The Lord’s Prayer (Matthew 6:9-15)
Posted on September 16th, 2007 by Reformed Pope into the Reading Matthew categoryI read the Lord’s Prayer awhile after leaving City Bible Church and it really shook me up. I, of course, had read this scripture while at CBC but it didn’t mean anything (they sort of teach to read scripture but not to ask any questions about it). It wasn’t until I was out that I spent time pondering what it was all about.
As I mentioned before, in many of these mega churches, prayer is really nothing more than a shouting contest judged in about 3 categories: Length of Prayer, Loudness of Prayer (aka “passion”), and Style of Prayer (obscure scripture references, tears, southern accents, ending every sentence with the syllable “a”. For example: Lord-a, please bless this Tithe-a…” stuff like that). At the end of a prayer meeting, although there is no official score keeper, you know if you won or not.
Unfortunately, there are always the prayer warriors (contestants) who have no Style or Substance and try to stretch out there prayer by using one of the following words for every 2 actual “prayer words”: Lord, Father, Savior, God, Father-God, Jesus, Abba-Father (style points for that one), Jehovah, etc. The prayers end up lasting forever, but nothing is ever said. Anyway, this isn’t what I want to write about so I’ll move on.
This is the “Lord’s Prayer” as recorded in the 6th chapter of Matthew:
Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us today our daily bread. Forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.
Here’s the problem, at CBC we were taught that if we didn’t ask for what we wanted we would not receive it. We were taught that if we had enough faith we could have/do anything we wanted. Set your prayer goals as high as possible…of course there are scriptures to help back up all of these things and I don’t think they are necessarily wrong…but like every thing else there needs to be a balance and I believe that this scripture is that balance. Let’s break it down.
Our Father in heaven: I like the fact that Jesus said “Our Father”, I think it shows how much God loves each of us. Jesus is HIS SON, and he just as easily could have said “My Father” or just “Father” but instead Jesus chooses to show how God views all of us in saying “Our Father”…
Hallowed be your name: Here he gives honor to God, this is key I think. Let’s not forget who’s who in this life…We need God, He doesn’t need us.
Your Kingdom Come: I’m not entirely sure what He’s saying here, but maybe Jesus is saying “Let’s get this life over with so we can spend eternity together” or maybe He is saying “Bring your presence here to this earth”. Could be something else entirely, I don’t know.
Your Will be Done on Earth as it is in Heaven: This is it. This is the key to the whole prayer (imo). Here, Jesus submits to God. He acknowledges that it is far better to have God’s will than your own will being done. And He does it prior to asking for anything personal. This is the important balancing factor to “Faith” Prayers and your “Name it and Claim it” Prayers. We must always be willing to submit to the will of God. More on that later.
Give us today our daily bread: Not a huge request here. He isn’t asking for a fortune, He isn’t asking for Power, He isn’t asking for a Miracle, He just wants His daily bread. To me, “daily bread” represents the simple things in life that we need to survive…and this is after already telling God that we need His will to be done. If God doesn’t want us to have our “daily bread” so be it.
Forgive us our debts: Equally important, actually, now that I read it. Our debts of course are our sins and we need God to forgive us…constantly. This isn’t a one time “sinners prayer”, this is a prayer that we should say over and over. We need God to forgive us as much today as we will tomorrow. I think this is one of the biggest problems with American Christians today, they seem to think that 1) God works for them and 2) that we need God’s grace when we first get saved and then after that it is up to us to prove our worth. This, of course, is backwards thinking. God is in control…we are nothing.
As we have forgiven our debtors: Yes, City Business Church, you read that right: We must forgive those who sin against us just as much as we want God to forgive us. We’ve had a lot of debate back and forth about forgiveness. This really is another post for another day, but real quick, here is the dictionary definition of Forgive:
1. To excuse for a fault or an offense; pardon.
2. To renounce anger or resentment against.
3. To absolve from payment of (a debt, for example).
Part of the problem with the bloggers here is that they have been told that everything is their own fault. All their problems are their fault and not the fault of Church Leadership (or whoever). See Craig’s post on Doug Cotton’s last sermon for PROOF. Many are just now realizing that the Church was wrong and it is not their fault and that is why so many are out venting here…I think this is the first step to forgiveness…unfortunately it can also be the first step towards bitterness…it’s a fine line people, please be careful. Feel free to talk about and discuss your hurts, but there will come a time when you need to let it go.
And lead us not into temptation: This could be a whole other discussion, but let’s save it for later and just make a mental note that Jesus really did ask God to not tempt us. I find that interesting seeing as how many Christians want to blame Satan for every issue they have and maybe, just maybe Jesus is once again hinting at the fact that God is in complete control of everything.
But deliver us from the evil one: A great way to end your prayers. Deliver us from Satan. Though out this entire prayer, Jesus, keeps showing how much God is in charge. Yes, every Christian in the world will tell you that they know that, but how many of them act like they believe it?
