ORU
Posted on November 14th, 2007 by joebib into the Politics categoryJust came across this article in USA TODAY:
ROBERTS RECEIVES "NO CONFIDENCE" VOTE
TULSA (AP) — Embattled Oral Roberts University president Richard Roberts, facing accusations he misspent university funds to support a lavish lifestyle, has received a vote of no confidence by the tenured faculty at the evangelical university.
The resolution was approved by faculty Monday and obtained late Tuesday by the Associated Press. Faculty plan to distribute the non-binding document to the school's Board of Regents and the faculty assembly at an upcoming meeting.
Donald Vance, a professor of biblical languages and literature who voted with the majority, said the vote by a quorum of faculty was "nearly unanimous," but he declined to give the exact tally.
"It's essentially how the university has been run," said Vance, who has taught at the 5,700-student school for 13 years. "We see the Board of Regents as allies wanting to do the right thing, but we're not sure they know everything and we're not sure they knew how the faculty felt."
Jeremy Burton, a spokesman for Oral Roberts University, declined to comment on the vote Tuesday.
Accusations of lavish spending were detailed in a wrongful termination lawsuit filed Oct. 2 by three former ORU professors. The lawsuit includes allegations of a $39,000 shopping tab at one store for Richard Roberts' wife, Lindsay, a $29,411 Bahamas senior trip on the university jet for one of Roberts' daughters and a stable of horses for the Roberts children.
In a recent interview with the Associated Press, Richard and Lindsay Roberts denied wrongdoing. Richard Roberts has said the lawsuit amounted to "intimidation, blackmail and extortion."
Tulsa attorney Gary Richardson, who filed the lawsuit against ORU on behalf of the former professors, said he was "encouraged" to see that steps are being taken to preserve the university.
"When we filed the suit, I said I really personally believe that this lawsuit is very much like surgery," Richardson said Tuesday. "When there's disease in the body, sometimes it requires surgery in order for there to be healing."
Last week, Iowa Sen. Chuck Grassley announced a Senate investigation into whether six televangelists violated their organizations' tax-exempt status by living lavishly on the backs of small donors.
The Robertses were not among the six. But those targeted include three members of the school's Board of Regents: Creflo Dollar, Kenneth Copeland and Benny Hinn.
-joebib
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November 14th, 2007 at 5:43 am
That’s good to see. I’m glad some churches are capable of holding themselves accountable.
I recently came accross this group called the Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability . They have a Best Practices statement that all churches must follow. Who knows how well they actually enforce their standards, but still the idea of accountability is a step in the right direction.
November 14th, 2007 at 7:47 am
I looked at the ECFA web site. I think it’s an excellent idea, but I can already tell you that CBC would NEVER be able to comply with even their 7 standards.
1. Doctrinal Statement - It’s the church version of a corporate vision statement. No problems there.
2. Financial Oversight - AS IF! PF makes all the final decisions and has no oversight.
3. Financial Statements - Someone would probably need a court order to get an independent CPA to look at their books.
4. Use of Resources - Having staff and interns do the chores of higher-ups is not a good use of resources.
5. Financial Disclosure - Again, you’d probably need a search warrant to see the books at CBC.
6. Conflicts of Interest - How many times has PF thrown business to Gateway Communications? The most notorious incident was when they encouraged people to
work for freevolunteer for Nashif’s political campaigning.7. Fund Raising - Ah yes, they break it down, so let’s do that too!
7.1 Truthfulness in Communication - Who is to say?
7.2 Donor Expectations - “God will bless you more than you can contain if you give us money. For reals!”
7.3 Donor Intent - How much of the “Forward Together” money actually went to paying down the debt?
7.4 Unrelated projects - I wonder how many people realize their tithing and gifts support the school and college? Or that they also subsidize the publishing company? Or PF’s money tree, aka “Eternity”?
