Charles Barkley calls conservatives fake Christians.
Posted on February 19th, 2008 by catalyst into the Uncategorized categoryReader MH, sends in this link where Charles Barkley claims that conservatives are just fake Christians, arguing they judge people too much.
This is the inevitable backlash that happens when a religious group ties itself too closely to a political party.
You can find further evidence of this in an interview by the author of UnChristian, David Kinnaman, where he explains why younger Christians believe Christianity no longer follows the examples of Christ. He says:
In fact, even the term “evangelical” is often completely misunderstood, seen to be someone who is just a political activist for a Republican-type cause.
Quite frankly, I think it is the leaders of the Evangelical movement that are doing the most damage, not Evangelicals themselves. Nevertheless, Christians need better PR.
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February 19th, 2008 at 2:17 pm
anddddddddddddddddd charles barkley’s opinion matters to whom????
February 19th, 2008 at 2:31 pm
(raises hand)
February 19th, 2008 at 3:07 pm
As a Christian, I do. Barkley is just saying what a lot of non-Christians already think. You don’t have to search much in the media to find stories about hypocritical Christians who judge and don’t forgive. Dismissing his comment like you did is the exact sort of thing that he is condemning! It’s easier to attack him as a person or his character rather than be concerned that his perspective on Christianity is one of Christians who preach judgment and hatred instead of the Gospel.
Someone close to me recently asked me if I was an “evangelical”. I stopped a moment and thought really hard, because even though being an evangelical is part of my past, I so disagree with the majority of evangelicals and am likewise repulsed with the seeming hypocrisy, I finally answered “no”.
I think most “evangelicals” don’t even know what the word means, and I would go even farther to say that most Christians don’t even understand what the Gospel says or its true message. They’d probably fake something about going to Heaven and reciting the sinner’s prayer. Christians have a bad rep in America and they largely deserve it.
February 19th, 2008 at 4:04 pm
I never thought you had to be a Christian to be a conservative.
To me a conservative = far less government control (therefore less taxes) and intervention that we have now, and greater personal freedoms.
This would be in contrast with liberals that want/need bigger government (therefore more taxes), more obtrusive government, greater government handouts, and reduced personal freedoms.
Religious affiliation is not required for either.
February 19th, 2008 at 4:58 pm
Right on FICM. Some people on here may think Barkley doesn’t matter but a majority of American’s do. If they didn’t there wouldn’t be news articles written about what he’s saying and he wouldn’t be on TV/Radio all the time. People don’t get a spolight in the media unless they sell magazines and increase viewership to which Barkley does both, so that means other people do care about what he says.
And I will second Barkley’s point. Some conservatives use faith and Christianity as a way to push an agenda and control religious folks into backing there campaigns. Genuine Christain politicians usually don’t last long in politics because they have to sacrifice their integrity to win anything big - like a seat in Congress or a State govenorship. The biggest thing proving his point is all the big conservative so-called Christian politicians who have been busted having affairs lately, some of them with gay men! It’s time for real Christians to walk away from the republican party and stay independents. We should all vote for people because of their policies and beliefs, not because of what party they are apart of.
February 19th, 2008 at 5:04 pm
This used to be the case, but not anymore. Bush (a supposed strong conservative) has created one of the biggest governments in American history with huge government spending on defense and public schools (No Child Left Behind Act), huge government handouts ($600 checks from Uncle Sam coming your way), and giving government bodies the right to invade our personal freedoms at will (Patriot Act, wire-tapping laws). So yes conservatives used to be about small government, but that was under Regan. Now conservatives are just as bad as liberals.
Again I say, Christains should dump both parties.
February 19th, 2008 at 5:21 pm
Bush = RINO = Republican In Name Only = A big liberal spender. Bush has also taken great steps to try and legalize illegal aliens - another liberal trait. Bush has given away billions of American taxpayer $$$ to countries when it should have been spent on America.