Jesus does a great job of hitting some key points in a prayer and manages to do it in all of about 20 seconds of prayer time. He then gets back into discussing forgiveness (kind of a big point here) in the next 2 verses.
For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins. (Matthew 6:14-15)
For as much grace as we receive from God, we need to be sure to pass it on to others.
September 16th, 2007 at 4:46 pm
You have ably pointed out the difference between “Churchianity” and Christianity.
September 17th, 2007 at 1:34 am
This prayer came from the mind of Christ. In Him are all the treasure of wisdom and knowledge……Col. 2:3. As you study it, it keeps opening up more and more. There are, for instance, over 150 references to the ‘kingdom of God’ in the NT.
His short sentence of “Your kingdom come” can be a meditation of years. I guess that is what happens when the infinite speaks to the finite.
September 17th, 2007 at 3:42 am
Mike Herron, former music minister at old BT, once said that’s how he could tell the really anointed prophecies.
I also love it when they mix up the members of the Godhead and their work…”Father, we come to you, Jesus,” or, “Thank you, Father, for dying for us.”
And I, for one, am always particularly impressed when they use the original languages like “Jehovah-Jireh,” “El-Shaddai,” or “Yeshua.” As if God perks up a bit more when He hears the Hebrew and Greek.
I think you’re right. Whenever I repeat the Lord’s Prayer in the congregation, I usually think of these words like this : “Let Your Will be done in this hunk of earth”…Me! Once he gets me to do His Will, then that pretty much takes care of everything else.
This blaming-of-Satan thing has just got to be one of the most misconstrued areas in the Christian walk. I think we would be shocked if we could see our problems, sufferings, and unhappiness for what they really are — that in many instances they are self-induced, and are merely the inexorable consequences of previous decisions and choices we have made:
How many SPs have fallen into a similar line of thinking when attempting building projects? They always seem to view the slow going, lack of funds, opposition from the city fathers, difficulty in getting permits, etc., to be from the enemy. It seldom occurs to them that it may just be the Lord trying, in love, to hinder them from doing something that is not His Will, and from making a huge mistake which they will later regret.
Excellent insight, RP, with thought-provoking comments.
-joebib
September 18th, 2007 at 2:24 am
Luke chapter 11 has a slightly different ‘Lord’s prayer’. It leaves out the part about “deliver us from evil” (or evil one). However, I couldn’t help but notice a bit farther down, in verse :13 of chapter 11…..”if YOU then, being evil, ” (my caps on ‘you’)! Wow! I think Joebib has it right, we are the responsible parties for a lot of the misery and pain on earth today! Most likely because we are not doing God’s will. Keep me from the evil one, indeed!
September 18th, 2007 at 11:07 am
I agree that we have to a certain extent blamed Satan for some of our “fleshly faults”, but you can’t forget what Paul says in Eph. 6.
“Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might. Put on the whole armor of God that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.”
I do believe that this does give the believer some sense that Satan is to blame for some of the things going on in the world today. I think we have a tendency to swing one way or the other and not be level-headed about this. Either you totally believe that the devil is the reason behind all of our problems or he is not at fault at all.
September 18th, 2007 at 12:29 pm
I personally don’t think that Satan is responsible for hell on Earth. We are. Humans are stupid and selfish and we create hell for each other right here on Earth. And yes, I include myself in that “stupid and selfish” statement.
September 18th, 2007 at 1:19 pm
Now Thinking, if you are going to apply the City Business Church method to our conversation here, you have to do it exegetically (sp). Give me some scriptures that says that the reason the earth is the way it is today is soley because of human flesh.
September 18th, 2007 at 1:39 pm
We all make choices unless we are possessed. So yeah, if a bunch of possessed people are running around making the world miserable then I guess Satan is sort of responsible.
I am not going to give you Scripture. You went to Bible College, I did not. You can find Scriptures (or more likely not find them regarding this topic), better than I can. This sounds very trite and almost rude–I’m sorry I just don’t feel like amping out my post with “pretty” language.
Ultimately nothing can be proved one way or another. You can’t prove that there is a God anymore than an atheist can prove that there is not. I cannot prove that my former statement is true anymore than you can prove that it is not.
I don’t really like Bible Verse Banter–I think it is pretentious.
However, I appreciate the invitation to have a conversation.
September 18th, 2007 at 10:23 pm
One scripture I can think of, in Genesis 3, after Adam and Eve had eaten from the forbidden tree, :17 “cursed is the ground because of you”.
A larger issue perhaps, is the idea that Gad had given Adam and Eve the whole earth to ‘rule’ over. (Gen. 1:26 & 28) The rulership was contingent upon them not eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. When they broke this condition, the rulership fell to the one they chose to obey….satan took over the authority they had been given. (see Romans 6:16, you are slaves of the one whom you obey.) This is why satan could say to Jesus, “I will give you all this domain and its’ glory; for it has been handed over to me, and I give it to whomever I wish.” (Luke 4:6) See also what the apostle John says in 1 John 5:19, “We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.”
