Believer Bitter over Prosperity Preachings
Posted on December 28th, 2007 by catalyst into the Christian Pop Culture categoryI stole this headline from CNN, because I love that they use "bitter" and "prosperity" in the title. I guess it IS okay to be bitter, you know, if your pastor is ripping you off.
Excerpts from this fantastic article:
And so the 53-year-old accountant from the Tampa, Florida, area pledged $500 a year to Joyce Meyer, the evangelist whose frank talk about recovering from childhood sexual abuse was so inspirational. She wrote checks to flamboyant faith healer Benny Hinn and a local preacher-made-good, Paula White.
Only the blessings didn't come. Fleenor ended up borrowing money from friends and payday loan companies just to buy groceries. At first she believed the explanation given on television: Her faith wasn't strong enough.
"I wanted to believe God wanted to do something great with me like he was doing with them," she said. "I'm angry and bitter about it. Right now, I don't watch anyone on TV hardly."
The silver lining to the upcoming US recession is that more people are going to realize that God doesn't necessarily want them to be rich.
The article continues:
The modern-day prosperity movement can largely be traced back to evangelist Oral Roberts' teachings.
That explains Frank's obsession with wealth.
Critics acknowledge the idea that God wants to bless his followers has a Biblical basis, but say prosperity preachers take verses out of context. The prosperity crowd also fails to acknowledge Biblical accounts that show God doesn't always reward faithful believers, Palmer said.
The Book of Job is a case study in piety unrewarded, and a chapter in the Book of Hebrews includes a litany of believers who were tortured and martyred, Palmer said.
One of my first posts on this blog was a study in the life of Job.
If you want to believe in the Prosperity Doctrine, fine, go for it. But you're going to be a very disappointed person. A much better "Doctrine" to follow is the "Job Doctrine".
"Naked I have come from my mothers womb, and naked I will depart. The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away. Blessed be the name of the Lord." - Job 1:21
(H/T to Locutus)
December 28th, 2007 at 6:00 am
I just saw that on CNN, and came over here to see if anything about it was up yet. Hahahaha, a ‘bitter’ believer has made the headlines on CNN!
Way to stay on top of the issues Cat! Good job.
December 28th, 2007 at 6:03 am
Actually, you can thank Locutus, and the fact that it’s Friday and I got the Venti from Starbucks this morning.
December 28th, 2007 at 10:07 am
Ok, I will chime in. Yes many TBN preachers and even local congregations have the prosperity doctrine wrong. Giving money away will not make you rich, even if your giving it away to a preacher.
But one thing the NT can be summed up is that there is hope, faith, and God has a destiny for everyone. If you can find your destiny and follow it God will provide the way for you to accomplish what he has for you. And that destiny is not to be a bum on the street. He will provide everything you need. Now Americans might have a perverted view of what is prosperity.
I tend to look at it this way: Shalom = Peace = Nothing missing or nothing broken.
A loving family, a house over your head, food in your pantry, collectors paid and a steady income. When you have these needs done only then can you have true peace in your life or Shalom.
So its true not every Christian will be a millionaire and not all millionaires are Christians/Jews. But if you follow the proverbs, keep the commandments on your heart, and love others truly, you will succeed in what God has destined for you.
For me and my wife that means a 6 figure combined income in the USA with a large enough home to meet the needs of our expanding family and bring in some orphans to raise as our own. And a few toys so all the kids (including me
can enjoy this life. Our destiny is to help a few orphans have a healthy life and teach all of our children in the ways of Christ. To belong to a Mega Church and get to know as many people personally and have personal relationships with real people and real families. So that even in a Mega Church you can find life long friends that can count on you and you can count on them. To make it personal not some distant “program” or some mathematical equation that equals becoming a billionaire.
Please show me the scripture that shows Jesus telling someone that the cancer they have is because God wanted to teach them a lesson, or that God wanted you to be a street person so you could “save” other street people. If you want to save street people … Create a shelter and provide the basic needs. If someone doesn’t have the basics then they can not hear the message.
December 28th, 2007 at 10:46 am
I hope no one else reading this blog buys into this bullsh*t.
I know we’ve been over this again and again, but let’s cover it one more time for the new guy…
Look at the lives of Jesus and the Apostles and tell me if they have “Shalom” according to your definition.
“God’s destiny for your life” may be that you be hung upside down on a cross in the ocean waiting until the tide comes in for you to die.
Shalom.
December 28th, 2007 at 10:51 am
NBCC….Are you saying that if your definition of basic needs are not met in your or any Christians life they cannot have true peace?
December 28th, 2007 at 11:10 am
—“God’s destiny for your life” may be that you be hung upside down on a cross in the ocean waiting until the tide comes in for you to die.—
Agreed. And it still might be the destiny in my life or my children’s life. I will continue to preach the “Good News” regardless of the government or evil idiots that are around us. That doesn’t contradict anything I have said.
I raise all my children that being a martyr is a real possibility to prepare them for that day. But I will still believe the verse:
Matthew 6:26
Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they?
God will provide for our lives. If your a missionary or have another destiny God will provide a way for you to do what HE HAS CALLED YOU TO DO. This is often different then what you want to do for God. If the government or other evil people kill you for your beliefs well then that is what it is.
Believing God will provide for you is not contrary to one day you might be martyred for your faith. Living a prosperous life, a successful life is not saying bad things will not happen. But God provides a way.
Paul was ship wreaked on an island (jailed and going to Rome to be prosecuted). He had nothing when he landed but left the Island with boats and riches (he could have bailed out and went anywhere at that point btw) but he decided (or chose) to continue to Rome. He left the island with much riches to fulfill his destiny that God had given him.
December 28th, 2007 at 11:20 am
NBCC,
Check out the parable of the rich man and Lasarus in Luke 16:19-31.
Lasarus looks like the street person to me.
December 28th, 2007 at 11:49 am
NBCC..was that an answer to my question? Forgive me but I was looking for more of a yes or no answer.
December 28th, 2007 at 11:57 am
oh wow, have you taken that out of context.
1. Nowhere in that parable does it say anything about what God had or has for Lazarus. This parable is not about Lazarus or being a beggar. It is not about becoming a beggar to get into heaven. This story is about “The rich man”.
