There Goes the Eldership
Posted on April 8th, 2008 by catalyst into the City Boobie Church categoryIt's a historic day at City Bible Church; they are about to get their first brown elder. Asim Trent is getting the call up to the big leagues.
PRESENTATION OF NEW ELDERS
As senior pastor I work with a group of leaders called the eldership which are the governing board of our local church. The process by which new elders are ordained is as follows. I present the current eldership with the names of the potential new elders. After they confirm these individuals, we as a leadership present them to the congregation to allow you to voice any biblical concerns about the individuals, then we call for a confirmation vote by the congregation.
The City Bible Church eldership is proud to present Asim Trent to you as a potential new elder. He has already proven his shepherd’s heart and biblical qualifications to serve our congregation and we are blessed to have him. We trust he will add to the decision-making process of the eldership and serve this congregation with integrity and wisdom.
Asim and Lisa Trent have been involved with City Bible Church for over 13 years. Asim has been involved in the youth ministry since the moment he got saved here at the age of 15 and has served in a variety of areas at CBC. For the past five years he has been serving in the youth department, currently as the Youth Pastor for the Rocky Butte campus. Asim and Lisa have two children, Houston and Elijah.
Pastor Frank Damazio
Call me arrogant, (I am) but I actually think a certain Mr. Knox's and Mr. Coffee's comments on this blog are what prompted the promotion. They helped call attention to the lack of minority leadership at City Bible.
To be fair, I do not want to diminish Asim Trent's accomplishments at all. He's a good guy, he's loyal, he deserves this honor. And he has a white wife. (So, you know, one step at a time.)
Anyway, I'm starting to come around to Frank. First he bails from MFI, and now he's putting a person of color in a position of leadership. I like it.
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April 8th, 2008 at 6:30 am
Asim and Lisa have good raport with the youth. He has put in the time and effort to show complete loyalty. You may be correct about the race issue, but I also think FD wants someone younger that he can easily control. You have to know that being appointed to eldership means COMPLETE buy in for the 9 campus vision, and unwavering loyalty to whatever is decided. (tithe, tithe, tithe!!!)
Do you know if Asim has any theological training? Even at PBC? I can remember him speaking after 9/11, seeming to dangle between calvinism and freewill, not being able to say anything other than “we can’t tell what God is doing”…
April 8th, 2008 at 12:21 pm
I do think Asim’s a great guy and my point in one of my post was to never denigrate him as a person, I just wanted to show you the ‘type’ of minorities CBC puts into leadership. But you know, if that minority starts acting TOO MINORITY “ish”, they will definetly get bounced out of leadership with the quickness. Congrats Asim, just stay in their lane and you should be fine!
and BTW, Mr. Knox’s has never posted on this God-forsaken site as far as I know!
April 8th, 2008 at 1:03 pm
“The process by which new elders are ordained is as follows. I present the current eldership with the names of the potential new elders…”
“I” is the senior pastor of this church…
This is clear proof of how pastor-kings surround themselves with their Yes Man courts: With the senior pastor being the only one who always initiates “to present the current eldership the names of potential new elders,” no one can be even considered a candidate for eldership without first being a Yes Man.
(The vote of the congregation is “confirmatory” only and functionally a farce.)
April 8th, 2008 at 10:05 pm
I get the feeling they are looking for “yes” people as elders here. If CBC had gusto they would put someone in with a truly different perspective. You know challenge the status quo. I’m not sure I could see Mr. Trent doing that. His wife, maybe, but Asim, probably not so much.
April 11th, 2008 at 12:57 pm
Awesome! Go Asim….he finally made it. I told him about a month ago that I was going to be praying for him that God would rescue him from that church and take him somewhere else. Wounder if he shared my words of “encouragement” with them and they decided the better act before he bounces? Just a thought.
You know when I first started posting on this thing I thought nobody really reads it. Boy was I wrong. This thing has more power to influence what they are doing up at that hill….its amazing.
April 12th, 2008 at 10:57 pm
Any wise, competitive business type will study their opposition (I am using nice words).
In my wealthy family the business-minded people play life kind of like a game of chess. Calculating and precise.
Then this thing called heart comes along and makes our man-made effort look like black stand up comedy — hilarious.