This also explains why I think it is wrong to say, “God allowed” such & such evil thing to happen. It is not His fault! We were sold out, and Jesus bought us back. It makes me cringe to hear preachers say, “God is in COMPLETE CONTROL!”…do they think there will be no change at all when Jesus returns and vanquishes His enemies? OK, there is my .02
September 21st, 2007 at 7:30 pm
In actuality Jesus Christ was telling his disciple he was NOT GOD, so don’t pray to me but pray to the heavenly Father. Jesus Christ said ‘our Father’ depicted he’s man in the same brotherhood of his disciple. Otherwise he should say, ‘I Jesus your God pray to me..’ but not so and addressed the Father humblely with honour, OUR Father means showing his brotherly relationship indirectly, a man to his followers.
Thy will be done is to submit in total obedient to the will of God the Holy Spirit, which none of us can but only by his great grace.
The daily bread is God’s spiritual TRUTH that can set the people free from
Satan’s bondages; and to fight spiritual warfare with the devil, standing on God’s the truth and the truth will set his people free.
And reminded us always to render all glory to God, Holy Spirit the Father and not to self, for all glory and power belongs to him; for man has no power and authority to fight the Satan. And many more other spiritual truths hidden in the bible are so well scriptured to deceive and trap Satan but instead man got deceived. Therefore we should read the bible with the help and guidance of the spirit of truth, the Holy Spirit and through his eyes we see the truth. This is God’s spiritual warfare strategies to destroy Satan’s evil works are the truths secretly written in the bible before earth was formed; see, God knows the end form the beginning and he forsee all this; he recorded the events in the bible even before things could happen, ways before Satan was cast out from his sight when he rebel against God for his throne and positon.
How awesome is our God and is he to be feared.
This is God’s teaching of the truth spoken by his end time prophet to us at God’s end time church. Please, please do not quick to judge I too learn this from God. Please go on your knee and to pray for understanding. Not by chance I read your articles.
September 23rd, 2007 at 4:00 am
derick said:
I can’t agree with your exegesis here, Derick. Simply because Jesus was a man, does not preclude Him from being God also, which is taught in both Testaments. Here is just one example:
If you wish, we could discuss this further.
Are you referring to yourself? And, where is this “end time church”?
-joebib
September 23rd, 2007 at 4:13 am
Derick,
I must take exception to you saying Jesus is not God.
Please read 1 John 2;22-25. Then report back, saying you have repented. This could be why you were led here.
September 23rd, 2007 at 6:13 am
[17] And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Know your English well. The Father said IN whom, not WITH whom, means the Father was well pleased to dwell in the body of Jesus Christ and work through him. Father did not said this to the first Adam and it will not be fair if he said this to the second Adam and not the first. Father was please in the body of Jesus whom he wanted to use.
IF Jesus is God why must he said Father Father why thou forsaken me? if he is God meaning to say God, God why did you forshaken God?
Again how can God -Jesus if God born from a sinful women, Mary? then God is no more holy
September 23rd, 2007 at 4:39 pm
The ‘ flesh ‘ here depicts the Spirit of God the Father came down from heaven and dwelled in Jesus at the River Jordon.And from then onwards Jesus got this title the Christ means the Anointing or anoited one refered to the Father. And who led Jesus Christ immediately to the wilderness to confront and battle with Satan? The Father not Jesus he has no power for the first 30year but after aunction at River Jordon the power of the Father came upon him led him to wage battle with Satan. And why? Satan did no sent the serpent as he did to the first Adam because he saw Adam had no match for him but instead he came in person to fight Jesus when he heard the loud voice from heaven declared the spiritual warfare had begun with the Father through Jesus, God’s champion. These are the spiritual truths the Father has to delcared to the world Jesus real status is man and NOT God. And still a man in heaven playing the role THE high priest and THE mediator for us. Your salvation is hanging on this truth, Jesus real status NOT God but man. Whether the world church belief or not it doesn’t concern God for this is spiritual warfare with Satan to destroy his evil and wicked work, in deceiving God’s people. And those who refuse and reject his truth is actually rejecting the Father and pledge allegiance with Satan. This is how the heavens’ dignitaries see by heaven laws and the Father is very serious and you might lose your salvation. I, a nobody in the eyes of God and an unworthy sinner; saved by the mercy and grace of the Father, bear witness of the truth. Please be prayerful over this matter and seek the Father for understanding before you judge. Anyway he already knows your end from the beginning but still he gave a last chance to change.
Thank you
2
God cannot procreate, spirit cannot give birth so are the angels in heaven and this is law of heavens’. Only human and the liviing things are created can give birth. So do you mean to say the heavenly Father give birth to a God and many others Gods through women and Christian worship them like the latest mother Theresa as God? Similar as the pagan and the unbelievers worship their gods?
September 26th, 2007 at 11:42 am
So ‘derick’ are you Jehovah Witness or Mormon or is your teaching something you have come up with from your own study?
