Has City Bible Church withdrawn from MFI?
Posted on April 2nd, 2008 by catalyst into the Comments From Others categoryWe recently received this email from a reader:
Do either of you know anything about Frank withdrawing his membership from MFI? Would that mean he'd be withdrawing his church as well? (If so, no doubt it has something to do with Bob MacGregor being Mr. Iverson's choice for the next MFI top dog.)
If Frank is withdrawing completely, I wonder if he's starting something of his own to replace it?
Can any of you verify this statement? Or is it just a rumor? If true, I think it's probably one of the few decisions by Frank that I actually commend. MFI is a pretty useless organization.
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April 2nd, 2008 at 7:27 am
I can’t imagine a scenario where this would be true. The MFI offices are above the CBC offices on the campus there. With PF as one of the “Apostlic Leadership Team”, he would have to effectively thumb his nose at all the other ALT members and kick MFI out of the building. PF is where he is today because of his relationships with these men, and the CBC eldership is completely bought-in to MFI as well. I don’t think he could mastermind the kind of church mutiny against the organization that keeps CBC at the head of the MaFIa.
Once you’re in the family, you’re never out.
April 2nd, 2008 at 7:32 am
On the other hand, I wonder if these rumors have started because Iverson chose MacGregor as his successor to head MaFIa. I still think that at best it’s a rumor.
April 2nd, 2008 at 7:47 am
So far, it sounds like a rumor to me, too. MFI is a fellowship for senior pastors and not for churches. The idea of withdrawing personally and yet keeping one’s church in the organization does not fit the MFI’s purpose. Anyone interested in this can go to the MFI website and get continual updates as to who is on the leadership team an who is still a member: http://www.mfi-online.org/
April 2nd, 2008 at 7:51 am
I agree with FICM. While Frank is undoubtedly pissed off that he isn’t Iverson’s successor, I cannot envision CBC withdrawing from MFI. CBC is the MFI mother ship, after all.
On another topic: I noticed today that CBC is the only church in Oregon with registered lobbyists, i.e., the church has TWO lobbyists on retainer to represent its interests in Salem.
It IS legal, contrary to popular belief, for non-profits to lobby, as long as it doesn’t comprise a large percentage of an organization’s overall resources and work. So, my concern isn’t the legality. My concern is that the lobbyist indicates the existence of the fact that CBC has a political agenda and political interests. This seems contrary to the life Jesus lived on this earth while incarnate, and contrary to Scripture generally. For years, I have felt that CBC’s involvement in politics has been inappropriate, i.e., endorsing ultra-conservative Republicans and essentially sending the message directly and indirectly that all “real” Christians are/must be conservative politically, and these things have concerned me greatly, as I know they’ve concerned many of you. Which is why I thought you might find this factoid interesting.
April 2nd, 2008 at 8:57 am
FICM said:
Good one! Love it. Wish I’d thought of it!
Joebib warned me that this is a site rife with conspiracies. Perhaps one of the leaders of this blog has infiltrated MFI? From the MFI website:
April 2nd, 2008 at 8:59 am
So, I went to check out the MFI site that Mackin linked to and started looking around in the photo gallery. I found this picture particular interesting and not because of the picture but because of the name of the file:
Bob and Frank Talk Money
April 2nd, 2008 at 9:09 am
That’s hilarious. I think we need to have a photo caption contest with that one.
My entry: “Yeesh! That’s not nearly enough. I’m getting back on-stage and asking for more.”
April 2nd, 2008 at 9:16 am
I think you all underestimate Frank’s egotism. If he isn’t going to take over MFI, then why does he care about being a member? What does he get out of it? And if it’s loyalty to the family, I suspect that loyalty is beginning to wane. I don’t doubt that this is just a rumor, but I bet it’s a rumor started by Frank to gauge the response of the MaFIa family.
April 2nd, 2008 at 9:28 am
“Look, this one has room for a few more zeros, Frank.”
April 2nd, 2008 at 11:53 am
CBC is still a member, but Frank has completely checked out. There is a quiet “network” of CBC related churches and pastors forming behind the scenes separate from MFI.
April 2nd, 2008 at 12:18 pm
Recovering Charasmatic said: There is a quiet “network” of CBC related churches and pastors forming behind the scenes separate from MFI.
