Church Forced to Sell Private Jet
Posted on February 20th, 2008 by catalyst into the Prosperity Doctrine categoryIs this a vision of things to come for City Bible:
BROOKLYN PARK, Minn. (AP) ― Dwindling donations to the Living Word Christian Center in Brooklyn Park have prompted its high-profile pastor, Mac Hammond, to put his private business jet on the market.
Church spokesman the Rev. Brian Sullivan says Living Word has also cut its hourlong Sunday morning television broadcast to 30 minutes to save money.
He says the church has fallen $40,000 to $70,000 short of its weekly budget in recent weeks. Sullivan says the church is adjusting its budget accordingly.
Sullivan says the church's problems could be a combination of the recession and the recent bad publicity about churches preaching the "Prosperity Gospel."
The prosperity churches are based on the idea that success in business or personal life is evidence of God's love.
Late last year, the U.S. Senate asked six churches to submit financial documents because of complaints about the lavish lifestyles of their ministers. Hammond was not among them.
Sullivan says the church is aggressively marketing the jet, and that the money raised from the sale would be reinvested in the ministry.
My guess is something similar happens to City Bible, except replace Jet with "Vancouver Campus" and "217 Campus".
(Thanks to BK for sending this in.)
February 20th, 2008 at 3:01 pm
In the story about the good Samaritan why did the clergyman pass by on the other side?
Because the man lying by the roadside had already been robbed!
February 20th, 2008 at 3:12 pm
This kind of stuff maks me sick. Do churches and pastors really need privte jets? What a f**king joke. Imagine how many poor, homeless, and hungry people they could be helping with the money that went into their stupid jet. Hey pastor Dick Hammond…if you want to fly somewhere by a ticket on United for a couple hundred bucks and give the rest of the hundreds of thousands of dollars away.
As you can tell I DESPISE the prosperity gospel and the idiot morons who preach and teach it.
February 20th, 2008 at 3:27 pm
Benny Hinn recently purchased, or is still raising money to buy, a jet and it has on the side: BH777. He said he was buying it from another ministry (whatever that means). He was offering his donors plaques with their names on them to be put inside of the jet and somehow he connected them with the donors prayer requests always being close to him whenever flying (unsure on the details on that last one).
Jesse Duplantis raised millions for his own jet, too.
There is a certain prosperity preacher/pastor who lives in the Seattle area who apparently flies a helicopter from one of his campuses to another on Sundays. I don’t know if he owns the helicopter or if he is just leasing it.
All is done under the guise of “more money, more ministry…”
February 20th, 2008 at 3:41 pm
FWIW — The pastor in Seattle rents the helicopter on the Sundays he needs it. It isn’t every week and he doesn’t own it. And I have no clue what it costs.
February 20th, 2008 at 5:05 pm
I’ve been visiting this blog for couple of months, though, I don’t agree with everything said here, however, it’s a great place to really dig in deep and think what really is the truth about well, everything. Because, I am a former PBC/BT/CBC/TCCer and was taught a lot of things being discussed here.
I don’t think he owns the helicopter… however, I never understood why that Red-haired preacher have to fly to get to the north campus from where he is. It’s probably only about 45min. driving distance on Sunday. If it is necessary for him to preach at his other campus, I think he should arrange the service time or something, instead of wasting that kind of money flying. That said, I’ve been told by a former staff of that church that they are always struggling with money. They couldn’t pay their staff, cut back on employment, etc. Makes me wonder who is controling thier budget or if there are any good business practice there.
Anyways, I always enjoy your posts, Brother Dave Mackin!
Keep up the good work and make me think more about the truth.
February 20th, 2008 at 7:01 pm
Benny Hinn?
Boss Hog?
February 20th, 2008 at 9:44 pm
I guess BH is really close to Brian K… Err, BK. Close enough. You know that by noon Cat’s usually pretty well sauced.
February 20th, 2008 at 9:56 pm
The worst part about this is that chances are he’ll come down hard on his congregation about this. It’s a hit to his ego, and so he’ll have to transfer the blow by transferring the blame to his congregation’s “lack of faith.” Really, when it comes down to it, in these churches the pastor is blameless. It all boils down to the congregations collective lack of faith.