The reason I ask is because from my understanding neithr Mormons nor Jehovah Witnesses believe Jesus was part of the Trinity. From what I understand they believe that Jesus was “a prophet” and was much like you or I.
I think that would help me understand where you are coming from. I know before I became a Christian I would read the bible and I would come up with all sorts of things I thought it was saying. Sometimes the Holy Spirit was speaking to me, other times I think it was from my own reasoning and lack of understanding. But I was truly searching and wanting to know what this life was all about and who God was.
‘Just Thinking’ - I do believe we need to study scriputre and understand what it is saying. But I also believe the Holy Spirit can and does speak to us through other mediums. My grounding in the Lord has mainly come through the scripture.
I think our understanding needs to come from scripture, which I am assuming you also believe, other wise we might as well just believe what we want to believe. But I think we can make things really complicated at times.
‘Former PBZer’, I agree with you I think we can go way to far to the other side, it’s not just either or but often times both.
At any rate who am I.
September 26th, 2007 at 11:51 am
Man joebib - you must have been to some strange prayer meetings! I have never heard of anyone praying to “Jehovah-Jireh or El-Shaddai, or Yeshua”. I have heard them say you are our “Jehovah-Jireh or El-shaddai” but never heard them pray to his attributes! Wierd.
September 26th, 2007 at 1:11 pm
Jesus Christ is the unique “Son of God”. John 1;14 declares that He “became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.” Jesus Christ reflected the power of God while on earth that no other man could ever achieve; “He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation” Colossians 1:15, not “first created”, but “firstborn”.
Colossains 1:16 & 17 states that He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation. For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities - all things have been created by Him and for Him, vs 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the first born from the dead; so that He Himself might come to have first place in eveything.
Luke 1:76 when Zacharias was filled with the Holy Spirit he prophesied that John the Baptist would be the called the prophet of the Most High; ho hupisistos, the Most High, spoken of God as dwelling in the highest heavens and as far exalted above all other things.
Another thought - Why would Jesus say - among those born of women there has not arisen anyone greater than John the Baptist, Matt. 11:11. Was he then saying that John the Baptist was greater than He, Jesus? I would think not.
In Luke 1:35 when Gabriel came to her (Mary) he said “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power to the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy offspring shall be called “the Son of God”, Huios in the greek his full title. Jesus is never used as teknon “a child of God” as we are refered to as believers.
September 26th, 2007 at 4:11 pm
derick –
Are you a follower of the late William Branham? If not, I’ll ask you again…who is God’s “end time prophet” and where is this “end time church?”
Inasmuch as you appear to have quite strong convictions concerning the Nature of God, as well as the Person of Jesus Christ, and it sounds like you believe you possess an understanding of the end times that many of the rest of us do not yet have, would you be so kind as to share with us, in plain words, to whom and to what you are referring?
Then, perhaps, we could have some meaningful dialogue.
-joebib
September 26th, 2007 at 9:46 pm
I am not from Jehova Witness or Mormon.
September 27th, 2007 at 3:17 am
How mysterious………….. Like joebib said: To whom and what are you referring?
September 27th, 2007 at 7:35 am
Anna,
Why do you say its wierd to pray to one of God’s Covenant names? It would be like calling someone by their full name instead of their nickname or calling someone by their nickname rather than their full name.
joebib,
Just a question, do you not like William Branham? Just want to know the reasoning behind your comment. I know he went a little cooky closer towards his death, but does that take away from the years of healings that the Holy Spirit performed through him? And as a side note, I don’t think any of us should be followers of any one person, rather followers of Jesus Christ. (I know you weren’t advocating either way, I just wanted to throw my two cents in regarding that.)
Prez
September 28th, 2007 at 3:40 am
annaLitical said:
Oh yeah.
Until you’ve been in one of those all-night “Holy Ghost” prayer meetings, the ones where, on your left side, some “anointed” person, usually one with
leadershipgodly aspirations — with one eye squinting on the Senior Pastor, and the other on you — has grasped you by the shirt, is rocking you back and forth and yelling in your ear so loudly you can’t even concentrate on what is being prayed, and is spraying spit all over you, all the while panting so heavily in between words that you think they’re about to have a heart attack, and on your right side, is some old, bespeckled grandma, who is usually very quiet, proper and unassuming, but this night is screeching non-stop in falsetto-glossolalia, like in those National Geographic shows where the natives are doing that shrill-thing with their tongues, and all the while the SP is looking on approvingly and saying, “yes Lord…get him, Lord”…well then, I submit you haven’t really lived-joebib
September 28th, 2007 at 4:39 pm
I really don’t know what you are talking about. I don’t even really know who William Branham is. I didn’t make any comment about William Branham. I think I’ve read a little about him but I’m no expert on Branham by any means. Wasn’t he like part of the “Latter Rain” movement? I can’t remember.
