Frank’s Harvest…a Natural Supply
Posted on November 17th, 2007 by Reformed Pope into the Pastor Hank, City Boobie Church, Sermons category
I would like to take a moment to update everyone on Faith Harvest. I, naturally, have been listening very closely to all of Frank Damazio's Faith Harvest sermons (this year he started prepping his congregation early with the "Surplus" series which he has carried right into "Faith Harvest" which he titled something like Supernatural Supply…). I've heard them all. Basically Frank's sermons have been the same as in years past…a bunch of junk about "seed faith" and "giving to receive", which he most likely learned while studying at ORU. Frank has, however, mixed in a new twist to this years teaching…I'm trying to figure out why, maybe you can help. For starters PFrank said… "You can't give your way out of a bad debt"…my jaw dropped to the floor when I heard that. I'm fairly certain that in years past the whole Faith Whatever teaching WAS to give your way out of any problem…is Frank starting to get honest? He followed this up by listing a few OTHER principles that you need to follow in ADDITION to giving him money in order to procure the blessing of God. This is not word for word what he said, but this is the general idea (you can check it out for yourself by listening to the last Surplus message from 3 weeks ago and then his first FH message). Here are some of the other principles you need to follow if you want a financial miracle from God in your life: These are essentially the main points Senior Pastor Frank Damazio brought up during his last few sermons. I shall now sum up my thoughts on PF's teaching: *No Sh*t Sherlock* Uh, Frank, so what you are saying is that if we work really hard at our jobs, and spend less money than we make then we will have money left over??? Yeah, that's not really groundbreaking news, buddy, that's just common sense. Oh, and we can't get out of debt by giving you all our money…are you sure about that? Frank also mentioned that you have to give money to CBC (I think that fell under points 6 & 7). Of course I couldn't help but wonder…if we are cutting out everything that is in excess in our lives, wouldn't Faith Harvest be a good place to start? Frank, I would love to give to your Faith Harvest Offering, but it happens to be "In Excess" so I'm just going to save the money instead. And Frank mentioned that the reason you may be having financial problems could be "out of your control"… That's right, out of YOUR control. He listed a poor country, in the midst of a famine, with a political party that is controlling all the food as an example of out of YOUR control. Um…I'm thinking…thinking…thinking…yeah, aren't we talking about…to quote you Frank…a "SUPERNATURAL SUPPLY". Would the term "Supernatural" sort of take things out of our control? Frank, are you suggesting that God can NOT supply for those in poor countries or that he WON'T…I think they would like to know. Frank is going to spend the last few months of this year speaking on Faith and right here you can see how much Faith Frank has himself… God can only perform the same kind of miracles that Tony Robbins (sp) can. Good job PF, just when I thought you couldn't be any more boring you go and do something like this…and TOTALLY REDEEM YOURSELF. Ok, my last thought on the subject…I believe the reason Frank has put so much effort into talking about working hard and keeping your job (he spends a good sermon and a half encouraging everyone to be better employees) is because he recently cut the wages of all of his staff and is afraid that they are all going to quit and go find work at a church that appreciates them. Maybe they should just get a second job at a church that appreciates them….
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November 17th, 2007 at 10:36 am
The thing is you know most of the staffers have been giving “in excess”, expecting to get that supernatural blessing. And this is how God/Frank rewards them, by cutting their pay. Love it.
November 17th, 2007 at 8:50 pm
We take it to mean if you cut out those extra’s like clothes and food
and making house payments -you might have more to tithe.
Come on now people give!
In Boise we hear they are blaming every shortfall on the economy & the
housing crisis. As they are saying in Tulsa right now-its not the current
crisis but mismanagement! Or maybe its all just catching up with them.
November 17th, 2007 at 8:57 pm
As I learned with a certain Pink MLM –when you drain your unit dry -there is no where to go to pull those reserves you need and you finally cry uncle-gee maybe I was wrong!
A new study is taking place to get people to look at their financial situation since they have been giving, giving, giving to these prosperity churches.
Whose situations have improved since you started giving? Is it you or only your Mega Church pastors and his kids and their spouses and all relatives living at the compound? Are you still living from paycheck to paycheck waiting for
that big windfall? Any day now my life will resemble my pastor’s and his kids.
What will happen when you can no longer make those Lexus payments Frank?
I can’t wait till you find out –from one ex -car driver to another–
its good to be free!