What is the world coming to when prosperity preachers have to sell off their personal jets and fly in commercial airplanes like the rest of us nobodies? It’s a tragic, tragic day.
February 20th, 2008 at 11:43 pm
Doesn’t SPFD of CBC and his inner-circle pastors (like DL and his posse) fly on personal jets as well?
I don’t think they own the plane but they have some kind of connection with somebody???
I know they’ve flown to Seattle to attend a meeting with thier pilots then flew back few times as I recall…
February 21st, 2008 at 4:00 am
-joe
February 21st, 2008 at 6:14 am
hahaha… (sigh) details are not my specialty.
February 21st, 2008 at 6:32 am
When you consider noon Cat’s time is 9AM Portland time, well, you Portlanders don’t have a prayer of catching Cat sober …
February 21st, 2008 at 7:16 am
Bassist, Thanks for your words of kindness; they encourage me.
by the way, that church which you identified right away (so much for my lousy job at camouflaging!) hired me in the early nineties to teach in their newly developing college; when we visited the church, we visited one of the staffers who taught in the school; he and his wife were not experiencing, just like your staffer, financial prosperity as is preached from that pulpit; if this is a common thread in prosperity churches, I think it would show us the corruption of the whole system and that, at root, such preaching is mainly or only to benefit the man at the very top!
February 21st, 2008 at 7:38 am
the helicopter he uses does not belong to him. a church member owns it. I believe nowadays they do satellite broadcasts….
February 21st, 2008 at 7:40 am
from federal way to south Everett is an hour drive, you have to be pushing the pedal reaaaaally hard to do it in 45 minutes.
February 21st, 2008 at 7:46 am
Is it still really that much quicker to take a helicopter? Door to door it probably saves you what a half-an-hour? Is half-an-hour of time really worth the cost of of a helicopter. My guess, not so much. But if you’re dumb enough to give your pastor money so he can fly in a helicopter, then you deserve to be poor.
February 21st, 2008 at 7:57 am
never said i was poor. i dont know who pays for the helicopter. and like i said, nowadays they dont use the helicopter much, most of the time they use satelite, or have two preachers.
February 21st, 2008 at 8:06 am
didn’t mean to imply you were poor. just not feeling sympathetic for people who are taken advantage of by prosperity preachers.
and i guess i was right. in the end, it wasn’t cost-effective to have a helicopter. who knew?
February 21st, 2008 at 8:08 am
maybe not, but we all try things, and learn. last thing i am is taken advantage of. and another thing, he doesnt take a salary from the church any longer, he has enough book sales….
February 21st, 2008 at 9:18 am
Who cares if he doesn’t take a salary from the church. If he uses church money to pay for anything of luxury he’s corrupt. Do you really thing Jesus would have been flying in helicopters and private jets if he were alive today? Hell no! He would be pedaling a bike at the most and saving souls down on skid row. These pastors are a joke. Cat is right, if you give your money to one of these bafoons you deserve whatever financial hardship you got. No sympathy here.
February 21st, 2008 at 1:47 pm
Cat, I love your characterization, ~ “If people are stupid enough to fund a helicopter for their pastor, they deserve to be poor” - I’m going to use that when I write up something against the insipid prosperity racket; thanks!
February 21st, 2008 at 2:32 pm
really dont think jesus would be pedaling a bike. maybe he wouldnt be flying a private jet or helicopter, but definitely wouldnt be pedaling a bike.
February 21st, 2008 at 4:10 pm
Now you are just being silly. You are just arguing for arguments sake. Just making a point my friend. And there’s no maybe about it. Jesus would not be using a private jet to minister to poor people. The thought of it makes me cringe.
February 21st, 2008 at 4:15 pm
ur the one that started with the bike buddy. and i agree maybe jesus wouldnt use a private jet to minister…but im sure he would use the most efficient and effective way available…whether its a jet, helicopter, car, boat…..
February 22nd, 2008 at 5:12 am
And, pray tell, why not?? (Offended look)
1. According to the British Heart Foundation, cycling at least 20 miles per week reduces the risk of coronary heart disease to less than half that for non-cyclists.
