for the cycle to continue in a warped way via a faceless internet BLOG. There is no system of verification of most of that which people write on this BLOG.
It is filled with hearsay and things like, ‘When I was in PBC Frank said this’, or ‘When I was in Ivy Hall, Dick said this’, or ‘I heard once that Wendell did this’. Those kind of comments tend to become less emphatic when addressed to the individual themselves.
I understand that ‘face to face’ confrontations and dialogues generally do not occur, nor are they profitable due to the control and manipulation of the powers that be, however, when it cannot be done, the answer is not to say it anyway into an unaccountable system of discussion, this BLOG.
Talk within your own community or fellow brothers and/or sisters, but I fear that this BLOG does not qualify as the right means of pseudo-therapeutic counsel or sharing.
In fact, the original intent was not a group counseling/sharing forum, but a paradoy and satirical judgement/exposure of the general Institutional Church as seen through the lense of City Bible Church.
Betty B’s ‘thanks’ to this BLOG is a prime example.
Stay funny and witty or SHUT IT DOWN.
(Now watch me get attacked instead of addressing the issues I posted)
Mr. Simpson
(Now watch me get attacked instead of addressing the issues I posted)
why would you say attacked? Because your opinion is not the same as others? you seem to think your in a power over position here you fail to see we are all equals is this body. Like it or not (brother) you are not any better then the rest of us, we are all sinners….. Justified by faith.
(It is filled with hearsay and things like) This is exactly what Gail and Eunice Bryan Said when we questioned them….
interesting to say the least!
Betty B
Karl When Jesus was speaking out against the corrupt abusers of the church , even going so far as turning over tables and running them from chuch grounds, i am quite sure you would be at the head of the line screaming ” He’s hateful, sowing discord, unforgiving, mean spirited, CRUCIFY HIM. Where else are people going to tell what happened to them? before this blog they had nowhere to go. They were alone “they thought” with their pain, driven from churches from people telling them not to talk about it. Shhhhh God will kill you. Shhhhhyou will bring shame on the church. Well the local churches have brought shame on themselves and if is not dealt with they will never reach the unsaved or maybe that is what they want because if they had to deal with a mass of people they wouldn’t know what in the hell to do with . They sure couldn’t minister to their pain. No they couldn’t play church anymore and i think that scares them. The church needs to be shaken until it wakes up. A revolutionary named Jesus Christ is coming soon and the church better stop acting like a buisness and start acting like a fefuge, a hostpital, a positive force in this world.
karl, terri, anybody else..
Nobody is twisting your arm to make you stay a part of this parachurch organization. Leave if you don’t like what goes on here. Take your hate and judgment and nastiness elswhere.
Those are people sharing their personal experiences with Frank and others and since I attended that church for two years, I know that what is being written on this blog is true and have also posted comments about my experiences at CBC including some “Frank said this” comments.
Face to face dialogue won’t happen because the pastors/leadership won’t allow it to. Either they are simply too busy or they just don’t want to confronted with the truth and held accountable and certainly do not want to change. This blog at least tells the truth of what kind of church these people are “selling”. It’s not right to just back down and quietly watch what they do to deceive people.
I agree that there is a problem when lies are being posted, but that’s not the case here.
karl barf said:So, I guess since we have City Business Church to help people critically dialogue and talk in order to get ‘healing’ and ‘freedom’ from City Bible Church, we are going to have to soon start a BLOG for those who are presently being manipulated and attacked and wounded by the ‘WITTY satire’ of City Business Church.
Then in another comment karl barf said:
Stay funny and WITTY or shut it down.
karl barf you said in your first comment that people were being manipulated, attacked and wounded by the “WITTY satire and then on your next comment said stay funny and WITTY or shut it down. Which one is it?
I agree with living life: Nobody is twisting your arm to make you stay a part of this parachurch organization. Leave if you don’t like what goes on here. Take your hate and judgment and nastiness elsewhere.
I really think you should start your own blog so you could show us how all of this really should be done. Or maybe you should just look up the meaning of the words WITTY and SATIRE in the dictionary. It seem like anytime anyone starts to loosen up and have a little fun around here someone like you comes along and throws a wet blanket on it.
I think healing can come from talking about it!
I just talked to an Vietnam vet yesterday. He said he didn’t talk about his experiences for years. He was one of those who was spat upon when he got back to the states and called a baby killer. He said when he finally was able to talk about it, it brought healing into his life!
You guys are digusting loosers!! Get over it, God gave everyone freewill and you chose to go to church. Gees what a bunch of loosers!!!!
Did he say looser lol? What a loooser
Good eye, M.9:42….What a hoot!!!!!!! Ha!Ha!Ha! Nothin beats funny and witty!!!LOL……
stupidperson: We are over it . I think that’s what irritates you.
digusting is this a word? lol…. did they want to say gusting booster’s lol ….what? I’m confused now. Free will we really have that? wow that great news. aah? I choose not to go to church any more. Dur!do you think I’ll get in big trouble. what do I do with all my tithes then? I’m scared!
I always think of this when seeing the title of this blurp, “I am bitter”
Perhaps the “for we are many” applies to all the disgruntled trolls who find our parachurch organization?
[Comment ID #28751 Will Be Quoted Here]
Get over it? Get over it? It’s people like you who need to get over it! You need to get over the fact that people aren’t going to be keeping their mouths shut about the false doctrines, and the hypocrisy that goes on. You need to get over the fact that people actually care about what goes on in the church.
By the way OJ is finally getting his exposure. People who go into denial and don’t get the help they need get exposed somewhere down the line, why because God cares. It’s just too bad for the disgusting looser peons who get in the way, sometimes they get their lives taken. Sometimes people can be spiritually shipwrecked because wolves come into the sheepfold and devour. Sometimes people don’t recover.
[Comment ID #28751 Will Be Quoted Here]
I’ve got news for you — we’ve all been stupid at one time or another.
The people here chose to go to church to get closer to God because God matters to them and they, we, thought that’s what church is for. We didn’t choose to go to church to get spiritually molested and abused by mean manipulative people. But I guess you wouldn’t understand that, would you, since your juvinile impatient mindset can’t possible sympathize with anyone unlike yourself. In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if you are an abusive person yourself and get some kind of sadistic pleasure hurling insults at people you don’t know. But I’m wasting my precious time here, since I’m sure you don’t understand a single word I’m saying since your are about 12.
So in a nutshell, you are just about as stupid as you think we are.
From one stupid person to another.