Eliot Spitzer
Posted on March 13th, 2008 by catalyst into the Politics categoryI have had a request for a comment thread on Eliot Spitzer. I can't really think of any way to tie this into Religion/City Bible/Prosperity Doctrine, but that doesn't mean we can't talk about it.
My take, I feel very badly for his wife and children. And I'm not sure why the wives always go up to the podium while their husband admits making mistakes. Let 'em twist up there alone. I did catch Governor McGreevey's ex-wife on Larry King the night the Spitzer story broke, and she said when the story broke about her husband, she did it for their daughter. She wanted to show their daughter that she still loved her father. And I guess I can respect that.
Other questions we could talk about:
- Should prostitution be legal? If it's legal to pay two people to have sex on film, (pornography), then I'm not sure why it's illegal to just pay for sex because you want it. I understand the moral implications, but I'm not sure as a publicy policy reason, what the difference is.
- Would you stay with your spouse if they cheated on you? I'm not married, so my take is no. But, I assume it's different if you are married with children.
- Why do seemingly smart people, make such dumb decisions? Spitzer was brilliant and he had everything to lose by going to a prostitute. So why did he do it? Stupidity? Arrogance? Lust?
- Who can't wait for the in-depth Barbra Walters interview with Ashley Alexandra Dupree aka "Kristen"? (raises hand)
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March 13th, 2008 at 10:14 am
Okay, I’ll bite:
- Society has the right to regulate commerce and labor, so prostitution should either remain illegal or be heavily regulated to protect sex workers. Sex workers in the porn industry should also be regulated (i.e. safer sex practices, regular mandatory testing, health insurance, workers comp., etc.).
- If my partner cheated on me, I would consider leaving — but it wouldn’t be an automatic decision. I wouldn’t discard a long-time relationship just because of a one-time incident, but I would probably leave if the betrayal was romantic and over a long period. If we had children, then I would try to stay until the children were raised.
- The amateur psychotherapists are saying that Spitzer is known for his aggressive personality, so paid sex may have been an ego-boost for him. Others also postulate that he discovered the high-priced hooker service through the executives he prosecuted. So, it seems arrogance and stupidity were his downfall.
- I do not plan on watching the Barbara Walters interview. I doubt Dupree will say anything interesting while she may still be prosecuted. It would be interesting if she does hint at disclosing political, religious and others figures that are supposed to maintain a moral/ethical image.
It is interesting that high profile religious and political figures really believe no one is watching and they can get away with these sex scandals. Of anyone, Spitzer should have known banks would track his transactions — especially to suspicious entities.
March 13th, 2008 at 12:00 pm
Sad, sad story, but all too common these days. Seems like every month some political, religious, or high profile leader is getting busted for something stupid. Wonder if it’s just because we have more media now then we did 30 years ago so its getting reported on more, or if there really is just more stupid people in leadership roles these days? Hard to say. I for one cannot judge because I have never been in a high profile life situation. We can all sit back and say “what an idiot, I would never do that.” But really? What if you had unlimited money ($4,500 on a hooker, really?), were surrounded by yes men/women, had the public adoring you and telling you how great you are all the time, could open a magazine/newspaper/website page and read about yourself and all the great things your doing; you don’t think you would be a different person? I know I would. And I am a sinful, human man. If I had all those things knocking at my door everyday, who’s to say I wouldn’t do something stupid too.
We live in a celebrity obsessed, fame and money culture. Every young person wants riches and glory these days. I even saw a study where 1 out of every 3 kids surveyed in our nations public schools would rather be an assistant to a famous person then a doctor or lawyer because as the assistant they get to be around celebrities all day. How sad! Maybe all this lifting of the sheets will help some people realize that fame and money ain’t all it’s cracked up to be. I would rather be a nine to five accountant living a simple life and taking care of my family then Health Ledger, Ted Haggard, or Elliot Spitzer.
March 13th, 2008 at 12:10 pm
Does the prostitute want it? Assuming that is a naive statement or thats what the pimps want us to think. I recently attended an anti-prostitution lyceum where we heard former prostitutes talk about their experiences. Their stories were heart-breaking.
Then there are issues about public health - for the johns and sex worker. The average sex worker or prostitute’s lifespan is much shorter. And how about AIDS, STD’s and who is going to provide treatment for that? With sex workers, the younger 16 yr old brings in more $$$ than an experienced 25 yr old? It’s as though a female is valuable and beautiful at 16 but her value depreciates by the year like a used car. This is not equivalent to a career. A professional woman with experience and education gets raises and is valued for experience. This does not happen in sex business because younger girls are more valued and virginity is a dirty thing. Some johns want a very young girl (such as 10 yrs old) because they want a virgin.
I see making prostitution legal a moral issue as well as violation of women’s rights and dignity.