2. Cycling burns calories, and even at a gentle 12 mph on a flat road uses 450 cal per hour.
3. Cycling reduces stress.
4. Cycling raises the speed of your metabolism for hours afterwards, so your body continues to burn calories even after exercise.
5. Through the lungs, cycling pushs as much oxygen into the body as possible, as well as into the heart, which then beats faster to transport this oxygen around your body. A strong heart and powerful lungs form the basis of general fitness.
6. Muscles become trimmer and more toned.
7. Exercising releases endorphins into your blood - which create a feeling of contentment and euphoria, also helping to reduce stress.
8. Cycling does not pollute the environment like flying a helicopter or driving an automobile does.
(This last one’s for Cat)
9. Being seen it tights, with your leg muscles a-bulging, is a great chick magnet!
What female could resist your charms when you cruise by her on a steed like this?
-joebib
February 22nd, 2008 at 5:33 am
do you ride a bike everywhere you go joebib? if you dont why should jesus…
February 22nd, 2008 at 6:07 am
Serj –
In answer to your question — assuming it is serious — I will say that I am striving to go as *cage* free as possible, and am currently up to 100+ miles per week on my trusty, non-polluting steed.
The main reason I use our car is for buying groceries, and this is forced upon me only due to the difficulty in finding — and attaching — a rack large enough to carry said groceries home.
Furthermore, even if I could find a large enough rack, it would still be problematic (what with all that extra weight) inasmuch as I probably wouldn’t be able to effectively evade the redneck *cagers* in their broken down pick-ups — duly emblazoned with Confederate Flags — who would inevitably choose me for automobile target practice.
It seems some people just can’t appreciate seeing a man dressed in bright — some would say gayish — colors and tights. Go figure.
(*Cage is a term used by elitist-cycling-snob-types when referring to automobiles. Drivers are similarly referred to as cagers)
-joe
February 22nd, 2008 at 6:14 am
thats good that you bike 100+ miles a week, rather impressive. I do about 10km a day.
so you honestly believe biking is an efficient mode of transportation? for me to get to the nearest store from where i live would take about 30 minutes on bike, 5 on a car…
yes biking is good, and theres nothing wrong with the tight outfits, but you seriously cant be saying that it is the most efficient mode of transport? around town fine, what about from seattle to everett?
February 22nd, 2008 at 6:24 am
Well, according to one web site, Jesus would ride a Harley … cool Easy Rider image …
Or perhaps He’d drive one of these vehicles.
Don’t forget What Would Jesus Drive, a wonderful site for eco-theological debate.
‘Scrupe
February 22nd, 2008 at 6:49 am
As I sit here in Northern California, glued to my T.V. set watching the brave cyclists in the Amgen Tour of California pedal up to 135 miles per day as they endure the relentless winds and rain — duly attended by our stud-muffin Governor, Mr. Schwarzenegger, BTW — I laugh at your mention of the wimpy (if I remember correctly) 20-25ish miles from Everett to Seattle.
Meh…child’s play.
-joe
February 22nd, 2008 at 8:58 am
This is so clearly a man’s argument. Jesus walked everywhere. You boys and your fancy toys.
February 22nd, 2008 at 9:25 am
I hope Pam gives you both barrels for that “man’s argument” remark.
It’s sexist and divisive. 
February 22nd, 2008 at 9:30 am
Wow….this discussion got way off base….but I will for once agree with Joebib….I would much rather bike then drive.
February 22nd, 2008 at 9:59 am
Me too! It’s all done with a wink and a smile.
February 22nd, 2008 at 10:08 am
Hmm.. what method of transportation would Jesus use? It’s a question right up there with all of the important questions an inquiring mind must ask itself in the course of life, like “What sports team would King David have supported?” and “Is it against the Mosaic Law to eat Lucky Charms?”
February 22nd, 2008 at 10:33 am
Lucky Charms make your poo green. Sounds like black magic to me. BAD!
February 22nd, 2008 at 3:08 pm
Yessss! I knew we would eventually agree on something, ex-city-slave.