On taking away personal freedoms be careful - it wasn’t until we had a Democrat Congress that domestic spying (aka, CIA Cell Towers) was approved. Before Democrats did this, one end of the conversation had to be in another country. Also, it was this same Democratic Congress that now protects telecommunications companies from anti-privacy lawsuits.
You are right - conservatives used to be about small government, but sadly, many that call themselves Republican are more liberal than ever. This is one reason they don’t like Ron Paul - he is way too conservative with a voting track record against the creep of government.
GO RON PAUL!
February 19th, 2008 at 10:30 pm
Did anyone see this? Ow-w-w! Being a Christian is hot.
February 20th, 2008 at 7:36 am
While I see your points eleytheria, ex-city slave, and FICM, I also firmly agree with Living Life.
I’m not sure you took the time to hear beyond the sarcasm of what she was really saying, neither made the effort to understand her implication before you rushed in to disagree.
To make your points, while sounding noble on the surface, seems unnecessary to me. The vast “majority” which you refer to — Christians included — are already bent way too far to that extreme. Remember, that same “majority” of Americans, regardless of what the polls say, are lost to the Gospel of Christ, and their minds are deceived by the god of this world.
Don’t get me wrong here. I’m not saying these celebs can’t and don’t represent the opinion of non-Christians, just as you point out, and that we shouldn’t therefore be aware of how we come off in their eyes. That’s a valid point. As believers in Jesus we’re to do nothing to bring reproach to His banner, which unfortunately, we all too often do. Amen to that.
But, we should only be concerned to a very limited extent because the balance is definitely swung way too far the other way, even among believers.
You think that Jesus worried about what His enemies — the fickle crowds, the Scribes, the Sadducees, the Herodians, the Zealots, the Pharisees — thought and said about Him? About the despicable accusations they made against Him? Did all that opposition make Him for one second tone down His message? Make it politically correct? Or try to not offend those of differing opinions?
And so from that perspective I really don’t give a pfennig about Charles Barkley’s — nor anyone else’s — jaded biases nor orchestrated sound-bites, because I know the antichristal spirit who speaks through them, controls/owns them, and whom they ultimately serve.
Want more proof that we have gone astray in this regard? Let me illustrate.
Most Christians know the two following things: 1) that they are to treat those in the world with love and compassion, and 2) we are not to endorse their sinful lifestyles. Right? Right.
But what do we then do? We listen for every word that falls from their lips, and then dutifully quote what they say and think — and endorse.
We go on to spend untold hours watching them on TV — and allowing our children to do the same. We read all about them in the tabloids. We pay millions of $$$ per week to go see them cavort on the silver screen — even bringing our children along with us so they’ll learn to fawn over them as well! Even call them “role models” and “heroes.” We add to their (not to mention those wonderful recording companies) millions of $$$ of wealth by buying their corrupted CDs — which carnal lyrics we then sing along with, even memorizing them. We throw even more money at them and the studios by later renting the DVDs in which they appear.
We are so interested in their endless relationships, affairs and flings that we quote what they say, we photograph them, we fight jostling crowds just to try and touch them, we use the same products as them, we hang on their every word, and generally idolize/worship a segment of society that, in the main, stands for immorality, hypocrisy, libertinism, shallowness, temporal values, hedonism, and a hatred of all things Christian.
C’mon be honest……most us of know more about the lives of celebrities, politicians, the rich and famous, singers, musicians, athletes, actors, media personalities, and so on, than we do about Abraham, Isaac or Jacob, not to mention the life of Jesus. Heck, most Christians spend much more time in front of the idiot box than they do in prayer and the Word.
The media decides whom they are going to create and then make famous, and they continue to keep them ever before our eyes, repeating in lurid detail their every move, and then plaster them on every TV screen, billboard, and magazine cover so we don’t for a moment forget about them, and how important they and their (corporately endorsed) posturing and opinions are. And then we — like good little sheep, or even lemmings — fawn over them obediently.