7.5 Incentives and Premiums - Just what exactly is the face value of “God will bless you more than you can contain”?
7.6 Financial Advice - Have you ever heard PF or any of his cronies advise people to get financial advice before giving sacrificially?
7.7 Percentage compensation for fund raisers - PF hired a consultant who got paid a percentage to raise money for “Forward Together”, if I’m not mistaken. I wouldn’t doubt that they have paid other guest speakers in this manner.
7.8 I can’t comment on this one
7.9 Conflict of Interest on Royalties - How much money have PF and SPES made off the backs of donors and volunteers to produce “Eternity”???
7.10 Can’t say
7.11 Acting in the interest of the donor - Asking anyone to give “sacrificially”, to the point where they can’t pay bills, rent, etc. is not working in their best interest.
And we haven’t even gotten to “Best Practices”.
November 14th, 2007 at 12:05 pm
This is indeed an encouraging sign that justice may be served up where it’s most needed. Vindication to all the “small donars” and large ones alike whether they know they need vindicated or not!
November 14th, 2007 at 1:10 pm
FICM: thanks for sharing some of the details from the ECFA’s website! Good comments, too!
It’s a great site, isn’t it? I agree with you, there is no way that ministries like City Bible Church would ever be willing to submit to such rules. Apparently, Pat Robertson’s, Christian Broadcasting Network is an active part. If I remember correctly, a church or ministry must keep their membership current in the ECFA. I think they have a list on their website of past members.
To City Bible members: If you are concerned about the way that Frank has taken your church financially, here is a great idea for you. Get a group together of concerned CBC members. Read through all of the ECFA’s website. Take notes of the important points that you think City Bible should take more seriously. Write up a letter, all of you sign it, and send it to Frank and all of the elders at the same time. Then, request a follow-up meeting to discuss the possibility of City Bible joining the ECFA! After you have the meeting, come back and tell us what happened…
November 14th, 2007 at 1:22 pm
RE: ORU…While I was teaching at PBC, I mentioned to Ken Malmin, the academic dean, about reading the book, Ashes to Gold by Patti Roberts with Sherry Andrews (Word Books, 1983). In response to my comment, he shook his head in disgust and said that he couldn’t believe why Patti could write such a book. Ken had attended ORU himself at one time, but I don’t think that he graduated.
According to the book, Richard Roberts divorced Patti Roberts with the encouragement of his dad, Oral Roberts, because Patti did not fit in and questioned some things about Oral Roberts’ ministry. I could relate some of the contents of the book right now, but I don’t have the time, so I highly recommend it as great reading for both men and women who want to begin to have their eyes opened to what goes on behind the scenes of many of the big, money-making ministries. I lied. I can’t resist; here is one paragraph (p. 127):
“With my departure from the show, almost all communication between Richard and me had ceased. I was treated more and more like an outsider, someone who could not be trusted. In a way, I think both Richard and Oral were relieved by my decision - Richard because our domestic tension was eased when I was out of the country, and Oral, because I increasingly questioned his operations.”
November 14th, 2007 at 3:02 pm
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/v/R9z2ELaBVJY&rel=1]November 14th, 2007 at 3:40 pm
Hi Mr. Mackin,
It will be a good idea! But I doubt they will take it, somehow they always
find a way to discourage people to question their leadership.
E!
November 14th, 2007 at 8:26 pm
I’ve been reading this blog for a few months now, and having had the distinct (dis)pleasure of having attended ORU for one year (spring and fall semester 2004) and having served as a leader in one of the City Church’s plants in California for 3 years, I finally felt moved to contribute to the fray.
I came to The City Church (one of the campuses not in Seattle) right after I graduated high school. I was pretty disillusioned from my childhood church experience, which took place in an old school Pentacostal church. I had always heard horror stories about those evil charismatics, and though I wasn’t initially comfortable with what seemed to me to be a fixation on money, I eventually conformed to City Church thinking on the subject, and it was a good thing for me at the time, when I was coping with some major life changes. I served in the youth for three years and formed some really great relationships. It was the perfect rebellion to what I viewed as the stifled religious experience I knew as a child.