In case anyone is interested in going car-free, I can help. This Italian beauty, a Colnago, can be had fully loaded for only $7,300 — plus change.
Or, this Trek Madone just like Lance rode, for a measly $8,200.
And, for those expecting an especially generous tax-return this year, this sweet little Italian number, by Bianchi, for just under $10,000.
Just let me know. I know a guy who knows a guy…
-joe
February 22nd, 2008 at 6:02 pm
http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/22/panasonics-titanium-flat-road-eb-electric-bicycle-is-almost-che/
February 23rd, 2008 at 4:38 am
Thanks for posting that bike, serj. I want one!
-joe
February 23rd, 2008 at 4:48 pm
I was thinking about the whole issue with pastors flying first class or business class while traveling in airplanes.
The thought i came to is that an average person travels via airplane maybe once a year. some even less than that.
A lot of pastors, especially those of big churches fly a lot more than once per year, some even once a month. So when you’re traveling once a year, sitting in a coach seat for 3 hours isn’t that bad, you don’t even notice it being uncomfortable. However when you fly a lot, being in coach all the time can get very tiresome, especially if you’re doing long flights. Not just for pastors, anyone. Being comfortable can have a huge effect on you, later on, whether you’re a preacher going to preach to a congregation, or a business man going to do a presentation. Its not really a question of luxury anymore.
I’m sure some of you might have different opinions, I’m just sharing my thoughts. But put yourself in the shoes of the pastors who do have to fly a lot, they need, rest, and comfort as much as we all do….why shouldn’t they have it?
February 23rd, 2008 at 6:17 pm
I’m sorry, but I disagree with your logic completely. And I highly doubt that the average American flies only once a year. Most of the people I know would probably average flying once every two months at least. It’s called business travel. And most companies don’t fork over the big bucks for their employees to fly anything but budget low-class coach, so if they want to fly better and nobler, it comes out of their own pocket.
I need rest and comfort just as much as the next guy, but I don’t fly first class because it’s simply not worth the extra money. When the money comes from your own pocket, it hurts a lot more. And that’s the point. These pastor’s are willing to fork over the money to fly first class because it’s NOT THEIR MONEY they’re forking over. And THAT’S the problem people have with it. If you’re a non-profit organization which doesn’t have to pay taxes and relies on other people’s charity to exist, you really shouldn’t be flying first class or giving yourself a bunch of extra little perks. That’s money people worked hard for and they gave it to you trusting that it was going to the building of the local church, assistance to the poor, etc.
I know what Cat said and agree with him completely that if you’re enough of a sucker to give your money to these wolves then you deserve what you get, but I still think it’s wrong for these pastor’s to be able to get away with so much.
February 23rd, 2008 at 6:29 pm
Serj,
Real world - said pastor flying all the time, earns at least $100K/yr., paid for by families who don’t make half as much - perhaps $30K-$50K/yr. - they don’t have the church general fund at their disposal like the pastor does - his airfare is paid from the church general fund as a ministry expense, not from his salary …
More real world - I can fly coach from ORD to SEA for $330 or $1530 first class. Using your once a month example, the difference in total airfare is $14,400 per year - or the ANNUAL TITHE of 3 to 5 families … is the comfort of a pastors tushie really worth $14,400 per year?
In terms of comfort, coach is not that bad - I flew from SEA to ORD every other weekend for a year before my wife and I were married, and learned that comfort is more a state of mind than anything else.
February 23rd, 2008 at 7:02 pm
either way i was just thinking out loud….
February 23rd, 2008 at 7:12 pm
honestly i know an evangelist, who travels by plane at least once a week, if not two or three times, and alot of times its international flights. I would feel bad for him if he had to do all that flying in coach. I flew 8 hours in a coach seat, it wasnt too bad, but not something i would want to do every week.
and eleytheria, if you get out of the business world, im still pretty sure the average american person flies maybe once a year. the average american doesnt do business trips, they work regular local jobs.
February 24th, 2008 at 12:36 am
This stuff disgusts me. Why do pastors need private jets? I dont whats worse these preachers or the gullible Christians who believe them and give them money.
February 26th, 2008 at 12:02 pm
So should we change the meaning of “WWJD?” to “What would Jesus drive?”