There is a number women are forced into prostitution even in some European countries where prostitution is legal. However, their governments dont want to address it because they want others to believe sex trafficking only happens in 3rd world countries and that the women are wanting to be in it and the sex workers are being taken care of. Nope, doesnt work that way.
Why? Since prostitution is heavily regulated, some pimps dont want to deal with it. At the same time we can’t be ‘laissez-faire’ about this because that would be horrible and every gross sin would be practiced.
So the easy way is to traffic young women, some of these girls are very young. Pimps go for young girls because they are impressionable and easy to manipulate. I heard an ex prostitute tell me that she was manipulated into this at the age of 14. This happened in Portland not another country. The pimps have a term known as ‘break a bitch’. She said they harass, threaten and manipulate a girl to such an extend that she has no say and basically is an object. She said that when she was a prostitute, she used to believe “hey, he’s not using me but I’m using money” and believe this was an easy way to make money when she gets to sleep with hot guys. Only later she realized what it was and she couldnt get out of it. She told me that she was made to sleep with 15 guys per night. And if a prostitute is sick or cannot function, she is thrown out.
As for strippers, which has been legal for a long time, there are no chances of a strippers union. Strippers have high alcoholism rates becuz of the nature of the job. They hate it but have to believe otherwise.
March 13th, 2008 at 12:16 pm
Lady Almond, not arguing with any of your points.
But couldn’t we apply the same standards that are applied to the Adult Entertainment industry to Prostitution.
-Must be 18 years old.
-Must pass health inspection.
If we regulated prostituion wouldn’t it help protect women by creating legal standards that everyone has to follow?
I actually don’t know the answer, I’m just curious if there’s a better way..
March 13th, 2008 at 12:45 pm
Jumping on the bandwagon, but has anyone seen her myspace pics?
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2008/0312084kristen1.html
Would you say she’s worth your career and $80,000+ ?
March 13th, 2008 at 12:57 pm
$200 and my career as a Sandwhich Artist, max!
I kid. I kid.
She's a pretty girl, and I'm sure she had a rough home life.
Girls with parents who stay together and support their children, don't usually end up as prositutes.
I'm reminded of Christ's words, when he confronted a prostitute.
"Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone."
March 13th, 2008 at 4:58 pm
ONLY IN AMERICA…this is great. This girl has now become the biggest name in our country. She is everywhere. Her myspace page has gotten over 5 million views since it came out who she was. She is going to be interviewed with Barbra Walters on national TV. Radio, TV news, newspapers, and internet outlets are talking about her 24/7. The discussion of prostitution and sex is on the forfront of everyone’s mind, around water coolers nationwide. Ever think God brings these things to light for a reason? I do. Gets people talking and brings things to light.
March 13th, 2008 at 5:24 pm
Europeans see us Americans as being way too puritanical, and we are. Morally, Spitzer did the wrong thing. Legally, I see no reason to stop what he did, as long as it happened between consenting adults. Biblical principles apply to the church and are not necessarily incumbent on the rest of society.
March 13th, 2008 at 7:48 pm
Under the heading of ‘other questions we could talk about’ might be the over all importance given to sexual problems in our society. I mean how important is Elliot’s goof compared with the resignation of Admiral Fallon? Or the decline in value of the US dollar. Two years ago gold was $625 p/oz. today it is up to $1000. Using gold as a yardstick, the value of the dollar has declined by 1/3 or more in two years!
I don’t think the media asks tough questions any more, and apparently the US populace isn’t bright enough to know.
March 13th, 2008 at 8:32 pm
Catalyst,
Its not the sinner I hate, but the sin. I know that’s such a Christian cliche but its true with me. The girls beauty and worth is being objectified into a commodity and being trashed. God did not create us ladies to be objects. Its not that I’m jealous.
I’ll never hate a prostitute but feel horrible about their situation. I am really grieved when i see a young girl think its empowering to pose nude on playboy, strip or sell her body. She is not going to gain respect. I’ll continue to see that kid as my own younger sister. The same concept applies to everything else.
The pimps and men who do this are also guilty. It takes two to tango. I believe johns should be arrested as well.
Yes, we can regulate it to be 18+ but however, pornographers get 18 yr olds that look prepubescent and like 16 yr olds and have these young-looking 18 yr olds dress like teens. Even though its legal, it is actually ‘training’ a man to be pedophilic (if thats a word). Then these men cant get enough and actually go for kids. How would you feel if an adult male was lustfully looking at your 13 yr old daughter?
Pornography has been shown to be strongly linked to domestic violence, pedophilia, rapes, sexual addictions. I believe prostitution & pornography are social evils. Also, it causes impotency, relational issues and ruined marriages. I believe prostitution and porn are social evils.
