City Business Church » Blog Archive » The Gift of Peace…stressed me out.

The Gift of Peace…stressed me out.

Posted on December 14th, 2007 by Reformed Pope into the Pastoral Staff, Sermons category

I've been critiquing City Bible Church's month long sermon series titled The Gift. Last week we (they) covered the Gift of Love and this week I had the pleasure of listening to a sermon on the Gift of Peace given by Marc Estes.

I have been hoping all along to hear about the Gospel (truth) of Jesus Christ…but I'm coming to realize that CBC has no idea what that is.

I'll try to sum up "The Gift of Peace" according to Marc Estes. Marc started by telling you what a "Gift" was (basic recap of Frank's sermon from last week) and then told you that Baby Jesus was a gift of peace. Marc says that there are 3 things you need to do to make a gift worth anything: 1 - Receive 2 - Unwrap 3 - Apply to your life. His example was this: If someone gives you a box full of cash and you take it but don't open it, then it doesn't do you any good. You have to unwrap the box and apply the money to your life (I have no idea how to "apply money to your life", but my guess is that you put it in the bank). He than said that Jesus wants to give you Peace and all you have to do is receive it.

Apparently, all you need is Jesus in your life and you will find Peace…and not just a partial peace, but a full and complete peace that nothing from this world can penetrate. Marc then read a bunch of scriptures that talk about God wanting you to have Peace. Are you curious what you have to do to get this "peace" in your life? I was, and this is what Marc said you need to do to get this Peace:

Receive. Unwrap. Apply.

Yup, that is it…just Receive the gift of peace, un-wrap that gift of peace and apply that gift to your life. It's so simple. Once again we have another CBC sermon where I'm left saying ???????. Those are some very generic directions. What does that mean? Specifically, how do we Receive, Unwrap, and Apply?

I wish I hadn't asked. Marc ended the sermon with an alter call where he basically told everyone that if they don't have Peace in their life than all they need to do is come down to the alter and ask Jesus into their hearts. It's as if the "Sinner's Prayer" is a magic spell.

I don't know how in the world Marc can say the things he said…I certainly hope he doesn't actually believe them. I have known far too many Great, Godly, Christian Men and Women who did NOT have peace in their life at all times (consider Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane: Mark 26:38). It isn't that easy.

Marc, what do you say to the Christian woman whose spent her whole life living for God along side her Godly husband…who has an unfortunate accident and dies…leaving her alone…

Is there something wrong with her, if she doesn't feel peace?

Let me tell you my thoughts on Peace and Jesus. The peace that comes from knowing Jesus helps when you fully understand that everything (and I mean everything) that happens in this world is ordained (or allowed) by God. The good, the bad, and the in-between all happen with God's permission. The devil can NOT interfere with God's plans for this life. Sometimes, there will be stresses that come into your life. Sickness and Death are two real buggers that can interfere with your Peace, and as much as we may say "God you are in control" it doesn't bring immediate peace, necessarily. Peace from Jesus, in my mind, means accepting that God is in control of all the crap that this life has to offer…there is peace in that.

I'm so tired of CBC teaching that God will solve all your problems. "Just ask Him into your heart children, and he will take over the controls of your life…just trust in Him and he will take care of your problems". "If you are feeling down, just run into His arms and He will hug you and take away your pain".

Maybe….or maybe not.

Let' be REAL for a moment. God set up some simple rules that apply to life. And within those rules are rewards and consequences. Sin has a negative effect on this this world, and sin doesn't just effect the sinner, it can effect those around them even more so.

What happens when people expect God to magically cure all their problems? They get angry at Him when it doesn't happen. Life is Life, people. It isn't going to be easy. Jesus is a good friend, but He isn't a genie in a bottle.

I thought about emailing this to Marc, but I'm quite certain if I did he would just tell me that I completely misunderstood what he was saying. The truth is, I heard him loud and clear. (Marc did spend 10 seconds saying that your life needs to line up with the Bible and God's will in your life and that sometimes when bad things happen it is because God is just trying to get our attention… but his basic theme was that if you are a good Christian you will have perfect peace in your life.)

I say, that although God CAN miraculously take all the stresses away from your life, chances are good that He won't. Do not be discouraged if you are going through a rough time. Again, Life is Life.

My faith in Jesus helps remove the fear of dying, but it doesn't take away my fear of death. If something were to happen to my wife or any of my children I would HURT for a very long time. There would be many nights of pain, stress, anguish…and that would be ok. It wouldn't mean that I am a lousy Christian and it wouldn't mean that God is a liar. Because of Sin we have Death and because of Death we have Pain…this is the life that we have to live in…and it's OK.