November 19th, 2007 at 12:40 pm
This is so ridiculous. You guys are ridiculous. My favorite is the fact that you criticize them for having pay cuts. (And just so you know, ALL staff got pay cuts) Does that not prove that they are not after their own personal gain?! You guys spend your time criticizing, but what good are you doing? Even if PF is a heretic, is it not God’s job to promote and demote? Don’t you think He cares enough about His people to give them a suitable leader? God cared enough about New Life Church to demote Pastor Ted, don’t you think that if your accusations are true God will take care of it? Why don’t you let God do his job and start doing yours. You have gifts that Christ has given and I can guarantee you that they do not include criticism. What are you guys doing for God’s kingdom? What are you giving? How are you serving Christ? (seriously I’d like to know) I think your time could be much better spent doing something else.
Criticism does not construct anything…
November 19th, 2007 at 12:45 pm
Ahhh, my favorite type of comment. “Criticism is horrible… …unless of course it’s me criticizing you, then it’s okay.”
November 19th, 2007 at 12:56 pm
RP: Go get ‘em! Good points. Here are a few random thoughts your post brought to mind:
A member of CBC recently told me how sick he was for how often Frank took offerings. If it wasn’t for this, it was for that. If it wasn’t for the home church, it was for a church overseas, etc. I wonder if we interviewed some of the members of CBC, whether any would also confess to donor fatigue?!
I remember how Pastor Iverson used to tell us in PBC leadership class how he did not like to hire those on church staff who watched the clock when they worked. Well, I wonder why because slaves don’t own clocks.
Christians are supposed to be winning the world to Christ, instead, those of the IC pour all of their time, money and energy into supporting Christian celebrities who are supposed to win their cities to Christ through sensational platform performances and preaching. What’s happening to everybody’s neighbors? Oh, invite them to church to hear the man of God preach, of course?!
I was quick to note when Frank’s guest speaker sevever years ago, Bob Seymour, called the first fruits offering a good “insurance policy” for Christians! As I hope to expose in my book, this is nothing but an attempt at bribing God and its roots are in paganism rather than the gospel.
Someday I want to post an article about the book, The 48 Laws of Power. One of the laws of power is for the cult/sect leader to not let his followers know that THEY are the source of the leader’s income and high-end lifestyle! As long as the Christian celebrity-king can continue to fool the people with the perception that GOD is the one who is making them successful then the people will not question the leaders’ taking of continual offerings and lavishness. But, once the people realize that THEY hold the power to cause these pastor-kings to come down a notch or two or three or four, then LOOK OUT!
I think that many denominations learned a long time in observing the power and money corruptions of the papacy, that it is not good to allow one man to run the entire show. I wonder if charismatic/pentecostals will ever learn the same lesson. I have my doubts because they put too much emphasis upon what they see as the “anointing of God” - They think: if a person can teach, preach, heal, move in the Spirit, then how can they be questioned. In my view, this is sad, shallow, seductive and unbiblical thinking.
November 19th, 2007 at 1:50 pm
David Mackin said:
Once the duped worshipper comes to his/her senses, he is relieved and angry. Relieved to know that the celebrity-king is not really God’s favorite afterall, and angry on so many levels…
I wonder if these leaders are buying into a deception or creating it?
November 19th, 2007 at 2:58 pm
frustrated said:
So, I assume that you assume that people who blog sit around and blog all day and don’t go to work or have ministries. That’s like saying the only activity a Republican or Democrat involves himself with is politics and that the only good that can come to America is via his particular political party.
How can you be sure that speaking out about bringing change isn’t doing more for God’s kingdom than you know?
November 19th, 2007 at 5:24 pm
Of course it’s not just about money check out this story…
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/11/19/national/a130934S17.DTL&tsp=1
November 19th, 2007 at 10:10 pm
Dear Frustrated (Incorporated),
I wasn't trying to say that PF is out for personal gain. I was simply wondering outloud it the reason Frank has recently taken such an interest in people staying at their jobs is because he is afraid he is loosing his own staff….due to pay cuts.
I'm pointing out the errors of Frank's un-Biblical teaching…if he stuck to Bible truths there would be nothing to talk about…sounds good to me.
Whoa, whoa, whoa…who's calling Frank Damazio a heretic? By the way, is this how you live your life? God will take care of everything so why should we do anything? This is a common manipulation tactic that leaders use to deflect accusations. Frank's teachings are un-Biblical, lets not get off track.