The only justifiable reason for private jets is when it makes more economical and logistical sense to have it than fly commercial. Those are 2 very big criteria, and I can’t imagine most pastors giving a good argument for why private jets are cheaper. The latter argument is reasonable if you and the employees of your “company” are flying often enough at regular intervals that commercial airlines don’t offer enough opportunities for travel. Intel has a fleet of private jets at local airfields at their major offices in Oregon and California. Their employees can use the jets daily and expense the cost to their projects as part of doing business. That makes both economical and business sense for the company. Pastors flying to conferences on private jets for their comfort is neither economical or logistically necessary.
February 26th, 2008 at 3:16 pm
http://www.whatwouldjesusdrive.org/
February 26th, 2008 at 4:09 pm
Norcal, joebib. You’re close by. Now that’s just too close to home.
February 26th, 2008 at 4:36 pm
Exactly! And I might add that Intel is a major corporation that generates billions of dollars in sales per year. They provide an actual product to consumers who get something of quality in exchange for the hard earned dollars they fork over. Their employees deserve to be flown around on private jets because they help produce the products that allow the company to afford such lavish things.
However, churches are 501(3)(c) non-profit organizations that survive off the generous donations of people who don’t get any sort of product in return. Their employees do not deserve the same luxury of a “company” jet because they don’t do anything to generate such profits…well unless you consider guilting an 82 year old grandma out of her life savings work?
Again I stress that the issue for me is not about the money or the jets. God calls people to be rich all the time. The issue is using other peoples money to become rich and live a lavish life. God does not call people to do that. If someone wants to be rich they should not choose pastoring as their profession…plain and simple.
February 26th, 2008 at 4:36 pm
You’re not saying you want me to score you one o’ those Italian beauties, are you? I happen to have it on good authority that former pbc prez’s don’t reside anywhere near that income bracket, so fuggetaboutit!
-joebibstudent
P.S. Neither do bible students
February 26th, 2008 at 4:52 pm
No, did I read your comment incorrectly? I thought you said you were from NorCal. That’s all. I thought maybe we’re close by.
February 26th, 2008 at 5:15 pm
some of them do work just as hard as some of the people at intel. ministry is not always easy work. alot of ministers probably work harder and work more than the average person working at intel…and the work that they do has eternal effects, whereas the work intel does is obsolete in less than 10 years…
Using other people to get rich is wrong….but that doesnt mean that ministers dont deserve a nice life, even with luxury.
February 26th, 2008 at 5:36 pm
Of course they should have a nice life….that’s not what I was saying. I’m saying they don’t deserve to be rich on OTHER PEOPLES MONEY.
And I do know what kind of work ministers do…I was a youth pastor for 2 years and on full-time staff of a church plant for another 3. It was more work then I’ve ever had in my life, and I went to law school. But again, your missing the point. I stopped doing ministry because I wasn’t making enough money. I want to have wealth, it’s a huge motivating factor for me in my career. I want my kids to never have to struggle the way my wife and I did growing up. We both come from very poor families. But I’m sorry man, using the church to become rich….no matter what anyone says, it’s just wrong.
February 27th, 2008 at 4:21 am
I know, prez, I was just joking. Sometimes my humor is lost on people with normal minds.
Yes, I live in Northern California, just outside Sacramento.
-joebib
February 27th, 2008 at 7:30 am
joe,
It was definitely lost, but probably not because of my normal mind. I’m in the middle of tax season and so I think I really don’t know what I think! My mind is just a jumble of numbers floating around pinging off each other! Want me to do your taxes!!! Just kidding. Right outside of Sac? North, South, East or West? I live about 30 minutes north.
prez
February 27th, 2008 at 3:12 pm
East of Sac, in Antelope.
So, up near Yuba City/Marysville?
-joe
February 28th, 2008 at 4:45 am
As far as business travel goes on my last trip to France I sat by a business traveler who worked in L.A. and had to fly to France often for her company. We were squeezed in together in coach. I asked why -she said her company really watched their expenses–she was one of the accountants so she should know.
Walmart executives have to share hotel rooms to cut costs and other people live off expense accounts while traveling.