2. The context of “The Rich Man” is that he was un-compassionate. And the story is a foretelling of Christ “raising from the dead”. That even after hearing of Christ Raising from the Dead un-compassionate people will not turn from their evil ways.
3. —between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.— This tells us that our decisions on earth are final. That we can not cross over to “save” others and sinners can not be redeemed after death. The lesson of compassion was not learned in his lifetime and therefor his eternal life is set and can not be reversed by the compassion of those saved.
4. This whole parable is not about being sick and poor gets you into heaven. If it was why would Christ have healed the sick and denied them of their heaven?
My last comment is: Let those who have ears to hear, hear. You are sort of twisted in your poverty mentality and I do not think all the scriptures in the world will change your world view.
December 28th, 2007 at 12:00 pm
I can’t believe I read the same Bible as Former NBCC Member. All we have to do is hear what Paul said:
When you get peace (Shalom) from having a roof over your head and money in the bank that’s called IDOLOTRY. Our only peace is our Lord Christ Jesus. The peace of Jesus Christ does not come through material blessing, but through salvation independent of material blessing.
I am floored by the foolishness of this gospel of prosperity.
December 28th, 2007 at 12:01 pm
—-NBCC….Are you saying that if your definition of basic needs are not met in your or any Christians life they cannot have true peace?—
Yes! Clear enough?
but I am sure you worded this in such a way that you are trying to trap me in some argument to take what I exactly said out of context so you can prove some point that is irrelevant.
December 28th, 2007 at 12:10 pm
This actually explains a lot of your comments.
If your belief in Christ is based on feeling good and everything going well, then it’s not much of a belief. But I suspect 90% of Christians hold similar beliefs.
December 28th, 2007 at 12:26 pm
—If your belief in Christ is based on feeling good and everything going well, then it’s not much of a belief. But I suspect 90% of Christians hold similar beliefs.—
My point exactly: but I am sure you worded this in such a way that you are trying to trap me in some argument to take what I exactly said out of context so you can prove some point that is irrelevant.
Well done catalyst.
Where did I say that my belief in Christ is based on feeling good and everything going well? My point is the same … Over and Over again the bible gives us the answers to overcome. Not that we will not have challenges. Gods “Will” for us is that we are Healthy Wealthy and Wise (as the old saying goes) it was in the OT, it was in the time of Christ, it is today.
December 28th, 2007 at 12:32 pm
Craig:
—When you get peace (Shalom) from having a roof over your head and money in the bank that’s called IDOLOTRY.—
Hmm I don’t think I said anything about a bank? You can have peace in Thailand Guatemala or some other 3rd world place. I believe I said you can be successful in what God’s destiny is for you. God will provide.
Also you took one part of 1 Corinthians 4 to make a point. No better then the TBN prosperity teachers you despise. Paul did not live a broken life, he was very successful in his life and the destiny God gave him and for the most part wealthy always healthy (even the poisonous snake could not kill him) and very wise. I could only hope that I have as much impact on the world as Paul did. But I will make due with the small influence that God has asked me to make.
December 28th, 2007 at 12:34 pm
You say it right here:
December 28th, 2007 at 12:43 pm
You are right, because Paul doesn’t sound like he is having “your best life now”.
Remember when Paul prayed for the “thorn in his side” to be removed, and God said no? Why? Because God’s Grace is enough. Paul said he learned to abound AND lack…but neither of those things moved him.
Basically saying that neither state is necessarily God’s will…we need to learn to look to eternity and not preach a false gospel of prosperity. I don’t think you making 6 figures and helping people is bad…I think preaching a Gospel that assumes that God wants us to be “healthy wealthy and wise” is misguided and dangerous (as the CNN article points out).
Even Jesus didn’t have a home over His head…
December 28th, 2007 at 12:55 pm
NBCC…I don’t believe anyone is trying to trap you..I tried to be careful to use your words in my question in order to know whether I understood you correctly…Your Dec. 28th post included the comment…”When you have these needs done only then can you have true peace in your life.” Your response: “Yes! Clear enough! What part of this did I take out of context?
December 28th, 2007 at 1:14 pm
catalyst said:
You say it right here:
NO I did not say it. God said it right here:
1- “And if you obey the voice of the LORD your God, being careful to do all his commandments which I command you this day, the LORD your God will set you high above all the nations of the earth.
2- And all these blessings shall come upon you and overtake you, if you obey the voice of the LORD your God.
3- Blessed shall you be in the city, and blessed shall you be in the field.
4- Blessed shall be the fruit of your body
5- Blessed shall be your basket and your kneading-trough. , and the fruit of your ground, and the fruit of your beasts, the increase of your cattle, and the young of your flock.
6- Blessed shall you be when you come in, and blessed shall you be when you go out
7- “The LORD will cause your enemies who rise against you to be defeated before you; they shall come out against you one way, and flee before you seven ways… (Deut.28:1-7).
You may read it in full in Deut.28:1-14.
Deuteronomy 8:18
But remember the LORD your God, for it is he who gives you the ability to produce wealth, and so confirms his covenant, which he swore to your forefathers, as it is today.
- but showing love to a thousand {generations} of those who love me and keep my commandments.
The blessing of the Lord makes one rich.” Proverbs 10:22
The Lord bless thee, and keep thee:
The Lord make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:
The Lord lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.
(Numbers 6:24-26)
May God be gracious to us and bless us and make his face shine upon us, that your ways may be known on earth, your salvation among all nations. Psalm 67:2-3
God has pleasure in the prosperity of His servant. Psalm 35:27
The Lord shall preserve thee from all evil: he shall preserve thy soul. The Lord shall preserve thy going out and thy coming in from this time forth, and even for evermore.
(Psalm 121:7-8)
Isaiah 53:5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed.
Psalm 121:7-8 The LORD will keep you from all harm— he will watch over your life; the LORD will watch over your coming and going both now and forevermore.
“House and riches [are] the inheritance of fathers: and a prudent wife [is] from the LORD. Proverbs 19:14.
“He who tills his land will have plenty of bread, but he who follows worthless pursuits will have plenty of poverty Prov. 28:19
Peace be to this house! Luke 10:5
Peace be with you!Luke 24:36
3 John 1:2 Dear friend, I pray that you may enjoy good health and that all may go well with you, even as your soul is getting along well.
