Senator Grassley Not Giving Up!
Posted on January 10th, 2008 by catalyst into the Reasons why I love life category"It's a new year and the ministries that have chosen not to cooperate have a chance to see the inquiry in a new light," Grassley said in a prepared statement issued Tuesday. "This has nothing to do with church doctrine. It's only about tax-exempt policy."
And other charities are not too happy with the lack of cooperation either:
"The result could mean increased regulation or legislation for all non-profits, religious or otherwise," said Doug Shaw of Douglas Shaw Associates. "It could also further threaten the separation of church and state."
This is not going to end well for the ministeries that fail to answer the senator's requests.
RSS feed for posts
January 10th, 2008 at 6:25 am
so which ones have cooperated and which ones haven’t. I saw Creflo Dollar did. And Paula White is done actively pastoring since she divorced. So that takes care of her. Weren’t there four others? Let’s see, Benny Hinn, and which other three?
January 10th, 2008 at 6:45 am
I don’t know who has or hasn’t complied. I’m not sure any of them fully complied.
Here’s a quote from another article:
“When asked by Larry King why Dollar was unwilling to provide Grassley with a full accounting of his ministry’s financial matters, Dollar said he was acting on the basis of “principle” only.”
He should try that line in court as well. I’m sure it will work just fine.
January 10th, 2008 at 10:14 am
So that takes care of her? Exactly what is meant by that statement?
You have to understand where Pastor Dollar is coming from on this. You are taking the excerpt completely out of context. When he made that statement it was preceded by another statement. He announced that had complied with everything the IRS has asked him to do and he didn’t feel why it was necessary for him to provide this guy what he is asking for without cause. Pastor Dollar also stated that if the court orders him to, he has no problem providing the “requested” documents.
January 10th, 2008 at 10:30 am
(Caveat: I’ve not read the article or seen the interview)
I’m curious as to why that would take a court order? If things are on the up and up why is this an issue?
To be clear, I don’t mean this the sense of “if you’ve done nothing wrong, you should let the cops search your car”, but rather since pastors and televangelists are seen as being all about the $$, wouldn’t this be an opportunity to demonstrate to the world the opposite?
January 10th, 2008 at 10:33 am
Because “this guy” is a U.S. Senator. And Grassley asked without a court order, because that’s the polite thing to do. But he certainly can and will get a court order requiring Dollar to send in the information. And then Dollar is going to be in even bigger trouble.
Unless of course Dollar is completely innocent, but if that’s the case, then why doesn’t he just send in the info, and stop all the negative publicity.
January 10th, 2008 at 12:15 pm
In short, what he already said. It’s the principle of the matter. It doesn’t matter who you are, if I am not required to give you something and I feel as if you already have a negative mindset concerning me (as Brian K said), why would I fell obligated to volunteer something that is reserved for the staff/members of my organization. Again, he said he is willing to give it under court order.
I like to think of this as you coming to me and asking to see my checkbook, you’re an accountant (not mine I may add) and you demand to see it….
January 10th, 2008 at 12:20 pm
Yeah, well… he’s likely going to lose a lot of money banking on that principle. But whatever, it’s his company.
January 10th, 2008 at 12:27 pm
Of course that’s assuming that he is hiding something.
January 10th, 2008 at 12:31 pm
Naw, he’s gonna lose money, whether he’s guilty or innocent, because he depends on fundraising for his income. All this does is drag out the negative publicity. And if Grassley has to get a subpoena and call him in front of Congress to testify, then his fundraising is going to continue to dry up. That’s why it’s best just to comply.
Look, just send the Senator a couple of vauge answers and then tell the media you complied completely with Grassley’s request. That’s a much better strategy than thumbing your nose at US Senator.
January 10th, 2008 at 12:42 pm
So true Cat. It’s not that hard to get out of these things. Also a sizable donation to the Senator would help as well.
Onestar: We as a society have decided that we need law, and enforcement of those laws, to protect weak/dumb/vulnerable citizens from those that would take advantage of them. Your analogy of the checkbook is a straw man as presented.
Perhaps it would be better to add that “you” are claiming to be passing the money on to others, seem to be living a rather extravagant lifestyle without paying taxes, and others in your profession seem to make a habit of ripping people off.
If at that point you then asked me for money, you bet I would ask to see your checkbook, and would expect you to comply.
January 10th, 2008 at 12:59 pm
Cat: I would still have to say it depends… There is absolutely a chance of what you say. There is also a chance that the people will see Pastor Dollar as a person that stands up to the government when they have no cause for the actions. This could spark an entirely different movement of the people… I mean really…. Haven’t you seen “V” for Vendetta
?
Brian: Dude that was absolutely off the charts funny… I would only say that if “I” has no history of ripping people off then “you” should still should not be looking for my checkbook
.
January 10th, 2008 at 1:10 pm
yeah that didn’t come out right…was laughing too hard. Let’s try it again.