Feel free to hurt, feel free to cry, and feel free to know that despite all you are going through God sent His son to earth to pay the price for you sins.

Romans 5:1-8

1Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

2through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we exult in hope of the glory of God.

3And not only this, but we also exult in our tribulations, knowing that tribulation brings about perseverance;

4and perseverance, proven character; and proven character, hope;

5and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

6For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly.

7For one will hardly die for a righteous man; though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die.

8But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

31 Comments To This Post

AskGodforit said:
December 14th, 2007 at 11:30 am
The question has come up more than once “How can these guys be so far off?” or “How did a Church or Bible College that was fonded so strongly on biblical principles now find itself in so much error”

In the case of the messages by CBC supposedly on “Grace” how can they not understand the basic message of the Gospel? They have not always been that way but over time have erred concerning the truth and fallen away from what the simple truth of Grace is.

Ken Malmin told me years ago as I sat in his office that CBC was all about principles that they had decided to live by. And even though he may not totally agree with some things that he must live by the principles that all the elders had agreed to. Loyalty to each other (as well and many others) was one of those principles. CBC has put principles (morality) above Jesus and above relationship.

I fond this article today that for me explains alot of why there is so much disparity between what once was and what now is…It’s is only 3 degrees of seperation in the beginning but miles of difference in the end.

——Article from croswalk.com—–

Morality is Not the Point- By Dave Carl - Insight for Living

Now stay with me. If you don’t agree now, you may when I’m finished. For a while now I’ve been asking the elementary-age kids I know, “What do you think God wants most from us?” Most of the time the answers are something like, “God wants us to be good” or “God wants us to pray a lot.” I was even pleased to get a “God wants us to help people.” These were the kind of answers I expected—but they are wrong. They are off by perhaps three degrees. If you start on a journey and you are three degrees off of your bearing, you will in a short time be half a mile off-course. In a few days you will be hundreds of miles off-course, and soon you’ll be in the wrong hemisphere. You will have completely missed your destination. That is why sailors have checked their compasses obsessively for thousands of years.

When I ask “What does God want most from us?” the words I hope to hear are “He wants us to love Him.” That’s the point. That’s what matters most. And in the pursuit of loving God we need to toss overboard whatever may distract us or cause us to drift off-course. The distractions are legion.

Christianity is complex; sin is easy. Those of us who have lived some years as followers of Christ are probably not going to stumble into a life of violent crime. We are probably not going to wake up one day and choose to wholly reject God and become angry atheists. However, we do need to be afraid of drift and distraction. As sinful humans, we will drift away from God, and we will be distracted—it’s unavoidable. Consequently, we need to discover these distractions early and get them corrected quickly. It’s also important to note that these distractions come not only in the form of sinful temptations—they can come in any form. They can even look like good things. King Saul was distracted by his desire to be a good king, and the Pharisees were distracted by their devotion to Scripture, of all things. Abraham was distracted by his love for his son Isaac; it caused him to drift away from God. For those of us working to serve and teach kids through ministry, we need to be especially vigilant and stay on our course.

A wise man once observed that for ministers, the one thing that hinders spiritual growth most is ministry. The very act of ministry can be a distraction from our relationship with God. Many enter into ministry with visions of making a difference in lives, of leading people toward growth and maturity. That’s the wrong motive. You’ve begun to drift by perhaps three degrees.

The right motive for ministry comes from loving God so much that you want to spill it over on others. If you go into ministry solely to serve either kids or adults, you are already distracted and drifting off-course. You will run aground. How? Kids certainly won’t appreciate your sacrifices; and adults won’t understand what you’re trying to do. They will even fight you and impede the very thing they hired you to come and accomplish! This scenario happens so often it has a name—burnout. To avoid this kind of disaster in ministry, in work, or in parenting, we need to honestly and humbly check our bearings and adjust our course constantly toward loving God.

Morality is not the point. When it becomes the point you will become corrupt. You will have lost sight of the main goal—loving God. This concept is very important when you are guiding a child or young believer in Christ. The Pharisees were moral, the most moral people around, and Jesus reserved His most scathing and condemning words for them (Matthew 23:27). Morality will not save you from hell; it will not even make you a better person. However, it will make life miserable for those around you. And eventually you will run aground. You won’t be able to keep it up; you won’t be able to keep mustering your will to step up and rescue you. Morality is not the point; it is merely a means to a much greater end.