The reason why I made the comment to Joebib about the prayer meetings he attended - was just what I said. I have heard people announce “you our are Jehovah Jireh”, or “you are our El-Shaddai” or “Jehovah Nissi”. However my understanding of what Joebib said was people actually prayed - to Jehovah Jireh or to El-Shaddai, or to Jehovah Nissi. I always thought of them as to His attributes. I would not use those names to pray to God, nor have I ever used those names to pray to God. It just sounded very odd to me. Is my above understanding wrong?
September 28th, 2007 at 4:52 pm
Yes I have been to some to those meetings. Some people do get pretty intense I must admit. However I was actually in some renewal meetings and was ministered to and “I don’t think” I was caught up in my own emotion. I have also had private times of prayer when I was flat on my face drooling and very much in what I called or thought of as travail.
I have also been in meetings where they put the “a’s” on the ends of words. When I first became a Christian and there was open “prophetic” or as my husband puts it “pathetic” words they would say “Thus say’s the Lord”. I think it was the era, because I am not in many meetings where they practice that anymore.
Have any of you ever been to “World Map” camp meetings? There were some awesome times of the Holy Spirit moving in those camp meetings.
September 28th, 2007 at 4:55 pm
Oh what the heck, I’ve also been in some public meetings where I was flat on my face drooling and carrying on like I was some lunitic!
September 29th, 2007 at 12:28 am
Hey don’t get me wrong…I have been in plenty of those meetings and have actually been tremendously blessed many times. I don’t even think they’re necessarily unbiblical, per se, just so long, that is, as there’s no dog-barking, jumping off the podium, swinging on the chandeliers, bleeding, nor any other mosh-pit type of stuff going on
I was just saying that one doesn’t know what they are missing till they have gone through one of those emotional, gut-wrenching sessions, as they can get a bit comical at times.
I mean, after all, why do you think the disciples were accused of being drunken in Acts 2 in the Upper Room? The reference to “sweet wine” (gleukos) confirms that suspicion, inasmuch as, according to Greek scholars, this type of wine was especially potent, and wasn’t merely Welch’s, like many disingenuously hold.
Neither, it seems to me, was it because of them speaking in “tongues,” because the onlookers were hearing them proclaim the “mighty deeds of God” in their own (intelligible) languages.
No, I think the answer lies in the fact that the disciples were thought to be drunk because there must have been some pretty intense stuff going on that wonderful day.
-joebib
September 29th, 2007 at 1:26 am
Well, it’s been nearly a week and we haven’t yet heard back from Derick on a clarification of what he believes. I didn’t want to scare him off by going into anything more on Branham, but maybe he’s already bolted, so what the heck?
——————————————————————-
FormerPBCPrez said:
I chose my words carefully, and purposely used the term “follower.” William Branham still has quite a group of them, and Derick sounds like one — with the code words he used — though perhaps not.
You can google WB for a bio on him and what he believed. I’ve read most of his books (and even, in the unbridled boldness of youth, wrote a word of warning in a few of them on the title page, back in the day in the PBC library), and read what those who knew him and ministered with him have said, even talking to two of them personally.
I have come to the conclusion he started out as a genuine, anointed ministry from God, with quite a lot of supernatural signs, but later moved into doctrinal heresy, and went quite off the wall.
I still have much of his literature; his printed sermons are called “The Spoken Word,” and are annotated like scripture. His recorded audio messages are referred to as “The Voice Of God.”
I had a relative who attended one his shrines in Tucson for years, and so I got a lot of info on him from those in-the-know. Suffice to say, they had a picture of Jesus on one wall, and one of Branham on the other, with the services consisting of them listening to recordings of his sermons.
-joeb
September 29th, 2007 at 9:52 pm
Hi annaLitical!
you asked,
Yup! Went to their meetings at George Fox College in the mid-70’s, and was truly blessed. That’s where I was baptized in the Spirit (which for me was a private and quiet experience).
Thanks for stirring the memories
September 30th, 2007 at 5:39 am
Mr. Joebib,
Angel Gabriel told Mary that your son shall be NAME Jesus and he said he shall be CALLED son of God. At birth he was name Jesus and after the unction at River Jordon when the Spirit had descended upon him and dwelled in Jesus then he was called son of God that was when the Father had accepted and adopted him. But John the Baptist said I knew him not was not referring to his cousin Jesus; they were childhood cousin brother eat, play and lived together but John the Baptist was talking he knew not the Father. The SIGN was the Spirit dwell in that person then you will know my chosen one.
This event was foretold by Abraham at mount Moriah when he offer his son Isaac, a pre figurement of Jesus, as a sacrify but in actuality it was a landmark event, a dedication of Isaac to God. Abrahim in his obedient the Father accepted the child and from the lineage of Isaac’s seed the Father pick Jesus and adopted him and was called the son of God. Jesus was anointed and the epithet Christ was added to his name and is known named Jesus Chist. Heaven boomed with at loud voice, ‘this is my beloved son IN whom ( not with whom) I am well please’ the Father was please because of the prepared body of Jesus for him to dwelled in him and worked through him to destroye the evil work of Satan.