RC, this sounds very interesting but can you give us more specifics? if this is true, it is huge news because said leaders were always big on how “unified” they were and “divisions” were anathema; (if i remember correctly, you said that you used to be quite high in the spiritual food chain around there…)
but before i get carried away, several questions that instantly pop into my brain re: your statement are:
(1) is this network centered around the Prosperity Doctrine or the pastor named above - or both?
(2) what would the reasons be to form a separate organization (besides ego and maybe prosperity doctrines or conserving income stream)? as i’ve posted before, said pastor told me personally many years ago that he was the guy who began the MFI and did most of the work behind scenes with the monthly “seed bag,” etc, so the mantle transference to another could have been quite a hit for him; starting another organization himself, however, shows that he does not feel that he is “too busy” or “not pastoral enough” to handle such a group!
(3) is this network already beginning to pay dues to CBC?
(4) can you provide us any literature from the new group?
April 3rd, 2008 at 8:46 pm
We heard a rumor that Starbucks was offering him a position.
Lattes are very lucrative!
April 3rd, 2008 at 8:55 pm
What about the obvious- is Wendell Smith mad and how about his clone
Ken Wilde–rumor was it they were pulling out months ago.
What is this style of leadership they use–oh yea–always keep em
guessing!
April 5th, 2008 at 8:35 am
TWO lobbyists? On retainer? That sounds awesome…
I think we should start a list of the top ten reasons (rumors) why we refer to CBC as City Business Church.
Reason #10: They are the only church in Oregon with registered lobbyists to protect their interests. Two Lobbyists…One retainer…Zero Christ.
April 5th, 2008 at 8:48 am
Don’t know that there are any “dues” involved in CBC network. Just bringing churches that have started out from CBC “into the fold” so to speak. Kind of a power circle club, so to speak. Not exactly what MFI is, more a way from Frank to spread his influence more directly. I don’t think it is about the prosperity doctrine because they don’t actually indentify themselves with that directly, it’s just what they do. As far as ego, why does any Sr. Pastor do anything outside of their own walls? Becuase you always get to be a bigger deal when you aren’t at home. Of course it’s about ego. Late 50s, maybe another 5-10 years left as the main guy, you’ve gotta start thinking of ways to keep from falling off the radar the day you hand off the church. That’s all folks.
April 5th, 2008 at 9:22 am
Reason #9: How Frank and the leadership spend tithes and offerings, is NOBODIES business.
April 11th, 2008 at 1:43 pm
Reason #10: They are the only church in Oregon with registered lobbyists to protect their interests. Two Lobbyists…One retainer…Zero Christ.
Reason #9: Asking how Frank and the leadership spend tithes and offerings, is NOBODIES business.
Reason #8: Church policy on the poor: “If you’re poor, broke, jobless, and/or homeless….we come to you (helps make us look better), but don’t even think about coming to us. We wouldn’t want to upset any of our members.”
Reason #7: Church policy on money: “Money is the root of all evil - that’s why we insist that you give all of yours to us. We will make it holy for you.”
April 14th, 2008 at 6:01 pm
Sorry but still confused=although nothing new in the circus!
Did Frank leave MFI personally and was it announced? If I read correctly
he personally left but not CBC and where does Bob Mac G. figure into all of
this? Is he taking over the church in the future.
Thanks for clarifying.
Now for the next slight of hand trick.
April 16th, 2008 at 12:14 am
Just found out cbc is putting in a starbucks in the church lobby. They are moving the reception area and book store. It will be located there. FYI
April 16th, 2008 at 8:55 pm
Hate to be an I told you so!!–
Please refer to my earlier comment that Starbucks was offering him a position–
Lattes are Lucrative! Now on campus even.
April 17th, 2008 at 5:50 am
This talk about Starbucks is mildly funny but can’t be serious. They’d lose their tax exempt status and have to raise taxes - er, I mean, tithes to 15% to compensate for the loss in revenue.
April 17th, 2008 at 6:36 am
Back to the original question, on the City Bible web page there is still a link to MFI. Plus, on the MFI website you can find Frank listed among the Apostolic Leadership team here: MFI-ALT
So I think it’s safe to say this is an unsubstantiated rumor.
April 17th, 2008 at 1:09 pm
Anony
Anonymous, you might want to wait a bit and hit refresh on the MFI page. They won’t be excited about broadcasting the news, but it has to come out sometime.