When I was a kid I was taught by my Sunday school teachers and youth leaders that if I behaved well, if I was a moral person, good things would come my way. This is a bad bit of theology for a number of reasons. To tell this to kids may help the leaders to control them, but it is selfish of the leaders and harmful to the kids. It sets the stage for a theological crisis. One day this well-behaving kid will have the world crash around his ankles, and he’ll try to make sense of it. His thoughts will grope around for conclusions and probably come up with something like this; “I believed that if I was good, good things would happen to me. But because bad things are happening to me, I must conclude that I’m bad and that I deserve what is happening.” Or he might think; “I have been a pretty good kid, and this is not fair. I’ve held up my part of the bargain and God hasn’t. God is neither good nor loving after all.” I often worry about these silent, internal conversations because kids are using bad or incomplete information that leads to conclusions that will send them way off-course, far more than just three degrees.

I want my kids to behave well, and I want your kids to behave well. But I don’t want to create a theological crisis for them in the process. Luke 10:27 says “Love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself.” There is the polar north of every disciple of Christ. Not self-sacrifice, not giving, not biblical knowledge, and not good behavior. Though these things are necessary, even indispensable tools on your journey toward becoming Christ-like, they must not be allowed to become the goal.

For years I’ve thought about the legalist as being on one end of the spectrum and the grace-filled person being on the opposite end. These days I think they are only three degrees apart. Many of the behaviors these two people do are the same. They both spend time reading the Bible, they both speak to God, and they both try to do the right things. The legalist does much of this out of guilt or in an effort to earn God’s approval. The legalist is driven by the strength of his own will. And though he fails routinely, he hopes that he will be able to muster up the discipline to do better. He also holds an ever-increasing disdain for those who do not work as hard as he does. Can you see the pattern? It is all about him! His thoughts are on himself; he is consumed by how he is doing. This is precisely the kind of self-absorption Christ came to save us from. The grace-filled person on the other hand is striving to not be self-absorbed; he wants to be lost in love for Jesus. He is doing many of the same things as the legalist, but his focus is on Jesus. With only three degrees of difference at the beginning, these two people will end up in different hemispheres.

If we teach our kids only morality, the undertow of legalism will be almost irresistible. I propose that we as parents, teachers, and children’s workers check our bearings and work to lead our kids to love God first. Not an icky, silly love, but an informed, well-thought-out and defensible love for God. Considering the character of God, a response of love is the only reasonable one. This is a difficult course to maintain. Along the way you will be a legalist sometimes, but just check your bearings and correct your course. I was probably a legalist twice last week, and I bet I will be again next week, so I need to check my bearings regularly.

So how do I do this? How can I be sure that Jesus is my polar north? Introspection is a helpful but underused tool. Ask yourself some tough questions like “Am I really seeking to know and love God, or am I just reading my Bible so that God will bless me?” Try this one; “Do I treat the lost sinner badly because he offends my morality, or am I filled with compassion for him like Jesus was?” Or “If I hate things that Jesus did not hate, am I willing to change?”

I hope that you agree that loving God is the point—the only course worth following. If you do, you should then be asking something along the lines of, “Okay, so how do I do this? How do I love God more?” Even harder than that, “How do I help my kids to love God more?” These are exactly the questions to ask. Work on some answers yourself. Ask wise people around you. Be stubborn and intractable until you have a biblical plan that will lead you toward loving God more and guiding others to do the same. Next time I’ll tell you what I’ve come up with.

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living life said:
December 14th, 2007 at 11:50 am
aaaaannnndddddddd……… why do you torture yourself and listen to the “sermons” from yankie frankie and the like??

You have a lot of fortitude to torture yourself in such manner!!

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Negrodamus said:
December 14th, 2007 at 2:04 pm
“Let me tell you my thoughts on Peace and Jesus. The peace that comes from knowing Jesus helps when you fully understand that everything (and I mean everything) that happens in this world is ordained (or allowed) by God. The good, the bad, and the in-between all happen with God’s permission.”

WOW! Can’t believe I’m hearing this from you. Look’s like those cigars and brews at McMennimen’s are finally paying off!!!! Tell the fellaz I said WHASSUUPPP!!! And don’t punk out by saying “allowed”, you know it want to say “ordained”.

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FICM said:
December 14th, 2007 at 2:39 pm
Ask, thanks for that wonderful article.

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Reformed Pope said:
December 14th, 2007 at 3:00 pm
WOW! Can’t believe I’m hearing this from you. Look’s like those cigars and brews at McMennimen’s are finally paying off!!!!