After a few years, I was itching to do something more with my life. I had a good job and a new car and I was mostly happy, but I didn’t feel like I was doing enough for God. I felt like I was being called to the ministry, so I started making plans to do the internship in Seattle. My pastors didn’t think it was the right thing to do, so I didn’t go. Instead, they suggested ORU. I went to the College Weekend and really enjoyed myself. I knew that I would really love to attend that school, but I also knew that I couldn’t afford to attend ORU. When I informed the pastor that I was not going because I couldn’t afford it, he adamantly insisted that I do whatever it took to get there, including taking out as many loans as it took to cover the fees. My pastor was so confident that I was doing God’s will that he vowed to help me pay for my schooling if the money didn’t come through divine means. This individual could certainly afford it, but I would have never dreamed of asking him for a single red cent. I was very flattered that he was so interested in my future, and he WAS my pastor so I felt obligated to obey him… Plus, I really wanted to go and become another amazing miracle story that every other person at ORU seemed to be, so I took his advice. Big mistake.
I took out all the loans I possibly could, got some scholarship money, and received some gifts from supportive people back home, which got me through my first semester. My second semester didn’t work out so well. I obtained all of the financial aid I possibly could and still fell really short of what I needed to finish the year. So I called the pastor because I was looking for some encouragement. I told him of my predicament; he simply stated that if I didn’t have the money, I should go home. There was no fiery “hang in there” speech. I did not ask him to make good on his earlier promise that he would help me. Maybe I should have. He had left the church plant to take a job in the City Church in Seattle right around that time, so I thought maybe he had just moved on.
So I stayed for the fall semester, and after giving it a lot of thought, I decided to go back home instead of continuing on at ORU. I had already lost my car back home (my dream car) and had also fallen behind on other financial obligations. I started looking closer at what I was paying for with all the loans I was taking out, and figured out that I wasn’t getting my money’s worth. Ironically, it was an ORU professor who gave me my wake up call. To paraphrase her sage wisdom, God gave us a brain so that we would use it. And my brain was telling me to get the heck out of there.
I saw the pastor a couple more times when he came back to my home church for a visit. The second time I made every possible effort to talk to him about what happened, and he avoided me like the plague.
Now with all the crap that’s going on at ORU, it makes me even sicker to know that the money that I working for to pay off these loans went to a school that grossly misuses it. The Roberts’ extravagance has not been by any means a secret on the campus, but the lengths to which it extends has been hidden because of the seed-faith indoctrination that every student is subject to.
I even worked briefly for the Abundant Life Prayer Group, which is made up of some terribly earnest people, but I couldn’t stomach transitioning from every request for prayer to a sales pitch for a seed-fath gift. They still don’t even provide a toll free number for that prayer line.
Every ORU student is told from the moment they step foot on that campus that they are there for a reason and that they should do ANYTHING and EVERYTHING it takes to stay there because if they don’t they are outside of God’s will. I bought it. If I had a nickel for every time I heard an ORU student say “I can’t afford to be here” I could actually afford to attend ORU!
I am 24, so I have plenty of time to work off my school debt. I’ve moved on. But I won’t forget.
Thanks for reading.
November 15th, 2007 at 7:02 am
Now with all the crap that’s going on at ORU, it makes me even sicker to know that the money that I working for to pay off these loans went to a school that grossly misuses it. The Roberts’ extravagance has not been by any means a secret on the campus, but the lengths to which it extends has been hidden because of the seed-faith indoctrination that every student is subject to.
Great story.
I wonder if you (and the countless other students of ORU) could file a class-action suit against the school. You probably wouldn’t get much money in return, and you would likely only make the attorney who filed the suit rich, but still, fun to think about.