Jesus Christ “became poor, that you through His poverty might become rich.” 2 Corinthians 8:9
God is not selfish or stingy but “gives us richly all things to enjoy.” 1 Timothy 6:17
Christians are joint heirs with Christ. Romans 8:17
With Him God also freely gave us all things. Romans 8:32
We will reign (as kings) in life through Jesus Christ. Romans 5:17
2 Corinthians 9:9 Sowing Generously 6Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously. 7Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. 8And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that in all things at all times, having all that you need, you will abound in every good work. 9As it is written: “He has scattered abroad his gifts to the poor; his righteousness endures forever.”[a] 10Now he who supplies seed to the sower and bread for food will also supply and increase your store of seed and will enlarge the harvest of your righteousness. 11You will be made rich in every way so that you can be generous on every occasion, and through us your generosity will result in thanksgiving to God. 12This service that you perform is not only supplying the needs of God’s people but is also overflowing in many expressions of thanks to God. 13Because of the service by which you have proved yourselves, men will praise God for the obedience that accompanies your confession of the gospel of Christ, and for your generosity in sharing with them and with everyone else. 14And in their prayers for you their hearts will go out to you, because of the surpassing grace God has given you. 15Thanks be to God for his indescribable gift!
1 Timothy 6:6-10
6But godliness with contentment is great gain. 7For we brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out of it. 8But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with that. 9People who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge men into ruin and destruction. 10For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.
The God of peace be with you all Romans 15:33
The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit, sisters and brothers.Galatians 6:18
Jesus Heals the Sick 23Jesus went throughout Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, preaching the good news of the kingdom, and healing every disease and sickness among the people.
What scripture here was God deceiving us?
December 28th, 2007 at 1:18 pm
We clearly disagree on this issue. Fine, believe what you want. I just think it’s a ridiculous belief.
December 28th, 2007 at 1:29 pm
What would you say to poor Christians? They are not in God’s will?
I think the difference you and I have is that I look to the promises of Christ and don’t think of earthly things (money, house, clothes).
If God wanted to establish His covenant the way you describe in accordance with Deut 8, why were so many Christians fed to the lions, had their property taken, burned, crucified, sawn in two, were destitute (See the end of Hebrews 11)? There are only 2 options I can see:
1. They were not Christians
2. That is not a promise of His new Covenant in Jesus Christ
Can you think of any other options here?
I think Jesus said it well:
You quoted 1 Timothy 6:8
I agree with that.
December 28th, 2007 at 1:36 pm
Id like to jump in just add that Ive been very poor and was very bitter towards people that talked about prosperity etc. but I found a friend that lived a life of giving and he explained to me the principle of sowing and reaping I learned that a man doesnt give to a church he should give to God willingly and if you continue to learn to be a giving person in everything you do your whole life will change. Mine did. The woman that gave her money should not give up hope but keep on believing God is not moved by a persons problems but only by there faith. And Jesus himself the greatest preacher that ever lived taught more about money then any other subjuct including heaven and hell. Of course nothing should come before or love for our saviour, who was the greatest giver who ever lived…the only time he was poor was when he was sick and that was when he died for us all.
December 28th, 2007 at 1:36 pm
—-Even Jesus didn’t have a home over His head…—
Umm? Where does the bible say that? He traveled and stayed many places and with many people. But outside of the Garden (and they went to pray not sleep although the disciples fell asleep) Where did Jesus sleep outside?
Other times they kinda camped .. that was common in that day. Just because I go to a park and pitch a tent doesn’t mean I am homeless.
Jesus had a Mega Church. He preached to 3000 and 5000 everywhere. He had a treasury that Judah held for them. It also says that Jesus’s ministry was provided by wealthy women. I am just missing the homeless Jesus story in the Gospels could you please point that one out to me?
December 28th, 2007 at 1:42 pm
Not Judah … sorry Judas
December 28th, 2007 at 1:48 pm
fNBBCM,
Talk about putting words in people’s mouths…who here has a poverty mentality?
Craig, thanks for your comments…I appreciate your balanced and Biblical view of life (health, wealth, and prosperity).
December 28th, 2007 at 1:52 pm
—Craig said:
December 28th, 2007 at 1:29 pm
What would you say to poor Christians? They are not in God’s will?
I think the difference you and I have is that I look to the promises of Christ and don’t think of earthly things (money, house, clothes).—
Craig:
Honestly this is the best question asked today. Yes of course they are in God’s will. Just the same as a Christian with Cancer is in God’s will. But that doesn’t mean that God wants them to be poor. He looks for opportunities to give us what we need. He also looks for those opportunities to heal us. All I know is I could not find the scripture in the bible that Jesus did not heal someone who asked him. I think God is still the same.
I don’t have all the answers, I like to believe the bible does have most of them. I don’t know why everyone doesn’t get healed the 1st time they go up and pray. I don’t know why we have to do so much to become prosperous. But I do know that at every turn God tells us he wants things for us. Maybe it’s God’s plan for some Christian who is really struggling to be given their full needs by the Church, maybe the Church is in sin about this. Maybe some people need to adjust their mindset about money as it might get in the way of their love for Christ.
I don’t know, but I can not deny what the bible says just because it did not work for someone else. I found my destiny after prayer and fasting. I know what God wants for my family and I am taking them (my family) in that direction. I have been blessed on earth according to the scriptures
That is my testimony.
I have been dirt poor as a Christian too. But I really did not understand Love and compassion at the time. I just don’t have all the answers.
December 28th, 2007 at 2:55 pm
It’s in God’s will that they are poor but that doesn’t mean that God wants them to be?
Seriously Dude, you gotta rethink your theology a little bit.
December 28th, 2007 at 3:36 pm
Paul and Former NBCC member,
I am a successful CPA (ironic huh), but just because I am successful it doesn’t mean it is God’s will for all believers.
I think the problem is we in Americans have a twisted form of prosperity that includes the comforts of this life. I think Jesus has a completely different view of prosperity.
Jesus first talks to those who lack the things of this world:
Then Jesus talks to those that had the abundance of this world:
Jesus talked a lot about money…and it was mostly warnings against seeking it. I don’t see any scriptures where Jesus said if we follow Him God will make our life comfortable.