I think writing is a gift that Christ has given me. Please show me where in the Bible it says to not be critical of false teachers?
A lot of people would like to know…but this blog isn't about what I do or what I give. If you'd like to do some research to find out a bit more about me, you could start your own blog. I'm not in to letting me left hand know what my right is doing (which makes it very difficult to type).
Yes, you are right.
Uh…this blog was built on it…constructed from Criticism and wit…and into a powerful megachurch eating machine… It is now your turn to respond. Time starts…now.
November 20th, 2007 at 1:45 am
Reformed Pope,
Oh. None the less it does prove my point that PF and the other staff are not after their own personal gain, which is a theme in this blog.
His teaching is not un-Biblical. The only thing that I could see that he is doing wrong is he could be emphasizing something too much, but that does not make it un-Biblical. The false teachers in the bible did things like discredit Jesus’ deity, and tell them that they were saved by works, they didn’t over emphasize giving. Which by the way I think you are completely missing the point to his message. It is not to give to CBC, but to just give. I have given to something other than CBC and many of my friends have as well. His heart is to see people financially free, not weighed down by worries of money, as well able to bless other people. I don’t want God to give me money so I can buy a nice car, I want more money so that I can give it to other people. Why wouldn’t God want to give me money if that is the case? He talks about basic stuff like working hard because many of the people in the congregation have had no training on finances. Just a side note.
.
Well you might not be calling him a heretic, but you do call him a false teacher. Yes I do live my life that way to some extent because I realize that there are not only things I can’t do, but things i shouldn’t do. I think you need to be very careful because if you are wrong it could cost you. Discreditting leaders is very dangerous ground, and this blog reminds me of the story of Korah, Dotham, and Abiram who led a rebellion against Moses (Numbers 16). The story didn’t turn out good for them.
2Peter 2:1 “They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves….v. 9 if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment.c 10 This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the sinful natured and despise authority”
I think this verse makes it very clear that we are not the ones to take false teachers down, but rather they will bring it on themselves. It also mentions in verse 9 how God knows how to rescue godly men, like I wrote about earlier saying that God cares about his people and will provide them with a suitable leader. Prov. 10:12 says “Hatred stirs up dissension, but love covers over all wrongs.” That is why this blog is in the wrong, not because what you’re arguing is wrong, but becuase you are doing it out of hatred. This blog is on dangerous ground.
Hmmm, I’m don’t really understand how I can research you by creating my own blog. Ok, you don’t have to tell me anything, I just wanted you to ask yourself.
You just proved my point. So your blog was built on it, and what does this blog do? It destroys. So all you built was a destroying machine. I would be scared to be you because you are proud of building a “powerful megachurch eating machine.” Do you realize that the church is Christ’s bride? Yes, megachurches are included in that. Whether or not they are perfect they are indeed the Lord’s bride and any good husband would be pretty pissed if you messed with his bride.
De-tox church group
I didn’t assume that, that is why i said “(seriously I want to know).” I figured that this blogger doesn’t just sit around and blog all day so I asked what else they did.
I can’t be sure, and often time change is good for God’s kingdom. This blog however is doing it the wrong way. Not in humbleness, not in love.
Everyone
I am not going to respond to anymore comments because it is a waste of my time. I realize that my comments are not going to change neither your minds nor your hearts. I just wanted to give you fair warning of the wrong that you are doing. I will check on this again, so I can see what you say about this comment, but I will not reply to it. I pray that you see what you are really doing.
November 20th, 2007 at 5:19 am
Frustrated,
I know you are pouring your life out for something you believe in strongly. It has to be painful to hear critical comments and be made fun of. There are some very fine people who work at CBC, and some that I know do it sacraficially at low pay.
Here are some things that bother me. 1. How can someone teach so strongly about setting aside 10%, and then overspend the church budget by nearly $360,000? If you are in “leadership” shouldn’t you set an example?
2. Tithing is mentioned in the New Testament 3 times. Baptism is mentioned somewhere around 150 times. How is it that every Sunday brings at least a mention of the tithe, but I cannot recall a sermon teaching about baptism? Is this Christianity that the Apostle Peter would recognize?
3. Leadership is a subject that gets a lot of teaching/time. There seems to be nearly 1/3 of the bookstore dedicated to the subject. Jesus told the disciples in Matthew 23:10, “And do not be called leaders, for One is your Leader, that is Christ.” Look up the greek word used there for ‘leader’ and see if this is a correct translation. Ask yourself why those in charge are doing things Christ said not to do.