Not that I can’t relate to once being entranced by their luster. As a teenager, I can remember not washing my right arm for 3 days because it had brushed up against Chuck Norris in a karate tournament we both attended at Barlow High School (in Gresham) back in the day. And back then I would have done practically anything to have met Bruce Lee or Steve Saunders personally. I also remember fighting my way through a clamoring throng of fans at the Oakland Coliseum to get the autograph of my favorite player — José Canseco — back in the 80s. How silly all that was.
Yes, thank God, Jesus died for those sinful people in the world system (John 3:16; 1 John 4:9,14, etc.), of which we all were once a part. And He did it for José, and even for Mr. Barkley.
But, wouldn’t you agree that loving/being addicted to this world and all of its carnality and personalities is a cancerous, pervasive problem — even among believers — today?
Thus, to make the points you make seem unnecessary to me, as the vast majority of us already err too far to that side, and are too far ensnared in the clutches of that dangerous mindset.
The Word of God gives us clear warning what our attitudes and lifestyles should now be towards the world system:
OK. Rant over.
I recognize and am very well aware what I’m saying is the minority opinion.
I can already envision what will be negatively said — the accusations and clichés — in reply.
But I’m saying it anyway.
-joebib
February 20th, 2008 at 7:42 am
You touched Chuck Norris and lived to tell about it?
February 20th, 2008 at 7:42 am
I just love Charles Barkley on TNT. He and Kenny Smith are the best. I don’t know if any of you caught the Slam Dunk contest on Saturday, but during the dunk, Charles and Kenny got into an argument about whether Charles Barkley had “man-boobs” or “titties”. I couldn’t belive they were allowed to say it on TV. Ernie kept trying to get them to talk about the actual dunks, but Charles and Kenny would not be swayed. They went on for about five minutes discussing Barkley’s breasts. Classic stuff! and good times…
February 20th, 2008 at 8:56 am
Oh Boy!!
Lets all base our thinking on some other stupid remark by Charles Barkley.
What a man’s man. He cares about Charles Barkley and little else. Yeah, a good basketball player and credit is due him. I have yet to hear anything positive or uplifting, including his TNT stint, come form his mouth. He of all people is criticizing any form of Chrisrianity???
Don’t give people like him an ear.
February 20th, 2008 at 9:47 am
I am confused. I thought this post was emphasizing how Christians should not align themselves with the republican party because those in the world (including Barkley, a high profile media personality) look at republican conservatives as fake, judgemental, and people who use Christianity as a mask to push their agendas. Are you saying this is not true? It appears to me that he was attacking conservatives, but these responses I have highlighted make it sound like he was attacking Christianity, which I didn’t read into at all. Did I miss something?
February 20th, 2008 at 10:16 am
This argument has become muddled because certain people are taking Mr. Barkley’s attack personally. Many Christians equate conservatism with Christianity. Conservatism means different things to different people. Purists would say it’s about small government and political ideology, while recent culture tends to reflect moral conservatism, especially Evangelical ideology. So it’s no wonder people get their knickers in a bunch and call Mr. Barkley names (the antichrist? come on, Joe, I’m ashamed of you) rather than address the issue that he is saying so-called conservatives misrepresent Christianity. For all we know, Mr. Barkley could very well be a Believer but have differing views than are considered “correct”. Last time I checked, the Bible doesn’t require me to be a registered Republican to be saved.
February 20th, 2008 at 10:30 am
I totally agree.
Perhaps I should have mentioned this in the post, but Barkley’s comments were picked up by all the major networks. He tapped into something that a lot of people are thinking. And that is Christians aren’t acting very Christ-like. Now, I’m not sure how true that is among your average Christian. Because Christians generally tend to be very good people, and actually do represent Christ. To me, it’s the leaders of the Evangelical movement that are the one’s creating this negative image. And that reason is because they have tied themselves to the Republican party.