In the parable of the sower, the 3rd seed was rendered ineffective because the cares of this world choked out the gospel after the seed fell on good soil.
December 28th, 2007 at 4:24 pm
I dont believe you can seperate soul prosperity from financial increase. It is Gods will for all believers to live in prosperity,but like so many believers they dont want to. Well thanks for your thoughts be blessed…
December 28th, 2007 at 4:24 pm
I need some Dramamine… you all are making me dizzy…
December 28th, 2007 at 4:52 pm
Jesus did. See my previous post with the quotes of Jesus from Revelation 3. He directly separates the soul prosperity with financial prosperity. In the eyes of Jesus, the two are not related at all.
If it were God’s will that all believers live in financial prosperity, they would. I can confidently say all believers live in soul prosperity…you know why, because they will inherit ETERNAL LIFE! You cannot say all believers live in financial prosperity…because they don’t. That is just an illogical and unbiblical belief.
December 28th, 2007 at 5:04 pm
Paul …why would you say many believers don’t want to live in prosperity?
December 28th, 2007 at 5:51 pm
Craig:
—If it were God’s will that all believers live in financial prosperity, they would. I can confidently say all believers live in soul prosperity…you know why, because they will inherit ETERNAL LIFE!—
This logic doesn’t hold up when you bounce it towards other biblical blessings. Such as Health. It is absolutely obvious to anyone who has read the NT that Jesus wants us healed. He healed he came to heal by his stripes we are healed. It is 100% of God’s will that we are all healed and walk in healing. Further the disciples healed others, some guy who was not “one of them” was able to heal people in Jesus’s name. Why are people sick? Why are we not laying hands on everyone and there is no sickness in the world.
My point is easy: It is God’s Will that we are healed. It is God’s will that we live in prosperity. Yes we don’t know all the answers, Yes not all of us can live up to this expectation. Yes some people/churches use healing and prosperity to scam people. But it still doesn’t take away what the bible says about these things.
As far as Jesus talking against rich people. Several issues have to be put in perspective. 1. Jesus was preaching to Jews. 2 The Jews ALREADY knew the blessings that God wanted. There was never a question to them that God wanted them to be wealthy. 3 This was the days of Rome where money had become many peoples god. Many people (Jews) grew arrogant and loved money. Many people where not compassionate.
I believe I have made a very biblical presentation that balanced wealth with compassion. Thats it. Other than that we can agree to disagree.
December 28th, 2007 at 5:53 pm
fNBCC…The Lord said My peace I give to you; not as the world gives, do I give to you. Jo.14:27 … the peace of God transcends all understanding . Philip.4:7 … I believe God wants us to know that we can have absolute assurance of a supernatural peace in Him only as believers no matter what our circumstances… Even when we have - no loving family - no house/roof over our head - no food in the pantry - collectors not paid - and no steady income…The world preaches to us that we must have these things and circumstances in order to have true peace. God assures us otherwise.
December 28th, 2007 at 6:19 pm
Caj:
—-I believe God wants us to know that we can have absolute assurance of a supernatural peace in Him only as believers no matter what our circumstances… Even when we have - no loving family - no house/roof over our head - no food in the pantry - collectors not paid - and no steady income…The world preaches to us that we must have these things and circumstances in order to have true peace. God assures us otherwise.—-
Caj I just disagree with what your saying here. Yes its all true, but the supernatural peace Christ gives us is Hope and Faith to look forward that these things will be made whole.
Christ did a lot of things for us on that cross. It would take a full year to go over every aspect of the Bible. And for the most part you don’t want to hear it. Your convinced that prosperity and healing are for con artists. Well then I will go in peace.
December 28th, 2007 at 6:21 pm
fnbcc,
I don’t think it is God’s will all believers are healed…you know why. They aren’t. God is powerful enough, that if He wanted to heal everyone we would be healed.
Let us look at the scripture you use “by His stripes we are healed”. If you read Isaiah, I don’t think you get the sense he is talking about the flu or cancer…Isaiah says sickness is sin (read Isaiah 1:5 and 33:24). The sickness he is talking about is our relationship to God…
So the Bible says God is faithful and just to forgive us. Who is God faithful to? Jesus…because Jesus paid the price for our sin. If you think Jesus also paid the price for our flu and cancer, then if every believer is not completely healthy…God is being unfaithful and unjust to Jesus Christ who took the stripes to pay for healing (according to you). Do you see the problem with your interpretation of this?
This, coupled with how Isaiah used the term sickness to mean we are cut off from God means he was not talking about healing our cancer or flu. Does this mean God wants us to be sick? NO. Does God still heal? Yes, but it is an act of mercy, not justice or a right owed to us from the FINISHED work on the cross. If the work was finished on the cross, how can we still get sick? God cannot be mocked.
Not to mention no (respected) believer taught this health and wealth gospel until the mid 1900’s…well, except Christian Science.
I refuse to agree to disagree, because either I am right or you are right…or we are both wrong. I want to know the truth, because anything else is spiritually and intellectually lazy.
December 28th, 2007 at 6:35 pm
Also, Matthew thought the physical healing portion of Jesus’s ministry was done while He walked the earth, not on the cross:
Notice, this was FULFILLED when He actually healed people, not a payment Jesus made on the cross.
My previous pastor got cancer. My question is, if he is healed by the stripes of Jesus, yet still has cancer in His body, how can he be assured his sins are forgiven? I think by viewing healing in the atonement work of Christ as a “right” for believers just like forgiveness…then if we aren’t all healed physically, how can we reasonably be sure we are healed spiritually?
Once again, there are only a few options:
1. Healing isn’t a right from the cross
2. God is unjust to Jesus Christ (since he took stripes for our healing but we aren’t healed)
3. Sick people aren’t saved
If you look at how Peter used that quote from Isaiah, it supports my view:
Peter explains how we were healed…we are restored to the Shepherd and Bishop of our souls! Amen.