I know you said you were not going to post anymore, but at least think about what is going on. Over 11 million dollars came in, and over half went to wages and benefits. The yearly report did not even say how many were on staff, much less who made what. How much debt is the church in? It wasn’t listed. There needs to be a lot more transparency!
November 20th, 2007 at 5:38 am
I think you are all being way too kind. There is a special place in hell for people who use Christ’s message of love and grace as a means to get rich.
November 20th, 2007 at 9:33 am
Frustrated, you used 2Peter 2:1 and didn’t include verse 2. I wonder why? Paul further describes the nature of the heresy you tried to pin on this blog…
Don’t use the bible as a jigsaw puzzle to defend your beloved leader. If you use the full description of the false teachers with damnable heresy it sounds a whole lot more like the prosperity gospel of MFI.
November 20th, 2007 at 11:50 am
Here is my response to Frustrated (who will never comment again):
It is my opinion that the MOST important part of Christianity is the Gospel of Jesus. Without it, we have nothing. No matter how much money you have and give, no matter how much you love and care for others, no matter how much ____________________ it is all nothing without Jesus and the Cross.
Despite this fact, Frank Damazio spends the majority of his time telling people about how they can get God to bless them…but spends very little time talking about how God has already blessed them (Jesus, Grace, the Cross…etc.). This is wrong…but worse than that it is dangerous.
Take a moment and look at the lives of Jesus, the disciples, and the apostles and tell me where you see an example that could back up the statement
When I hear this I worry that you have a false perception of Christianity…and that can lead to very bad things.
Best of luck to you.
November 20th, 2007 at 2:41 pm
frustrated said:
Umm, how do you think Pastor Ted got exposed? Someone (the male prostitute) accused him of being a homosexual and a meth user and it was found to be true. It’s not like God spoke to the leadership and said “Pastor Ted is a homosexual, a meth user, and he visits male prostitutes so he needs to be removed”. It’s nice when it happens that way (and I only personally know of one instance when it did) but it seems far more common that people get exposed when other people bring accusations of their wrong doing to light.
It seems more common that God uses people to expose the wrong doing of other people.
November 21st, 2007 at 10:56 am
The short answer: “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are your ways my ways.” God is not nearly as interested in money as we are.
The long answer: I don’t question Frustrated’s motives. That is a matter of the heart that I cannot judge. However, I believe the fact that this question is being asked shows that many of us do not understand God’s sovreignty. It also reveals the kind of (g)od that the “prosperity with a purpose” fallacy projects onto its followers.
The fact that we may not understand why God wouldn’t want to give someone with pure motives lots of money simply reveals why He is God and we are not. It is not our job to understand specifically why God does what He does or why He allows discomfort and inconvenience in our life.
As Isaiah says, “Woe to {the one} who quarrels with his Maker– An earthenware vessel among the vessels of earth! Will the clay say to the potter, ‘What are you doing?’ Or the thing you are making {say,} ‘He has no hands’?”.
Still, we must believe generally that God is good and loves us completely and demonstrated that through Jesus. The great hope of the gospel is not that we will understand everything that happens in this life. Our hope and joy is in the fact that we have been freed from our sins, put into right relationship with God, and received assurances of eternal fellowship with God in the next life.
There is no sin in asking God questions. In fact, I think he loves it. It would be prayer for understanding. Moses pleaded with God. Every one of the prophets asked Him why He permitted sin, suffering, and persecution to continue. Job asked God why he was suffering. All the Psalmists asked God questions.
However, I believe there is great arrogance in asking the question and assuming there is only one right answer. (As this question does). God is always free to disagree with us.
To answer the question specifically, God might allow a righteous man to remain poor so that he will be able to more effectively minister to the poor. God might allow a righteous man to remain sick, so that his godly response to suffering would bring glory to God and lead others in the hospital to salvation. God might allow a righteous man to be falsely imprisoned to bring salvation to the prison guards. All of these situations would be difficult for us, but glorifying to God. That should be ok with us.
We are not instructed to understand God’s will. In fact, we’re told that in this life we can’t, completely. (1 Cor 13:12) I’m just worried about those of us who rebuke discomfort with faith principles. We seem to ignore the possibility that our present discomfort or (gasp) lack, actually is God’s will.
