NYCC…an off Wall Street Production
Posted on November 5th, 2007 by Reformed Pope into the N.Y.C.C. categoryI received this excellent email quite awhile back. I hadn’t done anything with it because I wanted to do a bit more research before posting something. Well, the time has come to post…
Thought you might be interested in the attached email that I recently received from my former church. "Grand Opening Kick-Off" sure sounds
strange to my ears in conjunction with beginning a church, but, then, I guess it is a Business Church. Perhaps more interesting, I went to
the NYCC web site to see if they had a web page on this Grand Opening, and it appears on brief perusal that all mention of Wall Street has disappeared from the web site. They are apparently meeting in a theater somewhere. Lots of church plants meet in theaters, so that isn't notable in and off itself. It is just that I just looked back at the fund-raisingletterspam and there is all that blah, blah, blah about God providing the Wall Street facility miraculously and about how they are asking for funds so that the "men and women of Wall Street" can hear the Good News.Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2007 22:15:21 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: NYC Church Grand Opening Event
Here is a copy of the email sent out. The names have obviously been changed:
New York City Church Grand Opening Kick Off
——————————————————Greetings,
If you attended that "Eternity" presentation last [year] presented at [Doe] Church, you may remember that they were planning to open a church in New York City.They are finally getting ready to open their new church and if you are interested in supporting them and being a part of their Grand Opening Kick Off please
contact [Doe] Church and let us know that you would like to take part.There has been some interest in taking one of our vans and taking a trip to New York City from some of our church members. This can only happen if we have enough interest.
Date for the Kick Off is Sunday, October 14th. There will be activities going on October 12-14. Friday October 12th at 7:00 PM will be Battery Park Outreach Downtown Prayer Walks through the area, pass out touch cards/flyers, and invite people. Saturday, October 13th 11:00 AM Battery Park City Outreach Downtown; 5:00 PM Dinner Break;7:30 PM Prayer Meeting and Sunday, October 14th at 10:15 AM is the Grand Opening
Sunday Service.
If you are interested in being a part of this weekend activity or for more information
please contact [Jane Doe] at [Doe] Church.
It's not entirely clear to me yet why the are not meeting on Wall Street…I don't know if we should blame God, SPES, or a lack of Surplus Faith for the reasons they are stuck meeting in a theater miles away from Wall Street. At least they had enough sense to change their website…of course had I donated to them I might want a refund…
One last thought: Considering SPES's questionable past in regards to the Eternity Production, how does this latest "change" make him look?
RSS feed for posts
November 5th, 2007 at 10:45 am
S S D D ??
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
same shit, different day
November 5th, 2007 at 12:44 pm
Basically, you’re saying they are meeting in a theater, because their “Wall St. Building” fell through.
This is a good thing and it’s how they should have formed their church in the first place.
But I’m still very skeptical that it is going to work out. This church plant doesn’t seem to be very well thought out. And trying to start a church in the most expensive location in the US with an inept pastor… well, it doesn’t bode well for the future of this church.
But hey, what do I know… other than that this is going to end poorly.
November 5th, 2007 at 3:38 pm
Anybody else notice that their “team” has shrunk? I don’t remember who all was listed on their site in the beginning but I know there are some names missing now.
November 6th, 2007 at 10:22 am
A short time after pf took the reins of cbc, it became evident, at least within the CBSchool staff, that the school was not of any priority to him. It was more like a thorn in the side of his goals and ambitions.
Well, that has progressed to its actual culmination. It was recently announced to the school staff, that as the end of next year the church will withdraw any further financial support to it. The CBSchool will either sink or swim on its own. Look out Ed M!, your job may well be on the line. It seems like a “chlidren’s and young people’s ministry be damned” attitude is prevelant here.
To many of the oldtimers of days gone bye, that school was a very important part of their children’s lives and the Church. Its priority was very high on the list of the old Church”s mission. It’s incomprehensible that this is happening. How can it be?
Well! Missions and goals change as leadership changes. Where once was a Godly and humble leadership that cared for the people under its leadership, there is more of a “I don’t care what the people think.I will do as I damn well please,” attitude.
Should self-centered, egotistical kingdom building take precedence over nurturing of families and children within the church membership.??? Is it okay to take from the kid’s school funding in order to purchase outside expensive realestate ??? —– ——– ——-.(fill’em in)
Recent discussion with some of the old diehard members of CBC paints a picture of restlessness and dissapointment in the way that pf is spending the Church’ money. Some are now starting to vote with thier wallets and debit cards. It was reported to that tihting there is down 50% of what it was before. Maybe they can blame it on the economy, huh!
A short time ago someone on this blog asked, “When is enough, enough? Where will it all end ???”
Stick around. If the status quo is maintained there, it will be interesting, to say the least.
November 7th, 2007 at 7:40 pm
Vans full of supporters from CBC to go to NYCC for its kick-off? I remember how lots of people drove from Everett, WA. to the grand opening of a church in Vancouver several years ago to bolster the pastor and his wife and to wish them God’s blessing. The first service was good enough, but the church folded shortly afterwards. Obviously, making a church a success is much more than Madison Avenue would counsel the opening of a carnival or a new local mocha shop. I wish Ed and team better than this.