December 28th, 2007 at 8:35 pm
fNBCC…Wow! That covered alotta territory…You’re saying..1..I disagree with what you’re saying here..2..Yes its all true,but..3..And for the most part you don’t want to hear it..4..You are convinced prosperity and healing are for con artists. fNBCC..you say that God’s peace is hope and faith to look forward that these things will be made whole. I’m referring to the peace that means - inner contentment - serenity - tranquility & freedom from strife. You say what I said was all true - BUT, you disagree with what I say. I’ve never said prosperity and healing are for con artists and I do want to hear what you have to say, that’s why I respond to your posts. The issue, I believe, is I pray that you develop a greater view of what the Lord has for you regarding prosperity, wealth, etc. It’s far more important than money and material things. That’s what’s so painful to see, is that the emphasis is so heavy on money and material things, at the expense of spiritual prosperity/wealth. God knows what most of us will gravitate towards naturally. There’s a reason Christ told us in scripture to “Seek ye first His kingdom and His righteousness; and all these things shall be added to you.” Focus on Him - NOT on what He can give us. I just don’t see that focus in many of our churches, it’s a lot of entertainment and push for more finances for more programs and more entertainment.
December 29th, 2007 at 7:36 am
To deal with this issue, one must look at it through the lenses of the gospel. For instance, in the gospel we find it neither more virtuous to be rich or poor. In other words, the “prosperity camp” thinks it is more righteous/virtuous to be “rich” and “prosperous” as if one can measure their collective spirituality by it. On the other side, the “poverty camp” assumes it is more blessed to live “poor” and “meager” as if it proves greater allegiance and fidelity to God. Both either side can error, one by focusing on “having stuff” and the by focusing on “giving up stuff” to earn or curry God’s favor, approval and/or peace.
For instance, when FORMER NBCC, who obviously holds to some tenets of the WoF movement says,
“I tend to look at it this way: Shalom = Peace = Nothing missing or nothing broken.
A loving family, a house over your head, food in your pantry, collectors paid and a steady income. When you have these needs done only then can you have true peace in your life or Shalom.”
It makes a brutha like me, as Nathan McCall put it, “WANNA HOLLA”. I have read this and reread this quote by you, former NBCC, and it seems so “insane in the membrane” (I think that was HOUSE OF PAIN). You really believe if SHALOM = PEACE, and PEACE = NOTHING MISSING/BROKEN, then HAVING STUFF (family, food, collectors paid,etc) = TRUE PEACE. I assume this is your working definition of peace. If this is true then peace is found in “PROVISION/STUFF”, not in a “PERSON/JC”. Doesn’t the bible say CHRIST is our PEACE (Ephesians 2:14)?
I mean, if we experience the loss of family, home, influence, resources, does this mean we lose our peace? I think the bible says the opposite,
Mark 10:29-30
29Jesus said, “Truly I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or farms, for My sake and for the gospel’s sake,
30but that he will receive a hundred times as much now in the present age, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and farms, along with persecutions; and in the age to come, eternal life.
Former NBCC, do you see what Jesus is saying in the gospel of Mark? He saying whatever you give up or lose for “MY SAKE” and the “GOSPEL SAKE” HE will make it up in your life with HIS PRESENCE, a 100x’s as much now. So if a missionary forsakes the comforts of home and lives in let’s say, the 1040 window, where Christ is not named, the promise of these verses is that the comfort of home and fellowship you “gave up”, Christ will “make up” in His own presence your life on the mission field. This is why Christ has to be our peace because all this other sh#t comes and goes and at the end of the day will rob us of peace..
On another note, if my peace is conditioned on the “stuff” that I have, than I will never have peace, because at what point do I have enough stuff to ensure God’s peace in my life? Is it one house or two to get peace? Is it a Cadillac or BMW? 50k annual salary or 100k salary? It just get’s nonsensical and maddening, because at some point, I cease to find peace and rest in Him and thus start trying to “earn” or “work” for this phantom peace in and through “STUFF”. Peace is graciously given, not earned, at least that’s what John 14:27 teaches the last time I checked.
In fact, when you read Romans 8:32-33,
32He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things?
Here it simply says, that God did not spare His Son, but graciously gave Him up for us, thus, anything He gives to us is given graciously. This means receiving Jesus is strictly grace and anything we get from JESUS, i.e. home, family, good job, etc. is given by grace, which means we can’t earn it and that includes the peace we have.
In conclusion, I see you really love math, so with that, let me give the formula that adds up to gospel peace:
Jesus + Nothing = Real PEACE (Real Gospel)
Jesus + Anything (family, food, house,etc…) = False Peace (False Gospel)
December 29th, 2007 at 7:48 am
Let me restate the formula this way:
Jesus + “no other prerequisite” to gaining peace = Real Gospel
Jesus + “any other prerequisite” to gaining peace = False Gospel
December 29th, 2007 at 8:17 am
Just to respond. A man has a will of his own if he chooses to not believe that he should have increase in his life God doesnt force it on him but that doesnt affect his salvation, he just wont have something he could have had. I believe a mans own will ultimatly wins because God doesnt force his on us.And I believe that that money itself is not sinful but the love of is. Have a blessed day because Jesus Christ is Lord
December 29th, 2007 at 8:49 am
ND:
You nailed it ! The gospel is really quite simple. As simple as you stated it. You said it well. I consider so much of what is written above to be no more than a bunch of “hogwash”. It is a great example of what the “bible scholars” have created by their “intellect” over the generations.
But, on the other hand, I guess all this makes for a lot of fun discussion for most of the bloggies.
December 29th, 2007 at 8:52 am
Paul,
With all due respect, this sounds like when I witness to Mormons or Jehova’s Witnesses or post-modern athiests. I reject prosperity and WOF not because I want to, but because scripture demands it. What do you have to say about scripture? Specifically, what do you have to say about the scriptures we laid out for you? WHENEVER I talk to prosperity and WOF people they stop talking about scripture really quick (that includes Pastor Wendell). You have to rely on the assumption I just don’t want prosperity…you are wrong. I just want God has given.
Are we right or wrong, and why?
December 29th, 2007 at 9:55 am
Wow your going to love this, and I hope this helps you go to kcm.org and download the 64 page ebook titled the laws of prosperity. Its from Gen to Rev. if you really want to submit to the word then check this out, and just so you know Im as far from a Morman etc as you can imagine, Ive led 1000’s of people to Christ all over the world and from some of the worst places you might imagine. Please down load the book its a great resource. Its all just the bible.
December 29th, 2007 at 10:17 am
You are using Kennith Kopeland? You really don’t get it, how do you reconcile his “booklet” with the scriptures I pointed out?