And I wouldn’t worry about the debt. It sucks. But school loans are pretty easy to pay off, as they usually have a low interest rate. (I’ve got tons of students loans myself). You pay it off best you can, and chalk it up as a good experience. And at least you went for it. It didn’t work out, but you tried. So good for you.
November 15th, 2007 at 7:41 am
DC: thanks for sharing this part of your life with us; i read your words with much interest; i’m sorry to hear how things turned out for you; it’s tough when one’s spiritual leader lies about something: over-promises and under-delivers. i wish you God’s best and hope that you hang around some more on the blog and share some more with us. some of the lessons about leadership that you have learned by age 24, i didn’t learn until much later. God has a plan. Follow your heart. Blessings to you! -David
P.S. Richard Roberts and his wife were on Larry King the other night defending themselves against all wrong-doing. I don’t know the status of the situation: is someone suing them? honestly, i have never gotten over how oral roberts said that God told him that He was going to take his life from the earth if someone didn’t donate 5 million (or something) to his hospital. DC: what do you know as the fallout/justification of that fund-raising gimmick? did oral ever apologize for it? if not, i can’t understand why pastors like wendell smith would have oral roberts as a speaker! yes, i can understand from a business/political point of view, but not from an ethical one…
November 15th, 2007 at 7:57 am
joebib’s article said: eremy Burton, a spokesman for Oral Roberts University, declined to comment on the vote Tuesday.
How could any spokesman defending ORU comment on the fact that the majority of their tenured faculty (the ones who have earned the right essentially never to be fired) have no confidence in the president of their university!? Uh. Uh. Uh. Well…
This might mean that Richard Roberts is not able to turn around and fire them - if he could even find out who voted against him! This might be a good sign.
This part sounds like it might be a little better than what Pastor Iverson did several years ago when he was losing control of Bible Temple and so gave the congregation a survey to fill out during the Sunday morning service to try to find out what was wrong. After we finished the several page survey, he asked us all to put our names on them! And, so the report goes, late that night, he went in to the church office to see how certain ones had filled out their surveys and what comments they had made about him and the church. Insecurity. Paranoia.
When a person builds a one-man kingdom, he can trust no one as he continually tries to insulate himself from questions and confrontations. His asking the people for money for the domes and going to the bank for loans to complete what he had started got some real resistance from some of the members of the congregation. The resistance bothered Pastor Iverson so much that he asked everyone to talk to their district elders instead of him about it! Isolation. Distance. Not signs of good leadership. How is Frank doing in this area?
November 15th, 2007 at 8:45 am
Hey DC,
I’m sorry to hear about what happened to you. I think I know the pastor you are talking about, since he later was my pastor in Seattle for a short time at Young Professionals. His pastoring made me realize how little substance there is behind the teachings of that church.
I hope God uses these scandals as a wake up call for all the people who support the lavish lifestyle of the preachers.
Thanks for writing your story…
Craig
November 15th, 2007 at 9:11 am
Thank you both for the encouragement, cat and DM. I’ve rarely shared this story without hearing the word “bitter” rapidly fired in my direction.
I was only at ORU for a year, but I never heard one word uttered about the whole “Give me money or God’s taking me home” debacle, let alone an apology. Nor did I ever know til after I left that Richard Roberts had ever been married to anyone else before Lindsay. The Roberts work very hard to purport themselves to be the paragon of moral correctness, and it definitely comes off like they have to work for it. Have you ever seen his TV program, “The Hour of Healing”? More like the Hour of Hurling.
I’d say that 90% of the people that are there are very intelligent and well meaning people who love ORU and what it stands for. They appear to believe in it more than the Roberts do. I loved most of the professors that I had there, and I made friendships that I’m sure will endure throughout my lifetime. So I don’t regret it all. But I do wish that I would have dared to question that particular pastor’s authority.
November 15th, 2007 at 9:14 am
yep, you got the right guy.
I know his daughter looks at this site from time to time. She is very young and I would never want to share that side of her dad with her, and that is why I didn’t call him out here.