Since when did being a pastor become aquainted with being a CEO? Or was there a new book written?
February 28th, 2008 at 4:49 am
The ‘Prosperity Driven Church’ perhaps.
I may have missed something or been out of the loop on this thread but
what church are you helicopter enthusiasts discussing. Please tell -if they
can fly it we can hear about it.
February 28th, 2008 at 4:50 am
Man you haven’t lived till you had to sit in coach while your pastor
sits up in 1st class with the really important people.
February 28th, 2008 at 4:52 am
Oh yea –we sat in coach and he sat with his ‘good friend’
Larry Craig–tappin away. Ah yes - I remember it well. In fact we all
do.
February 28th, 2008 at 4:59 am
Oh right -you mean the ministry trip we all helped pay for.
If you’re going to talk private jets and pastors having to ‘get of of town’
every week -you’ve got to talk having your own condo in Washington D.C.
on C Street to go along with it. Now where we be without it- that is
a non-profit residence your congregation gets to pay for.
Singing the song from Chicago — give em the old Razzle Dazzle
come on and dazzle em.
Then we won’t see the strings move -right boys?
February 28th, 2008 at 6:37 am
The same Larry Craig of airport bathroom fame? Wow, I’d be soooo proud to be his friend…do they both know Ted Haggard also? The more you find out about these ‘leadership’ types, the more Matthew 23:10 rings true. “And do not be called leaders, for One is your leader, that is Christ.” (NASB)
February 28th, 2008 at 7:31 am
Now hold on just a sec there, whatHEsaid! You’re not implying we should actually start doing what the Bible commands us to do, are you???
Just imagine the ramifications.
-joe
February 28th, 2008 at 9:46 am
I fly several times a month, sometimes even weekly, for work. My coworker traveled so much last year he got 6 free flights. The only times we do business or first class is when we get bumped up there, which is very rare.
Don’t tell me it’s about the “comfort” of someone who has to travel a lot. It’s about economics. If I and my fellow business travelers can handle riding in the back of the bus with all the unwashed masses to keep costs down, so can the pastor whose mission it is to reach those people.
While reading some local news (Seattle Times) I was struck by the similarities between the featured non-profit, and the whole “employed by the church” experience in general (…three former employees testified before a judge that she would fly into rages, verbally abuse them and, on occasion, throw things…).
The local paper ran a story on the Seattle marathon and how only about 1% of the proceeds ends up going to charity. So the way it works is all the peons are working their butts off and raising as much money as possible, while dealing with controlling and domineering bosses who all seem to be using the charity for personal gain. But at least 1% is going to charity right? That’s better than 0% right?
The difference between the Seattle Marathon and just about every church I’ve been to? Seems like these people can talk about, and maybe even find a solution to, their problems (even in a public venue) without being told they’re going to hell or that they’re ruining the public’s perception of marathons.
Meanwhile, they’re starting to lose sponsorship and the exposure is causing some internal house-cleaning. A good thing in my opinion.
Shine a light on people and they tend to start behaving better.
*cough* Senate Investigations *cough*
February 28th, 2008 at 10:07 am
Yes, we all do.
February 28th, 2008 at 10:12 am
Our theory is this is why they stay in Boise even though it’s obvious by their behavior that they don’t really WANT to be pastors of a church. they’d rather be full time in DC. rubbing shoulders on flights to DC with good friend Mr Craig. But if they sold the church, who would fund the condo??
What a dilemma for them. Life is so hard suffering for the Lord.
February 28th, 2008 at 10:13 am
That’s how I feel too. Our own CEO, doesn’t get to fly first class, because the board considers it an ineffecient use of funds.
February 28th, 2008 at 10:26 am
Brian said
Time will tell. The problem is they feel they are entitled to all the riches according to their faith doctrine. Will they really change or just become less publically noticeable? ie if they can stay under the radar they can keep at least one of their vacation homes.
February 28th, 2008 at 3:48 pm
You said it De-Tox –who’s gonna know–at least for now.
Wait -whats that I hear - an IRS auditer coming to town and flying coach.