There’s nothing wrong with being Republican, I was one until about a month ago, when I changed just so I could vote for Obama in the DC primary. And nothing wrong with being conservative, I still consider myself one. (I almost voted for Ron Paul.) The issue is why are people comparing conservatives with Christians. It’s because people consider them one and the same. And that’s an image problem. And should be addressed.
February 20th, 2008 at 11:12 am
I keep wondering when all these political Christians are going to read Joshua 5:13-15.
February 20th, 2008 at 11:20 am
Anna, that word “NEITHER” sure packs a wallop, don’t it?
February 22nd, 2008 at 8:25 am
Well, yes you did.
If you listen to the clip, he does, in fact, blatantly deride not just Conservatives, but also Christians, and that several times over. Interesting you managed to not “read” that at all, BTW, since he said it so clearly. No offence, just sayin.
Anyhow, he said among other things, that Christians judge and don’t forgive others. Which of course, what with all that is said around here and directed at the various SPs and LCs of the MFI, one could say is also applicable to the C-BUS-C blog. (Oops!)
But wait! What’s this?? Do I hear a chorus of voices, crying out in unison, the time-honored practice of quoting the C-BUS-C official motto?:
So then, Mr. Barkley is apparently guilty of judging Christians, as well.
(What’s that I hear?)
“As are you, joebib, in saying that he is guilty of judging.”
Fair enough. I am apparently guilty of judging, as well.
As are you, for saying that I…oh forget it.
For the record, and in reference to something that takes place all too often around here — specifically, that of not reading what someone is actually saying — I never called Mr. Barkley the Antichrist. I did, however, say this:
Shall I provide just a sampling of the Scriptures which prove who is behind the mindset and actions of the unregenerate? And who ultimately owns them?
Even in regard to Sir Charles — in whose life — based on Matthew 12:33, James 3:12, etc. — I haven’t seen anything to suggest otherwise. Thus, I firmly stand behind what I said. And to quote you, shame on you, my friend, for not reading your Bible.
What version are you using?
-joebib
February 22nd, 2008 at 9:22 am
No, please don’t.
And shame on you for droppin’ that f-bomb, Joe. Well, ph-bomb, anyway.
‘Scrupe
February 22nd, 2008 at 9:27 am
Did you watchthe video clip? I hope to God that Barkely runs in 2014. Itl just make the GOP’s job a whole lot easier. if that guy didnt sounds like a retarded highschooler maybe id take him a bit more seriously.
February 22nd, 2008 at 9:46 am
Well now you are just acting bitter cause no one agrees with you. Don’t be upset dog, it’s ok to be wrong but think you are right.
February 22nd, 2008 at 3:14 pm
Yes, I can see that.
joe
February 25th, 2008 at 10:20 am
Barkley says:
Wolf Blitzer (?) then asks Barkley to explain what he means by “fake Christians”
Sounds like Barkley may be more familiar with scripture than most so-called conservatives. Specifically:
(What part of “let him” is so hard to understand?)
Sounds as if the scriptures give everyone freedom of choice, but Barkley doesn’t appreciate the conservatives who try to take away the Biblical rights of people to live the life they want to live?
Concering the bickering and competitiveness between Peter and John, Jesus finally told Peter to mind his own business and to simply follow Jesus.
Similar example found with the woman caught in adultery - Jesus clears the ‘kangaroo court’ and deals with the woman alone.
With so many examples of individual choice and responsibility and MYOB in the scriptures, why do the conservatives seek to legislate morality? Why not just let sinners sin? What’s the real agenda of conservatives, to attempt to save the masses by outlawing sin, or, do they just want to clean up the environment so they don’t have to look at sin? Must be the latter, since as Christians they must know salvation is not accomplished through preventing sin, rather, it comes through Jesus alone. All outlawing sin does, is turn people off to the faith - by making behavior / conduct / morals out to be more important than relationship with Jesus.