How is that senate investigation going for him?
December 29th, 2007 at 10:35 am
Paul…How many people do you run across that ‘choose to not believe that they should not have increase in their life”? I don’t think I personally ever have. What kind of circles do you run in?…
December 29th, 2007 at 1:26 pm
Craig
He is passing with flying colors he has alot of info on his website that you would find informing.
Its crazy I agree but its amazing how many people think its Holy or that it makes God feel proud that they are broke, some dont admit it but there actions scream it. I love being able to help folks in need and to pay someones bills is a real blessing, that is a blessing I have been on the recieving end at times in my life and people that helped me the most have people faith..It sounds like many people have been hurt or let down by pastors and preachers I have to but dont put them in a class of bad bad people because you know there is none good none so please give some of these people like K.C..J.D O.R. K.D. a chance and pray for them and if you fear God at all I highly recommend repenting for the words you have spoken against them..
December 29th, 2007 at 2:04 pm
I know Copeland and his false gospel very well…
WOF, little gods, ect. He got it from Hagin, who got it from E.W. Kenyon who “borrowed” from christian science…
It is a new gospel, another gospel.
The whole basis is that Jesus defines prosperity as copeland does…all we have to do is look at Revelation 3 and read how Jesus defines prospeirty (among many other verses) to see prosperity isn’t how the “prosperity gospel” defines it.
The prosperity gospel is the anti gospel because it takes money from the poor and needy and gives to the rich pastors. Simple equasion, great business.
December 29th, 2007 at 2:18 pm
Oh yeah…and he says Jesus was born again…blasphemy. Jesus had no reason to be born again…He was perfect.
If he says these things about our Lord, why should we trust him on money? Pardon my blutness, but all he runs is a ponzi scheme.
December 29th, 2007 at 3:30 pm
Good points Craig! The whole ‘tithing’, ‘faith harvest’, give to our building project is presented as an opportunity for God to ‘bless’ you.
This is nearly an exact reversal of the early church as seen in Acts 2:45-47. In that case, people of means SOLD houses and lands and gave the money so no one would be in need.
In spite of the fact that a lot of money had been ‘laid at the apostles feet’, we see Peter in Acts 3:6 telling the lame man, “I do not posses silver and gold”! This is plain evidence that the ‘Chief Apostle’ did not hold to WoF type doctrine!
December 29th, 2007 at 9:54 pm
Ok I will chime in again (shees I did not realize I would cause such an uproar with my original statements).
1st I have to address Caj:
—-In spite of the fact that a lot of money had been ‘laid at the apostles feet’, we see Peter in Acts 3:6 telling the lame man, “I do not posses silver and gold”! This is plain evidence that the ‘Chief Apostle’ did not hold to WoF type doctrine!—-
Wow, true very true about how the early church did it. They lived in Kibbutz style life. I don’t think we are required to do the same. Other then small references to people giving to the community the bible doesn’t cover the day to day living of the early Christians very much. I believe this is by design. These things are cultural and do not have a barring on someones walk with God. Much like Church music, some churches sing blues others sing with Southern Gospel or Jazz, others sign in Latin. Its all a matter of culture to dance or to sit. So that is my opinion on that.
2nd Craig:
—-I refuse to agree to disagree, because either I am right or you are right…or we are both wrong. I want to know the truth, because anything else is spiritually and intellectually lazy.—–
True, but seeking the truth in arguing with people is not the best policy. But because you have engaged me respectfully even in our disagreements I will continue to go through some of my beliefs with you.
I do not think we have to agree on everything. I do not think every church has to be 100% right about everything. A church could be doctrinally wrong about not drinking (as I said in another subject http://www.citybusinesschurch.org/blog/2007/11/29/two-fundamentalist-christians-go-on-a-date/
) that Jesus drank alcohol he made alcohol and told us to drink alcohol in communion. And I can still go to a church like that who has the right heart about serving God. Or they might be wrong (or better said I might disagree with them on) about other things but as long as they (the SR Pastor and staff) have the right heart about serving God I can serve God with them. So this idea that we all have to get it perfect I disagree with. I think we all need to have the right heart to Love God with all of our heart and to love our fellow man. I can commune with someone like that and continue down my biblical learning while sharing with others. So sorry it might be intellectually lazy to not argue about these things but I think it can also be a distraction from what is really important.
That being said I will go to the next point:
—- 1. Healing isn’t a right from the cross
2. God is unjust to Jesus Christ (since he took stripes for our healing but we aren’t healed)
3. Sick people aren’t saved —–
This is the kind of argument I guess I wanted to avoid because its so complicated. But I will try, here goes:
1. God created man and gave him dominion to the whole earth.
Gen 1:26-27
2. Man sinned and in doing so voluntarily turned over dominion to Satan.
a: Satan is prince of the world (John 12:31, John 14:30, John 16:11, 1 John 5:19, Luke 11:18)
b: All the kingdoms of the world are Satan’s (Matthew 4:8-10)
c: Satan has all authority in this world, God did not give it to him Adam did when he sinned against God and chose to make Satan his god turning over the dominion that God gave him to his new king.
3. God wipes man of the earth and creates covenant with Noah. This is the 1st covenant of the bible. This covenant we all know says that God will not flood the earth again. But it also says that any man who murders another man should be killed by man. This covenant will continue as long as the earth lives. (Gen 9:1-17)
4. God makes Covenant with Abraham creates Israel as a nation and this nation will continue till the end of time. ((Genesis 12:1-4; 13:14-17; 15:1-18; 17:1-8) Reconfirmed through Isaac (Genesis 26:2-5) Jacob (Genesis 28:1-4, 12-15) Who was Abraham’s second wife? Keturah an Egyptian This covenant is absolutely unconditional!!, is everlasting (Genesis 17:7) and is one of the most profound in Scripture. The sign of the covenant is circumcision. In response to the question, “How may I know that I will possess it?” God establishes a solemn covenant with Abraham. There are no “ifs” in the formal declaration of Genesis 15:7-18. The purpose of the covenant was to prove to Abraham that God would keep His commitment. If it were dependent upon Abraham’s actions it would not have been reconfirmed years later after much sinning, and yet it was reconfirmed to Abraham’s offspring in the same manner it was given to Abraham. (See Genesis 50:24-26 and Exodus 2:24; 6:2-8; Psalm 105:8-11; Luke 1:67-75; Hebrews 6:13-18) It guarantees the permanent existence of Israel as a nation and it guarantees Israel’s permanent ownership of the promised land(Genesis 12:2, 12:7; 13:15; 15:18-21; 17:7-8))
5. Mosaic Covenant Exodus 19:4-6 (YHWH’s) 19:8 (Israel’s) 20:1-31:18 specifics Composed of 613 (365 prohibitions and 248 demands) This is a temporary covenant till Christ.