Yes they are. But now that you are gone, its kinda lonely being in the Cypress Room all by myself.

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pcurtain said:
December 14th, 2007 at 5:57 pm
so…. I’m for a City Biz Church blog get together. Masks and disguises welcome. Has this been considered before?

–p

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Negrodamus said:
December 14th, 2007 at 6:17 pm
When I come up (one of these days), me, you and the fellas gotta go hang out at McMennimen’s and catch up. And ask your bitter brother has he found it in his heart to forgive me for taking another coaching position his Senior year. He was my favorite player to coach, only guy I knew that did everything with his right hand, even when he would be on the left side of the court!!!!

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A.C.T.I.O.N. said:
December 14th, 2007 at 8:25 pm
Peace is trusting God even when he doesn’t make sense. Knowing that even if good things don’t happen he is still in control. Life sucks sometimes. God disappoints you but he never fails. Peace is trusting that in spite of all those things God is still in control.

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pcurtain said:
December 14th, 2007 at 8:32 pm
Negrodamus on December 14, 2007 at 6:17 pm said:

When I come up (one of these days), me, you and the fellas gotta go hang out at McMennimen’s and catch up. And ask your bitter brother has he found it in his heart to forgive me for taking another coaching position his Senior year. He was my favorite player to coach, only guy I knew that did everything with his right hand, even when he would be on the left side of the court!!!!

Okay, now I’m curious. Shaun’s still happy with the BT world, near as I know. And I’m not sure he played basketball his Senior year. But who is Negrodamus?

Blessings!
–p

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Reformed Pope said:
December 14th, 2007 at 8:40 pm
Negrodamus is the man that knows all…

Let me know when you are coming up next and we should set something up. You can email me at Frankdamazio@hotmail.com…

or at mortonjp14@hotmail.com if it makes you feel more comfortable. And while I can't speak for Justin, if you taught me anything it is "Left hand on the Left side and right hand on the right side".

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Negrodamus said:
December 15th, 2007 at 8:23 am
I will definetly do that. I’m coming up hopefully by March and when you get a chance go get the book “In Jesus Name” by Henri Nouwen, it deals with a lot of what you and Justin discuss on this blog, pretty sick book on all the shenanigans that we deal with in Christendom.

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catalyst said:
December 15th, 2007 at 9:16 am
He was my favorite player to coach, only guy I knew that did everything with his right hand, even when he would be on the left side of the court!!!!

Yes. Because I was an unathletic 5'10" white guy. What did you expect? You were coaching at Temple Christian. The really good white religious athletes all go to Jesuit. And I'm not bitter at all. Playing basketball was about the only redeeming aspect of going to Temple Christian. At any other school, I wouldn't have gotten to play. Honestly, it's the one thing about highschool that I miss and that I felt I learned anything. Well, that and Miss Coleman's English class.

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Negrodamus said:
December 15th, 2007 at 12:54 pm
I was just messin’ with you, just wanted to hear you chime in. You and Donnell Cox were hands down two of the fastest players I ever coached at TCHS! You and John Paul are hilarious! I check on your guys blog every so often to read your posts, I think it’s excellent. In fact, I had a friend from back in the day in town and we went to lunch and she was pissed at your guys blog because ya’ll whacked her dad in one of your post. Boy ole boy it was a little heated at the lunch table trying defend what you guys are doing. Keep it up and if I am in DC I will let you take me to lunch because I know you are making “big paper” as an attorney.

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caj said:
December 15th, 2007 at 3:18 pm
I was reading through this last night, and didn’t read what ‘askgodforit’ posted because my eyes were starting to water and I was tired.

That was a really good post ‘askgodforit’! Jesus said the greatest commandment was to “love the Lord thy God with all your heart, soul and mind” (Matt.22:37) I think most of Christianity in our day has veered 3 degrees or more!

RP, your thoughts on how shallow the gospel presentation is at CBC was right on. It seems they never get around to the ‘how’ part of making Christianity real for people today. It makes me think they don’t know themselves, or they have substituted material prosperity and ‘belonging’ to their church for a real relationship with Christ.

I will, however, have to differ from your thoughts about God ordaining EVERYTHING that happens in this world. I believe that this world is a fallen place, and is currently under the control of the evil one. 1 John 5:19 tells us, “We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.” In Luke 4:5-6, Jesus is being tempted by satan, “And he led Him up and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said to Him, I will give You all this domain and it’s glory; for it has been handed over to me, and I give it to whomever I wish.”

We are aliens here, representing another kingdom. We should be showing this world what things would be like if Christ was in control. His complete control will come later, as described in Revelation 10:15, “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord, and of His Christ; and He will reign forever and ever.”