It’s all about peace and love without having to smoke the marijuana pipe.
It all comes from Jesus if we seek him with faith like a child.
He is the source, and you very well might be finding yourself seeking him ALL ALONE for some seasons.
But those are great seasons. Sometimes we just need a vacation alone with the Lord and his word to shut out all of the NEGATIVE AND SCARY things people like to scream about from up top.
Faith like a free, simple child.
A child can’t play manipulative games.
A child isn’t calculating.
It just acts innocently and freely on faith.
Just watch small children play sometime (not in a creepster status way). If they are young enough, you will notice an innocent ignorance about them.
Until something corrupts their natural joy, they will remain innocent and pure (which usually means happy)
It’s just like 2Pac said — THUG LIFE
The
Hate
U
Give
Little
Infants
F*cks
Everyone
So go back to when you were an infant, shut out the haters and the hateful voices, find your peace (even if it means solitude for a season) and seek Jesus for who he really is.
I personally can’t stand listening to people beat me up while I am down in a mistake. I have to separate myself from anyone that inflicts guilt or ignorantly states the obvious, crystal clear truth in a condescending way.
This has pretty much separated me from almost every “Christian” I have known.
I basically have to go around lying to everyone in order to maintain a suitable, acceptable front.
I refuse to lie. I refuse to accept the fact that there are hypocritical “folk” that can’t handle the truth they KNOW exists just because it has forever been the “hip” and “in” Christian thing to do.
I know that Sundays and church are great to breathe fresh life into the soul and I know you want everyone to look clean and pretty (and act like it too) so you can all be inspired by a general pure image which carries into purity.
but you don’t see the torture in the souls who could never confess what they do behind closed doors.
The needy and broken are here to show God’s glory though his PEOPLE who ARE NOT needy and broken.
its like the most obvious equation
but - is so inconvenient for people who don’t have the “time” (or whatever its called) to help the less desirable crowd.
But just keep taking that magnifying glass to the good book and you will see :] — The true life and riches of Jesus will eventually be shown and will drown out the false riches of wealth and personal gain.
April 13th, 2008 at 8:39 am
oh, and fame (in the name of Jesus of course)
as if He cared about fame when He came to this earth…
April 14th, 2008 at 7:28 am
It no longer surprises me, but I still shake my head to clear up the dizziness when something like this goes down. I told a few old CBC alumni of this event last weekend and they all yelped, “WHAT???”
Once again, PF has proved that it’s more important to drink his Kool Aid than to have credentials or credibility. Yes, Asim is a nice guy, but the dude is barely even 30 years old, and has no more education than a high school diploma. His only credentials are working for Dougie. Yet they have him teaching at PBC and now he is in a position of “authority” at CBC? I think the term “elder” in this case is a bit of an oxymoron.
For fun, I googled his name and the first few hits were of him bungee jumping on Youtube and a passing mention of a trip to Japan, and then our beloved site here. The official CBC site didn’t even make the front page. Way to have an impact, buddy! I think if I were a prominent pastor and google didn’t bring up my main church info up at the top I’d want to “lay hands on” on my webmaster. hehe
You’d be surprised who lurks and comments here under a pseudonym. Not to mention all of the former elders and professors who have used their real names.
April 14th, 2008 at 7:51 am
I do not know Asim but this thread brings a couple of thoughts to mind:
In my view, once the church turns economic and political more than being led by the Spirit and the greater kingdom of God, IMAGE and SAFETY become the two highest values that drive senior pastors’ decisions and promotions.
Image:
Will the new leader improve the public image of the senior pastor and the eldership? I know one senior pastor who made it a point to have an older man on his eldership - and stand on the platform regularly - so that it would help his younger image look more mature and credible. The same pastor used to dye his hair with gray so that he would look older and more mature.
Safety:
Will the new elder be compliant, easy to control, and pose no ideological or political threat to the senior pastor system? When compliance becomes the guiding value, then a lack of any formal education is the best way to pick ‘em! (and definitely stay away from those potentially free-thinking ones who have been home-schooled!)