6. Christ fulfills the Mosaic Covenant - Of all the commandments which are
carried over into the New Testament to the Believer only one is not
binding–the command to keep the Sabbath.
7. Christ takes the keys of dominion from satan
its getting late - and this is now too long for anyone who will read it .. but Jesus took the keys from Satan and gave it to Peter (peter is us all of us with faith)
Much of this was taken for granted during the time of the new church.
December 30th, 2007 at 8:25 am
It seems to me you got to the crux of the matter with this statement, Craig.
Though I may not agree with all of your exegeses (pl.) of the Word, I do think you’re spot on to recognize it ever must be the Scriptures — along with the leading of the Spirit — that trump any discussion, even if many in our day allow the false gods of fallen reasonings and opinions to rule their theology and lives.
Paul describes our day all too well to the young pastor Timothy…
…as well as to the Thessalonians:
-joe
December 30th, 2007 at 9:28 am
Thanks Joebib,
I don’t mind, because I am just a CPA trying to find out what the truth is, and I have been wrong along the way (and I am probably still wrong in some areas).
I just believe that Jesus was telling the truth when He said the Holy Spirit would guide us into all truth, and that’s what i’m looking for. I just happen to be pretty stubborn about these topics…they need to make sense and harmonize with scripture.
I think this is an important one (prospeirity) because the Apostles and Jesus warned us about money quite a lot, and nevere told us to go after it - that I have seen.
December 30th, 2007 at 9:30 am
Former NBCC member,
I agree with what you laid out in your comment about covenants, but I guess I don’t understand what your point is.
December 30th, 2007 at 10:29 am
—–I agree with what you laid out in your comment about covenants, but I guess I don’t understand what your point is.—–
Yea I got tired last night and missed the whole point. The point is through Christ we have been restored to our communion with God as it was in the days of Adam. This is only for the Saved. The unsaved are still in this world. We are above the enemy. We can overcome, this is for today not for after we die (afterlife).
We should be able to conquer sickness, personal pain and even poverty. We have the Holy Spirit in us guiding us, leading us to be successful in the destiny that God has given each one of us. We still have free will and can choose that destiny that God has given us or choose our own. Most of us Christians do not take the time to ask what God wants us to do we are trying to do what we think we can do for God. And although that might be all good and biblical things it may not be what God has for us.
Gotta run to my big mega church this morning so I will have to elaborate more later.
December 30th, 2007 at 11:48 am
You’re not the only one, bro.
Again, same here.
-joebib
December 30th, 2007 at 1:04 pm
What scriptures do you use to back up this assumption. I think this is the big dividing line. I think by conquoring death, Jesus has given us all we need, and sickness, personal pain and poverty are possibly part of the cross we bear unless God heals us. I don’t think there are any promises to the christian of health, wealth and pain-free life.
The bible never warns of of people who give up prosperity, only those who seek it. On the contrary, Jesus tells some to give up all their wealth…but never tells anyone to go get some money.
So what scritpures in the New Testament drive you to think we should be seeking the financial blessing of God?
My experience at a “mega church” is that the promise of fiancial blessing (that i don’t see in the bible) is told to be accessed almost exclusively by tithing or “planting a seed of faith” by writing a check to a mega church.
I think Peter warned us of these people…
Later Peter says they will be like Baalam who was a prophet who used his prophesy for money:
I’m looking forward to your scriptural evidence for thinking prosperity is for all believers today, just for being a christian.
December 30th, 2007 at 9:01 pm
Craig:
—I’m looking forward to your scriptural evidence for thinking prosperity is for all believers today, just for being a christian. —
scroll up I have listed many many scriptures earlier in this. Both new and old testament. The issue is that Jesus did not fulfill the blessings. God still wants to bless us financially. This was never in question to the Jews that Jesus was preaching to. So he also warned of money too. But the fact is God wants to bless us. I have provided you many many scriptures.
December 30th, 2007 at 9:28 pm
god has everything and jesus had nothing (please no comments about jesus being the very essense of god and having all the father has…think, jesus on earth as god’s incarnation to be us).
which one has more peace?
December 30th, 2007 at 9:30 pm
What do you mean that Jesus didn’t fulfill all the blessings? Please be specific…
I sincerely don’t think the scriptures you quoted contradict me, but actually support my point of view. Like the following scripture that tells us to be happy with food and clothes, and not to look for prospeirty…
Please think about that scripture, and tell me how it supports your view. Focus like a laser-beam (as Michael Medved would say). I don’t think that scripture refutes the prosperity gospel at all…it warns against looking for anything more than clothes and food.
So to summarize what I need from you to understand you better:
1. What do you mean that Jesus didn’t fulfill all the blessings…
2. How does that scripture support your view of prospeirty…
Thanks!
Craig
December 31st, 2007 at 6:29 am
I read this far and laughed out loud at the irony. Then I quit reading.
December 31st, 2007 at 10:04 am
I read this far and laughed out loud at the irony. Then I quit reading.
Jesus did have a large following in John Chapter 6 because he prospered them with bread, but once He started talking about eating His flesh and drinking His blood, they bolted and only His disciples remained behind.
I think that is what would happen if the true Gospel of Jesus Christ were to be preached at these mega churches. I find it interesting how Jesus showed no tolerance for people who followed him for earthly provision and drove them away.
December 31st, 2007 at 11:27 am
“I don’t think that scripture refutes the prosperity gospel…” the fact that prosperity even comes before gospel is disturbing…but, once again this kind of mentality comes from building a belief system out of scriptures patch-worked together as the evangelical and charismatic christians have been so fond of doing.
one day, when i have the time, i am going to build from scripture a mountian top gospel. trust me…when i am done you will not be sure if you are saved unless you are a hiker.
peace neither garauntees nor precludes wealth.
peace neither garauntees nor precludes poverty.