Bad things can and do happen, that are not the will of God. This is why we should pray daily not to be led into temptation and to be delivered from the evil one. (The Lords’ Prayer) We are at war here, and behind enemy lines. We suffer and take casualties, but they are not all from God’s hand. (He does prune and chastise His own, but I don’t include murder, rape, torture as being from Him)

Thanks for giving me a place to post up my thoughts! I tried to be to the point and keep it short, but it is a large subject. I’d enjoy hearing other opinions!

from whatHesaid from a different location.

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checkmarks said:
December 15th, 2007 at 6:18 pm
That sounds just like what all the sermons at CBC are like.. horrible.

so so horrible.

UGH

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anna said:
December 15th, 2007 at 11:15 pm
Ok, so I just listened to the “peace” sermon. And all I can say is… aaaaargh!!! What’s the deal with these self-centered sermons? These sermons that infer that God exists for our benefit?

Does God give us peace? Yes. Does He give us all these other things (think Matt 6:33). And Psalm 103 says “Forget not all of His benefits…”

But they are BY-PRODUCTS of the main thing. If you entice people to God because of the benefits, then you will have very bitter people after awhile. (Yes! I used the word!) And you will have people who have no idea what wrath and repentance mean. He mentions John 3:16 and talks about the gift, but skips over the “perish” part. Well, that’s the reason for the gift!

Before I start a sermon of my own, let me quote John Piper:

The love of God toward us is not Him making much of us, but His (at the cost of His Son’s life) enabling us to enjoy making much of Him forever. And to that end He must reveal Himself to us in all the ways that we can enjoy Him forever. That’s what love means. It is a very God-centered definition of love.

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City Business Church » Blog Archive » Ordaining Evil said:
December 16th, 2007 at 10:16 am
[…] caj recently made this comment on another post: […]

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Brian K said:
December 16th, 2007 at 10:08 pm
Negrodamus says:
Tell the fellaz I said WHASSUUPPP!!!

Hey man, how’s it going? You may remember me from a long trip in a U-Haul all the way from Klamath Falls to PDX hauling everyone’s luggage. To this day I’ve still kept that secret.

Merry Christmas to you and your family.

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Negrodamus said:
December 17th, 2007 at 12:54 pm
You mean me letting you drive without a drivers liscense!!! LOL!!! Good times, very good times…

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Brian K said:
December 17th, 2007 at 9:05 pm
Hey, I think I did a pretty good job. (You slept through the scary parts anyway.)

Hopefully a glass of Glenlivet and maybe a Montecristo together will be in our future one day.

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Negrodamus said:
December 23rd, 2007 at 1:30 pm
Let’s do it BK…We need to catch up.

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Ryan said:
December 26th, 2007 at 12:15 pm
Why don’t you start your own church? It sounds like you know everything.

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catalyst said:
December 26th, 2007 at 12:43 pm
Why don’t you start your own church? It sounds like you know everything.

He has. It’s called City Business Church.

It bears a striking resemblance to a certain large breasted church in NE Portland.

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Ryan said:
December 26th, 2007 at 12:58 pm
How many members to your large breasted church?

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pcurtain said:
December 26th, 2007 at 1:00 pm
depends on cup size

(duh! give an opening like that… sheesh.)
–p

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Ryan said:
December 26th, 2007 at 1:05 pm
Words like duh and sheesh? Sounds like you’re a sharp induvidual.

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FICM said:
December 26th, 2007 at 1:08 pm
Sounds like you’re a sharp induvidual.

I see what you did there. LOL

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catalyst said:
December 26th, 2007 at 1:10 pm
How many members to your large breasted church?

Hundreds of thousands. (I can only wait until our counter hits two million. And then I can say we reach millions). Anywhoo… thanks so much for attending today's service, Ryan.

depends on cup size

Lol.

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pcurtain said:
December 26th, 2007 at 1:12 pm
Ryan on December 26, 2007 at 1:05 pm said:

Words like duh and sheesh? Sounds like you’re a sharp induvidual.

Ummm…. uh… errr… that really should be “Induhvidual”:

http://www.unitedmedia.com/comics/dilbert/dnrc/html/report_an_induhvidual.html

:)
–p

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Ryan said:
December 26th, 2007 at 1:42 pm
i guess you’re write!

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kmom said:
January 10th, 2008 at 4:30 pm
Hey when did you guys go to TCH? Just wondering if I know you

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The Gift of Peace…stressed me out.

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