November 15th, 2007 at 11:21 am
DC,
Even though you have loans to pay off at least you have seen first hand, in two environments, or 3 if you count your childhood church, what NOT to do as a Christian. Plus leaving a cult-like environment should be in every Christian’s education! Learning to think for youself when you are encouraged not to strengthens your backbone and integrity. So perhaps your investment isn’t totally a wash, especially since you made some great friends.
It’s funny you ask. We were channel serving last night and lighted upon this very show for the first time! OMG, Richard and Lindsay were sitting in chairs praying over stacks of pledges 2 ft deep in each hand — even after all that’s going on they are still pandering for money! unbelieveable. ‘Hour of Hurling’ is perfect !
I’m perplexed by the allegations told of Lindsay and the underage student smoking by the swimming pool. She’s not what I pictured at all but maybe earlier on she could have attracted a younger guy (with a mother complex).
November 15th, 2007 at 11:25 am
David,
My good friend told me about this and I couldn’t believe it either. This is the kind of fool thing that makes Christians look really really dumb and makes God look like someone he’s not.
November 15th, 2007 at 11:07 pm
I’ll substantiate what DC has said. I attended ORU for five years. DC is right; although, maybe a teensy bit jaded, I think I can understand why.
A lot of what is being reported in the news is salacious, but it isn’t surprising. Of course, I have to say that my years at ORU were the best years of my life, and I truly believe ORU is bigger than Oral Roberts himself, and definitely bigger than Richard and Lindsay Roberts. There are a lot of good quality theologians and brilliant minds at ORU who teach critical thinking, sound doctrine, and really educate the students. Unfortunately, most of them are at odds with Richard Roberts and Charismania in general. Most of the intellectual minds at ORU are Episcopalians, Methodists, Presbyterians, etc. To my knowledge, most of the tenured professors are not from the word of faith or charismatic doctrines, but they enjoy the opportunity to educate students and they’re very good at it.
So that might explain why the tenured professors on Wednesday had a nearly unanimous vote of “no confidence” in the leadership of Richard Roberts, a vote of “confidence” in Provost Dr. Mark Lewandowski (one of my former professors), and a vote of increased involvement of the tenured faculty in the selection process of future leadership. The details since then are riveting. Today Mark Lewandowski submitted to the ORU Board of Regents a conditional letter of resignation–that is, Richard stays as president and Lewandowski is out; Richard goes, and Lewandowski stays. It’s high drama. It would be ORU’s loss if Lewandowski walks. The ORU Alumni website is buzzing, and most alumni support Lewandowski’s stand for greater accountability, transparent financials, and leadership integrity (including me).
Check this out.
DC, I left ORU with about $50,000 in debt (tuition was a bargain at $12,000 a year back then), and I’ll be paying it off until I’m a grandparent. But I truly believe I became a better person at ORU despite Richard and Lindsay Roberts. I have my wonderful professors and mentors to thank for that (and I have no regrets at all). Sure, the Roberts’ shenanigans were awful; really, it’s embarrassing, all the crap you read about in the press. But as I’ve said, ORU is bigger than the Robertses. The investment my professors made in me has been a critical shaping factor in my life. Believe me, I have my own opinions of the Robertses, and they’re mostly not good ones, and after some discussions on alumni message boards, I can say with certainty that I’m in the majority on that.
These days, I attend Imago Dei Community in Portland and, under Rick McKinley’s teaching, I’ve grown impressed with the fact that God really isn’t as weird as many of his people are. There are strange ducks in the kingdom, but there are also amazing people who inspire me toward the grace of God, and the righteousness that has nothing to do with what you DO for God, but who you are in Christ by faith.
I hope you can look back at your time at ORU and find the same good things that I’ve found, and that you continue to seek out genuine people in the kingdom.
November 16th, 2007 at 3:43 pm
I appreciate these words of wisdom and hope and it’s a reminder to view the glass half full rather than half empty, so thanks Bloggy.