If he does have any education, then it should be only or mainly in that system’s schools or those approved by that system. When I attended Warner Pacific College (Church of God, Anderson, Indiana), my pastor at the time told me something like this: “I’ve been watching you as you’ve attended Warner Pacific, and I don’t think that anything bad from there has gotten into your spirit. That’s good.”
April 14th, 2008 at 11:33 am
This just means the end to Mr Asim’s tenure at City Bible. If you look at the list of elders most recently placed at City Bible 2 of them are no longer even in the church!!! Gilpin and SPES!!! So in the past several years this church has lost those two guys and Larry Asplund and Jan Weinstein!!! Seems to me the PF is just trying to rid the old regime and get his intern guys in places of authority!!! Sad
April 14th, 2008 at 1:42 pm
Hey Dave, do you recall one of the BT Pub books back in the day that had a picture on the cover that showed Iverson and his elders of the time? They’re all looking very serious and progressive (for the 80’s). I thought it was “Team Ministry” but the current version has a picture of a rope on it. I was just wondering if there was any irony to be had in this situation. I can’t remember if I read it in my PBC days or not, and I doubt if I had a copy. I was just curious to know what Dick and Bill would think of PF’s current “team”.
April 14th, 2008 at 3:01 pm
FICM, Nice to hear from you; hope all is well.
Oh, yes, the Team Ministry book…As I understand it, the author had Ray Grant ghost write the book for him. Because of this, the book came out so “democratic sounding” that there were more than one complaint/inquiries from the field like: This isn’t the way that BT is really run; how can they get away with publishing such a peoples-rule-centered book?
A certain other power talked to the author and told him that he should write his own books from now on! I don’t know if the author ever had the book re-written or re-wrote it himself. This highlights the danger of having a ghost writer - esp. a ghost writer whose work one may not proof before publishing!
The graphic of the rope lasso was meant to communicate the truth of “many strands working together to accomplish one purpose…” but I think that “ex-city bible slave” and those who have ever read The Phantom of the Opera (sorry, FICM, you self-admitted “non-romantic!”) may take the noose with a little different connotation…
PS: I always wondered why the powers that be ever approved the photograph on the cover of the book, Team Ministry! Every elder on the cover looked, in my opinion, either like they were dying, extremely constipated or that they were very sad and unhappy that they were a strand in that particular noose.
April 14th, 2008 at 4:10 pm
I agree. PF is trying to push CBC in a new direction and infuse the place with young blood. Asim was the obvious choice….as someone who will be a yes man to the big dog, add youth and color to the old whitewash that’s existed there for years, and help the church breakaway from the Dick Iverson days, he’s the man! Plus it’s a one up on guys like Bob McGregor, who had Asim as one of his “prominent” leader types in his youth group back in the day. Doing this puts guys like Bob who left to start their own churches on notice that “CBC is the church of the future.” This is church politics at its finest…..
April 15th, 2008 at 6:18 am
Until now, it hasn’t bothered me about the things people have posted here, because from what I have gathered, the posts have had a common theme, from people who have been hurt or downright abused by the entrenched rulership at CBC, City Church, CLF, the Boise bunch, etc.
Somehow, it seems different with young Trent and his wife. What I gather from the original post and ensuing comments, is that he has been a quiet and humble member / brother, involved and working the best way he knows how. Trent and his wife sound like good people.
In the listing of his credentials, an obvious one was omitted: undoubtedly he loves Jesus and Jesus him, undoubtedly the Holy Spirit is with him and in him. If age were a factor, then count out young Timothy, the young king, David. If a college education were required, then count out all the apostles.
Have we become so cynical and jaded that we take a position contrary to *everything* that happens at CBC? It just seems to me that concerning the issue of “credentials” and “age”, it wasn’t very long ago people complained that the only way to become a leader at CBC was age, degree, PBC ed., MFI membership, etc. Now there comes one who is without such credential(s) and fault is found with that, as well.
For me, that scripture speaks to the contrary / apathetic nature of men … might young Trent and his wife be the choice of the Lord? Dare we sneer at him if he is?
Perhaps you all know something that I don’t, but for me, this particular blog-thread has taken a rather cruel turn, on a brother who does not deserve it.