If “I” have no history of ripping people off the “you” should not be looking for my checkbook.
There, better
January 10th, 2008 at 1:11 pm
LOL…. Then “you” even
January 10th, 2008 at 1:50 pm
:-)
Cheers Onestar. Careful though… you’re starting to fit in around here. Soon your assimilation will be complete. Muhahahaha
January 10th, 2008 at 3:15 pm
LOL
January 10th, 2008 at 3:29 pm
Onestar,
What I meant 15 comments ago about Paula White being finished, was that since she left her husband and had an affair, her ministry is already disgraced. While she may still be required to answer to a Gongressional investigation, her ministry has already been dismissed by the evangelical community, and further findings of financial misappropriation won’t hurt her more. She’s no longer pastoring her church, and last time I checked, lost all her book deals. Let’s face it. She’s finished. She may make a comeback. But this investigation isn’t going to hurt her already soiled reputation.
January 10th, 2008 at 3:37 pm
Oh, Creflo, Benny and the rest want a court order because they feel it will provide more confidentiality to their financial records. Apparently they don’t want people to know about all the widows and orphans they’ve been supporting over the years.
January 10th, 2008 at 3:58 pm
The 503c tax code prevents religious institutions from being taxed so that the government can’t use tax laws to indirectly support or prohibit specific religions. This does not, however, protect religious institutions from being prosecuted for fraud, embezzlement, or any other kind of wrong-doings. It is not illegal for a religious institution to pay it’s leaders exorbitant salaries, but it is illegal to make people think their contributions are going somewhere else when they are instead lining the pockets of the leaders. Most of these leaders are careful not to ever state the intended purpose of gifts when they ask for them, and are even more reluctant to reveal what it is they actually do with the money. Opening the books will open the eyes of those giving and then it will dry up. They walk a tightrope of vague and empty promises, and it’s tough to catch them in something actionable. I really doubt Grassley will be able to uncover anything that will have legal repercussions, but the real impact will be exposing these flim-flam artists for who they really are. If Grassley really wanted to do something good, he would propose tax changes that would require full disclosure of the accounting books of religious institutions to the public to maintain your 503c status.
January 11th, 2008 at 3:29 am
Just trying to stay humble?
-joebib
January 11th, 2008 at 6:27 am
I completely agree. And hopefully, he’s using this publicity to gain support just that type of legislation.
January 11th, 2008 at 7:12 am
Sola Fide:
I encourage you to check all your facts and to not trash people the way you do on this blog. Although Pastor Randy and Paula split, the affair is still “alleged”. Also, although they are getting divorced the church is still very much vibrant. Pastor White is also still operating in the Ministry and has several events that she will both host and attend. The book did release in October (You’re All That! Understand God’s Design for Your Life) , and is still on sale at all major book stores….
Now this is the stuff that bothers me about some on this site. When you provide your false information, you overshadow those who are truly seeking clarity. Stick with the facts and not what you think.
January 11th, 2008 at 7:59 am
Onestar,
I’m sorry you love Paula White so much. I guess I can’t blame you, she is hot, and now single. However, I was quoting verbatim from a blog I read by members of Without Walls International church that were incensed by the fact that she keeps billing herself as a “Pastor of our church,” when if fact she isn’t allowed to even teach Women’s Bible Study. You can read it yourself here:
http://community.abcactionnews.com/blogs/flashpoint/archive/2007/10/11/2046076.aspx
and if you’d like to go to www.withoutwalls.org you will find there isn’t even a picture of her on their website anymore. Also I’ve read her book sales are horrific. I don’t have time to look that one up right now. But since I’ve done a reasonable job of backing up my “false information” I’ll stop. I could’ve put all this in the first one but didn’t think anyone was going to put me on trial, so I abbreviated my opinions. Thank you for letting me know the affair was only alleged. I’m sure her and Randy divorced over something much less serious. Have a nice weekend Onestar. Try not to fall in love with Paula too much.
January 11th, 2008 at 8:29 am
I went to www.withoutwalls.org, and the front page had a video and links to something they call “Firstfruits”, which is like “Faith Harvest” except it’s in the beginning of the year instead of the fall. I wonder if PF wishes he had come up with that first? Maybe he’ll adopt that false doctrine as well so he can have 2 big fund raising schemes during the year instead of just 1.
January 11th, 2008 at 8:33 am
FICM…
Frank’s fundraising never ends. You know that.
And quite honestly, if you are going to hit people up for money, it’s much better to do it before and during the holiday season than waiting till after when they’ve spent all their money on Christmas.
January 11th, 2008 at 8:35 am
Onestar,
You called Sola Fide out on posting false information yet you offered no proof of your own. It’s your turn to step up and show us what you’ve got. Where did your info come from?
January 11th, 2008 at 9:24 am
To address the critics….
First of all the information that you posted came from a blog…
Sola Fide said:
“I was quoting verbatim from a blog I read by members of Without Walls International church that were incensed by the fact that….”