For example, If you has a adopted son, you will call him son of Joebid what more when God adopted Jesus as his son surely his son will call, son of God and nothing else. Do you know GOD the Father has two sons? One is Jesus and the other one is his endtime prophet. It is scriptural and can you tell me where is the scripture? We were taught on the subject the parabble of God. I tell you all this is because Iam a witness of God’s truth and his workings, nothing else. I tell when I hear from his endtime prophet yet hope you are humble to accept and judge not. Joebid you are so blessed to know the truth of God. When it stop coming then you will know you are not for the truth. Ask Holy Spirit to keep you and prepare your heart right with him to receive his truth not from man.
regards
September 30th, 2007 at 10:10 am
We will all be held accountable for our own salvation. I don’t think we can point any fingers at anyone else when we stand before God! And say they said, they told me, he taught me…etc… What the Lord has shown me is he is my counselor, his word is true and he will teach me everything I need to know. I need to seek him with my whole heart.
Its in the seeking that we find him.
I’m not talking about reading the latest book or listening to the hottest preacher….I’m saying on my knees searching the word crying out to God himself.
Jesus is your only way of salvation. He is the only way to God…
September 30th, 2007 at 1:33 pm
derick said:
Derick…please tell me…who is this end-time Prophet?
I am not aware of this Scripture. Would you please cite it for me?
What is his name, and where can he be found?
We agree on that Derick.
I believe we should compare everything to the Bible — to hold everything up against the light of the Scriptures to see whether it bears the mark of being genuine.
In the past, I used to put people, especially men who were strong father-figures, on a sort of pedestal, and when I would hear something being taught or preached by them, I took it as “Gospel Truth,” and pretty much swallowed it hook, line, and sinker, no questions asked, because of my deep admiration for them.
But sadly, I later found that many times, though these were good men with godly character, and had perhaps even been greatly blessed and used by God in their ministries, that they were not always correct in their interpretation of the Bible, and their doctrine was sometimes off.
I have now learned to submit everything that comes into my life, whether it is…
- something I have heard preached, or taught — even if it was done by a powerful and charismatic speaker,
- an prophetic utterance or apparent supernatural event,
- a conversation I have had,
- something I have personally experienced,
- information I have read in a book,
…to submit all to the authority of the Scriptures.
Even my own feelings and emotions — powerful and influential though they are — or that which appears to me to be logical, scientific, and rational — all of that — can end up betraying me if they are viewed through the jaded glasses of my own fallen nature and carnal reasoning.
Don’t forget, Derick, that those who crucified our Lord Jesus did so — as it were — with a Bible in their hands, and verily thought they were doing the work of God in punishing someone they felt was a blasphemer (see John 10:31-33 and John 11:50).
The safeguard lies, in my view, in making everything we hear, believe, and do bow to the authority of God’s Word.
-joebib
October 1st, 2007 at 2:13 pm
When Jesus was teaching His disciples to pray He was teaching “them” to pray. He was addressing them because they asked Him how “they” should pray.
When Jesus makes His request to the Father He uses “erotato” to ask as an “equal” on behalf of Himself or His disciples. When we make our requests it is as an “inferior” to a superior.
John 14:10 “Do you not believe that I am in (1722 Greek “in” mutual union of God & Christ) the Father, and the Father is “in” Me?” The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works.
John 14:11 “Believe Me that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me; otherwise believe on account of the works themselves.”
John 14:6 “I am the way and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me. “If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have “seen” Him.”
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said to him. “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and “We” will come to him, and make “Our” abode with him.”
Matthew 28:19 “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.
He is the triune God!
October 1st, 2007 at 2:27 pm
people I’m getting confused - some are addressing the wrong comments -ie. derick you addressed joebib on Gabriel, and formerpbzer you addressed me on Branham instead of joebib.
joebib - I understand what you are saying about the prayer meetings. I just thought the Jehovah Jireh etc. was different, if I understood where “you” (not formerpbzer) were coming from. It sounded like you were saying the people would pray using Jehovah Jireh etc.
October 1st, 2007 at 2:27 pm
Now I’m posting wrong!! Shoot!!
October 1st, 2007 at 2:31 pm
O.K. I wanted to make a seperate comment to you “anna”. So when you were at college “World Map” came? Did Rick Howard or Sam Sasser come?