February 25th, 2008 at 10:42 am
’scrupe said:
It’s called Dominionism. The latest installment on that can be found here:
February 25th, 2008 at 11:56 am
Good use of the Revelation scriptures ‘Scrupe.
The real agenda of conservatives is to set up an ‘enemy’ for their followers to ‘be against’. I mean, if the ‘leaders’ in the big megachurches will not allow anyone to minister except themselves, they have to keep the followers agitated against something. It’s a way to keep the $$$ coming in to ‘fight the good fight’ so to speak. Ever see the movie, “Wag the Dog”?:)
February 25th, 2008 at 7:59 pm
Anna, you read Elijahlist?!?
Several years ago, I bought 3 of Hamon’s books, read 1-1/2 of them because I couldn’t get past the institutionalist mindset so clear in his writing. Sold ‘em at a garage sale.
Also heard Steve Shultz of Elijahlist speak in Rockford, IL several years ago … BORING! Didn’t see anything in that guy that was prophetic or particularly insightful. Did hear him speak a few ‘personal words’ at the end of his session, typical of the “God is going to make you bloom like a rose …” type words.
Glad ol’ Steve is turning a living by selling prophecies and paid advertisements on Elijahlist.
If the likes of Bill Hammon and Steve Schultz are going to be ruling apostolic elder types in this coming dominion of Christendom, please, string me up and burn me with the sinners.
Don’t think I have to worry though … I have it on good authority that THIS is as good as it gets …
‘Scrupe
PS - whatHEsaid - haven’t seen Wag the Dog. Sounds like the kind of movie that would raise my blood pressure?
February 26th, 2008 at 6:42 am
‘Scrupe, I haven’t seen it either, just read about it. The story line is about a President who starts a war in order to distract the media from his scandals. (think clinton, monica, and bombing bosnia…) It fits like a glove for church leaders going after the homosexuals etc.
As I read through the ‘elijalist’, it somehow brought to mind the old joke about the manure salesman with a mouthfull of samples…:) Books, CDs,
go shopping, subscribe! YUCK!
February 26th, 2008 at 11:17 am
’scrupe said:
Wasn’t it Paul who said something like the believers in (was it Corinth?) were the proof of his calling?
But, yes, I read Elijah list. It keeps me abreast on the happenings in that segment of the church. Although I have to agree, most of the time, it is “much ado about nothing.”
February 26th, 2008 at 11:38 am
OK - well - I’m just concerned about balance, Anna.
Ever see this site on the apostles? I’m sure it’s just one of many such sites …
February 26th, 2008 at 11:49 am
hahahaha
This is even worse than MFI, it just takes the ol’ boys club to a new level. I’d even go so far as to say this is just a few steps shy of establishing governing priesthood like the Roman Catholic Church, which makes Peter Wagner the Pope. I wonder if FD and DI will be offended that they aren’t on the list?
The part that really defines what they really think about themselves and others is this statement:
Boo freaking hoo. You’re too close to God to have meaningful relationships with those who aren’t as special as you are? Cry me a river, you egotistical jerks. Perhaps you would be better off following the example of our Savior:
February 26th, 2008 at 1:58 pm
Great, ’scrupe — just great. I go to the Wittenburg Door website and check out the videos. They have Eddie Long on there telling his congregation that “the job of the preacher is to bring fresh sperm.”
OK, so I guess you have to hear it in context, but still …
February 26th, 2008 at 3:02 pm
He should collaborate with that pastor in Florida who told his congregation to have sex every day …
March 2nd, 2008 at 6:56 pm
It makes me sick to see this list of self appointed ‘apostles.’ How much did they have to pay in fees to be on this elite list? Why do they need titles to do the work of Christ, unless that is, they want the recognition for something they think they deserve. The MFI list is almost as bad. Who gave these men the right to call themselves apostles?