February 28th, 2008 at 3:54 pm
Can you spell whistleblowers? Lets get cleaning -you’re all making us look bad.
There are real Christians embedded in these organizations –for instance an employee of Kenneth Copeland’s recently stepped forward. He resigned in
2005 when he saw they were co mingling funds –that is using ministry dollars
to invest in outside personal investments like cattle and oil.
Do you leaders think we’ve all checked our integrity in at the door?
ts rarely outsiders who call down the house of cards-
but a true insider.
Remember Sheron Watkins & Enron?
February 28th, 2008 at 5:17 pm
For anyone interested in a great organization that was featured on 20/20 and Niteline, check out ministrywatch.com
This guy is doing a great job of lifting the sheets on these crooks.
February 29th, 2008 at 6:48 am
Sorry joebib, I just had one of those anabaptist moments….I do try to keep them under control, but sometimes they just pop out!
Do you know of any medications that would help?
February 29th, 2008 at 8:12 am
Sure do! Just keep reading this blog! It’s better than Valium.
You know, how the Scriptures supposedly aren’t for today, they aren’t to be taken literally, they don’t really mean what they clearly say, we’re under grace, that’s from the OT, we’re-not-bitter-we’re-just-concerned, I’m-not-judging-but-in-fact-you’re-judging-me, and so on?
Don’t forget one of these next time you’re at the C-BUS-C online store…
(Voiceover)
Introducing…the Amazing New “RONCO Obscure-Bible-Verse Chopper”!! Takes those pesky Bible verses and gets rid of ‘em in a jiffy! Before you know it, you, too, will be nudge-nudging, wink-winking and chop-chopping your way through the Bible! It’s fun! It’s easy! No fuss! No muss! Find a verse that convicts you? That’s OK! One that doesn’t agree with your own opinion? Don’t worry! Here’s how: just look for another verse that doesn’t make any sense to you…turn the dial…push the button…chop-chop! chop-chop! And…PRESTO!…they’re gone!! You’ll never have to obey the Bible ever again, we promise!! And, hey! Moms and Dads! Why not buy a couple? Kids love em, too!!
(Lemme save y’all the trouble…I’ll supply of few of ‘em to getcha started:)
Selling one’s daughter: Exodus 21:7
Sabbath breaking: Exodus 35:2
Touching swine’s skin: Leviticus 11:7-8
Eating shellfish: Leviticus 11:12
Male/Female uncleanness: Leviticus 15:1-33
Wearing mixed-fabric clothing: Leviticus 19:19
Owning slaves: Leviticus 25:44
Head-coverings for women: 1 Corinthians 11:5-6
;)
-joe
February 29th, 2008 at 8:59 am
Wow! What’s the price of that RONCO gizmo? I’m really tempted. (I can resist anything but temptation!)
February 29th, 2008 at 9:18 am
Oh, I almost forgot, thanks for the handy list of scriptures that need ‘re-evaluation’. The one that is short circiting my cerebral processes isn’t on your list! Jeremiah 19:5….how can everything be predestined if some things never enter God’s mind???? Can you RONCO that one for me, I’ll place my order soon.
February 29th, 2008 at 1:07 pm
…and sporting a tired navy blue suit and battered brief case. IRS employees certainly aren’t in it for the riches now are they?
unlike some preachers we know!
February 29th, 2008 at 7:13 pm
U got that right De-Tox. Did they know there is a handy
1 -800 number to report those suspected of IRS tax abuse- & fraud
that includes 503-C organization? Well we do.
Keep hiding behind the 503-C wall for now boys –who knows how much
longer till you ruin it for those who are truly the Lord’s work.
Lets get into dedicated offerings for a moment. Say raising money to help victims of lets say ‘Hurricane Katrina’ and then suddenly changing it in a staff meeting. Hey no problem –we really felt we wanted to help those people last
week but this week well its a new sound sytem. We’ll send em ’some’ money
down the road -that is if they ever make it to Boise. Right.
If only I was kidding about this. Now where is that phone number again?
February 29th, 2008 at 7:15 pm
What you mean you’re not covering for them any more. Now where is
that John Bevere book when I need it!