Enforcing can be tough because the pimps really manipulate the trafficked women. The pimps make threats about their families and its tough for the women to seek help because they are really enslaved.
In addition to making rules, we should do more. I support organizations and ministries like The Dream Center that helps these women get out of it. The main reason is poverty, lack of education and others.
I know there will be others that will disagree but I’m an anti-porn feminist. I’ve seen and listened to the other views but this is where i stand.
March 13th, 2008 at 8:40 pm
Our American media is a total joke. I have a theory that it kills your brain cells.
I get my news from alternative sources and international newspapers, that actually ask good questions, discuss real issues. I hate to say this but sometimes it seems people from other countries are more educated and aware of things than our American people, who ironically have more access to information.
March 14th, 2008 at 4:27 am
I think the root of why he was capable of this is because he succumbed to the biblical principle of falling into the same sin when judging others’ sin, seen in Galatians 6:1…
as well as in Corinthians…
Jesus addresses this same attitude…
Could it be that he was just a little too intense/arrogant/self-righteous in his efforts to punish “sinners,” and that he thus left himself open to the spiritual law of being tempted in the same fashion?
I wonder if Peter would have later fallen into the sin of denying Jesus if he hadn’t so arrogantly boasted at the Last Supper (Luke 22:33-34, NASB)?
It’s situations like this that remind those of us who take it upon ourselves to judge others, of wanting to cast stones at the sins of famous preachers like JS, JB, or TH, or at the “sins” of elected officials like BC (the ML fiasco), GB (the war), or DC (Halliburton) — or even the directing of criticism at the teachings of FD/WS/DC/CBC/TCC/ACC/MFI
— that we ourselves need to maintain an attitude of humility, lest we also find ourselves in the unfortunate position of being allowed by God of falling into sin, due to our arrogance/self-righteousness. 
-joebib
March 14th, 2008 at 7:40 am
“because he succumbed to the biblical principle of falling into the same sin when judging others’ sin”
I guess you’re doomed to marry a gay man?
Sorry about the cross-post reference but it after Joe’s & Doc’s tirade against gays even after I pointed out similar Scriptures about not judging others, this is too ironic. So in this case it’s OK to preach mercy and forgiveness lest we judge ourselves, but it’s OK to condemn the gays unilaterally. OK, Joe, I see how you are.
I’m not excusing any kind of sin, I’m saying it’s odd that Christians have different levels of sins that qualify for our understanding and those that are unforgivable. Ok, rant over. Back on topic.
Spitzer fell into typical celebrity syndrome. He had power and wealth and not enough people to tell him “no”. People who have a meteoric rise to fame and fortune are usually ill-equipped to handle it. They lose perspective of what is important. They are so used to getting what they want that they fail to see the true consequences of their actions.
March 14th, 2008 at 8:43 am
FICM I couldn’g agree more. See my comments about gays under the “OBAMA and CIVIL UNIONS” posts and about the propblem with a celebrity obsessed culture under this post above. I brought up the same points. Sad how so many Christians rate sin. Sorry boys sin is sin and God forgives and shows mercy to all of it. And yes I do believe that they “good” person who appears to have everything together is just as bad as the serial killer, child molester, gay person, and prostitute if neither have Christ.
March 14th, 2008 at 12:02 pm
I guess I just got pwned!
Actually laughed out loud on that one. Thanks
(BTW, FICM, you were the odds-on favorite to [try and] call me on that one.)
So, anyone who goes on record as opposing something clearly delineated in the Word of God as sin — in this case sodomy — is guilty of “judging?” Is that your position? OK, FICM, I see how you are.
FYI, FICM, the way I am — which would be evident had you taken the time to carefully read what I said about Mr. Spitzer’s “judging” of others in context, as well as with the verses — is this: I asked if his judging was done in an overly intense, arrogant self-righteousness.
I’ve never said we can’t and shouldn’t address sin in ourselves and others, as this is commanded by Scripture (1 Thess. 5:21; 1 John 4:1, etc.). I’m frankly a bit surprised you need to be reminded of that, as this biblical injunction is forever being chanted around here in defense of doing exactly that to the MFI crowd.
Any judging, however, is to be done within the parameters of the biblical proviso: with introspective humility. (I again provide Galatians 6:1 for you to read.)
And that, in my opinion, is what is almost always lacking by those who judge others.
-joe
March 14th, 2008 at 5:29 pm
A little retrospective humility helps, too.
March 14th, 2008 at 11:42 pm
I agree we all have a right to express our opinions as to the reasons behinds someone’s questionable behaviour. However, we also must be careful that we do not judge, lest we be judged. Afterall, I have not met anyone who is not “broken” somehow. Fortunately for them, it will not get the attention those in the public eye do who really are no different then the rest of us.