‘Scrupe no more
April 15th, 2008 at 7:19 am
Scrupe,
To be fair, I do feel a bit bad for seeming to come across as Asim-bashing, but that wasn’t my intent. What perhaps doesn’t come across here is the historical context of hirings & firings in just the past few years, which makes this decision seem so preposterous. Namely, the numerous firings (or resignations) of elders and PBC teachers who had all of the qualifications that young Mr. Trent does not. People who were educated and experienced and were capable leaders within the church were let go, because (we assume) they didn’t fall in step with Frank’s “vision”. What else can you conclude when numerous men of stature have left or been fired from Frank’s team, and he starts promoting younger men whose only credentials are working for Doug? Are we to merely pat Asim on the back and say, “Good job!” or should we ask him, “Do you know what you’re getting into here?” Asim’s age has little to do with my apparent cynicism, it’s his lack of education and experience outside of the domes that bothers me. I had the same reservations about Doug when he was promoted, but at least he finished PBC. The majority of pastors & “elders” on staff are young men, most of whom have little/no experience or education outside of CBC/PBC. Shouldn’t that worry people just a little?
At the risk of a lightning bolt hitting me here, I’m going to go out on a limb and say that assuming that every church decision is God’s doing is a rather precarious supposition. Maybe in this case it is, but as Jesus said, we should judge a tree by its fruit. Attributing everything to God because it involves the hiring and firing of pastors seems dubious at best. It gives men like PF a blank check for doing whatever he wants and he can play the “God’s anointed” card anytime someone wants to question his decisions. Baloney.
April 15th, 2008 at 8:22 am
Well ’scrupe, it’s like this…most people by (fallen) nature respond and are more attracted to that which is negative and critical — especially when it’s in others.
Toward ourselves, on the other hand, most of us are abundantly forgiving, and fairly bend over backwards to defend, justify, explain, excuse, and wink at our own failures and shortcomings.
But just let someone else blow it…and the sharks move in for the kill.
We humans thrive on that which is “bad.” On drama. On scandal. On sin. On failure.
If you don’t believe me, just add up the number of hits that the negative-type threads get, while positive, well-intentioned threads, like your excellent post on “Christ And Him Crucified” from a while back, for example, got what…8 replies?
I’ve been similarly frustrated: a while back, I also attempted — quite futilely as it turns out — to brighten things up a bit here with stuff on John’s Gospel, the Deity of Jesus, prayer, hymns, devotional thoughts, etc.
Practically no interest at all by the regulars here. Coupla hits here and there.
What a waste of time that was.
So, I did some experimenting and started posting negative, critical stuff. Put up a post on the tawdry theme of “Obama And Same Sex Unions”…and what happens? It scored over 100 replies.
Paul recognized, in principle I think, the danger regarding this habit of dwelling on the negative, carnal things of this world, when He admonished the believers at Philippi:
From my own personal experience, and also from observation in others, the habit of seeing things negatively eventually turns from outward observation to something that begins to grow within, inexorably, like a cancer, and which ends up becoming a very harsh taskmaster.
All of which is why I don’t come around here much anymore. I guess Tom S. was right, after all.
-joe
April 15th, 2008 at 8:26 am
FICM. I agree there is quite a bit of theological inbreeding going on up there. Perhaps one could call it philosophy inbreeding, but at any rate that could explain the rumor floating around that the east campus is going to be re-named “Yearning For Zion”.
April 15th, 2008 at 8:28 am
Your observations and sentiment are without a doubt valid, FICM and “stacking the deck” isn’t exclusive to Frank and CBC. My heart just goes out to Trent and his wife and I don’t want to see them caught in the crossfire.
He may prove to be a David.
April 15th, 2008 at 11:43 am
Well said! I’m tired of the don’t judge God’s anointed argument. I mean really? If Christians don’t call out leaders acting in dishonest, corrupt, and sinful ways then you might as well join the Mormon/FDLS group and live in a cult compound in the middle of Texas. It’s our job to question authority. Anyone who says otherwise has only been brainwashed into believing that “good” Christians do what their told. Again, baloney.