March 1st, 2008 at 4:13 am
One can be had for a case of cheap beer, a 12-pack of Henry’s, or a short round at the local microbrewery.
Well, get ready for a wait cuz they’re on backorder. I understand it has to do with some sort of re-labeling problem, due to the massive rivets used.
I’ve also heard there’s some sort of in-house squabbling goin on in regard to precisely which name to put on them. Apparently, they can’t decide whether to call it the “CATCO-Chopper,” the “CBCCO-Chopper,” or simply the “__________-Chopper,” where you get to fill in your own name upon arrival…FICM, for instance.
Royalties are a big deal, you know.
-joe
March 1st, 2008 at 7:42 am
Now you are scaring me, Joebib. In an online group I frequented back in 2002, they were discussing dogma, in which someone asked about ‘newer dogma’. I wrote:
March 1st, 2008 at 9:35 am
This is the kind of thing that happens from me hanging out with these “Holy Ghost” guys and gals too much.
I guess Mom was right after all. She always used to say:
-joe
March 2nd, 2008 at 6:43 am
Well then, you’re gonna need a bigger belt.
‘Scrupe
March 5th, 2008 at 1:47 pm
I welcome any and all emails about the WORD of FAITH doctrine (and the prosperity doctrine, name it and claim it). My email is: jimlsmith@catt.com or visit our website at www.battlefieldchurchoffaith.org.
Google: FALSE TEACHING WORD OF FAITH (by Jim Smith) it’s a FREE book EXPOSING what I learned as a licensed and ordained Pastor inside their CAMP!!! It’s crap…excuse my french…not really french and I beg forgiveness if that is considered a sware word. I have been pastoring for 8 years and my desire is to help those that have fallen between the cracks of that false teaching…if you are not healed…because you lack faith…how destruction that belief is!!! God heals everybody…NO WAY…not biblical!! I am not tearing down these men and those ministries but the Apostle Paul said that we are responsible for exposing FALSE DOCTRINE. I have hate mail and death threats about this book…but bottom line is…THE BELIEVE CHRIST WAS RIPPED OFF THE CROSS AND DRAGGED INTO HELL, THERE HE WAS TORTURED FOR 3 DAYS AND THEN DIED SPIRITUALLY. HE WAS THEN BORN AGAIN SPIRITUALLY ON THE BURNING SIDE OF HELL…THE CORE BELEIF OF WORD OF FAITH IS NOT HEALING AND PROSPERITY… BUT DEEPER THEN THAT “THE JESUS DIED SPIRITUALLY DOCTRINE.” And that ladies and gentlemen is blasphamy!!! I welcome your emails or call our ministry at 706-YES-PRAY (706-937-7729). All of our tapes and CD’s (and books)…all items….ARE FREE!!! God bless… Pastor Jim Smith
March 5th, 2008 at 1:53 pm
who does he heal then? and how does he decide who to heal?
March 5th, 2008 at 2:14 pm
It’s a lot like the children’s game “duck, duck, goose” only you use the words “cursed” and “anointed” instead. Also, you get bonus points for tithing.
Seriously, though, the idea that everyone will be healed and whole in this life is indefensible in the Scripture and anyone who says otherwise is being willfully blind or is trying to sell you something.
If complete health was attainable in this life why would Paul say,
Paul isn’t referring to “health & wealth”, he’s referring to the Resurrection which he details in 1 Corinthians 15.
Also, if I’m able to attain perfect health in this life, then wouldn’t it follow that I shouldn’t have to die? Isn’t death the product of disease and decay of our mortal sinful bodies?
Another blog I frequent recently tackled Wendell’s so-called doctrine on healing, and it’s worth a read: http://www.doctrinetalk.com/?p=84
March 5th, 2008 at 5:01 pm
Yeah, word of faith doctrine is a joke.
March 5th, 2008 at 5:21 pm
ex:
I assume since you quoted someone that you agree with what he is saying. Do you believe that the Brownsville Revival was a counterfeit revival and why.
Prez
March 5th, 2008 at 7:46 pm
SPFD must be pissed he didn’t make the list and Larry Huch did.
March 5th, 2008 at 8:32 pm
Wow …. that doctrine ignores a lot of script