A reliable source told me, as I reported earlier, that the Vancouver campus was 1 or 2 million in arrears. If this is true, my guess is that Frank is feeling the pinch and is now taking drastic actions to maintain his vision of the 9 simulcast campuses by cutting back home church programs: the school(s), possibly the recent City Publishing layoffs, the staff paying for more of their own medical insurance, etc.
I think that the word about dynastic kings may apply to some senior pastor-kings, too. Note all of the times that the inspired author uses the phrase “he will take your…” in the following verses from I Samuel:
10 Samuel told all the words of the LORD to the people who were asking him for a king. 11 He said, “This is what the king who will reign over you will do: He will take your sons and make them serve with his chariots and horses, and they will run in front of his chariots. 12 Some he will assign to be commanders of thousands and commanders of fifties, and others to plow his ground and reap his harvest, and still others to make weapons of war and equipment for his chariots. 13 He will take your daughters to be perfumers and cooks and bakers. 14 He will take the best of your fields and vineyards and olive groves and give them to his attendants. 15 He will take a tenth of your grain and of your vintage and give it to his officials and attendants. 16 Your menservants and maidservants and the best of your cattle [b] and donkeys he will take for his own use. 17 He will take a tenth of your flocks, and you yourselves will become his slaves. 18 When that day comes, you will cry out for relief from the king you have chosen, and the LORD will not answer you in that day.” I Samuel 8:10-18, NIV
November 8th, 2007 at 9:40 am
David said,
Have you been at the Butte lately? It’s like a morgue. It’s really sad.
November 10th, 2007 at 7:08 pm
anna said: ave you been at the Butte lately? It’s like a morgue. It’s really sad.
anna: no, i haven’t been there for quite some time; may i ask, what exactly do you mean by a morgue? do you mean a hollowness in the atmosphere due to overemphasis upon money; the growing distance between frank and the flock; a deadness in the worship, etc. i’m curious as to what you have in mind… thanks
November 11th, 2007 at 5:25 pm
David… what I meant by a morgue is: When you walk into the lobby, the carpet is gone and the floor is all grey. Then when you go into the auditorium (I don’t call it a sanctuary any more), the back rows of all the center sections are gone, so it feels really empty. Even worse, they only light the front half of the auditorium, so the back is all dark and gloomy. In any given service, there are LOTS of empty seats. That’s just the physical aspects that make it feel morgue-y.
The worship is the one redeeming quality. There are many, many people there who really love the Lord, and when they worship, the Holy Spirit is there. But then it’s over and the transition person usually says something to the effect of, “Isn’t God good? Let’s see if we can get Him to give us something.” And then the perky announcement video starts, followed by the “As I give in today’s offering…” blah, blah… and the emptiness returns.
Unfortunately, the sermons are pretty lifeless as well and you leave feeling as if the system tried to suck out whatever life you have, rather than filled by a fountain that should be (and used to be) there.
As I said, it’s really sad.
November 11th, 2007 at 5:38 pm
anna…
Definitely sad to see what BT/CBC has/is becoming. Despite all the sadness, mistrust, spiritual abuse, etc…. I still have some fond memories of my 20+ years there….
Many biological families seem to disintegrate over the years too…. more sadness.
So do you still attend there? If you do, what is the impetus that keeps you going? I just ask as by your description it sounds you still do attend.
November 12th, 2007 at 9:14 am
anna…thanks for sharing what you meant by morgue-like. it gives more vivid reasons for prayer.
November 12th, 2007 at 2:43 pm
Dear LL, I can’t attend anymore because I’m not in agreement with the leadership. That’s what I was told. Well, I mean there’s no guard at the door, but I am not allowed to be a part of anything on any level.
But I still love the church and have friends there, so I visit every so often. Since I still pray for the church, it gives me a chance to see if anything has changed.
November 12th, 2007 at 3:45 pm
Did a google search and found this web info:
Looks like they are meeting at the Embassy Suites Hotel. It is just a block from ground zero. The “Grand Opening” (first service?) was Oct 14th so they have been going for about a month now.
I also found on Eddy’s Eternity website a new address for him…
Eternity Production International
87 Harris Lane
Staten Island, NY 10309
503-351-3910
If you google this address it appears to be in a residential neighborhood on Staten Island. According to zillow.com it is a 2153sf home with an estimated value of $448,658
November 13th, 2007 at 5:35 am
I bet he’s renting. I think his original home purchase fell through.
If he actually pulls this out and builds a successful church, I’ll be pretty impressed.
November 13th, 2007 at 9:30 am
anna said: Dear LL, I can’t attend anymore because I’m not in agreement with the leadership. That’s what I was told. Well, I mean there’s no guard at the door, but I am not allowed to be a part of anything on any level.
anna…I think that there would be many of us who would be interested in hearing your story…
November 14th, 2007 at 12:36 am
Ditto.
-joe
November 14th, 2007 at 3:44 pm
David… can you post your email one more time? I wouldn’t mind telling you my story, but I don’t want to take up blog space to do so, since a lot of it is outside the parameters of this blog.
And joebib… do you and David correspond? If so, he can forward it to you.
Thanks, guys.
November 14th, 2007 at 4:23 pm
anna said: David… can you post your email one more time?
anna…my email address is: davidmackin@intheworld.org; i will take my email security down to a lower level for the next while in order to get your email since i have it set up to only receive the addresses i have in my address book; yes, joebib and i correspond…