Great points Joe….controversy creates interest. Sex, drugs, and rock and roll sells. Period. It’s way beyond this blog and cynical Christians, it’s a human condition ramped in our world. Look at movies for example…anything that is sappy, lovey dovey with a happy ending (a la ‘Must Love Dogs’ or ‘Serendipity’) makes only a few million at the box office. Violent gagster movies with guns, drugs, and sex (a la ‘American Gangster’ or ‘Training Day’) make over $100 million easy. I just heard a stat on the news that any magazine with Britney Spears on the cover will sell on average 30% more copies then those with other celebrities. Why? Cause our society is obsessed with the negative.
Your right. Same with Judah Smith…everyone loves bashing him too. It’s ok though, they take it as a badge of honor. Secretly they like it cause it puts their name out there. People who like the spotlight don’t care if its good press or bad press, as long as it’s press. Comes with the territory of aligning yourself with an organization that people don’t like. Both of those men could leave their position at anytime and get tons of respect for taking a stand against what most of us bloggers believe to be a corrupt system of church. But they prefer the image of success that the small community they are in gives them based on their position. So hey, I say deal with it. Asim and Judah are good dudes, I think they will manage just fine.
April 15th, 2008 at 11:50 am
Umm, those movies sucked. Really sucked. That’s probably why they only made a few million.
April 16th, 2008 at 12:20 pm
dont forget…. BS, FD, WS, KM… they were all elders at BT in their 20s
April 16th, 2008 at 2:26 pm
I’m almost certain BS was well into his 30s when he got the invite, and I’m pretty sure WS was at least 30, as well.
I do remember FD was 28 my first year at PBC — 1976 — when he was still just a lowly deacon/homeleader, and I don’t think he made the Eldership for at least 3 or 4 years, which would have made him older than 30. He once told me he had to ask KRI to make him one because he was embarrassed at the questions he would get while out preaching/teaching at LCs as to why he was still only a homeleader. So DI made him an elder shortly after that request.
I seem to remember hearing talk back then that RJ and KM were the youngest elders up till that time, and so they may have indeed made it when they were still in their late 20s.
Maybe David M. can remember exactly when.
Dave?
-joebib
April 16th, 2008 at 2:38 pm
All I know is that FD is 3 years older than I am, and I am now 55. I remember that I took FD’s place teaching at PBC in 1980, which is around the time he left Portland to plant a church in Eugene, Oregon. He had to be an elder before he left.
April 16th, 2008 at 10:25 pm
I think Asim doesnt have much experience other than the dome experience. CBC is really becoming more and more like a corporate organization rather than a body of believers. I would hate to see a church torn down by wrong attitudes. When I first came, thing were very different than today.
This maybe far-fetched but has anyone considered writing a letter to Dick Iverson discussing concerns. I don’t know if that would accomplish anything…
April 17th, 2008 at 12:06 pm
Nina, remember how strong the authority doctrine is. Once they have declared the someone is anointed and appointed by God, then it’s “don’t touch the Lord’s anointed.” So it follows that any changes must be by God Himself.
As much as I have always respected Bro. Dick, he is in a trap of his own making. For it was he who built that doctrine into the foundation of BT. It has served FD well. At this point, it would take a mutiny by his “yes-men” to effect any changes. And the chances of that happening are, well, a snowball’s chance in …
April 17th, 2008 at 8:15 pm
I thought it may not hurt to try, because at least we tried to do the right thing and cover our side. It would be better if a letter was sent and they ignored it…rather than not sending at all and assuming the worst. All I’m saying it, why not try it? What can they do, send the ‘offender’ to jail?
April 18th, 2008 at 8:57 am
Writing letters, arraigning meetings, having heart to hearts….you obviously have not been through he ringer yet. Ah I remember those young days when I thought “they will listen to me, all I have to do is voice my concerns…” boy was I wrong!
We are talking about power hungry, mind controlling, legalists who think it’s their way or the highway. These are they kind of people who got your back when you got something they want, namely money and success/position. But you screw up, question their authority, or do something counter-CBC culture and they write you off quicker then a mouse out of a fox hole. There’s no dialogue or reasoning with these people. But hey, if it eases your conscience I say write some letters, try to set up some meetings, voice your concerns with the leadership all you want. It’s a good learning experience. You will quickly discover just how terrible these people really are.
And no…I am not bitter…well maybe just a little.
April 18th, 2008 at 2:31 pm
since when is doug lasit not brown?