Does God want to bless us? Yes. Does the Lord give and take away? Yes. Are these concepts inconsistent? Of course not. God taking something that you value may be the greatest blessing you ever receive. Understanding this, however, requires an eternal perspective.
For Christians, it should be enough to know that Jesus has paid the penalty for our sins and made a way for us to spend eternity in right relationship with God. In no way do I mean to trivialize the real suffering any of us are enduring. But I hope we can all find solace in Paul’s perspective and “consider that the present sufferings of this time are not worthy to be compared to the glory that is to be revealed to us.”
DOC
November 21st, 2007 at 12:50 pm
Not anonymous and reformed pope-
I decided to right again because you missed what I was trying to say, and gained a false perception of me. First off let me make it clear that I am not a member of CBC, I go to PBC and many of the staff you talk about are my teachers/mentors. I have a church back at home and am only here temporarily. I in no way idolize PF or any of the other leaders, they are mere humans that are my leaders and my friends, I do respect them though. I do not have a false perception of christianity and I whole-heartedly agree that the gospel of Jesus is the most important part of Christianity, and money is much less of a matter.
I want to be a blessing to everyone in everything, not just money, but that is a great way to practically help people. I want to have an abundance of salvation, faith, grace, joy, and hope. I want to be a blessing to the nations as Abraham was commissioned to do. I do not love money, I love people, and think money is a great means to bless them, and perhaps prove to them that I care and in turn God cares, but it isn’t the only means.
With that said let me explain to you more clearly why I am frustrated. Let’s say for the sake of argument, that you are right. Frank Damazio is a cheater. He steals and manipulates. He focuses way too much on tithing and leaders and minimizes the gospel of Jesus Christ. That is very bad and he should be dealt with. How then should you deal with it? By creating a blog that bashes the whole church? You say that there are good people in CBC but you create a website called city business church, to me that sounds like you are bashing all of CBC not just PF. Your heart behind this blog is not out of humbleness or love or restoration. It is a blog that bashes CBC and its staff for fun. If a non Christian were to do that, that is one thing, I wouldn’t be very mad at all, but the fact that you are a Christian, and you seem to be a genuine one, scares me.
Galatians 6:1-2 says that we should restore someone caught in sin with gentleness. Even though you might hate or dislike PF, he is your Christian brother. This blog gives a bad name to Christianity, showing us as divided and unstable. If you really cared about the kingdom you would do this in a private matter, you would not mock him for all the world to see. The issue I have is not whether PF is doing illegal things or not. I don’t know if he is, but I trust that God is just and also cares about his flock and his word says that you cannot hide sin forever. My issue is that you are a Christian and are being a cannibal by creating a “mega church eating machine.” This blog isn’t just to bring down a false teacher, it is to mock and make fun of a Christian brother and the flock that is guided by him. You say that there are good people in CBC but by mocking PF you hurt the whole church. I can guarantee that whether or not you are right or wrong about PF your actions have caused you to be in the wrong, you have dealt with it the wrong way. Here are a few verses I hope you look at. 1 Cor. 6:1-8 Matt. 18:15-20.
Please stop shooting friendly fire, we already get enough from the enemy.
November 21st, 2007 at 3:15 pm
Doc, those were words well spoken. Bravo.
Frustrated, I can appreciate your point of view, but you don’t have the entire history of this blog or you would already know that Reformed Pope has met with leaders of CBC to discuss their differing theology regarding the tithe, and RP has extended an open invitation to meet with PF at any time. PF has refused, and he and other pastors condemn this blog and those who read it as being in error. Their pride and investment into their own system of false prosperity prevents them from taking an honest and open-minded approach to the topic. Even if they were able to meet, I doubt anyone of them would be persuaded to stop their teachings. If we truly believe them to be in error, and steps have been taken to meet with them to correct it, and they still persist, then it is absolutely justifiable to make our voices heard in the Christian community at large. If the situation was reversed, I have no doubt that CBC and CC leadership would not hesitate to cast out the alleged sinners.
My conscience is clear - If I have to choose between facing God’s judgment for a) criticizing a leader or b) condoning the financial fleecing and abuse of God’s people, I’ll take “a”.
November 21st, 2007 at 3:56 pm
Frustrated: Thank you for taking time to share your heart. In the same way you asked us to be sure we understood what you were saying clearly, let us ask the same of you. There are many people here at many different stages of life so don’t paint us all with the same brush.