April 17th, 2008 at 2:27 pm
To date, FD is still on the MFI site. I’m on their Black List, but I think that someone should contact MFI and ask them re this. Here’s the contact information:
E:info@mfi-online.org + P: 503-252-4634 + L: 9200 NE Fremont • Portland, OR 97220
April 18th, 2008 at 5:43 am
April 18th, 2008 at 5:47 am
Heh. Nice!
April 21st, 2008 at 9:33 am
It is true. They want to have it done before the conference. It will be like a Starbuck’s in Safeway or Freddy’s. CBC will hire and fire and run the cafe’, the employees will receive Starbuck’s training but be employee’s of CBC.
April 23rd, 2008 at 8:48 am
I found this site today, and in reading through the blogs and comments of contributors, it struck me how ’small’ the topics being discussed are relative to what we’re called to within the kingdom — such a spirit of judgment, gossip, taking pleasure in others shortfalls, etc. — no wonder creation still waits earnestly for the sons of God to be revealed — my sense is that we cannot be revealed so long as we invest our energies on such small matters that clearly are a manifestation of the flesh and not of the Spirit. This reads about as spiritlessly and secularly as some Hollywood tabloid. In my view (which I can only hope would be God’s as well, as I am no man’s judge) if a side-by-side of 1 Corinthians 13 and this site were done, the differences in spirit and potential for profitability to the kingdom would be stark indeed.
April 23rd, 2008 at 9:22 am
I’m not gonna defend everything on this blog. We definitely cross the line at times. I think on balance, it’s a good thing, but I understand those who disagree.
That said, check out this YouTube video from John Piper:
In this short clip, he most accurately captures the motivation behind this blog.
Is this blog perfect: No. But what City Bible is doing is worse, and so we go on….
April 23rd, 2008 at 9:49 am
DC, sometimes in life there are things that people don’t agree with or understand, and there is two ways to approach them. Fight back or run. This blog has become our method of fighting back. Now I agree that there are many ridiculous statements made on this blog and sarcasm / cynicism is ramped. But remember just because you don’t agree with it doesn’t mean it doesn’t serve a purpose. God always takes senseless things and makes them useful. Just because you can’t wrap your mind around it doesn’t mean others do not. So instead of judging in a manner that makes you sound hypocritical (you obviously vehemently oppose calling people out on their wrongs, yet you do the same thing), you should reflect and ask yourself why? Why are there so many people angry at the church? Why are there so many hurt believers in our society? Why are there so many people dissatisfied with what is going on in Christian culture today? Why does this blog exist? And in thinking long and hard about your answers I hope you will discover (as many of us have) that it may just be because there are people like you on the other side. And as long as you keep doing what you’re doing, we will keep doing what we are doing.
And in case you were wondering, to me this blog is not supposed to read as a spiritual tool for people to find the answers to the mysteries of the Bible. This blog is being used as a tool to question authority and call out backward theology that takes the emphasis off of Jesus and puts it on power, position, wealth, and class (hence the title “City Business Church.” And I know no matter what I say you will disagree as you are probably entrapped in a mindset that prohibits you from clearly thinking about the woes of the current state of Christianity. Trust me, 10 years ago I would have hated this blog as vehemently as anyone else. But God rescued me from the church and now I see the wrongness of my former ways. I pray that God will reveal the same truths to you and you will find peace in His Grace and grace alone.
April 23rd, 2008 at 11:10 am
Hello DC,
I’m making an assumption that you have not attended either CBC or PBC. I’m curious if you have any first hand experience with the church?
Twice in your post you used the word ’small’, qualifying “topics” and “matters”. Not to get us into a semantical squabble, but perhaps that is a another way of stating that the range of topics is narrow. I would agree that there seems to be a few major themes that find discussion here (e.g. money & power, which I suppose are connected more than separated). Makes me think of Richard Foster’s book Money, Sex and Power. But I digress.
What I will say though is that more than a decade of attendance and participation in CBC/PBC had an enormous impact on my life. Not all of them were negative, but in several areas I made significant life decisions based on strongly worded advice, which felt more like a mandate. Now, after a decade of being out of CBC I can look in the rearview mirror and see that things were done and said that are contrary to a healthy, well balanced church.