October 2nd, 2007 at 3:13 pm
Hi annaLitical,
When I went to World Map, it was Ralph Mahony, Bob Mumford, and I think Derek Prince was there (? — can’t remember that one). It was the same group that later got deep into Shepherding, and then repented. But anyway, I just remember it as a time of being blessed by the Holy Spirit.
grace
October 2nd, 2007 at 5:02 pm
The moment you mentioned Jesus CHRIST -Christ is anointing or the anointed one it clearly indicates you are referring to the Father. True the Farther in Jesus is the Father’s power not Jesus. Jesus was born and named Jesus as declared by angel Grabriel and later, ’shall be call son of God’ true when Jesus was baptist at River Jordon when the Spirit in the form of dove descended upon him and dwell in him. And the Father declared loudly and openly that the spiritual warfare with Satan had begun showing his champion ‘this is my beloved son IN whom I am well PLEASE’
Meaning to say, the Father was please to dwell in Jesus’ body and can do his will and plan to his PLEASURE in the destruction of Satan’s evil work. It is by heaven’s law that either party to the contendion of the battle must declared. Yet I don’t hear the churches teach or preach about heaven’s law beside the ten commandment that also was wrongly misinterpreted.
October 2nd, 2007 at 6:50 pm
Two in one -two persons, the Father and Jesus dwell in one body. Always remember to apply the TWO IN ONE principle truth, called the Maxim.
Jesus one body was a 100% sinless yielded vessel in whom and another body the Father is holy and sinless was well please to indwelled in that body and used him, by law is allowed because Jesus is the Father’s adopted son. And was given the epithet CHRIST the anointing or anointed one-the Father, and throughout his whole ministry he was Jesus Christ.
And from there onward, the understanding is all the spoken word of declarations of judgment, prophacy, counsel, advice, commandment and the act of workings in healings, miracles, signs and wonders were by the Authority of the Father’s power and might. Not Jesus man no power and might but a yielded flesh.
Jesus a yielded man, flesh has no power what more Authority but he allowed the Father to use. Don’t go by your emotions and sentiment Jesus died a terrible death for us so he must be God and worthy of worship to respect him all these are rubbish; the devil’s doctrine because Satan wanted the throne of God and his position but failed. To mock at God he device this dark teaching to churches Jesus ‘ sinless therefore he must be God. And the churches bought the devil’s ‘great idea.’ To make matter worst apostle Thomas, the greatest doubter, address Jesus, ‘my lord and my God’ therefore Satan had a ground to ask for another contest; it took more than two thousand years for the church to change but instead got more corrupted and God cannot use man /church with the dark doctrine.
And the end time battle was called for. That’s why Satan has a field day running the world churhes which the Father termed them as the dark church and is rejected.
REMENBER ALL SPOKEN WORDS OUT OF JESUS CHRIST’S MOUTH WERE THE FATHERS’.
By heaven’s law Father is sinless and he must leave Jesus’ body so that Jesus can carry the sins of the world and to die to fulfill the law.
For the first time, Jesus, NOT the Father, spoke his last words,’Father, Father why thou have forsaken me.’ and from then onward Jesus carried the sins of the world and he suffered grievous pain. Before that when the Father was in Jesus’ body he could withstand the 39 struck of whippings and carrying of the huge cross. So all this while it was the Father’s word and works until when God leaves Jesus’ body then Jesus by heaven’s law must declared, ‘It is finished’ This another scripture proofs Jesus is man not God.
At the start it is difficult but as you continue to read the spoken words out of Jesus Christ’s mouth is the Father’s then you will find the truth begin to fall into right place just like the jigsaw puzzle it fits very well.
October 3rd, 2007 at 3:03 pm
You are not giving me scripture references. Where does it say that Jesus was God’s adopted Son? When I talk about Jesus Christ I am clearly not referring to the Father I am talking about Jesus.
You say that they are two in one and yet you say the Holy Spirt dwelled in Jesus that sounds like more like three.
And I clearly am buying into the fact that Jesus Christ died for my sins and He was sinless.
You are clearly without scripture basis in what you are saying and I find that if you continue on in your thinking you will clearly miss the eternal blessing that the Father has in store for us in Christ Jesus.
October 3rd, 2007 at 11:56 pm
Why doesn’t someone just come out and say it …….. Derick we can’t understand a word you are saying. Please knock off the double talk and speak clearly! People are bending over backwords trying to understand you. They truly are wanting to know where you are coming from. Are you wanting to be understood or are you just jerking their chain?
October 5th, 2007 at 8:11 pm
No Kidding! I really can’t understand anything derick is saying. Where the heck did you come up with this sfuff. I was even thinking he might be a satanist for all I know. That’s harsh but what the heck is he saying!
October 5th, 2007 at 9:24 pm
do you really CARE what derek is saying? I do not
October 7th, 2007 at 6:04 am
none of you have any truth and so am I.
But what you heard is the truths and it’s from the Holy Spirit our Father’s only God has the truth but man has no truth. Man’s doctrines are based on mindpower of believe, view and opinions, traditional emotional and sentiment that are have no scriptural proof. That explained why there are more than 250 denomination churches in the world today. God’s plan and purpose is one church, one truth and one God.
No scriptural proof example -Jesus was one of the triune God, son, and he loves man and volunteered to come down from heaven. A seed enter into Mary’s womb and Jesus became the incarnated body of God. There is no scripture to back up then it is fantasies a make believe theory.