Realize that when you say:
it shows that you’re new here and don’t know anything about us or really understand the heart of what many people are saying. Are you also hiding behind an name on the internet? Would you be this judgmental and harsh if you were facing any of these people face to face? Could you be one of the few people from PBC to show the Christ-like attitude that you insist others show? Only time will tell.
PS there’s a lot of sarcasm sometimes thrown around which rarely comes across accurately in text. Keep that in mind as you read, it just might be tongue-in-cheek!
November 21st, 2007 at 6:40 pm
All religion, spirituality, and any “just causes” set aside, you are really doing an impressive job at ruining this man “Frank Damazio’s” life. Good luck with everything.
November 23rd, 2007 at 1:34 am
DOC I completely agree with you. I still feel like you are all are missing my point. You are all right in saying I am new at this and have no idea of this blog’s history. I have learned a lot through your comments as well as that it is too difficult to discuss such broad issues via comments on a blog. I wish we could meet face to face but I doubt that is possible. I realize you are not bad people, and probably lead a healthy Christian life. In the same way you must see that I too am a healthy Christian although I am humble in the fact that I still have much to learn and experience. However my conviction will always be to support and submit to leadership, no matter where I am (work, church, nation). I think I have made it clear why I disagree with this blog, but I will sum it up for you one last time: I do not disagree with you because you question what CBC and PF are doing, I do disagree with you because you mock him openly for all to see. I don’t see this blog as bringing change in the situation, just in everyone’s respect for PF and CBC.
Thank you all for responding to my comments and sharpening me “as iron sharpens iron.” I sincerely wish the best for you, and pray that truth reigns, whether it be you or I that is proven wrong.
November 23rd, 2007 at 6:41 am
Frustrated–
I appreciate where you are coming from. FWIW, I used to feel much the same as you do.
When I first discovered this blog — I, too, supposed that far too many posters around here spent far too much time focusing on the negative. They expended too much precious energy, I felt, in bashing their brethren, disrespecting those in ministry, being overly critical, manifesting an attitude of bitterness, and failing to see the logs — many of which were worse, I felt, than the motes they were pointing out — in their own respective eyes, and so forth.
This was how I felt, too.
And did I ever take a heap of flack over it! For having the temerity, the unmitigated gall — like Paul I fancied — of “speaking the truth in love.” (Eph. 4:15, NASB)
And, like Paul, of finding myself in the same position — in order to try and appease their wrath — of having to ask this question:
(Gal. 4:16, NASB)
Ah, I can hear them quoting John 18:38a right now
But, I must say that, now, several months later, after having spent a sufficient amount of time on this blog, I think, in really getting to know these folks by re-reading their posts, dialoguing with them, and getting to know where they are coming from, I have now come to the conclusion that your original perception of this blog is……well………for the most part………ummm…
…pretty much spot on!
Heh-heh.
Thus, having re-read what I just said up above, I suppose I need to correct it as follows:
“…FWIW, I still feel much the same as you do….”
Hang in there, bro. God ain’t done with this blog — nor any of us — yet.
-joebib
November 23rd, 2007 at 1:02 pm
Frustrated, you said:
I have a question for you. A real, honest question. What would you do when you believe that your leadership has gone astray? Or when they ask you to do something that is against your convictions. Or when they tell people things that you know KNOW are misleading and false? What would you do?
November 23rd, 2007 at 3:24 pm
Frustrated,
Thanks for the response. Like others have suggested, I would encourage you to treat everyone on here as individuals and not make many assumptions based on people’s presence on this blog. Like Joebib, I have quit trying to deal with people’s attitudes. I’ve found it fruitless. But I don’t think that means the overall discussion here is insignificant.
If you can, I would encourage you to ignore the personal attacks. They really are a distraction from what I feel is a meaningful discussion. Instead, think long and hard about the doctrinal issues raised here. Scripture has many warnings about false teachers and we are repeatedly instructed to give ourselves to sound doctrine. I wouldn’t assume that everyone is a false teacher, or that any error in doctrine makes someone a false teacher. However, I would just be aware that anyone might be.
Examining someones doctrine can be done with great humility or with great arrogance. You seem to be starting from humility and that will serve you well. Just remember, you can be discerning and humble at the same time. It can be a difficult balance, and if you determine that someone is wrong they will generally accuse of you of arrogance (at least thats been my experience). But discernment and humility are both biblical virtues, so it must be possible.
Thanks for putting up with us.