9 Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and the seventy elders of Israel went up 10 and saw the God of Israel. Under his feet was something like a pavement made of sapphire, [b] clear as the sky itself. 11 But God did not raise his hand against these leaders of the Israelites; they saw God, and they ate and drank.
12 The LORD said to Moses, “Come up to me on the mountain and stay here, and I will give you the tablets of stone, with the law and commands I have written for their instruction.”
20 The LORD descended to the top of Mount Sinai and called Moses to the top of the mountain. So Moses went up
11 and be ready by the third day, because on that day the LORD will come down on Mount Sinai in the sight of all the people.
just a fore taste of the MOUNTAIN GOSPEL…betta get ya hikin boots…
December 31st, 2007 at 11:51 am
to former: I have something for you to think about: There is a consistent trend in the Bible where people have been tempted to take what God promised to them before the God-appointed time. It happened to Adam, it happened to Abraham. The devil tried it again and again with Jesus, and He refused.
The MSOG doctrine (manifest sons of God) has many truths in it. The problem is that people are trying to move what God promised for the future into the present. It causes lots of problems. The Kingdom Now or Dominion doctrine is a shade less drastic, but still has the same problems.
Now where do you draw the line between what the Lord Jesus promised us for THIS life, and what is promised for after-resurrection life? I don’t know. But this I DO know: When Paul asked for his problem to be removed — yes, he prayed earnestly! — the Lord told him that His grace was enough.
What is grace? It is God’s supernatural ability to do what God asks you to do. His grace is always offerred with His requests. Even the offer of salvation is accompanied by the grace to accept (Ep 2:8-9).
Look at the passage of Phil 3 when Paul talks about knowing Jesus, including the fellowship of His suffering and being conformed to His death. Then he goes on to talk about the resurrection and it sure doesn’t sound like he’s expecting that reality in his present life.
Anyway, I hope I was articulate enough to encourage you to consider that God may not have guaranteed us perfect health and fabulous wealth in this life. But that His promises will end up being fulfilled beyond anything we could think or imagine when all is said and done.
grace
ps to bws: Don’t forget that verse in Isaiah 2 about “come and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord…”
December 31st, 2007 at 1:47 pm
anna:
—-The MSOG doctrine (manifest sons of God) has many truths in it. The problem is that people are trying to move what God promised for the future into the present. It causes lots of problems. The Kingdom Now or Dominion doctrine is a shade less drastic, but still has the same problems.—
Anna: God gave dominion to man. I don’t know if you doubt this or not? But the truth of the bible is the same. This is not some concept made up, its directly in the 1st chapter of Gen.
Christ returned the Holy Spirit to man. Its really not more complicated then that. You can say this and that .. or that church said something wrong or whatever. But Christ returned the Holy Spirit and communion between Man and God to those who are saved. This is true. I actually can not think of anything more true in the bible. Jesus forgave us of our sins and returned the Holy Spirit to us so we could be in direct communion with God. What about this do you have a problem with??????
December 31st, 2007 at 2:10 pm
Craig: I will attempt to address a few of these questions you still have:
———Craig said:
December 30th, 2007 at 1:04 pm
We should be able to conquer sickness, personal pain and even poverty.
What scriptures do you use to back up this assumption. I think this is the big dividing line.———————
1st I need to address sickness. God and his Word is consistent and healing is one of the 1st doctrines of Charismatics that you seem to disagree with so much:
Jesus came to heal. Jesus healed, the disciples healed others, Paul who did not know Jesus when he was alive on earth Healed people. Some guy healed people in Jesus’s Name who was not even part of their group. Paul says some “healers” abused it.
Scriptures about God’s will for healing:
“He sent His word and healed them, and delivered them from their destructions.” (Psalm 107:20)
“Bless the Lord, O my soul, and forget not all His benefits: who forgives all your iniquities; who heals all your diseases …” (Psalm 103:2)
“For I will restore health to you and heal you of your wounds,” says the Lord. (Jeremiah 30:17)
“O Lord my God, I cried out to You, and You have healed me.” (Psalm 30:2)
“But those who seek the Lord shall not lack any good thing.” (Psalm 34:10)
“Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.” (Hebrews 13:8)
Then Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit to Galilee … “The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, because He has anointed Me to preach the gospel to the poor. He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to set at liberty those who are oppressed, to preach the acceptable year of the Lord.” (Luke 4:14,18)
how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.” (Acts 10:38)
“But when Jesus knew it, He withdrew from there; and great multitudes followed Him, and He healed them all.” (Matthew 12:15)
Now here are the specific verses showing you that God does want to anoint His Body to be able to heal others with His supernatural power.
1. And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. And these signs will follow those who believe: in My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.” (Mark 16:15)
2. “Then He called His twelve disciples together and gave them power and authority over all demons, and to cure diseases.” (Luke 9:1)
3. “And He called the twelve to Him, and began to send them out two by two, and gave them power over unclean spirits … And they cast out many demons, and anointed with oil many who were sick, and healed them.” (Mark 6:7,13)
4. “And when He had called His twelve disciples to Him, He gave them power over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease.” (Matthew 10:1)
5. “But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And as you go, preach saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’ “Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out demons. Freely you have received, freely give.” (Matthew 10:6)
6. “Now God worked unusual miracles by the hands of Paul, so that even handkerchiefs or aprons were brought from his body to the sick, and the diseases left them and the evil spirits went out of them.” (Acts 19:11)
7. “And it happened that the father of Publius lay sick of a fever and dysentery. Paul went in to him and prayed, and he laid hands on him and healed him.” (Acts 28:8)
8. “And the multitudes with one accord heeded the things spoken by Philip, hearing and seeing the miracles which he did. For unclean spirits, crying with a loud voice, came out of many who were possessed; and many who were paralyzed and lame were healed.” (Acts 8:6)
9. “Therefore they stayed there a long time, speaking boldly in the Lord, who was bearing witness to the word of His grace, granting signs and wonders to be done by their hands.” (Acts 14:3)
10. “And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.” (Matthew 16:19)
11. “Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all. But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all:
For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.” (