If Jesus is God then why must he go to River Jordon to be baptisted by his cousin brother John the Baptist? He need not have to receive the unction because he already a God. If Jesus is God ,how can God allowed John the Baptist to lay hand and prayed that God to be emdowed to a promotion to be God? What sort of theory is this that holds no water?Christian is dumb and had bought such foolish teaching. By law of the letters God cannot be subjected to earth’s law it is wrong God is above the law.
I won’t tell you anymore. It was said by Jesus your god not mine, ‘don’t cast a pear before a pig’. You know how a pig behaves? Sorry I had to be blunt. But the funnier part one guy wrote and say, ‘thank you for he don’t mind’ when I said there is not scriptural backing that Jesus was incarnated God
Do you know what damages can this type of preachers do to the souls of the people? They are recruiting souls to hell and Satan is laughting and mocking at God saying not only he had accused the Father unfaired in the contest that God’s champion is sinless and was God and confirmed by apostle Thomas called Jesus, ‘my lord and my God’ but your churches Christian also accusing Jesus is God. Satan had a case against God and God had to give in for another battle, the end time battle. This was due to the failure of the apostles and the churches.Therefore God cannot use the Church and Christian but the end time reapers are angels of God and the preacher is God’s end time prophet.
October 7th, 2007 at 10:07 am
Matthew 1:18 This is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about; His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but (before the came together, she was found to be with child (through the Holy Spirit.
you can read on and see that God appeared to him in a dream and stated again she was impregnated by the Holy Spirit.
His name is Immanuel (God with us)…
Also our own medical science tells us our babies carry the blood of the father not the mother. the mother and baby’s blood never mix they are separate.
thus… Jesus’ blood came from the Holy Spirit (God) God in the flesh!
the blood that was slain, pure, without sin, Holy from the father God.
There are a lot of scriptures that tell us Jesus was God in the flesh.
Father Son and Holy Spirit, the three parts to one God
Body sole and spirit. the three parts of me.
the truths of the word are revealed in secret to those who believe, threw the witness of spirit by the Holy Spirit.
derick you are deceived.
October 7th, 2007 at 10:17 am
derick said; more than 250 denomination churches in the world today. God’s plan and purpose is one church, one truth and one God.
We all might have a different last name too and be members of different families, races etc. but we are all members of the human race.
God’s church is made up of believers not denominations its a matter of the heart..
We are all born again spiritually into the family of God. by our faith in Jesus
October 7th, 2007 at 12:21 pm
Derick –
I’m not at all certain that you are open to hearing what the Bible actually teaches concerning the truth of the Deity of Jesus Christ. But, on the outside chance that you are, rather than cite a list of the many Old and New Testament passages which prove this fact beyond any reasonable doubt, I will reply with only one Scripture:
No other verses are necessary, for in these few words is sounded the death knell to all that is taught by the Jehovah Witnesses, the Mormons, and even to your position, Derick. Neither does this verse require further comment nor explanation, for it’s simplicity can readily be seen and understood by all. To attempt to deny what this verse plainly states, is to conclude that words no longer have meaning, and that we are thus condemned to never knowing anything of what the Bible says.
If one persists in denying the Deity of Jesus Christ after reading this verse, then there is no other option than to conclude that they have positioned themselves under the judgment of 1 John 4:1-3. Harsh words, but true.
Now, Derick, in regard to your repeated allusions to this enigmatic person whom you refer to as the “end-time prophet,” no one around here, AFAIK, is buying it.
[If you have convinced anyone, then let them please come forward and say so, and I will retract what I have said.]
Why do I say this? Because you’ve been asked far too many times to divulge his identity to us, and yet, you still refuse to tell us his name.
Thus, the only conclusion that can be drawn is that you have lied, and he does not exist.
Also, Derick, one of two things has become patently clear: 1) either English is not your first language (which would help explain why you have misinterpreted the Scriptures), or, 2) you are attempting to muddy the waters as to what you really believe, with all the obscure double-speak and innuendo.
Several people here have asked you, more than once, to tell us plainly where this “end time prophet” of yours is, but you continue to refuse to comply. NTTABT, in and of itself, for it does end up serving the purpose of proving you are obviously trolling, and thus, your words are not to be taken seriously. I wonder if this bothers you.
Furthermore, the Bible declares that in the Last Days, the earth will be virtually replete with prophets:
I know of only one Prophet whom Scripture specifically names as slated to appear in the End of Time. That would be Elijah, as promised in Malachi 4:5-6.
However, if Elijah was already here in the person of your “end-time prophet,” we would have already heard of him, for God would surely want us to know who, and where, he is.
IF I AM WRONG, PROVE ME SO, AND…TELL…US…WHO…HE…IS.
-joebib
October 8th, 2007 at 1:16 pm
I thought I had better give it a chance. You never know when God wants to break through. There were times before I was saved someone would say something that made me stop and think. Hopefully something was said here that made derick stop and think. Maybe not.