Need I say more about blogs, and the validity of the information posted on them (hmm this is a blog isn’t it?).
Second of all I never said that Paula was still the Pastor of Without Walls, (its just a few posts ago, please do scroll up) I said that she has not been corrupted and dismissed the way that you are talking. Check out her Ministry Itinerary (http://www.paulawhite.org/component/option,com_itinerary/Itemid,64/)
She is even hosting the Trumpet Awards this week with some of the biggest names in the Ministry. Dude if she was dismissed she wouldn’t be close to hosting anything of this magnitude.
Finally, I never said the book was a bestseller for few ever make that list. I said that it is being sold at all major book retailers (again encouraged to scroll up). Check it out yourself…title again is You’re All That!: Understand God’s Design for Your Life (Hardcover). Look on Amazon, B & N, and Christianbook.com and so on.
January 11th, 2008 at 9:53 am
Onestar, the point is that your information is no more substantiated than Sola Fide’s.
And for the record…you both are writing on a BLOG (oh the horror).
January 11th, 2008 at 10:13 am
Reformed Pope said:
And for the record…you both are writing on a BLOG (oh the horror).
I figured that would be a counter…. However, my information is substantiated. Really, think about it. Sola Fide provides opinions he “heard” and even quoted verbatim as FACT, I provided you websites (unbiased reliable retailers), Pastor Paula’s itinerary…. with actual confirmable information…. This is FACTUAL information by the way. Big difference here.
I do have one correction however; she is not hosting the show this year.
January 11th, 2008 at 10:13 am
My sentiments exactly. Thank you Pope.
January 11th, 2008 at 10:16 am
“Unbiased reliable retailers”. That’s an oxymoron. Retailers are interested in selling things. I wouldn’t exactly call them unbiased. I know lets all get in a frieking jet and fly to Without Walls and get to the bottom of this. Come on onestar. I’ll spot you the cash. This is very very important to find the real truth.
Let me say this another way. Dude. Get a life. It’s a blog. It’s opinion. Chill out.
January 11th, 2008 at 10:27 am
We call that slander these days by the way… All I am saying is that if you are going to trash peoples names then have something to stand on.
That’s just like me coming on here trashing your mom saying, “Sola Fides mom is a lesbian and robed a bank last week”. I have no proof of my statement nor do I have any cause to say this freakish negative thing about her. But hey, it’s a blog…. I mean really…
January 11th, 2008 at 10:38 am
I just saw a pig fly by the window, and now I know why. I’m going side with Onestar on who’s info is more sourced. Itinerary+major retailers website>un-cited blog.
Here’s a train wreck though: Onestar, why would you equate being a lesbian with committing a crime, or an insult? Would you have just as easily said “Sola Fides mom is black and robed a bank last week”?
January 11th, 2008 at 10:51 am
Sorry didn’t mean the train wreck in that manner. I shouldn’t have said it that way. I wasn’t trying to equate being a lesbian with crime. Just making two accusations, neither considered good for Christian life, that’s all.
LOL on the joke before that though…again funny… you should do stand up. (Or do you)
January 11th, 2008 at 10:51 am
You posted HER website…you call that unbiased? That would be like me saying City Business Church is an unbiased source (which it is).
Actually, we call that libel…and yes, I will always correct that mistake.
I love our readers…You know, Brian, I bet Onestar is a RABID ANTI-DENTITE as well.
January 11th, 2008 at 10:57 am
LOL read my post above yours…must have posted at the same time. Her website is not the only one I sourced by the way. Also, if you haven’t figured it out I am here in Atlanta, so I know that she is here today as well (I know…you wouldn’t call me unbiased.)
Ummm… and also, why would she post a false itinerary????
You know what, it even says that she is preaching at Without Walls this Sunday…. (Guess she is still trying to steak her claim as Pastor)
January 11th, 2008 at 11:39 am
Mmm, steak. Stake? Reminds me I haven’t been to claim jumpers in awhile.
I promise to stop picking on you any minute now.
January 11th, 2008 at 11:42 am
To be fair, I think they should have their own schools as well. Call me a bigot and slap my ass…
January 11th, 2008 at 11:44 am
“They” should’ve been in quotes… “‘they’ should have their own schools”
Seriously though, don’t you guys have jobs? Or shouldn’t you be off doing whatever bitter people do all day?
January 11th, 2008 at 1:03 pm
Hey Brian…
What do you call a Doctor that failed out of Med-School?
January 11th, 2008 at 1:32 pm
Heh, a dentist?
January 11th, 2008 at 8:26 pm
A lawyer?
January 12th, 2008 at 3:42 am
Too easy…..a chiropractor.
-joe
January 13th, 2008 at 8:18 am
How did Onestar find out about my Mom?
January 13th, 2008 at 8:25 am
Probably by reading some stupid gossip blog.
January 13th, 2008 at 8:43 am
Are we going there?
Don’t get me started…