November 23rd, 2007 at 7:14 pm
What a surprise.
November 23rd, 2007 at 9:27 pm
Great update Locutus! I wonder what he’ll do now to maintain ‘the lifestyle’? Oh, wait, the Thrive
Is a special offering for ‘persecuted leadership’ coming?
conference is coming up soon….!!
November 24th, 2007 at 4:23 am
Good to see. He can go hang out with Ted Haggard.
November 24th, 2007 at 7:10 am
After the noble action of RR, one wonders if certain other "famous" SPs can be far behind in
fleeing their sinking ships like scared ratsfollowing his example. This whole shameful situation brings to mind Paul's words in his Second Letter to the Corinthians……as well as those of the First…
I don't imagine there's a lot of joy in Heaven over this mess. But, when God said the scenario in 1 Pet. 4:17 would happen, it's all too clear He meant it.
-joe
November 24th, 2007 at 7:52 am
I find this rather intersting…his resignation sure looks like a sign of guilt…
Funny to think that ORU is the same place where Frank Damaziolearned all about the Faith Harvest, Seed Giving, Money Making Offering…I’m not saying Frank is doing anything wrong with this offering, but lets just hold off on calling him “God’s Annointed” for a little while.
November 27th, 2007 at 8:34 pm
An amazing update on the ORU debacle. It’s a COUP!
Once RR took a temporary resignation and the tenured faculty voted no confidence, alumni from around the world descended on the ORU weblog with so much vengeance, it was like a scene out of King Henry VIII. The displeasure coming from alumni is deafening. They demanded swift change–that ORU should separate from OREA (Oral Roberts Evangelistic Association, the “owner” of the university), remove Richard permanently (thus, I believe, his resignation), transparent finances, and faculty involved governance.
WELL…
Today the Board of Regents concluded their secluded two day emergency conference (Benny Hinn, Creflo Dollar, and Kenneth Copeland were noticeably absent) and all eyes and ears were glued to their 6 PM press conference. They emerged to announce the official divorce of ORU and OREA, the pursuit of credentialed President and administration, an 8 Million dollar gift from a local business, and another 62 MILLION dollars on the condition that ORU demonstrate “good governance” within 90 days.
They did not release the findings of the outside audit of Richard and Lindsay Roberts’ financial dealings, but you can bet there’s a reason for that. If they came up squeaky clean, they would have said so. Richard and Lindsay Roberts may continue to live in the Presidential compound for the time being, but they were given an undisclosed length of time to pack their bags. They will remain in leadership over OREA, but will have absolutely nothing to do with the university. Oral will remain a “spiritual regent” but will not have the ability to vote on university matters.
As the Chinese often bid, “May you live in interesting times.”
November 28th, 2007 at 9:05 am
bloggy said: They emerged to announce the official divorce of ORU and OREA, the pursuit of credentialed President and administration…
bloggy, and this we know to be one of the root problems with Portland Bible College: it is owned and operated by the sr. pastor of City Bible, Frank Damazio, and his successors, so, as long as the marriage between church and school exists, the school will simply be another arm for Frank’s thoughts, values and plans. the justification for this marriage and control, which i think has a little merit to it, is that the purpose of the school is to train young people for the ministry of the Gospel; that is fair enough, but the problem is that instead of keeping their central focus on the gospel, the school too easily descends into being a propaganda arena for frank’s new doctrines or ideas…like someone recently observed about the city bible bookstore: most of the books are on leadership….of course, leadership books dominate the city bible bookstore: leadership is frank’s area of focus and frank wants to sell his books and make as much money for himself as possible…larry huch at new beginnings did essentially the same thing: highlighted his materials and that which he believed in, i.e. the messianic movement (larry was selling jewish manora’s, etc. in his book store!) and the prosperity doctrine. we need to help christians realize that they need to get their heads and hearts out of these cult-like movement fox holes and look around to all that the kingdom of God has to offer!